$12000, need car for chicago winters

hey guys, first post. I'm looking to buy a first car. I need a car that can deal with Chicago winters, has 4wd, can carry one golf bag, preferably two, and is something sporty. Budget is 12 grand. Thanks!

Is gas mileage much of a concern?

for the 17-20mpg range, Jeep Grand Cherokee

20-27 BMW 3 or 5-series

thanks. Gas mileage isn't a big deal, but i'd like something sporty, e.g. not a suv. And what year bmw 3 or 5 would i be looking like? Thanks

probably a 2000-2003

any ideas for something a little sportier?

Look for a 2002+ Subaru WRX. Fast, AWD, reliable, fairly easy on gas. I would recommend an Audi A4, but for $12K you're potentially looking at having a very expensive car to maintain, as with any other premium brand.

Subaru also has the Legacy GT (2002-2004) that will come in under your price range and offer decent performance, and have lots of room for your golf gear. If you can find a 2005+ GT for that price you're getting 250 horsepower, but they are typically more expensive.

Happy hunting!

great thanks!

well theres the BMW 330 or the 328 :D lol

I'm not a fan of Subaru myself :P

All the above would be fairly expensive to maintain though.

Dude, Subaru's will blow the pants off a Bimmer for a fraction of the cost AND they won't be sliding around the snow because they aren't stuck spinning the back tires, all Subaru's have Symmetrical AWD systems. In 2002, a 227-hp Subaru Impreza WRX did 0-60mph in 4.9 seconds - that's 0.3 seconds slower than a brand-new 400-hp Camaro SS with 6-speed manual. Plus it averaged 25mpg. It's honestly the performance bargain of the Century! The new 2010 WRX STI will do 60 in just over 4 seconds, which is borderline supercar territory.

what about handling though? That is equally if not more important to me.

Dude, Subaru's will blow the pants off a Bimmer for a fraction of the cost AND they won't be sliding around the snow because they aren't stuck spinning the back tires, all Subaru's have Symmetrical AWD systems. In 2002, a 227-hp Subaru Impreza WRX did 0-60mph in 4.9 seconds - that's 0.3 seconds slower than a brand-new 400-hp Camaro SS with 6-speed manual. Plus it averaged 25mpg. It's honestly the performance bargain of the Century! The new 2010 WRX STI will do 60 in just over 4 seconds, which is borderline supercar territory.

LOL at your completely unrealistic #'s

the 305HP Impreza STI did 0-60 in 5.2 (still impresive but you full of crap)

1/4 mile in 13.4 @ 100.4mph (which is, to be honest, pitiful, for a car with 305HP)

BMW's come with AWD as an option in their cars........ almost didn't fail in that point.

And :lol: at you thinking a 3,200lb car with 230HP can do 0-60 in under 5 seconds.

0-60 on the 2002's was 5.6 sec

1/4 mile was 14.44 @ 93.41mph

Though they are a good value, not as reliable nor as comfortable as a BMW though....... Not to mention more expensive to insure and to repair....

EDIT:
source: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/112_0403_2002_subaru_impreza/specs_overview.html

Sorry, that was 5.9 (or better) sec, not 4.9 seconds 0-60. But you seriously need to get over recommending BMW's to everyone for everything - you have the same answer for everyone on this forum. This guy wants to spend $12K!!! You're talking about expensive German luxury sedans! And BMW only started offering AWD more recently (to copy Audi) and is not available on oldler, sub-$12K cars. Oh, and for your reference, a 2009 BMW 535xi hits 60 mph in 5.7 seconds, about the same as a 7-year-old Subaru WRX, but it costs $55,000! The Subie is easily had in good condition for under $12K.

A note to the OP regarding handling, the Subie handles brilliantly - look up just about any review online. It's said to be neutral and balanced, and you can correct mid-corner with the throttle. The only thing you might find frustrating is the turbo lag. If you don't like to rev up the motor, or haven't owned a turbo before, it can seem like the car is gutless until you it 3000 RPM when it kicks you in the back.

You'll like this one, Puker, where CarandDriver puts up a WRX against a pair of German sedans costing twice the price. I gotta spoil it for ya, the BMW comes last, and its the AWD 330xi.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/01q4/bmw_330xi_vs._subaru_impreza_wrx_audi_s4-comparison_tests/subaru_impreza_wrx_page_4

And where are you getting this idea that BMW's are cheap to repair!? They are fully double what most cars are! You are just spitting out garbage about BMW's - are they paying you for all this propaganda?

Have a look at the *facts*

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2005/06/20/consumer-update-owning-a-car-isnt-cheap.htm

And where are you getting this idea that BMW's are cheap to repair!? They are fully double what most cars are! You are just spitting out garbage about BMW's - are they paying you for all this propaganda?

Have a look at the *facts*

http://www.canadiandriver.com/2005/06/20/consumer-update-owning-a-car-isnt-cheap.htm

I never said BMW's are cheap to repair, in fact I've said about 5 times in the last 36hours that their very expensive to repair..... but guess what else is expensive to repair? Subarus.........

Sorry, that was 5.9 (or better) sec, not 4.9 seconds 0-60. But you seriously need to get over recommending BMW's to everyone for everything - you have the same answer for everyone on this forum. This guy wants to spend $12K!!! You're talking about expensive German luxury sedans! And BMW only started offering AWD more recently (to copy Audi) and is not available on oldler, sub-$12K cars. Oh, and for your reference, a 2009 BMW 535xi hits 60 mph in 5.7 seconds, about the same as a 7-year-old Subaru WRX, but it costs $55,000! The Subie is easily had in good condition for under $12K.

A note to the OP regarding handling, the Subie handles brilliantly - look up just about any review online. It's said to be neutral and balanced, and you can correct mid-corner with the throttle. The only thing you might find frustrating is the turbo lag. If you don't like to rev up the motor, or haven't owned a turbo before, it can seem like the car is gutless until you it 3000 RPM when it kicks you in the back.

You'll like this one, Puker, where CarandDriver puts up a WRX against a pair of German sedans costing twice the price. I gotta spoil it for ya, the BMW comes last, and its the AWD 330xi.

You seriouslly need to calm down. I know your mr. anti BMW but their good cars

And if you insist on me suggesting something other than a Bimmer I'd say either an Eagle Talon or a early 2000's Benz with AWD

ohh and http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=271540720&dealer_id=57609865&car_year=2003&rdm=1260418792643&lastStartYear=1981&num_records=100&systime=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=All%20wheel%20drive&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=100000&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=80118&advanced=y&end_year=2008&doors=&transmission=&max_price=12000&cardist=1556&standard=false

and

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/research.jsp?superTrim=&makeid=5&logtype=7&mode=&destURL=optionsAndExtras.jsp&year=2003&acode=USB30BMC142A0&modelid=31&section=optionsAndExtras&myid=4575&section=optionsAndExtras&mode=&aff=national

so yea, they did.... (the 525 didn't till later though) and if that doesn't have enough power theres the 330xi.....

Look, I'm not anti-BMW, but they fit a very specific clientele. If you are a business person that can afford a new one, they are incredible cars to drive. If you can work on it yourself and want to tune it up or just enjoy a sporty older car, an older 3-series is a great buy. But for people trying to save money and keep costs down, especially if they are going to have it serviced at a garage, a BMW is not the answer. Unless you can afford to spend $20K you won't get into a BMW that doesn't need expensive, regular maintenance, and I would hate to lure someone into buy a car that they enjoyed to drive but put compromised their lifestyle with unexpected bills...it just isn't worth it for a car.

If you don't have the Benjamins, there are lots of other cars that do what a BMW does but for less. If you are in the position to buy a new(er) BMW, you've done well, and the car is a worthwhile reward.

Look for a 2002+ Subaru WRX. Fast, AWD, reliable, fairly easy on gas. I would recommend an Audi A4, but for $12K you're potentially looking at having a very expensive car to maintain, as with any other premium brand.

Subaru also has the Legacy GT (2002-2004) that will come in under your price range and offer decent performance, and have lots of room for your golf gear. If you can find a 2005+ GT for that price you're getting 250 horsepower, but they are typically more expensive.

Happy hunting!

Not all the 2002 Subaru are reliable. I know someone who bought a used 2002 Impreza, and the engine starting making a very lound metallic noise after 30K miles of driving. She goes to Subaru, and had the engine repaired. It was the piston pins that were damaged. After 40K miles of driving, the problem come back again. Dealer didn't accept to repair it for free, cause it's out of warranty.

And the driver was a woman, not a racer that rev up all the time. A car specialist told her that Subaru 2.5L boxter engine was misdesigned. But the problem was resolved with 2004 and more.

http://www.sweethaven02.com/Automotive01/fig0329.gif

About the BMW 328xi, it's a very good choice. But AWD BMW are very expensive, more than the regular 323i. I don't know if you can find under 12K.

Not all the 2002 Subaru are reliable. I know someone who bought a used 2002 Impreza,

This is all you needed to say - you can't base a car's reliability solely on one persons used car experience. Who knows what the person before her used the car for! And because Impreza's have a lot of potential for performance, they are popular with younger, aggressive drivers and you have to look hard for one that has been taken care of. Overall, most professional review sites agree that a Subaru is a well-built, dependable car, not to mention topping the safety charts for at least the last 3-4 years.

This is all you needed to say - you can't base a car's reliability solely on one persons used car experience. Who knows what the person before her used the car for! And because Impreza's have a lot of potential for performance, they are popular with younger, aggressive drivers and you have to look hard for one that has been taken care of. Overall, most professional review sites agree that a Subaru is a well-built, dependable car, not to mention topping the safety charts for at least the last 3-4 years.

The woman I am talking about had 32 years old when it happens and she drive slowly as a grandma. The problem happens twice and she did all the maintenance to keep to make the car last (oil change, trans fluid change, anti-rust...).

She bought the car in a certified dealership and had the car fully inspected before buying.

As I already mentioned, a car specialist told there was a complaint for the Subaru 2001-2003 with 2.5L engine. A bad design with the piston pin and rod bushing. Piston rotates on its pin and make this metallic sound after ~40K miles. This issue was corrected in 2004. They use bigger pistons in height.


I forget to mention that Outback is not reliable too. There's problem with fuel delivery system. Engine misses at highway speed. My father wanted to buy one, but too many complaints on these cars.

I like this site for owner-written car reviews. www.carsurvey.org.

Sure, one bad experience does not make for a bad car, - and some owners are extremely biased - but when you get the same problems popping up in many reviews, then you know the problems are legitimate.

Ok, but I don't like Impreza pistons.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/892/pistons3.jpg

They are too small, not like the one in post #16. By the time, they get worn, rotate and make noise. They're not enough big too support the torque of the connecting rod.

Ok, but I don't like Impreza pistons.

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/892/pistons3.jpg

They are too small, not like the one in post #16. By the time, they get worn, rotate and make noise. They're not enough big too support the torque of the connecting rod.

Since when does an Impreza have torque :lol: