selecting the best used car for my needs

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for suggestions on makes, models, and anecdotal evidence from all you car experts out there on which car(s) would make the most sense for my needs (listed below).

I've just moved back to the US after living in Europe for 6 years where I didn't drive at all and now I need to buy a car again :-)

Basically, I'm looking for something that will fulfill the following:

+ reliability in bad winter weather (I live near Boston and the winters can be rough on a car; I don't want to get stuck in the snow too much)
+ reasonable gas mileage
+ relatively low maintenance and repair costs
+ can transport a mid-size guitar amp
+ under $10K

Many thanks for any suggestions!!

My pick (seems like I'm saying this a lot lately) would be a Jeep Grand Cherokee if you don't drive like a maniac (I'm assuming you don't :D) it'll get 17-21 mpg. Can be picked up in great condition with low miles for 10k. Best vehicle ever in the winter. Reliable, and relatively cheap to maintain

@Shpuker (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=622759), thx for the reply. Seems like your pick would fit my needs, though I thought I read the Jeep Cherokee had a boatload of electrical problems though?

I've never heard of them having any electrical problems at all. Had a 96 a few years bacak and it had nothing at all wrong with it at 180,000 miles

You do not want a Grand Cherokee with a 4.7 or 318.The Jeep Grand Cherokees with a 318 or 360 are gas hogs due to having fulltime 4wd.The 4.7 is not very reliable,head gaskets and once in a while a valve seat coming out of the cylinder heads making the cylinder head junk right away.Plus the 4.7 is very expensive to fix if anything major breaks.An used 4.7 goes for $1,500.00 out of a wrecking yard.Find one with a 4.0 since it has great fuel mileage and the 4.0 is very reliable engine which cannot be killed.

@Shpuker (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=622759), thx for the reply. Seems like your pick would fit my needs, though I thought I read the Jeep Cherokee had a boatload of electrical problems though?

Your mention of buying a vehicle under $10K, I don't care what you read, any JC in your price range in excellent condition is way beyond having these type problems you mentioned.

You do not want a Grand Cherokee with a 4.7 or 318.The Jeep Grand Cherokees with a 318 or 360 are gas hogs due to having fulltime 4wd.The 4.7 is not very reliable,head gaskets and once in a while a valve seat coming out of the cylinder heads making the cylinder head junk right away.Plus the 4.7 is very expensive to fix if anything major breaks.An used 4.7 goes for $1,500.00 out of a wrecking yard.Find one with a 4.0 since it has great fuel mileage and the 4.0 is very reliable engine which cannot be killed.

Why do you insist on making false, broad, and annoying claims in every single one of your posts?

the 4.7 is a much better engine than the 4.0, it is not a gas hog, the one I had was a 4.7. Its actually fairly inexpensive to repair.

Other than that it was so un-legible I could not for the life of me understand it.

And would learning how to use spaces kill you? Just type like everyone else.

The 4.7 is expensive to fix and my father has two 4.7s that are junk.One is out of a 2001 Dakota,blown head gaskets with egg shaped cylinders due to getting way too hot and the heads are junk,valve seats fell out.Another is in a Durango,bad headgaskets also.My father price a rebuild for the Dakota,just for the shortblock: $2,000.00 from a machine shop.The 4.0 has been a proven engine since it came out in the 1960s.Go to www.car-part.com and see the price of an used 4.7,you will see it is $1,500.00 for an used 4.7 from any yard.I talked to a guy that has one in a fullsize Dodge truck,headgaskets failed twice with his and it is a 4.7.Ended up replacing the engine with a Jasper reman a third time

Personally, I think that we should try and steer the original poster away from any kind of 4x4 SUV. Regardless of brand, most SUV's tend to be too heavy, too inefficient and too maintenance-intensive to be a good choice.

The OP has not mentioned that he will ever need the trailer-towing capacity or space for the family that an SUV can offer.

So, IMO the best choice is a front wheel drive car or crossover, with a set of snow tires for winter. They will be much better for fuel economy, ease of handling etc than any SUV, and many will have the space he needs.

I would suggest a Toyota Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, Honda Element, Ford Escape (front wheel drive versions are cheaper), Chevrolet HHR, or a compact wagon like a Mazda 6 wagon. If those are a bit expensive, there are loads of affordable Chrysler PT Cruisers out there.

You do not want a PT Cruiser,some years had transmission problems with them and one fix was to put a cooler from the mini vans.I know about it,one customer had problem with her transmission twice and her husband called it a pregnant Neon.She traded it in for a Chevy Equinox which has been trouble free

Personally, I think that we should try and steer the original poster away from any kind of 4x4 SUV. Regardless of brand, most SUV's tend to be too heavy, too inefficient and too maintenance-intensive to be a good choice.

The OP has not mentioned that he will ever need the trailer-towing capacity or space for the family that an SUV can offer.

So, IMO the best choice is a front wheel drive car or crossover, with a set of snow tires for winter. They will be much better for fuel economy, ease of handling etc than any SUV, and many will have the space he needs.

I would suggest a Toyota Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, Honda Element, Ford Escape (front wheel drive versions are cheaper), Chevrolet HHR, or a compact wagon like a Mazda 6 wagon. If those are a bit expensive, there are loads of affordable Chrysler PT Cruisers out there.

He lives in Boston so he needs a vehicle that can get around in the snow. FWD is his worst option. Also why I suggest an SUV for him. Much more conviniant for travling in the winter.


And where I'm not much of a fan of the PT Cruiser Wafre. is once again full of shit.

And the 4.7L is a great engine. It is VERY reliabel and get relitively good gas mileage. Wafre just like to bash all Chrysler LLC products

He lives in Boston so he needs a vehicle that can get around in the snow. FWD is his worst option. Also why I suggest an SUV for him. Much more conviniant for travling in the winter.


Boston has a winter which is why FWD is best for this guy.

FWD is great in snow. I have been driving in Ontario for 27 years.... I know snow. I have owned over 25 FWD, RWD and 4x4 cars and trucks.
Of course 4x4 is preferred, but FWD beats RWD every time in the snow, especially for the novice, like this person.

FWD has better traction, all things being equal. And when FWD does spin in the snow the car tends to go in a straight line until you get off the gas.
It's predictable amd MUCH better for the novice (again) driver like the OP.

RWD is a nightmare in the snow unless you are experienced enough to put that sliding to good use. You may have forgotten how incredibly disconcerting RWD sliding is for the novice driver.

I would never recommend RWD to anyone for the snow unless they are an experienced winter driver.


As for the PT Cruiser, you get what you pay for. As I suggested, it could be a much cheaper alternative than the other cars I mentioned, even though its a bit less reliable.

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for suggestions on makes, models, and anecdotal evidence from all you car experts out there on which car(s) would make the most sense for my needs (listed below).
Basically, I'm looking for something that will fulfill the following:
+ reliability in bad winter weather (I live near Boston and the winters can be rough on a car; I don't want to get stuck in the snow too much)
+ reasonable gas mileage
+ relatively low maintenance and repair costs
+ can transport a mid-size guitar amp
+ under $10K

Many thanks for any suggestions!!
Like MagicRat said FWD is the best option for this member in this case. While Boston doesn't see as bad of a winter as what MagicRat and I get, they still need a good vehicle to get around. the price kind of limits the field a bit as my first thoughts were one of the newer crossover type vehicles as they offer good handling plus plenty of room to haul passengers and cargo, and are fairly decent on the gas mileage, and maintenance costs. (Properly maintaining any vehicle can keep overall fuel and maintenance costs lower, and that includes preventative maintenance.) The only problem is most of these newer crossovers aren't anywhere near the price point the OP is looking for, and won't be for a few more years. That leaves other vehicles that could fit the bill like a minivan or sport wagon. I've been driving a minivan the past decade with a good set of snow tires and have had no issues.The maintenance costs are fairly low and the gas mileage is between 18 to 22 mpg.
Searching through some of the forums here on this site can give one a good idea as to what specific issues keep popping up that need attention. That can help make the decision as to what vehicle might be a good choice to fit their needs.
Also searching through the online inventories of larger used car dealers in their area can give them a good idea of what is available and the current costs for these vehicles. you can shop in the leisure of your home and see which vehicles fit your need for hauling and some even have additional info such as mpg. Then you have a better idea of what to look for when you go out and visit the dealers themselves, or private sellers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZTTn2gq67I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL8hXQgXGlE&feature=related

my favorite :D --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz9RJVXDHFY

For all our Germans -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydva0Ce3brk

