Engine stalls

2000 Explorer XLS 4.0 SOHC.
156k miles

The engine is stalls with no warning. It shuts down and illuminates all the instrument panel lights -- key on mode. It's happening during idle-up (driving), idle down (stop sign), and curb idle (in the garage). It happens whether the engine is hot or cold/warm. When you let it sit/rest for a few minutes it will start again...the longer the wait the better. If you don't wait long enough and try to start it -- it tries to turnover. If it does [turnover] it will idle very rough and shut down out again. This has happened on dry and rainy days.

There is no check engine light. The starter, battery, and the alternator are good. The battery is less than 4 months new and I replaced the alternator this morning because there has been an issue with it for a few weeks. (another post).

I inspected all the vacum lines I could find and found no open lines.

When it starts (after sitting overnight) it will run strong for about 5 or more minutes and then die off again. This morning I put a timing light on all the plug wires to check for strobe. Good strobe on all wires. Actually the plugs, plug wires, and coil have all been replaced within the last year.

All I can think of is the fuel delivery system. The relay looks good from visual inspection. Maybe its the fuel pump but how can I test that? If I pull the fuel filter is there a test I can do to see if its clogged? I'd hate go out and start replacing good parts.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I don't feel comfortable driving it anywhere because of the spontaneous shut downs that are happening. I don't want to be stranded.

Thanks in advance.

Check your other post.

The throttle body is clean. I clean it frequently. This vehicle is very well maintained. I keep it very clean inside and out, as well as keeping up with the maintenance...i am very anal about my cars which is why it has high mileage and still looks and runs like new. ...well not lately. :)

...so is there any way to test the fuel delivery components? i.e. fuel pump and filter, fuel pressure? When trying to start it it continually turns over very strong. It sounds like its not getting any fuel and I do not smell raw fuel the way the old carberator systems would smell when you flood them. ...I guess i wouldn't smell fuel on a closed pressurized fuel injection system unless there is a leak.

However, I do remember that before this started, my wife mentioned that it was doing some sputtering. I drove it around for a day and it was idling rough when at a stop and in gear (Drive)..stop sign. Not a misfire but a rough idle. Driving it around was normal, good acceleration. We back it in the garage. When I get it started the the exhaust smells of a rich fuel mixture and when you place your hand under the pipe the exhaust air puffs against your hand. An ignition misfire shouldn't cause the engine to stall.

Normally, when the key is turned to the on position (non start) there is usually a quiet hissing sound for about 3 to 5 seconds. I have always assumed that sound is the fuel system charging. I still hear that sound and it sounds normal.

Thanks

Here is my take. With your stated issues and proper maintenance it could be one or multiple items going bad but not serious ones.
1. Check your catalytic converter. (Clogged or damaged can cause misfire and you will smell rich fuel).
2. EGR Valve- stuck open/closed (Will cause misfire, shut downs, rich fuel smell)
3. Go back over plugs( Check for cracked plug/plugs wires).
4. Take to dealer to have it scanned.

Thanks Franco.

Lewisville? Dude I'm in Denton.

Where do you suggest i take it since you are 10 miles down the highway? I hope like heck it aint the converter.

Converter is not damaged. would clogged cause engine shut downs? Its not misfiring, its just running like krap.

Plugs and plug wires are good. They all make the timing light strobe. Plug wires are less than 60 days old.

EGR Valve? I'll check and get back to you.

I was wondering when you where going to see that we were close! I had a partially clogged converter on my now sold 1996 Explorer and it would not let the egr's flow completely and caused a misfire and sometimes shut down when hot. I think Bill Utter Ford/ Sam Pack Ford is fine to take to. Just make sure that they won't just throw parts at the Explorer and not fix the problem. When it comes to Explorers/Expeditions they have many multiple problems to solve one. Just make sure what they make you pay for fixes it. I use Sam Pack Ford Lewisville for my Expedition when i can't fix it. If you go there ask for John Goddard and tell him Frank, Checa's dad sent you. He is honest.

When it stalls, try giving it a bit of throttle and see if it starts easier. Idle Air Control servos have been known to fail on these. Of course IAC is only at idle, so if you have stalling issues when driving, and since you say you have spark, you should check you fuel pressure.

