your opinion?
HeWhoKillz
08-10-2009, 07:24 PM
This is a video i made for my sentra which I think the engine is locked. Any ideas? Sorry about the quality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqW5-BE6llc
I took the starter off and found it to be ok. I tried to turn the engine by the fly wheel by hand(obvious fail) and with items such as a screw driver, crow bar, but no luck. Someone mentioned it might be the timing belt. However, correct me if im wrong but I dont think the timing belt could have anything to do with the engine missing out. The popping I heard I believe it to have been rod knock. Is there any other tests I could do? I thought of taking the oil pan off and seeing if there wasn't any obvious damage from the bottom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqW5-BE6llc
I took the starter off and found it to be ok. I tried to turn the engine by the fly wheel by hand(obvious fail) and with items such as a screw driver, crow bar, but no luck. Someone mentioned it might be the timing belt. However, correct me if im wrong but I dont think the timing belt could have anything to do with the engine missing out. The popping I heard I believe it to have been rod knock. Is there any other tests I could do? I thought of taking the oil pan off and seeing if there wasn't any obvious damage from the bottom.
shorod
08-10-2009, 08:58 PM
Did you have the spark plugs installed when trying to turn the engine over? If not, try that and see how well the engine can be turned over by hand/long bar.
-Rod
-Rod
HeWhoKillz
08-10-2009, 10:12 PM
Did you have the spark plugs installed when trying to turn the engine over? If not, try that and see how well the engine can be turned over by hand/long bar.
-Rod
The spark plugs were in it. i changed them about a year ago plugs, wires, etc.
-Rod
The spark plugs were in it. i changed them about a year ago plugs, wires, etc.
curtis73
08-10-2009, 10:42 PM
Socket on the crank bolt, try to turn clockwise. If it won't go, try going counterclockwise. If it moves, go back clockwise and see if it clunks to a stop. If so, its probably a valve timing issue. If it won't turn either way, its probably seized.
Depending on where it is in the cycles, it will have varying degrees of difficulty, but you'll be able to tell the difference between the springy effort as you overcome compression versus the obvious clunk of hitting a valve. You should be able to turn a healthy engine with a 1' breaker bar and a socket with about 50 lbs of pressure. If you're getting a hernia or turning the bolt before you turn the crank, something isn't right.
Depending on where it is in the cycles, it will have varying degrees of difficulty, but you'll be able to tell the difference between the springy effort as you overcome compression versus the obvious clunk of hitting a valve. You should be able to turn a healthy engine with a 1' breaker bar and a socket with about 50 lbs of pressure. If you're getting a hernia or turning the bolt before you turn the crank, something isn't right.
MagicRat
08-10-2009, 10:46 PM
Wow, I wish everyone could make such a comprehensive video and history on their problems. It would make advising others super-easy.
Someone mentioned it might be the timing belt. However, correct me if im wrong but I dont think the timing belt could have anything to do with the engine missing out. The popping I heard I believe it to have been rod knock.
Let me correct you. Most modern engines use an 'interference' design of valve gear. This means that if the timing belt or chain fails, the valves no longer have synchronized movement ("timing") relative to the piston.
A modest drift of valve timing kills power and can cause a popping noise, likely as valves open at the wrong time, allowing combustion chamber gases to burn in the intake manifold.
As the timing drifts more, the pistons will get shoved into the still-open valves, thus locking up the engine.
In your case, probably, as you drove, your timing belt (which drives the camshafts) started to come apart. Probably the 'cogs' on the belt got sheared off, which allowed the cams to turn for a short time, but lose their timing quite quickly, which explains the progressive nature of the failure.
If the belt simply broke suddenly, the engine would not fail over time, but would simply lock up suddenly.
This is a common failure for people who neglect to change their timing belt(s) when required. A good rule of thumb is to change the belt every 50,000 miles, or when the owners manual tells you to.
In your case, expect to have to remove your cylinder head and install a rebuilt one, or a good used one. Your head may be damaged or cracked.
If you are lucky, the rest of your engine will be okay. However, if the pistons are gouged or have holes (your rods may be bent, too) the engine needs rebuilding or replacing. :(
Someone mentioned it might be the timing belt. However, correct me if im wrong but I dont think the timing belt could have anything to do with the engine missing out. The popping I heard I believe it to have been rod knock.
Let me correct you. Most modern engines use an 'interference' design of valve gear. This means that if the timing belt or chain fails, the valves no longer have synchronized movement ("timing") relative to the piston.
A modest drift of valve timing kills power and can cause a popping noise, likely as valves open at the wrong time, allowing combustion chamber gases to burn in the intake manifold.
As the timing drifts more, the pistons will get shoved into the still-open valves, thus locking up the engine.
In your case, probably, as you drove, your timing belt (which drives the camshafts) started to come apart. Probably the 'cogs' on the belt got sheared off, which allowed the cams to turn for a short time, but lose their timing quite quickly, which explains the progressive nature of the failure.
If the belt simply broke suddenly, the engine would not fail over time, but would simply lock up suddenly.
This is a common failure for people who neglect to change their timing belt(s) when required. A good rule of thumb is to change the belt every 50,000 miles, or when the owners manual tells you to.
In your case, expect to have to remove your cylinder head and install a rebuilt one, or a good used one. Your head may be damaged or cracked.
If you are lucky, the rest of your engine will be okay. However, if the pistons are gouged or have holes (your rods may be bent, too) the engine needs rebuilding or replacing. :(
HeWhoKillz
08-10-2009, 11:32 PM
Wow, I wish everyone could make such a comprehensive video and history on their problems. It would make advising others super-easy.
Let me correct you. Most modern engines use an 'interference' design of valve gear. This means that if the timing belt or chain fails, the valves no longer have synchronized movement ("timing") relative to the piston.
A modest drift of valve timing kills power and can cause a popping noise, likely as valves open at the wrong time, allowing combustion chamber gases to burn in the intake manifold.
As the timing drifts more, the pistons will get shoved into the still-open valves, thus locking up the engine.
In your case, probably, as you drove, your timing belt (which drives the camshafts) started to come apart. Probably the 'cogs' on the belt got sheared off, which allowed the cams to turn for a short time, but lose their timing quite quickly, which explains the progressive nature of the failure.
If the belt simply broke suddenly, the engine would not fail over time, but would simply lock up suddenly.
This is a common failure for people who neglect to change their timing belt(s) when required. A good rule of thumb is to change the belt every 50,000 miles, or when the owners manual tells you to.
In your case, expect to have to remove your cylinder head and install a rebuilt one, or a good used one. Your head may be damaged or cracked.
If you are lucky, the rest of your engine will be okay. However, if the pistons are gouged or have holes (your rods may be bent, too) the engine needs rebuilding or replacing. :(
sorry about the video, it was pretty lame. new video camera, so all i really wanted to do was play with it.
For a about a week the car had a small popping to it. I thought it was the bearings on the axles going out and needing replaced. Can a damaged timing belt last that long without causing any trouble while making the popping? I hadn't considered the timing belt, even though it still sounded like rod knock. However, i could and probably am wrong. It almost sounds like it would be easier to just swap out the engine.
Let me correct you. Most modern engines use an 'interference' design of valve gear. This means that if the timing belt or chain fails, the valves no longer have synchronized movement ("timing") relative to the piston.
A modest drift of valve timing kills power and can cause a popping noise, likely as valves open at the wrong time, allowing combustion chamber gases to burn in the intake manifold.
As the timing drifts more, the pistons will get shoved into the still-open valves, thus locking up the engine.
In your case, probably, as you drove, your timing belt (which drives the camshafts) started to come apart. Probably the 'cogs' on the belt got sheared off, which allowed the cams to turn for a short time, but lose their timing quite quickly, which explains the progressive nature of the failure.
If the belt simply broke suddenly, the engine would not fail over time, but would simply lock up suddenly.
This is a common failure for people who neglect to change their timing belt(s) when required. A good rule of thumb is to change the belt every 50,000 miles, or when the owners manual tells you to.
In your case, expect to have to remove your cylinder head and install a rebuilt one, or a good used one. Your head may be damaged or cracked.
If you are lucky, the rest of your engine will be okay. However, if the pistons are gouged or have holes (your rods may be bent, too) the engine needs rebuilding or replacing. :(
sorry about the video, it was pretty lame. new video camera, so all i really wanted to do was play with it.
For a about a week the car had a small popping to it. I thought it was the bearings on the axles going out and needing replaced. Can a damaged timing belt last that long without causing any trouble while making the popping? I hadn't considered the timing belt, even though it still sounded like rod knock. However, i could and probably am wrong. It almost sounds like it would be easier to just swap out the engine.
vgames33
08-11-2009, 11:44 AM
If it matters, that GA16DE has a chain, not a belt. Perhaps he was hearing the chain rattle due to a faulty tensioner?
HeWhoKillz
08-11-2009, 06:42 PM
If it matters, that GA16DE has a chain, not a belt. Perhaps he was hearing the chain rattle due to a faulty tensioner?
yeah...chain...that actually makes more sense thinking about it as a chain rather than a belt cause i couldn't see how a belt would make a popping noise. pprehaps i haould get the cover off and take a look and prehaps post another pathetic yet personally entertaining video of it or prehaps i can get down to the chain itself but it would take a little time. Can you still turn the engine with a breaker bar or anything with a broken timing chain? cause it sure won't budge.
yeah...chain...that actually makes more sense thinking about it as a chain rather than a belt cause i couldn't see how a belt would make a popping noise. pprehaps i haould get the cover off and take a look and prehaps post another pathetic yet personally entertaining video of it or prehaps i can get down to the chain itself but it would take a little time. Can you still turn the engine with a breaker bar or anything with a broken timing chain? cause it sure won't budge.
vgames33
08-12-2009, 11:43 AM
If it won't budge, its probably locked up. I would think it would move at least a little if the chain was broken.
One of my teachers in school told us a story about another tech that he worked with a few years back. He thought the engine was locked up on a chevy truck, but it turned out to be the alternator bearings were locked instead and the belt was keeping the engine from moving. He didn't realize until he had stripped the engine down and was trying to get at the torque converter bolts and the engine spun freely. Just for the hell of it, try taking the accessory belts off and see if it will spin then. Maybe you'll get lucky.
Have you looked at the oil? Drain it out and see if its full of metal shavings.
One of my teachers in school told us a story about another tech that he worked with a few years back. He thought the engine was locked up on a chevy truck, but it turned out to be the alternator bearings were locked instead and the belt was keeping the engine from moving. He didn't realize until he had stripped the engine down and was trying to get at the torque converter bolts and the engine spun freely. Just for the hell of it, try taking the accessory belts off and see if it will spin then. Maybe you'll get lucky.
Have you looked at the oil? Drain it out and see if its full of metal shavings.
oldblu65
08-12-2009, 12:36 PM
Shorod asked if your plugs were in place when you tried to turn the engine by hand ? Your answer was yes . Have you tried removing the plugs then trying to turn the engine ? The engine would be very difficult to turn , by hand , if the plugs are installed .
HeWhoKillz
08-12-2009, 07:09 PM
i have the plugs out along with the belts. I have taken the cover off the top and the one on the side. The first chain looks ok and no teeth or gears seem to be messed up I can't see the second chain though. However, I was able to turn a little bit. See for yourself. In the video I didn't have much place to sit it but the side cover for the timing chain is off and I'm turning the engine by the cam shaft sprocket.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYpaVgVey8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYpaVgVey8U
curtis73
08-12-2009, 09:05 PM
Certainly seems like something is messed up internally... rusted bores, spun bearing, something. With the plugs out, that should be steady, easy movement. On the crankshaft, it should take about 20 lb-ft of torque to move the crank, and it should be the same effort the whole way around with minor differences every 90-ish degrees for a valve opening event.
Looks like its time for a teardown.
Oh.... and use a wrench instead of vise-grips :O
Looks like its time for a teardown.
Oh.... and use a wrench instead of vise-grips :O
Moppie
08-12-2009, 09:07 PM
I have, to say, having the videos is really cool.
Unforuntatly I would put money on it being wrecked. I wonder if a rod has snapped and that is what is stopping it from turning more than what looks like about a 1/4 turn.
Unforuntatly I would put money on it being wrecked. I wonder if a rod has snapped and that is what is stopping it from turning more than what looks like about a 1/4 turn.
HeWhoKillz
08-12-2009, 11:23 PM
Certainly seems like something is messed up internally... rusted bores, spun bearing, something. With the plugs out, that should be steady, easy movement. On the crankshaft, it should take about 20 lb-ft of torque to move the crank, and it should be the same effort the whole way around with minor differences every 90-ish degrees for a valve opening event.
Looks like its time for a teardown.
Oh.... and use a wrench instead of vise-grips :O
I don't have a wrench that fits it. I think its like 1/2 or something.
Looks like its time for a teardown.
Oh.... and use a wrench instead of vise-grips :O
I don't have a wrench that fits it. I think its like 1/2 or something.
HeWhoKillz
08-12-2009, 11:31 PM
I have, to say, having the videos is really cool.
Unforuntatly I would put money on it being wrecked. I wonder if a rod has snapped and that is what is stopping it from turning more than what looks like about a 1/4 turn.
