More Power!!!!!!!!!1

Hey guys, i am hoping to buy myself a maxima, prolly 97-99 SE standard. I want to kno , 1.) whats the max hp i can get w/o using nos and if any engine swaps can be performed, like a RB26DETT or something with more spunk then 190 hp, i will hopefully have around 6-7k to spend on parts so tell me what i should get or what wuold be the best buy's, plz let me know, thanks

Well, you can take your pick on Intakes. I personally went with Place racing's CAI with the K&N actual air filter but some say the regular intake works for them. Your Choice.... Y-pipe will add good power as well freeing up some restriction. You can then go B-pipe and Cat ( adds a little power but everything helps). Spark plugs must be changed. You can then add either a Supercharger or Turbo depending on what you wanna spend. Dude just check out www.customaxima.com!!!:D

for higher gains nitrous would prob be the cheapest to get done compared to SC or TC

What about propaine? I head that can give a 25-33% boost in power since it help cool the engine down.

Originally posted by Maxima Lover
Hey guys, i am hoping to buy myself a maxima, prolly 97-99 SE standard. I want to kno , 1.) whats the max hp i can get w/o using nos and if any engine swaps can be performed, like a RB26DETT or something with more spunk then 190 hp, i will hopefully have around 6-7k to spend on parts so tell me what i should get or what wuold be the best buy's, plz let me know, thanks

Sorry bro, you can't put a RB26DETT in a Maxima. It is built for an AWD chassis and just plain won't fit. You see, engine swaps are pointless in a Maxima because they are built to perform well right out of the factory. Engine swaps are for civics and accords to toy around with(even though most of them can't break into 14's even with one:rolleyes: ).

get a turbo, y-pipe, exhaust, intake, new ecu(obviously), udp, flywheel, you will be able to get around(or over) 300fwhp for that much cash

thats a new one on me

Originally posted by deadmaninc
What about propaine? I head that can give a 25-33% boost in power since it help cool the engine down.

I'm new to this forum so I don't know if you're being sarcastic. Are you?

i think propanes more used in turbo diesels.

Propane on a Diesel is like NOS on a gasoline engine.

Go y-pipe - Budget Exhaust in Canada, high flow cat and cat back exhaust, and a CAI, this package is a very inexpensive way to get an additional 40 - 50 hp.

Originally posted by SkyMaxDad
Propane on a Diesel is like NOS on a gasoline engine.

Go y-pipe - Budget Exhaust in Canada, high flow cat and cat back exhaust, and a CAI, this package is a very inexpensive way to get an additional 40 - 50 hp.


More like 25-30.

Originally posted by SkyMaxDad
Propane on a Diesel is like NOS on a gasoline engine.

Go y-pipe - Budget Exhaust in Canada, high flow cat and cat back exhaust, and a CAI, this package is a very inexpensive way to get an additional 40 - 50 hp.
if you run propane on a diesel you can still run nos on top of that. you can get a good 150+ hp with a propane/nitrous hook up

you probably won't get 40-50 hp but you'll get a lot. the budget y adds 18 fwhp and 19 lbs/torque. the intake/exhaust is good for a decent amount more and a freeflow cat really doesn't do shit, maybe a couple horses.

it's hard to say how much power you'll get from mods. you can't just add up a bunch of numbers and say that's how much power you have.

If you are going to put in a new y-pipe and a cat back, you may as well spend the $80 US for a new highflow cat (Budget exhaust), you will probably have to use a torch to remove the rusted connecting bolts and if it is pre 97 there will be a few clogged passageways.

Even though it doesn't do "shit" it is worth doing given the level of changes you undertake doing the exhaust. We disected our 96 and found out 10% of the passageways were clogged.

If you want to debate "adding up numbers", then get serious and realize that these exhaust mods do not add any hp to the engine. These mods only let the hp being produced by the engine to be direct towards the wheels rather than against itself.

Originally posted by SkyMaxDad

If you want to debate "adding up numbers", then get serious and realize that these exhaust mods do not add any hp to the engine. These mods only let the hp being produced by the engine to be direct towards the wheels rather than against itself.

you said 40-50 hp increase. not me

Originally posted by Paonessa



it's hard to say how much power you'll get from mods. you can't just add up a bunch of numbers and say that's how much power you have.

You'd be surprised how many people on Af do this:rolleyes:

alright, dont be bitches. jus move on.:smoka:

Originally posted by 97wvmax
alright, dont be bitches. jus move on.:smoka:

No, I'm agreeing with you dude. The roll eyes are for the people that do it:rolleyes: Not you!!!

