Zap-A-Gap for resin kits

Hi guys

I've tried searching google and this forum for this but haven't really found anything concrete.

I'm expecting to receive my first 'resin' kit in a few weeks and I am buying the additional tools that I will need.

I've read up on some good articles about resin preparation, such making sure I clean the mold releasing agent etc... and how you can't use certain glues and it needs to be CA based (superglue).

A lot of people seem to recommend "Zap-A-Gap"

http://www.lakelandflytying.com/images/zap_a_gap.jpg

Here are some questions I have:

1. Zap-A-Gap is a CA glue right? but it can also be used to cover gaps such as deep scratches/small pits? - does this mean once its cured I just simply sand down the excess? On my tamiya kits I've always used Tamiya putty for this kind of thing... can I still use Tamiya Putty on a resin model....or should I just use CA?

2. Super glue / CA has a really really fast curing time and this worries me. I normally like to pour a drop of poly cement glue on some scrap card and then with a toothpick apply the glue lightly on my model parts. This has worked very well for me, I rarely ever get glue on unwanted places by using this method.

Aren't super glues / CA more like liquid compared to poly cemement in a tube, I can't see myself using the same method of a toothpick for CA. Not only would the glue soak straight through the card but it would probably cure by the time I got it on the toothpick? From the images of the bottle I really don't see a brush attached to the cap. Whats the best method to apply it 'cleanly'.

3. Finally, Zap-A-Gap also comes in 'extra thin' versions, again these seem appealing but the curing team is even faster, I think I would definetley need a brush for this... is the 'extra thin' version worth a shot too?


I'm normally practice on spare body parts to find out what works and what doesn't, but since this is a resin kit (a lot of $$$) I really don't want to mess it up and so I would appreciate any advice from those who have experienced CA glues with Resin kits.

Thanks! :)

It's perfect for resin & plastic. Yes, it's liquid, but thickness is in between liquid cement and the old tube glues, kind of like syrup. I generally have a mixing card with the Zap a Gap (yes, it's CA), and use toothpicks/craft sticks to apply the glue. I apply the glue to the surface that another part is going to mate, then apply that part. It dries reasonably quick, but I always use an accelerator...once it's in place & I hit w/a drip of accelerator, the part is set. I hate waiting. I quit using old tube glues years ago. Waaaaay too slow for me. I test fit a part to make sure it fits before applying CA glue.

You can use a drop of this stuff to fill small areas...if it's bodywork that needs to be sanded flush, you really do need to hit it w/an accelerator & sand it immediately, after an hour it crystallizes and is harder than the plastic around it. When it's first cured it's about the same hardness as the plastic, easy to sand down. When gluing the front/back half of seats, I apply a generous bead of the CA all around the joint, zap it with accelerator, and then sand away the excess with sanding sticks. No waiting for putty to dry. A seat can be done in minutes...not overnight.

Sometimes I'll use a medium CA, the thin ones are a bit dangerous IMHO, I haven't needed super thin CA in all the years I've been building, the Zap a Gap is my CA of choice for building 90% of any model. I use liquid styrene cement to glue sub assemblies prior to painting, and canopy glue for clear items, and epoxy when I need a really permanent bond.

Thanks for the reply Zoom.

Yeah I will definitely get this then, I might also buy the Zap De-Bonder, probably worth it incase I ever need to unglue something.

I didn't think you would have to use an accelerator since most superglues cure really quickly don't they?

Anyhow, I did a quick search and found this:

ZIP Kicker - Accelerator

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-4107290884353_2075_58011618

I'll probably grab one of these along with the debonder and 'zap-a-gap' of course!

:iceslolan

I use 2 component epoxy. It is not comfortable to deal with but I do not have to sorry about curing times.

Zap-a-Gap is one of many brands of medium-thickness CA. I prefer Gorilla's Superglue (also CA). It's about the same thickness as ZaG and it's used exactly the same way.

The advantage is that it contains rubber so it's less brittle and more resistant to shock. And it doesn't have that strong CA smell. And, IMO, it has a better cap.

Yes, you will need an accelerator. Thick CA dries much more slowly than the thin stuff.

(Gorilla's Superglue should NOT be confused with Gorilla Glue. It's completely different stuff.)

A book could be written on the subject of adhesives in modeling thanks to all the great products available now. I use 2-part epoxy for strength on 75% of my avg model. It also allows time to position accurately. It seems like supeglues tend to bond the instant they contact if you need to position something accurately but remain liquid for an eternity when location is goof-proof. Go figure.

When using ca I transfer it to the parts using a straight pin from a drop placed on a piece of printed paperboard like a cut up square from a cereal box. Using the pin and sealed paperboard minimizes absorption and gives about 15 minutes before the glue drop dries out. A pin can be cleaned with a #11 quickly.

I use the thin stuff for filling shallow depressions and gaps because of its self-leveling qualities. I use accelerator on big RC models when tacking but not on fine-scale stuff. The accelerator causes such a fast reaction that gas is trapped in the bond making it a bit weaker and causing a rough surface in my experience. I guess it's a preference thing. I'm not in that big a hurry anyway. Then there's that oily residue.

Most ca bonds are weak and brittle between non-porous surfaces. The more porous each surface is, the stronger the bond. Example1: fabric to soft balsa = extremely strong. Example2: brass to aluminum = snap!

... The accelerator causes such a fast reaction that gas is trapped in the bond making it a bit weaker and causing a rough surface in my experience. I guess it's a preference thing. I'm not in that big a hurry anyway. Then there's that oily residue.

Right on all three counts! If the joint needs a lot of strength, I don't use accelerator. But then I have to plan how to hold everything in place until the CA dries. I've used poster tack, masking tape, rubber bands, all kinds of clamps, gravity, weights, tweezers, Liqui-tape from Microscale, my fat fingers, and other methods that I can't remember.

Keep in mind that you don't want get glue on anything but the joint. Or to glue your fingers or other holding devices to your model!

I sure haven't found the perfect solution. For me, positioning and neatly gluing small parts is still the hardest thing about modeling.

A book could be written on the subject of adhesives in modeling thanks to all the great products available now. I use 2-part epoxy for strength on 75% of my avg model. It also allows time to position accurately. It seems like supeglues tend to bond the instant they contact if you need to position something accurately but remain liquid for an eternity when location is goof-proof. Go figure.

When using ca I transfer it to the parts using a straight pin from a drop placed on a piece of printed paperboard like a cut up square from a cereal box. Using the pin and sealed paperboard minimizes absorption and gives about 15 minutes before the glue drop dries out. A pin can be cleaned with a #11 quickly.

I use the thin stuff for filling shallow depressions and gaps because of its self-leveling qualities. I use accelerator on big RC models when tacking but not on fine-scale stuff. The accelerator causes such a fast reaction that gas is trapped in the bond making it a bit weaker and causing a rough surface in my experience. I guess it's a preference thing. I'm not in that big a hurry anyway. Then there's that oily residue.

Most ca bonds are weak and brittle between non-porous surfaces. The more porous each surface is, the stronger the bond. Example1: fabric to soft balsa = extremely strong. Example2: brass to aluminum = snap!

:iagree: 212,34%
Adhesives are like paintbrushes - sure you can paint everything and anything with just the one brush, but in reality there are individual brushes best suited for certain painting jobs so you get the best results if you have a selection of brushes.

Same story with glues. Better to have a selection of types of adhesives at at hand (especially that they are about the cheapest supply material you will buy ;) )

All in all my favourites and constant companions are Tamiya thin (applies with on old paint brush), no-name 5 minute epoxy and BSI thin non-fogging CA.

To apply CA I have a ton of old sewing needles from which I remove half of the eye to leave a "Y". The points are pushed and glued into old bits of sprue. With this tool it is super easy and clean to pick up one drop of glue, move it to the part and watch it run into the joint by capillary action.

I use freebie CDs and DVDs as adhesive pallettes.

All in all my favourites and constant companions are Tamiya thin (applies with on old paint brush), no-name 5 minute epoxy and BSI thin non-fogging CA.

Is that the Tamiya "Extra Thin"? Is it a solvent like the Testors Plastic Cement that comes in a bottle?

Is the BSI the Supergold?

Ddms

Is that the Tamiya "Extra Thin"? Is it a solvent like the Testors Plastic Cement that comes in a bottle?

Ddms

Yes, the Tamiya extra thin (with green cap) is probably the world's best liquid glue. Like Tamiya sprays/primers & Tamiya compounds, the thin cement beats others at their own game because it's both a great liquid styrene cement & also has an incredibly useful little brush that's not quite a normal brush that makes application so easy.

This stuff is very highly regarded by most all my modeling friends...and myself. Once you get some, you quit even thinking about Testors...

yeah my Tamiya extra thin arrived the other day, its a great product and the fine tip brush (part of the cap) really makes it even easier to work with.

Thats something I was hoping a CA glue would have (brush-cap) but I'm used to using fine sticks, needles etc, so that will be fine anyway.

Zap is available widely where I live so I think it will be the best option for me... I've already spent enough money importing paints etc from Hong Kong.... damn the E.U for label regulations.... damn impossible to get popular Tamiya paints in the UK now!

I'm feeling a little tired from lack of sleep and work so please correct me if im wrong, but did I correctly read some of you guys use accelerator on Zap a Gap? That bottle pictured on Turbo's O.P. dries in about 10 to 15 seconds. How much faster do you guys want things to cure? You have to test fit things before you apply that otherwise you'll go through some problems and a mess. Zap a Gap will fog things up so be careful to use around chrome or clear parts. I only use this to glue photo etch or some plastic to plastic parts that I dont trust regular modelers glue to get the job done (such as chopping up the chassis/parts to lower the ride height). I used Tamiya putty to cover up areas on my resin kits and it worked great. Unless you're on top of your game I'd say just practice patience and avoid glue messes.

chato,

So its fine to use Tamiya putty on resin...it will stick ok? .... thats great! I'm used to working with it and wasn't sure if I could use it on resin kits!

Zap-A-Gap appears on most hobbyshop/moddlers web sites so I'm presuming its a decent product for modelmaking but your right, caution is required...

There was another thread here recently about someone who was trying to get glue off clear parts, so if the worst happens then I'm sure it will be salvageable.... I try to use as little glue as possible... most of the time this works great....sometimes I don't apply enough but this is usually rare.

I'm feeling a little tired from lack of sleep and work so please correct me if im wrong, but did I correctly read some of you guys use accelerator on Zap a Gap? That bottle pictured on Turbo's O.P. dries in about 10 to 15 seconds. How much faster do you guys want things to cure? You have to test fit things before you apply that otherwise you'll go through some problems and a mess. Zap a Gap will fog things up so be careful to use around chrome or clear parts. I only use this to glue photo etch or some plastic to plastic parts that I dont trust regular modelers glue to get the job done (such as chopping up the chassis/parts to lower the ride height). I used Tamiya putty to cover up areas on my resin kits and it worked great. Unless you're on top of your game I'd say just practice patience and avoid glue messes.

It doesn't cure that fast on it's own (though it is faster than ancient styrene tube glue), and if you use the accelerator the fogging will not happen (I've been using it for nearly 2 decades this way, fogging has not been an issue whatsoever). For small filling jobs it's much better than waiting for putty to dry, doesn't matter if it's plastic or resin you're filling. You don't have to have glue on parts to test fit them. Dry fit first to see how it fits...then use glue...

Good point zoom, I do tend to leave putty for a good 24 hours.... zap-a-gap could save a lot time!

Under perfect conditions, Zap-a-Gap might dry in 15 seconds, but you never know. As somebody else mentioned in this thread, it's unpredictable. Applied thickly, or sitting in a puddle, it can take half-an-hour or more to set. With accelerator, it pops almost instantly. The idea is to apply the glue and position the pieces perfectly before applying the accelerator. Of course, any movement can spread glue around - not good. I usually try to drip the accelerator on to avoid disturbing the glue or the pieces. But, as I said, I'm a long way from perfecting the art of gluing.

For mixing palettes, I use squares of .100" Teflon sheet. Great stuff; I got it at a surplus store, but have no idea where else you can buy it. When the glue on the palette dries, it can be easily peeled off and the palette re-used. It even works for epoxy! OTOH, tape sticks to it just fine, so I also use Teflon pieces for painting paddles. The paint can be wiped off with lacquer thinner. Highly recommended stuff, if you can find it.

I'll be getting some Tamiya Extra Thin at my LHS today. Hopefully, that will reduce my messy joint rate.

I too use Zap-A-Gap for almost all my needs ... and the best part about it is they have figured out how to make a proper top! I have about a quarter bottle left and it is still flowing and the top still sealing! It's about 15 years old now I believe.

I just got a tube of the original super glue for some thin stuff I needed and the cap is already unremovable after only 2 uses.

I'll be getting some Tamiya Extra Thin at my LHS today. Hopefully, that will reduce my messy joint rate.
The brush in the bottle is pretty good but picks up quite a lot of the cement. You will be better served on most joints if you dedicate a couple of old, thin tipped paint brushes to the job. You will have more control on dosage and precision. :2cents:

You will be better served on most joints if you dedicate a couple of old, thin tipped paint brushes to the job. You will have more control on dosage and precision. :2cents:

Thanks! Like my friend Spanky says, :2cents: beats nonsense every time. He also says that there's nothing better than a good joint.

Oh, and if the "aftermarket" brush dries out, how can I bring it back to life?

Oh, and if the "aftermarket" brush dries out, how can I bring it back to life?
I've been using the same pair of brushes for 2 years now so I don't suppose it really is a problem. :twocents:

However, if you do find yourself needing to reanimate a brush, maybe try mouth-to-bristle resuscitation? :nonsense:

;)

Since it's a solvent, I guess it dissolves... itself.

It doesn't cure that fast on it's own (though it is faster than ancient styrene tube glue), and if you use the accelerator the fogging will not happen (I've been using it for nearly 2 decades this way, fogging has not been an issue whatsoever). For small filling jobs it's much better than waiting for putty to dry, doesn't matter if it's plastic or resin you're filling. You don't have to have glue on parts to test fit them. Dry fit first to see how it fits...then use glue...

I used Zap A Gap to glue the coilovers when I chopped them to lower the height of the ride. I drilled in the center of them and inserted a piece of aluminum/metal. Everything was glued with Zap A Gap but I test fitted everything first so I know exactly how to apply them once i used the glue. Perhaps its the fact that I was using small amounts of the glue but everything bonded within seconds, in some cases including my fingers. Great product though. Wont get dumped in the trash after 2 uses like original CA.

A minor miracle:

Yesterday, a support strut broke off my Speedster frame while I was working on the cockpit. The strut is attached only by a couple of .010" rods inserted into a hole and notch in the frame. I've never had much luck repairing broken styrene rods, even with epoxy, so it looked like I'd have to re-create the entire strut assembly with brass. That would have involved a lot of time - and soldering.

So I took a wild swing. I just stuck the strut onto the frame, flooding the scraped joints with some of my newly acquired Tamiya Extra Thin Cement. It seemed like mission impossible, but I let it cure overnight anyway.

This morning I expected to find a couple of weak, soft joints, but I was amazed to find that the joints are solid!

Tamiya Extra Thin to the rescue. Thanks, Klutz. This is great stuff!

BTW, the Fujimi Speedster is not the easiest model I've ever built. The instructions aren't very clear about some of the attachment points. The parts are abundant and nicely made except for one small detail - many of them don't line up quite right. Just about everything has to be carefully fitted and trimmed before final gluing.

I received my first Studio27 kit today...

Upon reading the instructions it says that the epoxy glue is essential for metal parts.

The rear wing on my kit is made entirely out of metal so will Zap not work when joining the rear wing to the resin body? ... Should I buy an epoxy glue? :screwy:

... Should I buy an epoxy glue? :screwy:
Yes!.

As I wrote earlier...

:iagree: 212,34%
Adhesives are like paintbrushes - sure you can paint everything and anything with just the one brush, but in reality there are individual brushes best suited for certain painting jobs so you get the best results if you have a selection of brushes.

Same story with glues. Better to have a selection of types of adhesives at at hand (especially that they are about the cheapest supply material you will buy ;) )

You really need a whole battery of adhesives to build models IMO regardless of whether it's resin, plastic or metal. I mostly use all my types of adhesive on every build.

