Tubular manifold

Here's one on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mitsubishi-Eclipse-Header-Turbo-exhaust-manifold-dsm-1G_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem20ae8d969eQQitemZ140 367468190QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAcces sories

Thoughts? anyone else think the welds look kinda shitty? Just don't want to waste money

As I hear all the time, the cheap ones will crack and break. Hard to see close up, but ya those welds don't look that great. I would shell out a little more money for a manifold. Or buy like 3 of those for if/when it does crack.

I like the way a tubular one looks but there's no point in throwing money away for one that's not going to last. Just looking for now anyway.

My roomate got a cheap one off ebay and hasn't had any issues with it. Has been on for probably a yr and a half

So it's hit or miss I guess. I don't really run the piss out of the car...all the time, so I wonder if that would help make it last? Can you find out which seller he bought it from?

Yes it is hit and miss. And from my experience.....it was miss.
Honestly, you arent gaining anything from one...expecially a knock off. From what I understand, stock DSM manifolds flow very well, and it should be a while before you need an upgrade. Honestly the only full tubular manifold I would run is a DNP, but they aren't cheap. But if it was me, I would probably just throw on a FP manifold. I have an SBR cast iron manifold based off the EVO 3. And of course my car will never need anything more than that....it just may not be visually appealing to some people's standards...being cast and all.

Lol, speaking of manifolds, my buddy just got some OBX stainless headers off Ebay for his 07 SS tailblazer. They are purty and all and I'm sure he won't have any trouble with them (non turbo headers are alot more forgiving), it just trips me out that he put OBX headers on a $40,000 truck.

Lol, speaking of manifolds, my buddy just got some OBX stainless headers off Ebay for his 07 SS tailblazer. They are purty and all and I'm sure he won't have any trouble with them (non turbo headers are alot more forgiving), it just trips me out that he put OBX headers on a $40,000 truck.

That's funny. I hope they fit better than mine did. Or better than Jason's for that matter. Pound that shit!

The collector, from what I can see in the pic, looks like a bunch of drunk welds got together and made a shitty weld-blob in the most critical portion of the manifold!

FP Race, 2g ported...or step it up to a 1k Shearer Mani. Depending on your power goals, either of the first two should suffice.

I already have a 2G mani, I'm pretty sure he ported it too so I guess that's my best beat is to stick w/ what I have. I was more or less looking for a better look is all, but not at a sacrifice.

Here's the one I just bought.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-99-MITSUBISHI-ECLIPSE-NEON-T3-TURBO-MANIFOLD-420A_W0QQitemZ110486278389QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b97ed0f5

Love tubular also, but love cast iron. It's simple and will last.

Here's the one I just bought.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-99-MITSUBISHI-ECLIPSE-NEON-T3-TURBO-MANIFOLD-420A_W0QQitemZ110486278389QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item19b97ed0f5

Love tubular also, but love cast iron. It's simple and will last.

Cavalier - This thread is about the 4g63 manifold. Not the 420a, please be careful when posting replies that your talking about the same car they are. I know it can get confusing around here will the 2 different motors.

+1^

Hope you bought the right one.

Cavalier - This thread is about the 4g63 manifold. Not the 420a, please be careful when posting replies that your talking about the same car they are. I know it can get confusing around here will the 2 different motors.
Was just showing what I got. Like I do to friends in person. Just showing something IM proud to finally get. First manafold. Sorry.

He wasn't saying that to be a di*k, he was reminding you of the differences so you wouldn't buy the one in my original link because it wouldn't fit your car.

Yea I wasnt being a dick. We try to keep these thread on topic, if you want to show off the parts you bought that is fine. We all like to do it but do so in the Project section. I dont want people looking at this thread in the future and think that manifold will fit their car because they aren't paying attention to what motors fit what.

Naw it's all good. K back to topic. Does the tubular have better air flow so to speak then the cast iron?

That's ideally the purpose. Smooth insides, wide runners... should all ideally help with flow. A perfect tubular has perfectly equal runners. Most "regular" ones do not though. A very poorly built one would typically have uneven runners and actually end up costing power over making it.

Do the runners have to be the same so the flow stays even as each cylinder fires? Otherwise exhaust gas will cause turbulence when it runs into each other at the end of the runners?

It depends on what cast manifold your talking about. The stock turbo manifold is cast but has a runner design compared to the log type that you will be using. Yea the tubular have a much better flow design, tubular manifolds actually allow the gas to flow into the turbo, where as the log manifold rely on pressure to flow the gas into the turbo. Now I have read before that there is not much difference in performace between the log manifolds and the tubulars untill you pushing some power.

Spool characteristics also play a huge part into the design of manifolds but Im not going to get into all of that.

Do the runners have to be the same so the flow stays even as each cylinder fires? Otherwise exhaust gas will cause turbulence when it runs into each other at the end of the runners?

Something like that. Uneven runners can actually cause better hp due to exhaust gas escaping quicker. There's lots of R&D about it.

Some good reading:

http://rusubaru.com/equal-length-vs-unequal-length-headers/
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-motors/72306-equal-length-headers-myth-truth.html
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/520369-turbo-lag-short-v-equal-length-headers-5.html

Actually manifolds are made equal length so that you can utilized the exhaust gas pulses to help spool the turbo. Each cylinder fires 180* (of the crank) apart so if you have a true equal length manifold then these pulses will each hit the turbo at separete times which will help spool up the turbo, if they all if the turbo at once then they start to cancel out and you will lose the benefit of these pulses. Now if you really want to go all out on a manifold you can time these pulses and build an unequal length manifold that still utilizes the pulses and have them reaching the turbo 180* apart. With this setup you can have a smaller manifold but still reap benefits of an equal length. Of course this will require lots of work and calculations to figure out, which equals lots of money that most of us do not want to spend on a manifold. Im not sure on how much these pulses will help spool but it may be 100-200 rpms or so. Not worth it for the majority of us tuners. There are also a lot of other things that come into play when building a manifold, the diameter of the pipe will have an effect on exhaust gas velocity which will change how your manifold performs.

This is all true. but there is one key thing missing.

Im designing the manifold for my schools race car
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Colorado-State-Formula-SAE/184988848847?ref=ts (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#%21/pages/Colorado-State-Formula-SAE/184988848847?ref=ts)

This is a pretty basic explanation cuz Im no expert and becasue there are lots of variables, and harmonics is always a really complicated subject not to mention getting your intake and exhaust manifold to work together. The reason tubular manifolds work is really all about harmonics. I wont go into the details but basically as an exhaust port opens it emits a sound wave that as it travels down the tube pulls exhaust gas out of the chamber (scaveging). Once it hits a wall (change in diameter otherwise known as collector/turbo) it comes back and pushing, helping to keep air in the chamber, so long as the tube is the right length to match the harmonics of the wave. Now the trick is to figure out what length of tube matches your exhaust pulse wave. If they aren't close you will cancel the wave and you wont gain any benefits. The longer the tubes the more power usually, hence the reason drag racers run their turbos way down in the bumper. They are probably tuned for the first harmonic of that wave. for a turbo application the scaveging helps spool the turbo becasue you are pulling more exhaust out of the cylinders faster.

The reason to use equal length headers is mainly to simplify the problem. You know firing happens every180* like stated earlier so you KNOW they will be hitting the turbo at different times and that they will be working for the individual port. Making uneven length headers does take a lot of calculations to get it right.

Anyone with more expertise feel free to jump in and learn me.

So buying one off ebay is up to you, it could or could not be equal length and its probably not the best put together or the smoothest, but it will probably work, especially if your not trying to make gobs of power.

Good topic. Cause before reading this I thought the turbo manafold was basicly made to just bolt the turbo to and do the same job the stock did. These manafolds have alot to do with HP as well. Cool.

I take it you are studying mech engineering building a formula SAE car. We have been trying to find funding from our school to start back the formula SAE competition. Those cad drawing look pretty good.