Come on man, you know I don't play them hoe games. I don't send indirect messages. I'm saying theres alot of people who get a mod for there car and read up on it online and just start adding up numbers

SkyMax dude is right >>>> adding bolt-on exhaust/intake toys are fun but they do not add engine h.p., they only "free up" what power the engine inherently already has but is being choked-up by the factory restrictions. same goes for hi-perf flywheels and clutches: they simply "facilitate" or "enable" the engine to express itself more freely. actual horsepower to the wheels is often much less than the "benchmark" of what it is rated, eg., the "280 hp" G35 coupe prolly only puts about 240, plus or minus, of that to the pavement. the rest is lost in wasted energy battling friction and slippage and restrictive factory devices.

real h.p. gains to the engine happen when you tear it apart and replace internals like cams, rods, pistons, or add turbo or other forced-induction devices. this means spending lots of money. there is no free lunch when it comes to modding, not really.

i have the CAI/y-pipe (on a 3rd gen Maxima) and everything-to-the-back setup. it DOES make a big difference, btw. yet i find myself always yearning for more power. nothing is ever good enough short of redoing the whole engine (but that is just me).

presently, i'm on a quest for the VG30ET, a VE30DE VLSD tranny, race clutch and flywheel >>> a significant power upgrade package to the puny 160 hp. stock benchmark i got. and i will build it up so phat. then i'm on to my 240SX/S14 project: gonna prolly do the SR20DET in that. or i may turbo the KA. don't know yet. SR revs higher as it has shorter stroke. prolly more fun. plus it has the "JDM" bragging rights going for it.

actually, intake does add real hp to the engine, considering it forces more air into the engine than the stocker does

yeah and who the hell dyno's at the crank anyway? exhaust mods= increased f(r)whp

thnx alot for your advice guys, but one thing, personally, in my opinion, nos is for cheaters/losers. i mean come on, i want raw power, and just for curiosity, whats the biggest/ most powerful turbo that can be put into a max???

Originally posted by Maxima Lover
thnx alot for your advice guys, but one thing, personally, in my opinion, nos is for cheaters/losers. i mean come on, i want raw power, and just for curiosity, whats the biggest/ most powerful turbo that can be put into a max???

yeah, i have always felt the same way about NOS, i would much rather go forced induction. i think the T3/T4 hybrid is the best turbo you can get, lots of guys running over 300fwhp with that bad boy

yeah. CAI technically does "up" the hp, as it is a type of forced-induction, pre-combustion device. the air is denser going into the manifold. .

the rest, as far as i see it, is not an "additive." the hi-flow exhaust stuff, like the y-pipe, is more of a liberator of inherent hp. i don't see how it adds anything. it facilitates the engine to use more of the horsepower it already has. like a lightweight flywheel and dual-friction clutch: those don't add jack sh*t --they make the engine more efficient. the result is more horsepower to the wheels, which is awesome, but not to the crank.

the question now is this >>> what if you replaced the crank pulley with a lightweight one? technically, that liberates the crank to spin more freely, like the lightweight flywheel idea, but is it considered an "additive" or a "liberator" of horsepower? i think it is a "liberator" as well, as the pulley is post-combustion.

Originally posted by bonzelite
yeah. CAI technically does "up" the hp, as it is a type of forced-induction, pre-combustion device. the air is denser going into the manifold. .

the rest, as far as i see it, is not an "additive." the hi-flow exhaust stuff, like the y-pipe, is more of a liberator of inherent hp. i don't see how it adds anything. it facilitates the engine to use more of the horsepower it already has. like a lightweight flywheel and dual-friction clutch: those don't add jack sh*t --they make the engine more efficient. the result is more horsepower to the wheels, which is awesome, but not to the crank.

the question now is this >>> what if you replaced the crank pulley with a lightweight one? technically, that liberates the crank to spin more freely, like the lightweight flywheel idea, but is it considered an "additive" or a "liberator" of horsepower? i think it is a "liberator" as well, as the pulley is post-combustion.

there are two different places HP is measured. one is at the crank, the other is at the wheels. as paonessa said, exhaust mods and "post-combutsion" mods don't change crank HP, but they do change wheel HP, by getting MORE HP to the wheels, thus increasin wheel horsepower

got it. i began seeing the difference. it seems a lot of people who post things relating to horsepower do not specify what type. i have seen "....i payed a million rubles and did jackety jack blah blah blah to my car and now it has 500 h.p.... blah blah".

if the car has blah blah blah horsepower but it is being lost before it hits the pavement, then the number is very misleading. like the VE30DE is rated at "190 hp" but that seems like bullsh*t to me: you do not really get that. i mean, you do and you don't. if you have that "benchmark" but the flywheel weighs 700 lbs., then you experience the thrill of about 24 hp. to the wheels.

i imagine what really matters is how much is being put to the ground, because that is what is lastly felt and experienced. i still feel that noteworthy rises in horsepower happen when you start porting, honing, boring-out, turboing, upping the injector's cc's, chipping, etc...

bolt-ons seem like a gateway to that. but not a cure.

I've learned not to put too much faith into hp numbers. my friends Cl type s has 70 more hp and 25 lbs torque over my car. however his car weighs 3400 lbs and he has the hp robbing trip-tronic tranny. by the time he puts the power to the ground and his heavy ass car makes use of it,all said and done, he's not much farther ahead of me(stock vs stock). now with my intake, y pipe and cat-back i can beat him even though my car still aint making 260 hp at the crank or the wheels. my other friend has a 92 dx honda civic with a jdm b18c(civic SiRII) engine in it and even he can beat the acura with his 176 hp. hell he can probably beat me too.

it's not about who has the most power, like bonz said it's who puts it to the ground best. and a nice power/weight ratio doesn't hurt.

nice, and its cheap 2, hmmm, some1 told me that to put twin turbos in a car it has 2 b 6 cyl. or bigger, is that true? and can i put TT's in a maxy?

No, i don't think TT fits, lots of argument over this. go to turbomaxima.com

Originally posted by Paonessa
I've learned not to put too much faith into hp numbers. my friends Cl type s has 70 more hp and 25 lbs torque over my car. however his car weighs 3400 lbs and he has the hp robbing trip-tronic tranny. by the time he puts the power to the ground and his heavy ass car makes use of it,all said and done, he's not much farther ahead of me(stock vs stock). now with my intake, y pipe and cat-back i can beat him even though my car still aint making 260 hp at the crank or the wheels. my other friend has a 92 dx honda civic with a jdm b18c(civic SiRII) engine in it and even he can beat the acura with his 176 hp. hell he can probably beat me too.

it's not about who has the most power, like bonz said it's who puts it to the ground best. and a nice power/weight ratio doesn't hurt.

Yea, Ive been thinking about it, and it seems to me the best money spent for acceleration after y-pipe and probably intake are very light 15" wheels. (course it dont look that good until WOT)

if you can save 8 pounds/wheel thats 32 pounds, but its said that a factor of 8 works on wheel weight when considering moment of inertia. That means you can reduce your apparent weight by 256 pounds! Thats like adding 16 HP to a stock 96. Its got to compliment the HP mods NICELY... I wish I could afford these 11 pound pups.

Originally posted by Spaniard


Yea, Ive been thinking about it, and it seems to me the best money spent for acceleration after y-pipe and probably intake are very light 15" wheels. (course it dont look that good until WOT)

if you can save 8 pounds/wheel thats 32 pounds, but its said that a factor of 8 works on wheel weight when considering moment of inertia. That means you can reduce your apparent weight by 256 pounds! Thats like adding 16 HP to a stock 96. Its got to compliment the HP mods NICELY... I wish I could afford these 11 pound pups.

yeah, how the hell you gonna accelerate then??? those wheel will be way too light, and you'll smoke em, easy

a good point. But it seems that the actual weight loss in terms of creating friction (down force) is not subject to the 8x factor, so you kinda get the best of both worlds. But you are right, the wheels will accelerate alot faster, there will be somewhat less weight, and you will have to deal with spinning alot easier: that will be a negative impact. hmm!

Originally posted by thrasher


yeah, how the hell you gonna accelerate then??? those wheel will be way too light, and you'll smoke em, easy

Launch at a lower RPM and gently apply gas.

Lighter IS better!

Originally posted by Bluebird from the


Launch at a lower RPM and gently apply gas.

Lighter IS better!

Not always. There has to be some weight put to the ground or you will spin like a mo-fo.

Originally posted by Bluebird from the


Launch at a lower RPM and gently apply gas.

Lighter IS better!

gently apply gas?? that's weak and no fun. i want to be able to stomp on the gas and not worry about breaking out the tires, especially in a 200hp front driver. not to mention 15's would look like shit on a Max. get more power and heavier wheels, and then you wil be good to go

hmmm. this is interesting. it seems that lighter is better, as race-cars strive to shed pounds >>> but only to a point.

if, say, the flywheel is TOO light, then the rpm's will fade while in gear. no mass, no inertia, no momentum. no speed. but, if balanced with other elements, and balanced just light ENOUGH, the flywheel being lighter will create easier launches epecially with a hi-grip clutch. and lighter, unsprung weight, like rims, does matter. i think that if you had larger diameter rims, the rims would also need to grow >>> wider. and the wider rubber will have a greater contact patch with the pavement all-around than narrower tires. the air volume within the tire must remain nearly the same. therefore, the wider the wheel/tire, the shorter the "aspect" of the tire. the smaller the wheel, the "taller" the tire is. but the manufacturer must strive to keep the air pressure relatively the same. it must be or the tire will come apart if it is lower-profile but not wider.

Volk TE-37's, one of the most popular wheels, for example, are wider than stock, lighter than stock, and generally better-looking. so that seems to be a case-in-point.

also, if the unsprung weight of lighter wheels is balanced with more rigid suspension, those parts also being lighter, then the car is more nimble and energy is not wasted in body-flex. thence, more horsepower is used to propel the car forward. not for twisting the body's metal around.

also, decreasing the stroke while replacing the internals with forged titanium or whatnot will enable the engine to rev higher into the powerband, more quickly, and generate more power. a possible sacrifice in this scenario is low-end torque. but that can somewhat be overcome by boring out the engine's ports and cylinders,angling the valves, and by dialing-in a turbo system to come spool-up at a lower rpm range.

a problem with FWD, though, is the rearward weight-transfer that happens, lightening the front end and spinning the wheels.

VLSD can help this to a point, but FWD is going to spin no matter what. i'd go with stickier tires. not necessarily heavier ones. in my view, reducing unsprung weight even on FWD is a good tactic. the overall benefits outweigh the cons.

Originally posted by Pick


Not always. There has to be some weight put to the ground or you will spin like a mo-fo.

No, lighter wheels are better. That weight that you're talking about would come in the form of the 3000 lb car sitting on top of those rims in question.

Originally posted by thrasher


gently apply gas?? that's weak and no fun. i want to be able to stomp on the gas and not worry about breaking out the tires, especially in a 200hp front driver. not to mention 15's would look like shit on a Max. get more power and heavier wheels, and then you wil be good to go

If thats the case then why don't you just get chrome 20's. You won't be able to break those loose but I guarantee they'll increase your ET's, in much the same way that lighter wheels will decrease them.

And yes, 15's will look bad. That why you just get two of them from a junkyard and use them as your track wheels/tires.

No, I remember reading an article by a guy with a 430 horse max. He said he wish he had kept his stock rims instead of opting for the lighter rims. It was something about the amount of spin allowed by lighter rims.

Originally posted by Bluebird from the

And yes, 15's will look bad. That why you just get two of them from a junkyard and use them as your track wheels/tires.
keep in mind the 4th gens come stock with 15's and they look fine

it appears the opinions on this one are very polarized. how about this >>> go for lighter custom wheels, then put a big winch on the front of the maxima like on a big 4 X 4. then add lead weights to that. this way, everyone gets what they want. :cool:

Originally posted by bonzelite
it appears the opinions on this one are very polarized. how about this >>> go for lighter custom wheels, then put a big winch on the front of the maxima like on a big 4 X 4. then add lead weights to that. this way, everyone gets what they want. :cool:

the whole point of heavier wheels is that they require more force to turn. why do high HP cars have huge wheels? because if they didn't, they'd smoke the shit out of em. old musclecars with small wheels could sit and burn rubber all day. put a 911 turbo or a Modena on 15's, and see what happens

for the record, i like stock maxima SE wheels. they look great, actually. i still use mine.

of course, if you had a 900 hp car with wheels that weighed 1 lb. each, then, yes, they are nearly useless wheels.

but is this not application specific? if you want to drag race, then heavy may be good. what about auto-x? i doubt anyone would prefer heavier wheels for that, especially for FWD cars that have inherent annoying understeer. why do manufacturers of race wheels make them light?

