97-00 GP Trivia
dizzle1
11-06-2009, 05:10 AM
Does anyone find this true
Pontiac's Grand Prix market cliche was wider is better but with the same Wide Track as all 2nd Gen W-body variants nothing really changed but styling. The base se model had styling which the public never liked and was dropped after 2000, which was Pontiac's early design of the Grand Prix it was so poorly executed the designer's changed the styling within a matter of weeks to keep sales high.
Pontiac's Grand Prix market cliche was wider is better but with the same Wide Track as all 2nd Gen W-body variants nothing really changed but styling. The base se model had styling which the public never liked and was dropped after 2000, which was Pontiac's early design of the Grand Prix it was so poorly executed the designer's changed the styling within a matter of weeks to keep sales high.
1typhoon
11-06-2009, 04:00 PM
Does anyone find this true
Pontiac's Grand Prix market cliche was wider is better but with the same Wide Track as all 2nd Gen W-body variants nothing really changed but styling. The base se model had styling which the public never liked and was dropped after 2000, which was Pontiac's early design of the Grand Prix it was so poorly executed the designer's changed the styling within a matter of weeks to keep sales high.
Hey that was almost 10 years ago, I wonder if anyone really cares by now?:dunno:
Pontiac's Grand Prix market cliche was wider is better but with the same Wide Track as all 2nd Gen W-body variants nothing really changed but styling. The base se model had styling which the public never liked and was dropped after 2000, which was Pontiac's early design of the Grand Prix it was so poorly executed the designer's changed the styling within a matter of weeks to keep sales high.
Hey that was almost 10 years ago, I wonder if anyone really cares by now?:dunno:
grandprixgtx00
11-06-2009, 07:18 PM
Does anyone find this true
Pontiac's Grand Prix market cliche was wider is better but with the same Wide Track as all 2nd Gen W-body variants nothing really changed but styling. The base se model had styling which the public never liked and was dropped after 2000, which was Pontiac's early design of the Grand Prix it was so poorly executed the designer's changed the styling within a matter of weeks to keep sales high.
the wheel base was not the same, hence the wide fender flares. Not true...
Pontiac's Grand Prix market cliche was wider is better but with the same Wide Track as all 2nd Gen W-body variants nothing really changed but styling. The base se model had styling which the public never liked and was dropped after 2000, which was Pontiac's early design of the Grand Prix it was so poorly executed the designer's changed the styling within a matter of weeks to keep sales high.
the wheel base was not the same, hence the wide fender flares. Not true...
CrazyHorst
11-06-2009, 07:23 PM
Never heard of "market cliche" before but I learn something new each day.
My personal fave is for the original recipe product out of Fairfax. I think Pontiac did a decent job of having 3 distinct packages. The GTP model is sort of a stealth vehicle as it looks identical to the GT (more or less).
The 60 deg V6 used in the SE model was never my favorite powertrain...the 90 deg V6 received a ton more engineering development and refinement in my thinking.
My personal fave is for the original recipe product out of Fairfax. I think Pontiac did a decent job of having 3 distinct packages. The GTP model is sort of a stealth vehicle as it looks identical to the GT (more or less).
The 60 deg V6 used in the SE model was never my favorite powertrain...the 90 deg V6 received a ton more engineering development and refinement in my thinking.
BNaylor
11-08-2009, 07:01 AM
Does anyone find this true
Pontiac's Grand Prix market cliche was wider is better but with the same Wide Track as all 2nd Gen W-body variants nothing really changed but styling. The base se model had styling which the public never liked and was dropped after 2000, which was Pontiac's early design of the Grand Prix it was so poorly executed the designer's changed the styling within a matter of weeks to keep sales high.
:confused:......:rolleyes:
Where did this statement come from and what time frame? Do you have a source? Confusing and ambiguous at best.
The second sentence doesn't make sense or is out of context. Obviously the SE model underwent a styling change and was never dropped after 2000 but continued into production until at least 2003 until the 7th generation Grand Prixs were introduced. For the 2001 model year the SE got the revised front clip similar to the GT and GTP models. 2000 the 3100 V6 engine went from a VIN 'M" designation to a VIN "J" with subtle differences or improvements. HP upped to 175 by 15 HP. Also, I recall the original SE model introduced in 1997 came with a Series II 3800 engine standard and later on the 3.1L VIN "M" engine.
IMO the GM 60 degree V6 engines including the 3400 are easier to work on (maintain) and mod. And in the right platform can out perform GM cars with the Series II 3800 VIN "K" and VIN "1" engines to include much better fuel economy.
Obviously the GM engineers overlooked maintainability on the 90 degree Series II 3800 engine versus the 60 degree 3100 engine. :twak: One example is it is a lot easier to do an oil and filter change on the 3100 versus the 3800. Checking power steering fluid level "no contest" in favor of the 3100.
Pontiac's Grand Prix market cliche was wider is better but with the same Wide Track as all 2nd Gen W-body variants nothing really changed but styling. The base se model had styling which the public never liked and was dropped after 2000, which was Pontiac's early design of the Grand Prix it was so poorly executed the designer's changed the styling within a matter of weeks to keep sales high.
:confused:......:rolleyes:
Where did this statement come from and what time frame? Do you have a source? Confusing and ambiguous at best.
The second sentence doesn't make sense or is out of context. Obviously the SE model underwent a styling change and was never dropped after 2000 but continued into production until at least 2003 until the 7th generation Grand Prixs were introduced. For the 2001 model year the SE got the revised front clip similar to the GT and GTP models. 2000 the 3100 V6 engine went from a VIN 'M" designation to a VIN "J" with subtle differences or improvements. HP upped to 175 by 15 HP. Also, I recall the original SE model introduced in 1997 came with a Series II 3800 engine standard and later on the 3.1L VIN "M" engine.
IMO the GM 60 degree V6 engines including the 3400 are easier to work on (maintain) and mod. And in the right platform can out perform GM cars with the Series II 3800 VIN "K" and VIN "1" engines to include much better fuel economy.
Obviously the GM engineers overlooked maintainability on the 90 degree Series II 3800 engine versus the 60 degree 3100 engine. :twak: One example is it is a lot easier to do an oil and filter change on the 3100 versus the 3800. Checking power steering fluid level "no contest" in favor of the 3100.
CrazyHorst
11-08-2009, 01:08 PM
The 3.1 (and newer 3.4L and 3.9L) have roots in the old 2.8LV6 up thru the Chevrolet divisions, there was an ironhead 3.4L version somewhere in there I think called an L34 that was used in the 9(-5 or -6) Camaro as the base engine. There's also the DOHC LQ1 variant.
The 3300 and 3800 have roots in the Buick division, eventually the projects were merged to a single engineering group responsible for both.
There's lots of ways to build an engine, some better than others. I always liked the refinement & fat torque curve of the 90deg package, the 60deg always sounds to me like a bucket of bolts with its classic Chevy loose pistons and the "flashlight" exhaust manifolds. The thing to remember is there's no free lunch....something has to be traded for something else.
The 3300 and 3800 have roots in the Buick division, eventually the projects were merged to a single engineering group responsible for both.
There's lots of ways to build an engine, some better than others. I always liked the refinement & fat torque curve of the 90deg package, the 60deg always sounds to me like a bucket of bolts with its classic Chevy loose pistons and the "flashlight" exhaust manifolds. The thing to remember is there's no free lunch....something has to be traded for something else.
BNaylor
11-08-2009, 11:34 PM
the 60deg always sounds to me like a bucket of bolts with its classic Chevy loose pistons and the "flashlight" exhaust manifolds.
I don't know about sounding like a bucket of bolts but the piston slap gets annoying for about 30 seconds but after that it sounds normal to me.
"Flashlight" exhaust manifolds? :lol:
All I see are ceramic coated headers on mine. :grinyes:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC02607.jpg
I don't know about sounding like a bucket of bolts but the piston slap gets annoying for about 30 seconds but after that it sounds normal to me.
"Flashlight" exhaust manifolds? :lol:
All I see are ceramic coated headers on mine. :grinyes:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC02607.jpg
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