Help! Dead Van! Electrical??

1996 Town and Country. 3.8 ok. So this is what happened. I'm driving along, speedometer drops to zero, van stops running, oil light comes on, and there's this repetive chime going off. I coast to a stop, put it in park, and try to start. Nothing. No noise, no click, nothing. Battery is new. Alternator tests fine. I turned the key to on position, connected a jumper cable from positive post on battery, and other end to starter mag wire. Cranks great, but won't fire. No engine lights are on. The weird thing is, if you turn the key to on position, and sit for about 30 seconds, the 'alarm set' light comes on, and stays on until you turn key off. I've never noticed that before. Also, when you arm the alarm, the light is supposed to blink. Now, it will arm, but the light stays on, no blinking. Is this related? Is the security system disabling my starting system? or am i way off here? i'm at a loss. I checked every fuse, every relay, disconnected the battery, everything. The weird part is, there's no check engine light. I'm stumped. and i need this van!! Any ideas??

I do belive your alarm is the problem. I assume you`ve already tried the old disconnecting the battery, waiting 10 minutes, and reconnecting.

yes, i did that. No luck there.

Turn the key to start and smack the dash over the instrument panel. If it comes to life you probably have the all too common cracked solder joints on instrument cluster circuit board. All too common especially on 3rd generation vans (96-00). This has to due with the data bus wiring that goes through the cluster.

yeah, did that too. No luck.

The check engine light not coming on seems key to me. When the ignition is in Key On Engine Off the check engine light should be on. Could it be you PCM that fried or some loose connection in relation to it?

Or maybe the ignition switch?

well, when you first turn the ignition switch on, the check engine light comes on briefly, then goes out. the oil light stays on. The wierd thing is, i've got no codes right now. I was hoping to maybe have a code in relation to whatever is causing the problem, to maybe steer me in the right direction. But i don't. I don't have any codes, and i should at least have a code 12, which is battery disconnect within last 50 key cycles, because it sat overnight with battery disconneced. I don't even have that code. Another weird thing is, if you disconnect/reconnect battery, then open door, the illumination ring around ignition lock cylinder works. After you turn ignition on, then off, it quits working altogether, no matter what you do, unless you disconnect/reconnect battery again. I've had probelems in the past with this van shutting down on my while driving down the road, but i'd just pull over, put it in park, and start it back up. This is the first time it's had this chime going off after it died. And it's never had the alarm set light come on when the key was in the on position for 30 seconds, like it's doing now. I'm convinced it's got something to do with the security system, but i can't find anyway to bypass it, or anything. I can't even locate a fuse or relay for the security system. I'm just at a complete loss here. I'm ready to just put a for sale sign on it.

How are you pulling your codes? If I'm not mistaken, it has an OBD II system and I don't think you can pull codes with the "key dance" on OBD II. If I'm wrong somebody please say so. I think the code 12 you were looking for is on OBD I systems.

You should be able to get a loaner OBD II reader from Advance Auto or Auto Zone.

Good luck.

well, i've gotten cel codes from the 'key dance' from which you are referring in the past. Just last week, in fact, i cycled on/off 3 times, and got a series of flashes: 1-2-5-5. 12 meaning battery disconnect within last 50 ignition cycles, and 55 meaning end of codes. But now, i cycle on/off 3 times, and i don't get anything at all. That's odd. Then i do another test, the one where you hold the trip and reset buttons on the dash, then turn ignition to on position, hold for 5 seconds. First, it says code 940. Then it says code 999. Then it goes through all the tests. Someone told me that the code 999 is normal. the code 940 means it's not getting a signal from some bus thingie? i haven't got a clue what they're talking about. i guess i'll check all my grounds. I've ruled out the solder connections on the back of the instrument cluster. I pulled it out, and they look fine. It's definetely something electrical, i just don't know how to go about pinpointing it. is it a pcm? or bcm? bad ground? ignition switch? i need help here.

Code 940-No CCD BUS Messages From Powertrain Control Module (PCM) This is saying the cluster isn't receiving needed info from the engine's brain. The cluster gets this info through the cluster connector you inspected. General practice is to retouch each solder joint securing the connector to the circuit board regardless of visible cracks. Some cracks can be tiny and tough to see with the naked eye. Might concider revisiting the connector. While there give each wire in the connector a small tug to make sure they aren't frayed inside the connector. If the PCM doesn't see required info, it won't supply the ground to the starter relay coil. You won't hear a click.

You can test the ignition switch by removing the starter relay from the PDC (underhood fuse box) and watching for 12vdc at contact #86 on the panel using a multimeter. I would slowly cycle the key to start 30 times. If you see it all 30 times then I would call the ign switch good.

Okay, thanks. I will check that out again.....errrrgggg.....I don't have a soldering gun or solder, so i'll have to go get some. Good thing they're cheap. I was eyeballing a cordless one at home depot for only $20. Made by ColdHeat. uses 4 AA batteries, and gets up to 500 degrees in less than a second. Anybody ever tried those? Will that work fine for this particular application?

You'll need to remove the circuit board from the cluster and inspect the backside of the pins for the connector.

This one happened to have a bad ground joint. If you look closely at the joint you can see the crack. A quick resolder and it was working again.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j293/airjer/clusterzoom.jpg

So i was trying to pop off the red plastic plug connecter thingie on the curcuit board, and i crushed a little diode or capacitor or resister or something accidentally. The only problem is, there's not enough of it left in the circuit board to identify what the hell it is so i can get a replacement to solder in. Whatever it is, it's in the spot labeled C2 right above the red plastic connecter. Does anybody know what goes in there?? FYI, junkyard wants $40.00 for another cluster, which might need resoldered for all i know. any help would be great. Note to self: leave the red plastic connecter the hell alone!!! lol.

well, the component that i broke happened to have just enough still connected to the board that i was able to identify it as a resistor. But i just don't know what kind to get. I don't have any way to test the resistors.

okay, i found an online 5 band resistor calculator. You input the band colors, and it gives you a value. The colors are brown, black, red, silver and silver. The values it gave me were a resistance of 1.02 ohms, and a tolerance of + or - 10. Does this sound accurate??

Alright, so i went to radioshack, and all they had were 4 band resistors. So i came back home, and did some more research. I found one calculator that was able to provide the color codes for a 4 band equivilant to the 5 band that i broke. The color code is Brown, Black, Gold, Silver. Same 1.02 ohm resistance, and tolerance of +/- 10%. So if i go back to radioshack and pick up a 4 band resistor that matches that color code, does that mean it's the same as the 5 band that i broke?? Please Help! Thanks.

If it's labled "C2" then it's definitely a cap, not a resistor. I have a board from a Gen II van and C2 is a shiny blue capacitor labeled "102K". That means it is a 1000 pF, +/- 10% tolerence capacitor. I don't know if it's the same on the Gen III van you have, but if the one you broke was a shiny blue thing, then who knows, it just may be. As a reference, C1, C23, and C25 are all the same as C2. If yours are the same as well then maybe there's a greater chance your C2 was the same too. PS they are VERY hard to read, if you have a magnefying glass use it.

Good luck.

Your resistance calculator seems right. I think you'd do OK with a 1 Ohm resistor. But are you sure it is labled "C2"???? C2 is a capacitor, not a resistor. If it was a resistor it would be labled R-something.
I know that if it has color bands it's defilintely a resistor, but labeled C2??
I'm looking at C2 and it's a cap.

well, that certainly makes sense that it would be a capacitor. I looked at the board again, and yes, the resistors are labeled with an R. But this component i broke is in spot C2, and it is shaped and looks like a resistor. But it's really tiny. It's got a yellow colored body, with 5 bands around it. Brown, black, red, silver, and silver. I did some more research online, and i did find one site that said color banded caps were used in older applications. So i'm guessing that this would be a cap, then? If so, what the heck is the value?

Your safest bet would be to just buy the junk yard board you mentioned for $40, even if you do have to re-solder it at the connector.