Originally posted by bonzelite
for the record, i like stock maxima SE wheels. they look great, actually. i still use mine.

of course, if you had a 900 hp car with wheels that weighed 1 lb. each, then, yes, they are nearly useless wheels.

but is this not application specific? if you want to drag race, then heavy may be good. what about auto-x? i doubt anyone would prefer heavier wheels for that, especially for FWD cars that have inherent annoying understeer. why do manufacturers of race wheels make them light?

me too, i like stock max SE wheels a lot...especially the TE ones:D
yeah, i'm just making the point that lighter doesn't always mean better when it comes to wheels

Wow, good thread. I just wanted to mention a couple of things.
1) all of the responses make excellent points.
2) I gotta think the 3000 pounds of the car is more than enough to provide the downforce for traction, right on Bluebird.
3) It seems to me that the larger heavier rims just put the burden of the acceleration on the tires. (and indirectly on the driver- you have to really know what you are doing to max out the acceleration potential in a high HP car by going with light rims. This is because light rims have less inertia, and will much more easily respond (and break loose) to a stab on the gas or a drop of the clutch.
4) 15" wheels are not pretty. But I am autocrossing and have not got >210 HP so right bonzelight, light is what works for my needs. Well thats all off the top. Cheers

Uh, huh heh
I got the first part of #3 backwards, sorry. I suppose I could break it down like this:

Basically, you would need awesome tires to be able to keep up with the acceleration that a light small wheel can deliver. (partly via lack of inertia)

So if you have 240 HP + light (and/or 15") wheels + merely average tires, and want to push, you might not be able to avoid breaking loose at full throttle through much of the rpm range. (!) But with good tires and light wheels you have a chance to achieve greater acceleration, simple as that, no? Anyways, Cheers

yes. the more we think this out, the more i think weight-to-wheels is application specific, as i wax redundant. the kind of wheels/tires will be chosen according to what you set your car up for. and there are always compromises in every setup. there is no free lunch, as it were. i mean, i usually spin my wheels, with stockies, when turning left at traffic lights that just turned yellow or red, as the car leans into the turn. i can modulate the clutch and gas to minimize it, as i have caught on to the way my car acts under hard acceleration on the street, but it is difficult to completely cancel it out.

in my guesstimation, as one remedy, if i swapped my tranny out, not the wheels, but if i just had the VE tranny with VLSD, my wheels would grip better even if i had sh*tty wheels. with an open-diff of the VG, one wheel ends up being burdened as the front-end lightens up when the weight shifts to the rear under acceleration. at a traffic light to turn left or right, if that one wheel happens to be the inside one, then it is even lighter than the outside front wheel, having even less grip. so, then, the lonely one powering wheel busts loose because it is higher off the tarmac and not getting any assistance from anything else. in this sceario, it is wheel/tire/tranny/driver-"centric." even if the driving wheel were the outside one and there was VLSD present, the power-spin of the higher inside wheel would provide some assistance and perhaps lessen the duration of both wheels spinning, especially if the tires were rated "grippier."

and body-lean, or roll, can be minimized at turns if the anti-sway bars are replaced with beefier ones, and if the center of gravity of the whole f**king car were dropped. stiffer suspension, too, will minimize the front-end from lifting up during the rearward weight transfer - the enemy of FWD. this promotes contact with the pavement. and wider wheels/tires create automatically a greater surface area for "bite." i think wheels and tires alone can make a difference, but remedy only so far before other measures must be taken.

maybe i am thinking about this too much.

as spaniard pointed out, there are valid points to all of these posts. ones to heed when choosing the 'ol rolling stock.

Originally posted by bonzelite
yes. the more we think this out, the more i think weight-to-wheels is application specific, as i wax redundant. the kind of wheels/tires will be chosen according to what you set your car up for. and there are always compromises in every setup. there is no free lunch, as it were. i mean, i usually spin my wheels, with stockies, when turning left at traffic lights that just turned yellow or red, as the car leans into the turn. i can modulate the clutch and gas to minimize it, as i have caught on to the way my car acts under hard acceleration on the street, but it is difficult to completely cancel it out.

in my guesstimation, as one remedy, if i swapped my tranny out, not the wheels, but if i just had the VE tranny with VLSD, my wheels would grip better even if i had sh*tty wheels. with an open-diff of the VG, one wheel ends up being burdened as the front-end lightens up when the weight shifts to the rear under acceleration. at a traffic light to turn left or right, if that one wheel happens to be the inside one, then it is even lighter than the outside front wheel, having even less grip. so, then, the lonely one powering wheel busts loose because it is higher off the tarmac and not getting any assistance from anything else. in this sceario, it is wheel/tire/tranny/driver-"centric." even if the driving wheel were the outside one and there was VLSD present, the power-spin of the higher inside wheel would provide some assistance and perhaps lessen the duration of both wheels spinning, especially if the tires were rated "grippier."