-Rod

wish i could get it to bankston in frisco. thats the only place i let touch my Lincoln LS and my wifes exploder. they take good care of me over there and thats the only place i trust.

I know what you mean! If you trust them, go with them. I trust Sam Pack Lewisville. I replaced the IAC before when i had start up issues and idling. It cured that. But if your having stalling while driving i doubt that's the problem but, i have been wrong before. It's a cheap enough part to try if all else fails. Again, you can throw a lot of parts at the Explorer and still not fix the problem, so don't get frustrated if problem is not solve immediately. If you're throwing parts at it it's ok but not the dealership!

Today it started and killed off almost instantly. now it turns over strong but it will not start at all. I will pull the fuel filter and replace it, its just a $9 part, them I am going to pull the fuel line tomorrow morning and turn the key on. it should spit fuel as the system charges right? If it does spit fuel can I assume the pump is working? does the fuel pump send fuel electrically or mechanically? Is this a good way to test the pump? I have to know since its a $124 part but I also still have the OEM pump on the car. whats the service life of a fuel pump anyway? Mine has 159k miles on it.

I am going here becasuse i am I am pretty sure that the engine is not getting any fuel. i cleaned the IAC and the EGR. No change. I need a fuel filter and pump replacement procedure.

if that doesnt fix the problem I will call a tow truck because I am all out of ideas. darnit!

The electric fuel pump is located in the fuel tank. Many have failed with far fewer miles on them than yours. Since a working pump produces between probably 30 & 60 psi, you don't really want to just let it spray all over. You should use a fuel pressure tester that connects to the fuel rail. You should check both Key On Engine Off (KOEO) and KOERunning pressures, assuming you can get it running.

-Rod

i just replaced the filter, it was pretty filthy. No change, still wont start. Do I have to drop the tank to change the pump or is there a port in the back of the truck somewhere that allows access to it. When I released the fuel pressure via the valve stem on the injector rail I was expecting more fuel to spit out. It was just a few drops of fuel so there was very little pressure. The inertia switch was not tripped. Is there way to test the relay? I have a meter.

I will get a gauge and test the pressure at key on. It will not start so i cant check pressure at engine running -- unless i can expect a readout while the engine is turning over.

I had 185k miles when my 1996 Explorer fuel pump went out. Had to drop the tank and it was full. The more empty the better. Went back with Motorcraft. I didn't want to take the chance with aftermarket. One other low cost item you could check is your crank position sensor. This causes shut downs and no start issues. As i said in past post you can through a lot of parts at Explorers and still not fix the problem. The only sure way to find the problem is to scan the computer. I think i experienced it all with my 1996.

The electric fuel pump is located in the fuel tank. Many have failed with far fewer miles on them than yours. Since a working pump produces between probably 30 & 60 psi, you don't really want to just let it spray all over. You should use a fuel pressure tester that connects to the fuel rail. You should check both Key On Engine Off (KOEO) and KOERunning pressures, assuming you can get it running.

-Rod

if low pressure, what tells me if its the fuel pump.

I went to bill utter and spoke with the techs. When you turn the key to the on position i can hear the fuel pump cycle. Then i went out (key still on) and pushed the pressure relief valve on the fuel injector rail (FIR). Fuel sprayed out and then stopped as expected because the pump is not steady on unless the engine is running. So, I turned the key off-then-on then on about four times, charging the FIR a little more each time. Then I went for engine start on the fifth and and the engine started, it struggled to idle for about 10 seconds and then it quit again. I hit the pressure relief after it killed and it sprayed fuel. so the fuel pump seems to be good. i guess its time to tow it in. as there is not much more i can do. i'll put an odbii on it later just for the heck of it i guess.

It's ok man. I struggled just the same with mine. Did you check your crank position sensor?

nope. tell me more...i remember you mentioning it but tell me how to test it and what the results should be. please? Rod! Where you at dogg?

I'm actually on vacation and don't like typing on this little phone keyboard. I'm not sure how little fuel pressure would still spray fuel, knowing the pressure number might be beneficial, but a good shop may be the best route at this point.