But if you want to play around with it here's a link that gives you cap color code info:
http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3g.htm

Good luck.

Alright, i went to the junk yard, and got a replacement circuit board. I resoldered the connector, and put it in. No change. Still no start, and the alarm light comes on after the key has been in the on position for about 20 seconds. What now? I'm at a loss here. Now i'm thinking it's the PCM, because i'm still getting the code 940 on the instrument cluster. Any ideas, anybody?

Could be something in the wiring harness? Try this thread, this guy seemed to have similar problems as you:

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=890322&highlight=alarm

Hope it helps. Good luck.

Hi GNXdreamin,
This is probably old news as you stated the 940 is a CCD bus problem, I only wanted to confirm that the alarm light staying on is also an indication of the same problem... here is a quote.....
"If the VTSS indicator lamp comes on after ignition ON and stays on, the CCD bus communication with the powertrain control module possibly has been lost."
So with the code and the light pointing to a communication loss problem maybe this will narrow down the problem, going to do some more research.
Good luck,
Bob

after doing some research, i've found that some vehicles equipped with vehicle theft security system are also equipped with what's called a central timer module (CTM) which gives the "okay to start" signal to the PCM. If the CTM is bad, the vehicle will not start, and also in turn give the impression that the PCM is bad. I was considering replacing my PCM, but now i'm not so sure. Does this information apply to the town and country? does my van have this CTM? and if it does, where is it located?

This may also be old news but I dont see it anywhere in the thread...

"The VTSS will prevent the engine from starting until the BCM receives a disarm signal"

Have you tried disarming the system per your owners manual?
Still digging...
Bob

yes, i tried disarming the system several times. I tried disconnecting the battery. I can't seem to gain any ground here. I can jump the starter at the starter relay, and it will crank, but won't fire.

OK GNXdreamin,
Here is a touch more info, have you tried this disarming method or just with the remote?
This method is for a 1998, hopefully they are the same.

"Enabling
To initialize the VTSS feature the operator must, with the engine compartment hood open, cycle the key in the liftgate key cylinder to the unlock position giving the BCM a disarm signal. At this time the visual alarm outputs the headlamps and marker lamps will function. However the audio alarm output the horn and engine disable portion of the VTSS will not function until there has been twenty consecutive engine run cycles. When this has occurred the total VTSS will function."

This next line would indicate disconnecting the battery wont really help...
"The current VTSS status armed or disarmed shall be maintained in memory to prevent battery disconnects from disarming the system."
Will continues digging after the dentist
Bob

well folks, looks like the problem has been solved. The van got put on the back burner there for a while, but i got back to it today, and turns out it was a bad PCM. I got one from a junk yard for $50, put it in, and it started. Holy crap, i'm so relieved. So just thought i'd let you all know. Thanks so much to all of you for your advice and input on the matter. Till next time............

It's the component everyone does their best to avoid. In your case, it turned out to be the worst case scenario but wow, did you ever luck out on finding that $50 PCM. Many junkyards pull them and send them to computer fix it shops for resale. I probably don't even need to say this but generally a new PCM has to be programed with your vans VIN number and updated but if it's running great why bother. Great job!

Well, i thought i was going to be able to get a pcm for only $35 from another junk yard. It's an old school junkyard called U-Pull and Save. You pay $1.00 to get into the lot, and find your part. They only charge $35 per electronic / computer related part. I found about 10-12 vans that were similar to mine (Caravan, T&C, Voyager), but none of them were equipped with the 3.8. They all had 3.0 or 3.3 But i got on Craigslist and found this one for $50 out of a 98 Caravan. The only problem i've noticed is that now this one is plugged in, i'm getting a code 31, which is a bad evaporator purge solenoid circuit or driver. When the van is running, in park, at an idle, the solenoid is clicking at a rapid fire pace. It's not supposed to do that. I just unplugged the darn thing. I figured no sense in burning the thing out. I figured the van i got the pcm from may have had a slight difference in the evap system as mine is. The point is, it's running now. Maybe later i'll take it out and have it reporogrammed or flashed or whatever.