and body-lean, or roll, can be minimized at turns if the anti-sway bars are replaced with beefier ones, and if the center of gravity of the whole f**king car were dropped. stiffer suspension, too, will minimize the front-end from lifting up during the rearward weight transfer - the enemy of FWD. this promotes contact with the pavement. and wider wheels/tires create automatically a greater surface area for "bite." i think wheels and tires alone can make a difference, but remedy only so far before other measures must be taken.

maybe i am thinking about this too much.

as spaniard pointed out, there are valid points to all of these posts. ones to heed when choosing the 'ol rolling stock.

i have VLSD on my car, and it still isn't enough to combat wheel spin under hard acceleration. in a straight line, at WOT, my tires break loose with all the torque. granted, part of this can be attributed to the shitty no-grip tires, but if i were to go s/c or turbo, anything short of slicks wouldn't be good enough, i would need heavier wheels to require more force to turn without slippage

Yup, thread gets better an better.

Thrasher, I dont think VSLD will help you noticeably in straight line acceleration at all, unless rainy or snowy or other more rare circumstances such as a disproportionate weight distribution between driver side and passenger side. But I bet you can hammer turns out nice and if you get some wide grippy ones you could 'A-team' alot of ppl buh bye :wave:

Cheers

hey, a question occurred to me- along the lines of there is no free lunch VSLD must lower total potential top torque transmitted to the wheels for the (niice) ability to adjust the amount, right? Anyone know if so / how much? is it substantial?

Originally posted by Paonessa

keep in mind the 4th gens come stock with 15's



Mine came on 16's.

Originally posted by Paonessa

and they look fine

No they don't.

well, bluebird, my 95 came on 15's and they definitely look fine. you're entitled to your opiniion, however wrong it may be. most any stock nissan wheels look fine as long as there isn't a big ol' gap between them and the wheel well. bigger rims look nice-ER but it doesn't mean the stock ones aren't nice. i like the blade design nissan used on the SE. and i'll always keep 'em, at least for snow tires

Originally posted by Paonessa
well, bluebird, my 95 came on 15's and they definitely look fine. you're entitled to your opiniion, however wrong it may be. most any stock nissan wheels look fine as long as there isn't a big ol' gap between them and the wheel well. bigger rims look nice-ER but it doesn't mean the stock ones aren't nice. i like the blade design nissan used on the SE. and i'll always keep 'em, at least for snow tires

Nothing like stock in my opinion as well. Although bigger rims are more flashy but I think 17 inch is the perfect size for racing IMO.....

Originally posted by thrasher


i have VLSD on my car, and it still isn't enough to combat wheel spin under hard acceleration. in a straight line, at WOT, my tires break loose with all the torque. granted, part of this can be attributed to the shitty no-grip tires, but if i were to go s/c or turbo, anything short of slicks wouldn't be good enough, i would need heavier wheels to require more force to turn without slippage

Heavy wheels are not the answer. Lighter wheels are easier to modulate spin. Heavy wheels just make you slow.

You just need to practice your launches.

i like maxima SE stockies, as i said. i also like a lot of Nismo products. like the LM-GT series wheels. those are popular on skylines. and they look awesome. also, wheels by Work and Longchamp are great looking. check those out. i am picky about wheels, btw. GTR stockies look great, too. i have some of those.

Originally posted by Paonessa
you're entitled to your opiniion, however wrong it may be.

:rolleyes:

quote:
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Originally posted by Paonessa
you're entitled to your opiniion, however wrong it may be.
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Originally posted by Bluebird from the


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

like i said you're entitled to your opinion, i just think it's fucked up the way you shot down mine.

Originally posted by Bluebird from the
http://www.jdmintegra.com/forums/images/smilies/wgaf.gif

Dude stop being an ass.

Originally posted by Paonessa
like i said you're entitled to your opinion, i just think it's fucked up the way you shot down mine.

You told me that my opinion is wrong. How can someone's opinion be wrong? Especially over something that is strictly based on opinion, i.e.; the differences in cosmetic preference over a given wheel size? That's like telling me I'm wrong because I prefer a black car over a white car.

And yes, I can shoot down your opinion just like you can shoot mine down. That is what happens when you display your opinion in a public venue.