Painting tips

Whats up guys. It seems that everytime I paint a model, no matter how much care I take comes out rough. Here are some samples. . . .
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f225/miklomeza/5blueek9.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f225/miklomeza/delslopastic.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f225/miklomeza/rhdcrxplastic.jpg

I use etch it with 1000 grit. Primer with tamiya. Light sand primer with 1000 grit. I spray from an arms distance with tamiya paint. I heat the paint and wait bout 10min between coats. I use a large cardboard box and place the model inside when painting. I even wet down all the walls of the box. No matter what I do, they almost always come out with this. I tried wetsanding but its impossible to get it all. Any suggestions?

1000 really isn't enough for the paint to be smooth. Also spraying at arm's length sounds too much. It should be about 6-8 inches away from the model. Invest in some polishing compounds (Tamiya/Meguiar's etc) and maybe some Micromesh polishing pads as they go up from 1500 to 12000 grit to get the paint really smooth. Check out the tutorials section as there's a great one there about painting and polishing.

I agree, it sounds like you are spraying too far away. With your next model try painting a little closer. 8-12" works for me. Also you want to lay down a few mist coats, and then one or two wetter (thicker) coats. Becareful because you might spray more than enough and develop drips.

Your orange peel isn't bad, you still can get a nice glossy surface. You just have to wetsand and polish the body up like kev stated. Trial and error, and good luck.

In addition to the steps you are already taking, watch this Tamiya demonstration video (http://www.tamiya.com/english/scale/beginner2/2.htm) to get an idea of the closness and speed you want to aim for. Arms length is WAY to far IMHO.

Also check out Alex's painting tutorials on Italianhorses.net (http://italianhorses.net/Tutorials/tutorials.htm) where he gives great advice on prepping, painting, polishing, waxing etc..

Other than speed and closeness, tempreature etc., one of the most important factors is remembering to fight that evil inclination to try and cover the body all in one session - a recipe for disaster when using spray cans IMHO.

1000 grit is good to even rough spots, but does not produce a smooth surface. When you have a rough paint, you should reach grade 2000 at least (800->1000->1200->1500->2000) before using polishing compound. If the surface is smooth already you may need 3200 or higher in some spots then either wax or polish (again, depending on the surface quality you have). Needless to say you will never get shiny finish is the paint is not saturated. Too few paint layers will never create the desired finish.

check out this tuto (http://www.briansmodelcars.com/tutorials/tutorial/114), good luck.

Looks like too much paint, sprayed from too far away. It partially dried before it reached the surface, causing that pebbly effect.

Spray closer - seven inches - and move the nozzle quickly. Too little paint is better than too much, so keep that nozzle moving. With Tamiya TS, the time between coats is not a worry, unless there are defects that need to be sanded. I always wait at least 8 -12 hours before sanding or polishing TS.

You're going to be sanding and polishing the surface, and that means a risk of burn-through. So you need to apply enough paint, especially to "high spots" and edges. But don't try to do it all in one coat. Several light coats are much better than one or two thick ones.

If you've sprayed correctly, you'll have little or no orange peel, and 2000 grit will be the only grit you'll need. Wet-sand with the 2000 until you've removed every bit of texture you can. As you sand, keep drying the area so you can see clearly whether any texture remains. Once you've flattened the surface, use Tamiya Coarse to start the polishing process.

(IMO, TC is much more efficient than those ultra-fine, multi-stage polishing pads. You could actually go straight from spraying to TC, but wet-sanding saves a lot of time.)

As you're compounding, frequently check the surface with an Optivisor or magnifying glass. If you see left-over paint texture, it's okay to go back and hit the area again with 2000 grit.

Once you've gotten a soft overall gloss, polish it off with Tamiya Fine. If you want even more gloss, go to Tamiya Finish.

Ddms

Looking at the pictures you provided, in particular the red Honda you need to lay the paint on a little wetter and also spray nearer to the model. By wetter I don't mean a big, thick, heavy coat. It takes practice but you should be able to spray a nice wet even coat without runs or sags and without laying the paint on too thickly. You need to reach the 'magic' moment where the paint is wet enough to be glossy and smooth but not so wet that it runs. If you can reach that moment you will have very little need for sanding and will just need some light compound and polishing.

Steve is right; ideally, the last coat ought to be wet enough so there's no orange peel and you can go directly to polish. But that takes some practice; when you spray wet coats, there's a greater risk of sags and runs.

For most models, the time to paint, wet-sand and polish the car body is while everything is still in pieces, before anything is attached to anything else. The cab, hood and deck - anything that's "body color" - should be painted, sanded and polished as separate parts.

Instead of struggling to fix those cars in the pictures, it might be a better use of your time to start fresh with a new kit. If you're like most of us, you have several that are just begging to be built.

Ddms

Thanks alot for the advise. I really appreciate it. I am currently doing a spoon Integra Type R and really don't want to jack it up. I am going to try closer and hopefully it works out. Really appreciate it guys.

Steve is right; ideally, the last coat ought to be wet enough so there's no orange peel and you can go directly to polish. But that takes some practice; when you spray wet coats, there's a greater risk of sags and runs. Ddms

That just about sums up what I was trying to say. I am a firm believer that you can mist coat all day and use compounds to produce a really nice gloss finish. But it takes a lot of work with the compound. If you can practice your technique and be able to apply wet coats, nice and smooth without getting runs and sags, you will leave yourself a lot less work with the polishing. It's only practice. Once you get the painting technique correct, you will be able to create nice paint jobs time after time. Using the correct paints, correctly thinned, with the right air pressure helps enormously as well.

Thank alot guys. I also have one last question as well. I have tamiya "fine" primer, and regular tamiya primer. What's the difference? How does it affect my paint?

Hi!

The regular primer is a little thicker (covers more scratches from sanding). The fine is, obviously then, a little thinner. If you have to do alot of work on a body or part and re-prime often. It´s good to use the fine primer as you will get less buildup that can ruin surface detail.

What primer you use does´nt affect the outcome of your paintjob that much as long as it´s compatible with the paint you´re putting over it.

The important thing is to have a very smooth and even surface BEFORE applying the paint and in between layers. Wetsanding the primer lightly with #2000 wet´n´dry sandpaper will get you a nice and smooth surface for the paint. Then spray about 3 thin layers of paint and two thicker "wetter" layers. With some practice you will get good paintjobs in notime.

Also you can try to heat your cans a bit before spraying, this will get the pressure up in the can and generate a better finish and flow. Put the can in some warm (NOT very hot) for a minute or two. Then spray...

Hope this helps!

Emil

oh ok. I usually sand the body after primer just not wetsanding. I'll try that then. I always heat up the bottles too. works out.

You guys are great, thanks for the great responses.

oh ok. I usually sand the body after primer just not wetsanding

both ways work just fine, but I´ve found that wetsanding makes it possible to get an even smoother finish.

Just remember to clean the model afterwards under the tap with an old toothbrush or similar and some detergent to get rid of all the sanding residue.


Cheers!

Emil

both ways work just fine, but I´ve found that wetsanding makes it possible to get an even smoother finish.

Just remember to clean the model afterwards under the tap with an old toothbrush or similar and some detergent to get rid of all the sanding residue.

Yep, the soapy wash-up is essential. And since the car is going to get wet anyway, why not wet-sand? One of the problems with dry-sanding is that clogged paper can make deep scratches. Another is that dry sanding makes dust, and who wants to breathe primer dust?

OTOH, I think 2000 might be a bit of overkill for sanding primer. One-thousand grit works fine for me; I only use 2000 for sanding down OP and other defects in the final coat. But this definitely a... fine point. :sleep:

Ddms

Your biggest problem is using that lousy acrylic paint, better chuck all that rubbish in the bin where it belongs.

You want good coverage and excellent gloss finish, with just TWO coats of paint, that's primer and finish gloss coat, with all the detail showing thru crisply and clearly, with NO BLEED THRU of the base colour either, then learn to use enamel paints.

For all those that are goint to bag this lot, I'll ask that before they post any crud remarks, that they have at least tried to use enamel paints before posting.

Now, if you, or anybody else is really interested in learning how to achieve these results, then ask civil questions and they will be answered civily.

Just think about this lot, an average coverage when using acrylic paint sprayed onto any surface, will be about 0.010 thousands of an inch thick. Don't believe it, go get a razor blade/scalpel blade and cut straight down into a junk bit that has been blasted with acrylic paint and you'll start to see how thick it really is.

Now, think about a coat of enamel paint, any thicker than 0.002/3 thousands of an inch and it will start to run/sag when wet, it dries out even thinner than that and the coverage is even better then acylic paint.


Please answer these questions, if anybody decides to bag this posting.

What was acrylic paint designed for, in the first place ?

What sort of paint has been used for decades, possibly centuries, before acrylic paint was ever invented ?

Want some more good info, then just ask.

Mark

I know from experience that getting a good dust free finish with enamels is not easy.

Got any picture examples you'd care to share with us (if that's a civil question)?

For all those that are goint to bag this lot, I'll ask that before they post any crud remarks, that they have at least tried to use enamel paints before posting.

Now, if you, or anybody else is really interested in learning how to achieve these results, then ask civil questions and they will be answered civily.

I think we've already stepped beyond civil here.

Step back mate, take a deep breath, and take your blood pressure meds. If you can come back calm and without the attitude, you can play here. It doesn't belong here- please take it elsewhere.

What was acrylic paint designed for, in the first place ?

What sort of paint has been used for decades, possibly centuries, before acrylic paint was ever invented ?


None of that matters. What matters is how well a particular paint works on styrene models, here and now, in the 21st century.

If you know how to use them, you can get great results with acrylics, enamels, urethanes or lacquers. Personally, I think the easiest and quickest way to get great results is not with enamels, but with spray-can lacquers.

Despite your acrimonious 'Strain attitude, I have to agree that acrylics cover poorly so they have to be applied thicker. But they seem safer because they're water-based, and they don't smell as strong. I have a hunch that many spouses like them better for that reason. If it's a choice between not modeling and using acrylics, use acrylics!

Some great modelers use enamels. But they do dry slower and collect bugs and dust. And are more likely to sag and run than lacquers. So, especially in humid climates, they require more equipment, e.g., a dehydrator, and more skill. That's why Donn Yost (commercial plug!) is able to sell instructional CDs on the subject.

If I can't find just the right Tamiya spray-can lacquer color, I use a urethane color coat cleared with U-POL (synthetic lacquer). The urethane requires more safety precautions, but the results are terrific. And I don't have to use the same old colors over and over.

Anyhow, different strokes, hey? No need to get all het up about it.

Ddms

I use an ancient Chinese paint mix that uses pigs blood and shellac.
When it dries/cures it is 0.0000000000microns thick and impervious to even kryptonite although it has some issues with Cilit Bang fumes and if you shout it, it tends to go into a sulk.

All it takes is a little practice and soon you'll be painting like a pro as I do, although you do still have to maintain a low volume around the model afterwards.

I use an ancient Chinese paint mix that uses pigs blood and shellac.
When it dries/cures it is 0.0000000000microns thick and impervious to even kryptonite although it has some issues with Cilit Bang fumes and if you shout it, it tends to go into a sulk.

All it takes is a little practice and soon you'll be painting like a pro as I do, although you do still have to maintain a low volume around the model afterwards.

:lol:

I use an ancient Chinese paint mix that uses pigs blood and shellac.
When it dries/cures it is 0.0000000000microns thick and impervious to even kryptonite although it has some issues with Cilit Bang fumes and if you shout it, it tends to go into a sulk.

All it takes is a little practice and soon you'll be painting like a pro as I do, although you do still have to maintain a low volume around the model afterwards.

:rofl: :thumbsup:

I would like to suggest a new sub-section to AF MOTY: Post of the Year (affectionately known as the POTTY award)

this would be my candidate for first place. Awesome! Lol

:worshippy

I had to look up Cillit Bang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cillit_Bang). :rolleyes: