odd question on starting

My 91 corolla isn't starting properly. It keeps acting somewhat like its the alternator because when I started it leaving from work a few nights ago, it started as if it was slightly dead but it started. The next morning it wouldn't start at all. I checked making sure the lights were off and they were. I tried cleaning the terminals too. I finally jumped it and it started to turn over, then stopped and made a clicking noise and then started. It ran fine after that. So I drove it around thinking prehaps the battery was dead. I got home and tried to start it again and it still starts sluggishly. The battery is only a couple of years old. Is there not a switch or fuse that is involved with starting? I wanted to test that along with my battery and everything. Where is this fuse or switch?

The first thing to check is the condition of the battery cables and their connection. Make sure the cables are clean and tight. Also make sure the cable connector ends are molded on the the cables and not the temporary type that clamp over the exposed copper cable and clamp the cable with a couple of bolts. These are prone to allowing the copper to corrode and cause bad connections.

Assuming your cables and connections are good, it sounds like you have a weak battery. If you have a multimeter you can test the condition of the battery and alternator. With the engine off and the car having been sitting for 15 minutes or more, the battery should hold at least 11.8 volts DC (battery). When trying to start the car the voltage should not drop below 9.5 volts DC (battery or starter load). Once started the battery voltage should be at least 13.8 volts DC (alternator).

If you find the battery is bad, take it back to where you bought it, preferably with the receipt in hand and have them test it. If it tests weak or borderline, have them replace it under warranty. Some places offer an 18-month free exchange, but at a minimum it should be pro-rated so you won't be paying the full price for a replacement battery.

-Rod

The first thing to check is the condition of the battery cables and their connection. Make sure the cables are clean and tight. Also make sure the cable connector ends are molded on the the cables and not the temporary type that clamp over the exposed copper cable and clamp the cable with a couple of bolts. These are prone to allowing the copper to corrode and cause bad connections.

Assuming your cables and connections are good, it sounds like you have a weak battery. If you have a multimeter you can test the condition of the battery and alternator. With the engine off and the car having been sitting for 15 minutes or more, the battery should hold at least 11.8 volts DC (battery). When trying to start the car the voltage should not drop below 9.5 volts DC (battery or starter load). Once started the battery voltage should be at least 13.8 volts DC (alternator).

If you find the battery is bad, take it back to where you bought it, preferably with the receipt in hand and have them test it. If it tests weak or borderline, have them replace it under warranty. Some places offer an 18-month free exchange, but at a minimum it should be pro-rated so you won't be paying the full price for a replacement battery.

-Rod


I tested the battery and it was good using the multimeter. I also switched out the battery with a battery from another car. Again, it still won't start and I made sure the second battery was good cause I started the car it was in. So now I can rule out the battery. Can you test the alternator from the battery? I'm used to seeing a red cable going to the alternator but mine has a plug that has a X shaped mark in it with a black wire. Another black wire is held on by a small nut on the outside of the alternator. I tried touching the negative multimeter lead to the negative battery terminal and the positive to the inside of the plug on the alternator and that nut holding another wire on and found only small readings. I may not be touching it to the right thing. On the starter I know you can touch the postive to the nut covered by the red cap and negative to negative on battery and get the same reading as you would with both leads on the battery. What am I doing wrong? Is there another way to test the alternator? The starter is so much easier to test lol. A battery+jumper cables=solenoid action with the starter out of the car. Test over.

Once the engine is running you can test the charging system using you multimeter at the battery. You should get readings such as described in paragraph 2 of post #2 above. If the alternator is charging and the power is making it to the battery, you should have readings at the battery of 13.8Vdc or higher.

Does your car have OEM style battery cables with either no exposed copper or a nice solid crimp at the terminal end (common on imports and newer domestics)? When the vehicle "clicks" when trying to start is it a single click or a rapid series of clicks? A rapid series of clicks would still indicate a low voltage condition in the system.

-Rod

Once the engine is running you can test the charging system using you multimeter at the battery. You should get readings such as described in paragraph 2 of post #2 above. If the alternator is charging and the power is making it to the battery, you should have readings at the battery of 13.8Vdc or higher.

Does your car have OEM style battery cables with either no exposed copper or a nice solid crimp at the terminal end (common on imports and newer domestics)? When the vehicle "clicks" when trying to start is it a single click or a rapid series of clicks? A rapid series of clicks would still indicate a low voltage condition in the system.

-Rod



The negative battery cable is the same one thats been on as long as I have had the car. The postive was replaced many years ago and the end at the battery terminal was replaced yet again with only the terminil piece with the two small bolts and nuts. They are both tightened down tightly. Its a top post battery if that helps. It was a series of clicks. Prehaps I should test the voltage to the starter.Once started, the car stays running, so that would lead me to believe the alternator is fine. Since it is simply starting that is the problem then I'm assuming there is a short in the positive cable.

Starter solenoids on those year Toyos were famous for failing, could be here.

Starter solenoids on those year Toyos were famous for failing, could be here.

No its just the new starter that has had trouble. The first one ran fine for the 170000 miles it was on. Replacement parts are never as good as the original.

Once the engine is running you can test the charging system using you multimeter at the battery. You should get readings such as described in paragraph 2 of post #2 above. If the alternator is charging and the power is making it to the battery, you should have readings at the battery of 13.8Vdc or higher.

Does your car have OEM style battery cables with either no exposed copper or a nice solid crimp at the terminal end (common on imports and newer domestics)? When the vehicle "clicks" when trying to start is it a single click or a rapid series of clicks? A rapid series of clicks would still indicate a low voltage condition in the system.

-Rod

The car wont start at all now. Not even by jumping it. The battery reads 11.6 and the alternator and starter tested the same. There is barely enough juice in the system for the dash lights to come on and they are extremely dim and th horn sounds dead too. Why can't I jump it now? Is there a relay or switch I can test or is 11.6 too low? Would this be from the battery? If the terminals were corroded would the alternator and starter still read the same as the battery but still fail to start?

11.6 volts is pretty well dead.

Without reading the rest of the thread to see if its already been said:

Once you get the battery charged, try to start the car with the dome light on. If the light dims, your starter is trying to engage. If it doesn't, there is something wrong before the starter (relay, wires, solenoids, etc.).