FWD cars have much worse grip in the snow. you take a corner to fast and your goin head first into the ditch, take that same corner at the same speed in a RWD vehicle and your either fishtailing through or sliding off backwards. Or this, you stop at a stop light on an icy day in your FWD POS, light turns green. you push down on the gass and the weight shifts away from the drive wheels and suddenly all your wheels are doing is spinning, in RWD vehicle the weight of the car shifts to the drive wheels and gains more grip. In an AWD vehicle the weight shits to the drive wheels but there are also the front wheels to nearly double the amount of grip you have. Thus your not trapped at home all winter.


And to 97, He can get a Grand Cherokee for sheaper than your "sport" wagon and mini-van, get the same gas mileage, have AWD, and have similar if not cheaper repair costs.

In ice and snow AWD > RWD > FWD
for everyday driving without the possibility of harsh conditions ever, RWD > FWD > AWD
For idiots that can't drive, get a damn civic. that way you won't be able to get in anyones way if it snows.

for 90% of people in the world, RWD > AWD > FWD.

Give me one fact and support it with actual eidence. Cause you can't

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZTTn2gq67I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL8hXQgXGlE&feature=related

my favorite :D --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz9RJVXDHFY

For all our Germans -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydva0Ce3brk

FWD cars have much worse grip in the snow. you take a corner to fast and your goin head first into the ditch, take that same corner at the same speed in a RWD vehicle and your either fishtailing through or sliding off backwards. Or this, you stop at a stop light on an icy day in your FWD POS, light turns green. you push down on the gass and the weight shifts away from the drive wheels and suddenly all your wheels are doing is spinning, in RWD vehicle the weight of the car shifts to the drive wheels and gains more grip. In an AWD vehicle the weight shits to the drive wheels but there are also the front wheels to nearly double the amount of grip you have. Thus your not trapped at home all winter.


And to 97, He can get a Grand Cherokee for sheaper than your "sport" wagon and mini-van, get the same gas mileage, have AWD, and have similar if not cheaper repair costs.

In ice and snow AWD > RWD > FWD
for everyday driving without the possibility of harsh conditions ever, RWD > FWD > AWD
For idiots that can't drive, get a damn civic. that way you won't be able to get in anyones way if it snows.

for 90% of people in the world, RWD > AWD > FWD.

Give me one fact and support it with actual eidence. Cause you can't

Puker, what are you talking about? Honestly, when was the last time you drove a FWD car through snow, cause I'm guessing never. I have driven FWD my whole life through Canadian winters and have never experienced ANY of the problems you are talking about. Using YouTube as your encyclopedia is probably your first problem. 1) the engine is overtop of the drive wheels in a FWD car, and because weight distribution is typically biased towards the front, a FWD car is getting much more traction than a RWD car from a stop. You say the weight is shifted backwards, how fast are you accelerating on ice? You aren't, it's a moot point. 2) FWD is simpler and cheaper to maintain/fix, no differentials, driveshaft. 3) For the 99% of the time you don't need 4WD, it is causing rolling resistance/friction on your tires, needlessly eating gas. 4) For people that boast 4x4's are better in winter, I typically pass one every day on my way to work (in my FWD Mazda) that has been overconfident and gone in the ditch. A 4x4 doesn't stop any better in bad weather, and usually stops worse because they are heavy.

A few posts back a guy suggested cars like Vibe, Element, Mazda6, he knows what he is talking about. And some of those even come in AWD if you decide to go that route - just weigh your pros/cons. AWD is heavier, more expensive to maintain/fix and uses more gas, BUT it does enable you to accelerate better in snowy conditions, gives you a little security knowing it's more difficult to get stuck, and is more fun around corners.

If you want cheap, get a FWD with snow tires. Want proof they work, look around Ontario. Massive annual snowfall, 85% of cars are FWD. If you have the extra cash get a car with AWD, it will be beneficial, but keep the snow tires, it's the most important part. If you want to waste money in gas and repairs, get an SUV. Then watch the little FWD 'POS's' fill up at the gas station and leave with $30, while you're stuck putting in $75, thinking 'why did I buy this?'

I can. A Lot of how a vehicle handles in the winter is dependent on the driver's skills and abilities. I have driven the same amount of time as MagicRat and in our area we average close to 190" of snow in a season that runs from October to late April.I also have owned close to 25 vehicles in that time. I have definitely "cut my teeth" in experience when it comes to the argument of RWD vs. FWD. I used to be a RWD junkie and have the same views as you...until I got married 13 years ago. That is when I first owned a FWD car. I used to laugh as I drove past FWD and 4x4s on the highways and hills driving my Grand Prix, one of 3 "pre 1982" Monte Carlos, Caprices, Impalas, etc. One of the reasons I attribute to my success in the winter with these vehicles is my driving ability and a good pair of snow tires. ( At the same time I have seen others attempt driving with these same vehicles and not coming even close to the results I experienced.)
I was skeptical as to the performance of FWD in the winter but as I got used to how they are different and adapted to them, along (again) with a good set of snows I achieved the same results as I did with my older RWD. The type of RWD vehicle is important as well. My vehicles tended to do a lot better than other smaller, lighter RWD versions like the Mustang. So choice plays an important role as well.
Also I was offering more choices to the OP for a wider selection of vehicles they could choose from under $10,000. Some sport wagons ( older, first versions) are coming down in price as more modern minivans which are plentiful in supply due to the large amount that were produced. I wasn't saying they are a "fits all" rather an additional choice to consider as their maintenance costs are also low and their mpg is within an acceptable range for the amount of cargo space they offer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZTTn2gq67I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL8hXQgXGlE&feature=related

my favorite :D --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz9RJVXDHFY

For all our Germans -->http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydva0Ce3brk



PS, none of these vids show snow (the OP specifically said snow), and the idiots in the last vid are horrible drivers. Of course if you plant the gas down in a FWD you'll spin...that's typically why you start from second gear and ease the throttle.

Now let's see how that goes in snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97NVgvq2SzY

Let's see how this FWD POS gets stuck...oh wait

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ElgttSQ_v4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C_q6H5RCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxbCMzen7mY

and now for some good ol' fashioned winter crack-ups that everyone can enjoy - *highly recommend this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxwgHGCrrS4

Hey everyone,
Thanks for the posts so far! I need to check out those youtube vids.

In the meantime, what are the best websites for finding used cars? Now I'm thinking I don't need anything too big (ie. for transporting my guitar amp), but just enough to bring around my acoustic guitar, so probably a 2-door coupe is sufficient.

Hey everyone,
Thanks for the posts so far! I need to check out those youtube vids.

In the meantime, what are the best websites for finding used cars? Now I'm thinking I don't need anything too big (ie. for transporting my guitar amp), but just enough to bring around my acoustic guitar, so probably a 2-door coupe is sufficient.

As for you finding the right vehicle, you stirred the pot having a few experts fighting for rights making this thread an excellent one, I won't get Involved as to what you finally choose, but will tell you the best place to look in my mind will be " autotrader.com " for finding and compare value for any area once you have selected a vehicle of choice.

Puker, what are you talking about? Honestly, when was the last time you drove a FWD car through snow, cause I'm guessing never. I have driven FWD my whole life through Canadian winters and have never experienced ANY of the problems you are talking about. Using YouTube as your encyclopedia is probably your first problem. 1) the engine is overtop of the drive wheels in a FWD car, and because weight distribution is typically biased towards the front, a FWD car is getting much more traction than a RWD car from a stop. You say the weight is shifted backwards, how fast are you accelerating on ice? You aren't, it's a moot point. 2) FWD is simpler and cheaper to maintain/fix, no differentials, driveshaft. 3) For the 99% of the time you don't need 4WD, it is causing rolling resistance/friction on your tires, needlessly eating gas. 4) For people that boast 4x4's are better in winter, I typically pass one every day on my way to work (in my FWD Mazda) that has been overconfident and gone in the ditch. A 4x4 doesn't stop any better in bad weather, and usually stops worse because they are heavy.

A few posts back a guy suggested cars like Vibe, Element, Mazda6, he knows what he is talking about. And some of those even come in AWD if you decide to go that route - just weigh your pros/cons. AWD is heavier, more expensive to maintain/fix and uses more gas, BUT it does enable you to accelerate better in snowy conditions, gives you a little security knowing it's more difficult to get stuck, and is more fun around corners.

If you want cheap, get a FWD with snow tires. Want proof they work, look around Ontario. Massive annual snowfall, 85% of cars are FWD. If you have the extra cash get a car with AWD, it will be beneficial, but keep the snow tires, it's the most important part. If you want to waste money in gas and repairs, get an SUV. Then watch the little FWD 'POS's' fill up at the gas station and leave with $30, while you're stuck putting in $75, thinking 'why did I buy this?'

If we get even a light snow here there are FWD cars sittin in the ditch left and right.

1) No matter what type of car and no matter how fast you accelerate the weight shifts to the back of the car. Simple physics that you're having a hard time grasping
2) Generally yes, though most (and I stress most) FWD cars are imported cars, and the cost of the replacement components is more expensive.
3) Your right one this account, though RWD is still a better option than FWD and it gets just as good, if not better gas mileage.
4) If you don't drive like a complete moron AWD is much better. Much more traction and much better control in bad weather.
5) I'm using youtube to provide examples. Sorry if you've got no better response than to try and bash my source rather than the actual facts presented.
6) Small cars spend less gas to fill up for a few reasons. 1 their smaller and lighter and get better mileage (the point your pressing) 2 they have tiny ass gas tanks (the point your over looking) Of course its gona take more to fill up a 25-30 gallon tank rather than a 10-15 gallon tank.
7) to the bolded. :rofl:Bull shit. Looking forward to see how you try to prove this.

And one other thing your missing, many of the newer SUVs don't use AWD fulltime. As well as most AWD cars.

Hey everyone,
Thanks for the posts so far! I need to check out those youtube vids.

In the meantime, what are the best websites for finding used cars? Now I'm thinking I don't need anything too big (ie. for transporting my guitar amp), but just enough to bring around my acoustic guitar, so probably a 2-door coupe is sufficient.

maybe a 2000 or 2001 BMW 325i RWD of 4WD

Best places to look are Craigslist, Autotrader, Cars.com and yahoo autos

PS, none of these vids show snow (the OP specifically said snow), and the idiots in the last vid are horrible drivers. Of course if you plant the gas down in a FWD you'll spin...that's typically why you start from second gear and ease the throttle.

Now let's see how that goes in snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97NVgvq2SzY

Let's see how this FWD POS gets stuck...oh wait

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ElgttSQ_v4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5C_q6H5RCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxbCMzen7mY

and now for some good ol' fashioned winter crack-ups that everyone can enjoy - *highly recommend this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxwgHGCrrS4

First one is a guy screwin around in a Mustang on the ice. Second little group is a bunch of idiots drifing in the snow I presume, wouldn't load for me.
Last one is RWD, AWD and FWD cars and SUVs. whatever.

yay more youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p6bw0uiQcE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdbLGiGj_W8&feature=related
^ dumb asses thought they could drive a corse in revers lmao. But guess why the FWD car had more grip in reverse? the weight shifter to the drive wheels. RWD car would have less grip in reverse than going forwards. The SUV coulda taken it doin 25 lol was no issue at all.

We can do the youtube war all we want, FWD is still the worst in wet/icy/snowy conditions, hands down.

This is a decent artical on it, http://searchwarp.com/swa51377.htm he doesn't mention weight shifting though.

This argument has been had thousand of times on the internet. A ton of times on here for that matter.

In a FWD car with around a 60/40 weight distribution (front/rear) should have better grip. when you start to accelerate it shifts to around 50/50.
in a RWD car with a 50/50 weight distribution the weight also shifts to the rear while accelerating causeing around a 40/60 weight distribution. Hence RWD gains more grip while accelerating

Weight distribution has less of a shift the slower you accelerate obviously, and returns back to the norm when you start cruising. Thus creating understeer in FWD and oversteer in RWD.

When a FWD car comes into a corner at normal speeds the car will start to under steer and go off the road slightly, much more so at mild-high speeds. Simply because the front wheels have too much to do.

In RWD cars at normal speeds the car has total control due to the front wheels being free to steer while the rear wheels push the car around the corners. Take the corner to fast and you get oversteer, you can correct oversteer, its hard to correct under steer when your sliding off the road.

And just to avoid hearing this argument, if you take a corner going way to fast your more than likely going off the road either way, in RWD you can atleast try to steer the car away from trees and such.

K got the vids to load finally, first 2 are idiots that think their the shit cause they got their cars sideways in the snow, notice how he has to back off the ice and get traction on the dirt in the first vid.

The last one is a really good driver, guarantee you he can do the same thing in a RWD car.

Shpuker- Do me a favor and follow the Community Guidelines of this site. Do not post consecutively in a thread, rather edit your latest post to add more info. The last 3 posts are by you and span only 43 minutes. Consider this a warning.
From the Community Guidelines:
With each post you have the ability to edit them. Please use this feature. If you feel like adding more to your post or find you made a mistake, please insert an edit note to the message by using the edit feature. Placing back to back posts is considered spam, which can result in your message being removed from the thread.

Usually, Shpuker's advice is appropriate and decent, but in this case, it's way off base. It's biased towards his own personal preferences and imo are not the best advice for the OP.

I have driven in snow now for 27 winters. In that time I have owned and driven 25-odd FWD, RWD and 4x4 cars and trucks. FWD is better, especially for the novice.

I am not sure is Shpuker actually talks to ordinary or novice drivers. The VAST MAJORITY of car drivers in the winter want the superior traction and steering of FWD. They PREFER it because it is more predictable, it accelerates better and is easier to handle. Unlike Shpuker and me, they are not car enthusiasts and have no interest in the unpredictability of having the rear end of the car slide around. They simply want the easiest form of winter driving, often without shelling the bucks for 4WD.

I remember with great clarity, when Chrysler started making FWD cars in quantity in '78, GM in '79 and Ford in '81, the average Canadian car buyer was in seventh heaven. Huge quantities of car buyers, sick and tired of sliding around with RWD embraced FWD cars with great enthusiasm because of the superior winter driving performance.

And they have never looked back. FWD is still overwhelmingly preferred here for cars, even though RWD alternatives exist. So, Shpuker, are millions of Canadian FWD car buyers wrong when they prefer it for winter driving? I don't think so.

BMW cars?? Worthless in the snow. Worthless.(Except the SUV's are great with the correct tires). Lots of my friends and neighbors have RWD cars.... but for summertime performance, NOT for winter.

Sure, FWD may not be preferred for Shpuker personally, but for this original poster, Fwd is the way to go.

Imo any deficiencies of FWD stem from the lack of decent snow tires. FWD is good enough that people can get by with all-seasons, although this is often a bad choice.

Finally, there is ONE RWD car that is really good in the snow.... the old VW Beetle. With it's RWD and rear mounted engine.... the weight of the engine was over the driving wheels, just like a FWD car.

2) Generally yes, though most (and I stress most) FWD cars are imported cars, and the cost of the replacement components is more expensive.
Really? So most of the cars produced since the early '80s from GM, Ford, and Chrysler are considered imported? I thought you lived in the US. If that's the case then they aren't imports.

4) If you don't drive like a complete moron AWD is much better. Much more traction and much better control in bad weather.
While that may be the case for some people, AWD are generally more expensive to repair . Most people can get by with daily driving and save some money by using FWD. AWD still has some ground to make up and win some more fans over. It still isn't a popular option. One of the vehicles I drive, an '06 Uplander was offered in a AWD option, but was discontinued after only 2 model years due to poor sales. The FWD model lasted 3 more years.
5) I'm using youtube to provide examples.
That's just as bad as using Wikipedia to cite sources.
Here is an interesting paragraph from a website discussing the various options of AWD, and 4WD:

Safety Misconceptions

While 4WD and AWD may maximize traction better than 2WD, that doesn't necessarily translate into making it a safer vehicle. Oftentimes, drivers believe that because they can accelerate in snow just as quickly as on dry roads, they can do the same in terms of cornering and braking. On the contrary, 4WD and AWD do little to aid in cornering and nothing for braking ability on wet, snowy roads. Once moving, the physics of 2WD, 4WD, and AWD systems are pretty much the same. Rather than rely on AWD or 4WD, it's a better idea to think of them as an insurance policy that's there when you need it.

For most consumers, a set of quality all-season tires is a less-expensive alternative to pricey and complex all-wheel-drive systems. Even the most advanced 4WD vehicle will be left spinning its wheels in the snow if the wheels are shod with performance or touring tires.

Take a look at what kind of driving you normally do. Once you determine what type of vehicle best suits your needs, you can assess what type of system you need to get the job done. In some cases it may simply be 2WD with snow tires. In others, you may want to consider a more robust 4WD system with a low-range option.
Source (http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/your-ride-4wd-vs-awd-cga.htm)

Really? So most of the cars produced since the early '80s from GM, Ford, and Chrysler are considered imported? I thought you lived in the US. If that's the case then they aren't imports.


While that may be the case for some people, AWD are generally more expensive to repair . Most people can get by with daily driving and save some money by using FWD. AWD still has some ground to make up and win some more fans over. It still isn't a popular option. One of the vehicles I drive, an '06 Uplander was offered in a AWD option, but was discontinued after only 2 model years due to poor sales. The FWD model lasted 3 more years.

That's just as bad as using Wikipedia to cite sources.
Here is an interesting paragraph from a website discussing the various options of AWD, and 4WD:

Source (http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/your-ride-4wd-vs-awd-cga.htm)

1) Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Audi, VW, etc...

2) Way to take a statement out of context, I'm using it to support the fact that FWD gets less traction.

3) Even if you suggest him a 2WD option RWD is still the better option.

And to Magic Rat, BMW's are great winter drivers. Not sure where that BS comment came from.


And way to 3 on 1 this crap.

1) Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Audi, VW, etc...

2) Way to take a statement out of context, I'm using it to support the fact that FWD gets less traction.

3) Even if you suggest him a 2WD option RWD is still the better option.

And to Magic Rat, BMW's are great winter drivers. Not sure where that BS comment came from.


And way to 3 on 1 this crap.

Well, lets see here, hmmm. I wasn't taking anything out of context, just addressing some points you made, (not all of them.)
You stated in an earlier post that most FWD cars are imported. I don't know how it is in Colorado, but at least in my area the majority of FWD cars are still made by the Big 3 (GM, Ford, and Chrysler.) This was and still is in some cases a manufacturing town for these companies and the workforce for these are unionized, hence the loyalty to the brand. Parts are still generally less expensive and readily available.
On your 'idea' that FWD gets less traction. With current technologies plus a good set of snows I'd pin a FWD against a 4x4 , RWD or a AWD and see what happens. Chances are if the driver has the ability and experience to drive in the snow , they will do well, if not better.Heck even without some of the current aids to driving like traction control and stability control, the FWD still will perform well.
If the driver is inexperienced in winter driving they should not consider driving a 4x4 or AWD because they could be lulled into a false sense of security that seems to exist that these types of vehicles are better and not pay as close attention to their driving.
Castle Rock Co. gets on average 59" of snow.source (http://www.bestplaces.net/city/Castle_Rock-Colorado.aspx#). We can get that over the course of 2 to 3 days, and places just a half hour from me can get that in a day . When you start getting over 150" of snow a year then you can come back and discuss the merits of driving in snow and which is better. :lol:

I've noticed this here, in Northern Michigan and in every state inbetween. Nice try on the you don't get snow BS. Cause even with our small amount of snow FWD cars are never on the road in the winter.

EDIT: and most cars here that are FWD are japanese or European. Hardly any are domestic. Hell most vehicles here period were not made in the USA.

I've noticed this here, in Northern Michigan and in every state inbetween. Nice try on the you don't get snow BS. Cause even with our small amount of snow FWD cars are never on the road in the winter.

EDIT: and most cars here that are FWD are japanese or European. Hardly any are domestic. Hell most vehicles here period were not made in the USA.

Honestly, you must be joking. I know you like RWD cars, and they ARE BETTER IN THE SUMMER, but just think about what you are saying! It's just pure BS. Ford's lineup (FWD): Focus, Fusion, Taurus, Edge, Flex (some have FWD-biased AWD as an option). Chevy: Aveo, Cobalt, HHR, Impala, Malibu, and most of their crossovers. Dodge: Caliber, Avenger, Caravan, Journey. Almost all family-priced domestic vehicles are FWD or FWD-biased AWD. And believe it or not, they don't make these cars and sell them by the boatloads because they are crap!

Again, living in Ontario and through 4-5 months of snowfall every year in typical -20 Celsius weather, 85-90% of Canadian drivers (in more urban areas) are in FWD cars. If you go into the country sure you'll find more trucks, the roads aren't getting plowed so they need to be able to tread through deep snow. I think the OP is in Boston (right?) so while there may be a bit of snow, it's not as much as we would get where I drive.

Shpuker, you have the capacity to give good advice. You just need to think about what's good for the person asking the question, not what you want.

Oh, and someone mentioned the old Beetle being a good winter car cause the weight of the motor was over the drive wheels. Well, this is true for acceleration, but don't forget that now you have NO weight over the front wheels, the ones that are supposed to change your direction when you spin the little wheel in side. So you're right it probably accelerated better, but that's the problem - people associate a car that accelerates well with one that handles snow well. Not true! A car that can corner in the winter is the one you want, and because a FWD car's weight is over the tires that are doing the turning, you'll get much more grip. The tires that are getting power are the ones that control direction - wow, there's a novel idea!

But let it be said that crappy drivers will crash any car in the winter, be it FWD, RWD or AWD/4x4. You could put a good driver in a classic muscle car with all-seasons and they would manage.

i guess it just boils down to agreeing to disagree on the use of FWD, RWD, 4x4 and AWD in the winter. We'll let the registration numbers for each of these vehicles speak for themselves in their respective areas.
Nice try on the you don't get snow BS.
I did want to address this however. No where in my posts did I say you "don't get snow." I was referring to the seasonal amount. Having to drive in areas that get over 15 feet of snow in a season can give a certain perspective on what works and what doesn't when it comes to getting around.
Hopefully the OP can get some ideas on makes/models that would be good in the snow to get them around Boston, and at the same time meet their requirements for price and cargo hauling ability.

Usually, Shpuker's advice is appropriate and decent, but in this case, it's way off base. It's biased towards his own personal preferences and imo are not the best advice for the OP.

I have driven in snow now for 27 winters. In that time I have owned and driven 25-odd FWD, RWD and 4x4 cars and trucks. FWD is better, especially for the novice.

I am not sure is Shpuker actually talks to ordinary or novice drivers. The VAST MAJORITY of car drivers in the winter want the superior traction and steering of FWD. They PREFER it because it is more predictable, it accelerates better and is easier to handle. Unlike Shpuker and me, they are not car enthusiasts and have no interest in the unpredictability of having the rear end of the car slide around. They simply want the easiest form of winter driving, often without shelling the bucks for 4WD.

I remember with great clarity, when Chrysler started making FWD cars in quantity in '78, GM in '79 and Ford in '81, the average Canadian car buyer was in seventh heaven. Huge quantities of car buyers, sick and tired of sliding around with RWD embraced FWD cars with great enthusiasm because of the superior winter driving performance.

And they have never looked back. FWD is still overwhelmingly preferred here for cars, even though RWD alternatives exist. So, Shpuker, are millions of Canadian FWD car buyers wrong when they prefer it for winter driving? I don't think so.

BMW cars?? Worthless in the snow. Worthless.(Except the SUV's are great with the correct tires). Lots of my friends and neighbors have RWD cars.... but for summertime performance, NOT for winter.

Sure, FWD may not be preferred for Shpuker personally, but for this original poster, Fwd is the way to go.

Imo any deficiencies of FWD stem from the lack of decent snow tires. FWD is good enough that people can get by with all-seasons, although this is often a bad choice.

Finally, there is ONE RWD car that is really good in the snow.... the old VW Beetle. With it's RWD and rear mounted engine.... the weight of the engine was over the driving wheels, just like a FWD car.


x 1,000

Sphuker, I have no idea where you are getting your info from but you are, as it is being said, way off base on this arguement.

Well it's now 5 to 1 not worth making an argument out of this.

Good luck finding a good vehicle