-Rod

sorry to call you out while on vacation. i was on vac last week. hey, i gotta try a few more things before i take it in. Where is, and how can i test the crank position sensor? Would the knock sensor Knock sensor. This site was down all day today.

The crankshaft position sensor is on the front of the block, probably just above the pulley. I changed iut one of these not all that long ago on a Sport, not sure of the year. That one had no spark.

I don't think a knock sensor would cause your symptoms.

-Rod

cool thanks. once i pull it out how do i test whether or not it has a spark? LOL...the sensor!...i have an ohmmeter in the garage. any other sensors in the loop that i may need to investigate? again, the symptoms are:


this started with engine shut downs at drive idle, and curb/stop sign idle
now it wont start at all, just turns over
the fuel pump pressure is good (OEM - 159k miles)
replaced the fuel filter
the tank has gas in it

so im looking at sensors noe. putting an odbii on it first thing in the morning. i am holding out on taking it in. i love a challenge. :)

talk to me goose...

Hey we're back. T i removed the crank position sensor and took it to either autozone or oriellys, can't remember and they tested it for response. I believe they used a ohmmeter. It was bad. Replaced with the new one, cranked right up.
Try them.

i went to use /rent a odbii scanner and they changed thier policy and wouldnt let me use it. so i went and bought one. i got code a code p0320.

That helps. P0320 is Ignition/Distributor Engine Speed Input Circuit Malfunction. Three causes. Bad crank shaft position sensor, cam shaft position sensor or your wiring harness to your computer. On average it's the crankshaft position sensor. The cheapest to replace.

I read about the same. Is this a simple pull the part and replace it with this engine? I ask because I have read that on some engines you need to manually rotate the the crank until the engine is at TDC before replacing this part. I am getting mixed answers. Also the scanner i bought says it will scan individual sensors. I am reading up on it. if it does i should be able to better isolate the exact faulty sensor.

The factory service manual for the 2000 Explorer suggests that the possible causes for the P0320 code are typically noise-related:



Loose wires/connectors
Arcing secondary ignition components (coil, wires and plugs)
On board transmitter (2-way radio)

On the 2000 model year, all engines have the CKP sensor in relatively the same location, front of the engine near the crankshaft at about the 11 o'clock position. There is no need to index the engine. Are you sure the articles suggesting the engine be at TDC were not referring to the Camshaft Position Sensor (CPS)? Torque the mounting bolts to 89 in-lbs.

I checked the CKP by backprobing the sensor with an oscilloscope, looking for the squarewave when cranking the engine. You can probably check resistance of the sensor too, but it would be a less reliable method. Your scan tool may be able to monitor the CKP signal as well.

-Rod

I went ahead and pulled the Crankshaft Position Sensor...took it to autozone and got another one. Before I paid ($14) for it I put my ohmmeter on it. The old one read under 200. The new one over 400. I put the new one on the truck and it started right up. Put about 20 miles on it. It runs great again. SUCCESS! YAY! I get my Lincoln back.

Thanks guys, I couldn't have done it without your assistance.

T. Glad to hear you found success! That's the same way it happened for me and my Explorer. Relief! Later.

Well,not so fast.

The odbii released the code for the crank Position Sensor and replaced it with a misfire on #4. I inspected the plug wires and put a new set of plugs on it and it smoothed out a little. I think I fixed the misfire on #4 but NOW, its running rough when in gear and holding the car still.

When accelerating from a stop there is a vibration that feels like a motor mount vibration. Then is smooths out and does well when driving at higher rpm's. We back it in the garage. A slight uphill grade. I let it roll backwards on its own power (no acceleration) it moves the truck but the idle is VERY rough and the exhaust is smelling rich.

I cleared the codes and will wait till they all reset but what could be the problem? Coil maybe. I have a lifetime warranty on it and might pull it and replace it for the heck of it.:banghead:

Easy tiger. Most misfires are coil based. You're on the right track. Replace #misfires with new coils. Remember as I stated in prior post about having to fix one or two problems to solve totally.

How old are the spark plug wires, and are they of good quality? It wouldn't surprise me if they are due to be replaced, and if they are as old as the plugs were, I'd suggest you replace them prior to replacing the coil(s) since they are probably due to be replaced anyway.

