Drag

I wanted to refurbish a 69 Mustang into my dream car. Without power it isn't complete. If anyone wouldn't mind taking the time i have a 351 block from a marine engine. Does a marine engine block differ or can i use parts made for the automotive block on it? and i want to have around 500 hp at the flywheel. any suggestions to get it there and price estimates? And wehre is a good place to buy? thanks

Stevo,

351W or 351C?

There should be no appreciable difference between an automotive and marine block.

Rotating "kits" are available to make it up to 412 CID. Only use a FORGED crank. If the "ad" doesn't SAY "forged", it's not. A common miscopnceptioin is that "steel" cranks are all forged. The aftermarket "preys" on this, selling CAST steel cranks, just using the word "steel".

If a W engine, Dart Pro-1 is an excellent head. The old AFR stuff is pretty popular yet, as well. If a C, all bets are "off". A few companies sell a good Cleveland head. For "out of the box", Edelbrock is probably the best choice.

Solid roller cams are the "ticket" today. Comp has an excellent "line" of street/race rollers for the Fords.

I can do better once I know whether you're working with the C or the W.

Jim

351W im pretty sure. was in a 1987 fish natique. good engine block im pretty sure. the only problem was the oil pan gasket gave after being put in new after just a couple runs. can you try a price estimate plz thanks again!

Jim,

What I meant by price estimate was price range. I have no idea how much performance engine building can cost. And I realize the engine is only as good as it's weakest part. I am still working on restoring the classic muscle car to put it in. And I understand I will need a different bell housing and a good matching transmission. When I was looking at prices I can see I can easily spend 6,000 which is quite a bit. The problem is i'm trying to figure out what parts will get me to 500 horses and I would like to fit a nitrous system on if you think that is a good idea for the type of engine. And it needs to be able to be a driver too. Manual of course.

Thanks, Stevo

. And it needs to be able to be a driver too. Manual of course.

Hi,
Is this your first project?
Respectfully, you might want to set your sites a bit more realistically in terms of hp. A 500 hp engine will not be too pleasant to drive. Inevitably, to get that kind of power, you will have to biuld an engine that will rev pretty high. You will not get the 500 hp below say, 5000 - 6000 rpm or so.

There will be little power down low, less than a stock engine, perhaps.. The engine will not idle well at all. The entire thing will be miserable to drive, especially in heavy traffic, because it will be rough, noisy, difficult to start off, unless you rev the engine up a bit. You will need a pretty heavy clutch. The car will not accelerate well until you rev it up.

IMO you will get a much nicer driving experience by building an engine to maximize torque in a useful driving range. Look to build peak torque in the 3500-4500 rpm range, where the engine will be revving most of the time. This will still biuld peak hp at a usable 5000 rpm, but give you a nice low-end and mid-range thrust right where you need it.
Yes, it may not build 500 peak hp but its far nicer and more impressive to drive...... (and you can still tell people it's 500 hp :))

Consider the transmission, too. If you do go for 500 hp, you may need a very strong 6 speed trans with short rear-end gears so you can keep the engine revs high as you shift from one gear to the next. But such tramsissions are very expensive. http://www.richmondgear.com/01transmissions.html

If you go for an old-school Ford top-loader 4 spd you will definitly want to build more mid-range power, at the expense of high-rev peak power, especially if you set-up the rear gears for comfortable highway use.

Also, note, most other, commonly available 4 and 5 speed Ford transmissions will not cope with a strong 351.

Finally, consider the Mustang chassis. I like Mustangs as much as the next guy but they are pretty limited for 500 hp without chassis and rear suspension mods. Without them, power will be mostly unusable.
I know that, back in 1969, Ford, and others published some pretty wild hp numbers for their cars. These numbers were inaccurate for a number of reasons. You would take a full 30% off the hp numbers of the day to get a realistic number.
So the 375 advertised hp 428 engine in a Mustang probably developed more like 275-300 real hp. But it built tremendous mid-range torque, which is what made it such fun to drive.

When it comes to the small block at that level, Magic Rat is right on "point". A 500 HP 351 is going be fidgity, snorty and downright UNFUN at low speed. "Stiff" rear gears will take care of that in some ways. Adding the cubes by stroking will help some, too. We sent a 500 HP 383 Chevy to some guys in Holland for a Cobra "kit car". It took them almost 2 years driving it before they were really "comfortable" in traffic. It IS a BEAST, though...

I agree, maybe a little more "tame" build would be more appropriate (how I HATE that word, but it's necessary sometimes). If you're intending to "spray" it with nitrous anyway, I would build something in the 350-375 HP range and put the 250 "hit" on it. Just be sure the machinist knows you plan on nitrous.

The "big" engines popular today, make 500 HP in a very docile configuration, and relatively low engine speed. This is why you read and hear more and more about such animals. The Windsor is a great engine, tough as nails, but still, under 400 CID...

Jim

Well guys this is why I ask questions. Thanks for all the inputs and you have given me a better idea as to what I should aim for. The only thing I wanted out of such Hp was hopefully being able to do 0-60 in under 5 seconds and the 1/4 mile in something like low 13's high 12's. How hard is that? I am not sure how much Hp would do this and the mechanic is me with a friend of mine that knows what he is doing, except he builds for reliability, not power. The reason I threw in the nitrous is that it looks cool and I thought relatively inexpensive. But than again your engine has to be set up for it. And I honestly do not have 10,000 grand if that's what it costs just for the engine, remember the car needs to be restored too. It's going to be a show car so I want to have the engine look good, but thats another story. Thanks for all input.

Stevo

For anyone else that comes across this post why don't you put down your favorite engine rebuildin tips, thanks.

Stevo,

400 HP is plenty to get a 3,400 lb. Mustang into the 12s. I would say an engine in the $5K range would be realistic. You don't need all the latest gizmos or even aluminum heads to get you "there". Mildly ported E7s (Mustang GT 5.0 stuff from the late '80s) are very good heads. A 383 "stroker" kit and a nice solid cam, and VIOLA!! "Instant 12 second car"...

IMO, avoid the "5.0 internet crowd" (for advice), as they tend to go for "buzz words" and what's "popular", not necessarily what WORKS. The engine you're speaking of is an "old school" engine and a a certain amount of that is necessary to get it "right".

Jim

Helpfull advice, I'll work on it. Will rake me awhile but it's fun. Thanks again,

stevo