At the very least it would be best if you had:
Plastic cement eg Tamiya thin and optionally a tube version
2-part epoxy resins (5-minute and 15-minute)
PVA glue ; wood glue or similar for clear parts
CA glue: thick and thin, fogging and non-fogging
CA accelerator
I have even found that liquid mask makes a useful adhesive for test fitting :)

Thanks klutz

Well I have about 3 of those already so yes I will stock up on the others.

I tried out Zap-A-Gap the other day and I am begining to understand the need for the accerlerator. I found that whilst holding the pieces in place they were sliding around a lot, it was like the glue wasn't curing as fast as I expected.

Will pick up a bottle of zip kicker!

I would add both glossy and flat clear acrylics to Klutz's list.

...I am begining to understand the need for the accerlerator. I found that whilst holding the pieces in place they were sliding around a lot, it was like the glue wasn't curing as fast as I expected.

ITYS.:grinyes: See Post #16, this thread.

Ddms

As a general rule, I don't use CA for air bubbles in resin kits because it is some much harder when it dries. You risk sanding away kit trying to smooth out the CA. Try Squadron putty or 3m Acryl blu - both are stinky yet effective

As a general rule, I don't use CA for air bubbles in resin kits because it is some much harder when it dries. You risk sanding away kit trying to smooth out the CA.

Well, that's what makes horse races. In my experience, cured thick CA (I use Gorilla Super Glue) and styrene seem to sand at about the same rate. Never had a problem sanding away too much plastic.

OTOH, I have had problems with Squadron Putty cracking when cured.

Ddms

Squadron putty is garbage as far as I'm concerned. I got a crack running right down the center of a cycle fuel tank that didn't appear until months after it was built. Never again! I use thin CA, Milliput or epoxy mixed with microballoons now.

CA glues react with moisture in the air and surface to cure. I think that's why there is so much variability in the cure time. I keep my CA in the fridge when I'm not using it because of the low humidity. It'll last forever in there.

I mentioned earlier I use fast cure epoxy for 75% of assembly tasks now. After trying what seems like a million different brands I like this stuff the most:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92665

It's cheap, comes in small tubes, and is strong enough for any job, yet weak enough to remove in the event of a disaster. The best thing is the rate the stuff sets up. It starts to thicken shortly after it's mixed allowing me to vary the viscosity depending on where it's going: Thin to flow into a joint, thick to stay put on a vertical surface, etc. The precision is on a different scale than CA and there is no danger of fogging. I call it 2.5 minute epoxy because it reacts much faster than 5 minute. One package will build about 2-3 1/24 models. If you watch the Harbor Freight fliers you can pick the stuff up for $1 a pack. That is a bargain!

Squadron putty is garbage as far as I'm concerned. I got a crack running right down the center of a cycle fuel tank that didn't appear until months after it was built. Never again!

Yep. I've had exactly the same problem. I have a couple of tubes that I need to throw away!

Can't say too much good about Tamiya Basic Putty or Mr. White Putty, either. The Tamiya dries almost instantly, so there's no chance to shape it before it gets very, very hard. MrWP has very little surface adhesion, so you have to press it down to make it stay put - but that spreads it all over the place. In other words, it's weird stuff and messy as hell.

Today I used some Bondo Glazing & Spot Putty to fill some 1/16" holes. I've heard about it for a long time, but haven't gotten around to trying it. Wish I had - it's the first putty I've actually enjoyed using. It comes out soft and sticky, so it stays where you put it. It's got good body, so you can easily mold it into a rough shape. It takes about 20 minutes to dry, so you've got time to do some shaping and remove any excess. I don't know how it works long term - it may crack like a dry-lake bed in two weeks - but so far, very, very good.

BGSP comes in a 4.5 oz / 127.5 g tube and costs about $5 at auto parts emporia like Pep Boys and Chief Auto Parts.

So my new filler/putty "arsenal" consists of:

1. Medium-thick Gorilla Super Glue for pinholes, nicks and building up edges.
2. Bondo Glazing and Spot Putty for larger holes and gaps.
3. Tamiya Surface Primer (from the bottom of the bottle) to fill shallow depressions, cover uneven paint edges, etc.

Ddms