You might also try moving a couple of plugs around (and wires) to see if the misfire code follows either.

-Rod

Hey Mr Rod, Hope your vacation was awesome...:)

The plug wires are fairly new. Maybe 4 months...but I took a good look at them and they still look brand new. One of the problems I've with replacing the plug wires(oriely)...the boot is too long and rests on that hot exhaust tube behind 4,5 and 6. After a few replacements, I now have them wrapped in a heat shield wrap. It seems to work. Also, I put 6 NEW plugs in today.

I use the heck out of my timing light (and my cool new scanner) and am noticing that on a few of the cylinders, the strobe is blacking out intermittently. I can actually see the misfire on at least 2, maybe 3 cylinders. I put my hand under the exhaust and the air is more like puffs than steady flow of air...it smells or raw fuel (running rich). Coil?

I don't recall on the 2000 V6 if it uses a single coilpack or 3 coil packs of 2 cylinders each. Do the cylinders that blank out share a coil pack or two? If so, you could try moving coils around if they are individual packs and see if the blanking follows the coil or remains on the cylinder. If it follows the coil, then you probably have an issue with the coil. If it remains on the same cylinders, then you probably have bad wires, spark plugs, or an issue with the camshaft position sensor.

-Rod

I have a coil pack. 6 ports on top of a solid coil.

Hope this makes sense.

coil ****cylinders
----------------
3-4 **** 3-6
2-6 **** 2-5
1-5 **** 1-4
----------------
(R side) front of vehicle (L side)

FO=1-4-2-5-3-6

On cylinders 1 and 3 the strobe is blinking out.
The other have more of a constant strobe yet they still have a slight blink out happening. The odbii now shows misfire on cylinder 1.

I think the coil is jacked but wish I had another way to test it. Last time it went bad it threw a code, but that code didn't come until it got really bad.

T, you ever get your Explorer running right?

Geesh, I almost forgot about this thread.

Since you replaced the CKP and it helped for a bit, and now you have multiple misfires (timing light method) and a misfire code, I wonder if you don't have the CKP close enough to the crankshaft tone ring. There is an interesting note in the service manual regarding the CKP:
" 3. Note: 4.0L SOHC and 4.0L (push rod) CKP sensors need to be touching the damper. The CKP sensor has wear tabs that will wear off after several engine revolutions."

-Rod

hello my name is steve is your explorer rough idleing, because mine is an it wont stay running ,but it cranks wright up after dieing ,it has no power ,i could put it drive hold throttle wide open an it has so lack of power it wont even move ,somebody told me to change the avac sensor which is the round looking thing on top of the injector

Hey Rod,

I left it alone for awhile. The new CPS is not exactly like the old one but it installs the same. There is no room to adjust it so maybe its the wrong part, it was not exactly like the OEM one that i took off. You thing I need to get one from Ford? Actually, it was running a little rough before all this started. Its worse since the CPS replacement. Since its running i was going to get it over to my service manager buddy at the dealership and let him hook it up and scan it. I will not drop another dime into it unless i know EXACTLY whats wrong.

hello my name is steve is your explorer rough idleing, because mine is an it wont stay running ,but it cranks wright up after dieing ,it has no power ,i could put it drive hold throttle wide open an it has so lack of power it wont even move ,somebody told me to change the avac sensor which is the round looking thing on top of the injector

thats pretty vague steve. there could be many reasons/systems causing your symptoms. Could be fuel system, vacum system, or maybe a sensor, or maybe something with the ignition system(plugs and /or plug wires) is it misfiring?

is the check engine light (CEL) on? If so get it to an autozone or oreily parts store and connect it to the odbii scanner and analyze the codes present.

T, you ever get your Explorer running right?

nah, i left it alone for a week.plan on getting out there today and looking around. Rod mentions the CKP sensor but i replcaed the CPS. I hope he just did a typo but my nes sensor it what the book calls for even though it doesnt liike the same. I might get one from ford tomorrow and take the one i have back to autozone. i didnt notice any wear tabs.

Rod mentions the CKP sensor but i replcaed the CPS. I hope he just did a typo but my nes sensor it what the book calls for even though it doesnt liike the same.

CKP = Crankshaft Position Sensor
CPS = Camshaft Position Sensor

From prior posts you indicated that you replaced the Crankshaft Position Sensor (CKP). The CKP is used primarily for firing the coils, the CPS is used for triggering the fuel injectors. the CKP is what the factory service manual indicates has wear tabs. You might be best off getting the part from the dealer at this point if you're unable to determine on the vehicle whether or not the sensor is generating a squarewave. Looks like you can expect to pay about $61 for the part from the dealer.

When way2old gets back from vacation, he may be able to shed some light on this situation too. He seems to have pretty extensive experience with Explorers.

-Rod

Thanks Rod. I will get a Ford CKP sensor and see how it goes.

back to this issue... I went to ford this morning to get the motorcraft CKP. I was expecting it to look exactly like the OEM one that came off the truck, but instead its exactly like the after market part that came from Autozone. Ford said the original sensor has been redesigned about 4 times and the replacements do not have wear tabs as Rod explained earlier. Hmmm, so how do I determine if CKP is generating a squarewave anyway. I did not buy the Ford CKP..

I took the truck over to my buddy at another Ford dealership to get it scanned and learned nothing new. All they see is misfire on 1...um, my odbii scanner told me that in my garage. They report plugs or plug wires. I told them that I have new sets of both on the truck. Then they said its possibly the coil pak. I'll buy one today but I am hesitant because I really want to know exactly whats wrong. I don't like this guess and buy parts business. ...but if its not the coil ill take it off and return it. GRRR!

Whats puzzling is that befoer the CKP sensor went out, the truck was running fine. can the CKP cause the coils to malfunction? I drove it about 30 highway miles today and it runs good at high rpm's (normal power). It's idling bad and you can really feel the misfire under a load i.e. taking off from a standstill.

Since the vehicle seems fine at higher speeds, lower load, the problem is probably not the CKP. To check it for a square wave you'd need to back probe it while still connected, then have someone crank the engine while monitoring the signal on an oscilloscope. But, if the issue were the air gap, then I think you'd experience a misfire at highway speeds as well.

Since you are consistently getting a misfire code for cylinder #1, you might try swapping the plug from cyl 1 with another, as well as the coil wire if there happens to be another wire that's similar in length. See if the misfire code follows the plug and wire. If it remains on cylinder 1, then you probably have a coil issue or an injector or compression issue.

-Rod

Set of spark plugs - $25.00
CKP sensor - $14.00
New Plug wires - free
Coil - $70.00

too hard headed to believe that a new set of six spark plugs can't be the problem. priceless!

Yep, a brand (new) plug on number 1 was defective. The odb11 even told me "Misfire on cylinder 1" But nooo! If I had inspected them before installing would have caught it.

I didn't need the coil but I broke the darn plug clip when trying to take it off to return it for a refund...you break it you buy it rule.

The Exploder is back!

Glad to hear you got it squared away. Sorry it took so many iterations to get there. Was the plug ceramic cracked or was there some other problem?

-Rod

the ceramic was jacked...really loose...just a flawed plug...yaaaay! i get my Lincoln back... :)

Good for you! You stayed with it. Your trials will help others down the road. I commend you for your postings. Thanks!
Franco

Thanks! I could not have gotten here without yours and shorods advice. You guys are awesome troubleshooters.

One more point to make, I got a different set of plug wires because Oriely got sick of warrantying them (Omnispark 9580) out for me. The replacement (BWD CH8667) don't have those standard clips that attach to the coil ports but they have a nice thick boot that snaps on securely. They also have a longer copper stem for the coil contacts. The old coil I took off has arc spots inside the ports...like the copper stem was too short or something. Also the spark plug connector is deeper in the boot and it (the boot) no longer touches that hot exhaust gas tube.

And to think. Ford swore my Fuel pump was gone. Thats why I don't let them touch my cars once they are out of warranty.

So with all these changes, the Exploder is actually running BETTER than it did before all this started. Maybe ill let her keep the Lincoln for awhile?? Nah!