I am this far so I might as well get the cylinder head off. I have to find something to fit the crankshaft pulley cause thats one of the items that comes off when getting the timing chain off which is part of getting the cylinder head off. I want to see what happened. At this rate, if i have to get the engine out, ill only have to get the bottom of the engine out ha. And I didn't think the videos were that great. Dumb question but ill ask. The part where the intake connected to, or sat on top of, thats also part of the cylinder head right? Or is that another part that needs separated. Other than that, its just the timing chain I have to get off. I'm guessing Ill have to get a bigger wrench to fit the crankshaft pulley. Unless I try the vise grips on it. I do thank everyone for helping me. When and if I get the cylinder head off, Ill post another video of it.
Unforuntatly I would put money on it being wrecked. I wonder if a rod has snapped and that is what is stopping it from turning more than what looks like about a 1/4 turn.
I am this far so I might as well get the cylinder head off. I have to find something to fit the crankshaft pulley cause thats one of the items that comes off when getting the timing chain off which is part of getting the cylinder head off. I want to see what happened. At this rate, if i have to get the engine out, ill only have to get the bottom of the engine out ha. And I didn't think the videos were that great. Dumb question but ill ask. The part where the intake connected to, or sat on top of, thats also part of the cylinder head right? Or is that another part that needs separated. Other than that, its just the timing chain I have to get off. I'm guessing Ill have to get a bigger wrench to fit the crankshaft pulley. Unless I try the vise grips on it. I do thank everyone for helping me. When and if I get the cylinder head off, Ill post another video of it.
vgames33
08-13-2009, 10:53 AM
If you don't already have them, the B13 service manuals are available for download.
http://www.nissanforums.com/b13-91-94-chassis/97788-b13-n14-factory-service-manual-volume-9.html
The links near the bottom of the page worked for me a few minutes ago. isocostrica or something.
http://www.nissanforums.com/b13-91-94-chassis/97788-b13-n14-factory-service-manual-volume-9.html
The links near the bottom of the page worked for me a few minutes ago. isocostrica or something.
534BC
08-13-2009, 04:38 PM
It looks like there's bottom end trouble, that is broken rod/piston/pin/crank perhaps. The engine will have to come out probably. I'm not sure how tight clearances are inside that particular engine, but it looks like the crank is hitting somthing like a piston or rod.
HeWhoKillz
08-13-2009, 07:47 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8IgHLSfvRo
I don't see any damage to the timing chain, the first one anyways. Someone mentioned it would take 20 lbs of pressure to get the crankshaft pulley bolt off but i swear it took way more than that. The bolt is out but the pulley refuses to come off. I think I'm dealing with an engine that has never come out of its seat. Any comments on the crankshaft pulley? I also have to get a 10mm allen wrench, mine only go up to like 6 or something but what can i say, it was from wal mart. Its nice being able to post videos cause its nice to get comments and what to watch for and any other information I can since I've never torn an engine down before.
I don't see any damage to the timing chain, the first one anyways. Someone mentioned it would take 20 lbs of pressure to get the crankshaft pulley bolt off but i swear it took way more than that. The bolt is out but the pulley refuses to come off. I think I'm dealing with an engine that has never come out of its seat. Any comments on the crankshaft pulley? I also have to get a 10mm allen wrench, mine only go up to like 6 or something but what can i say, it was from wal mart. Its nice being able to post videos cause its nice to get comments and what to watch for and any other information I can since I've never torn an engine down before.
vgames33
08-14-2009, 12:36 PM
He said that it would take about 20lbs to rotate the engine, the bolt is usually in at way over 100 ft-lbs. I'm not sure how that pulley comes off, but you may need a balancer puller to remove it. Most import cars that I have dealt with use 4 or 5 small bolts and the pulley just falls off, most american cars require a puller.
How many miles are on your Sentra? I've owned two of them and one had well over 200k on it, and I've seen several B13 GA16DEs in the 300k range without failure.
How many miles are on your Sentra? I've owned two of them and one had well over 200k on it, and I've seen several B13 GA16DEs in the 300k range without failure.
HeWhoKillz
08-15-2009, 12:01 AM
He said that it would take about 20lbs to rotate the engine, the bolt is usually in at way over 100 ft-lbs. I'm not sure how that pulley comes off, but you may need a balancer puller to remove it. Most import cars that I have dealt with use 4 or 5 small bolts and the pulley just falls off, most american cars require a puller.
How many miles are on your Sentra? I've owned two of them and one had well over 200k on it, and I've seen several B13 GA16DEs in the 300k range without failure.
mine only made it to about 140000. its a 93 but i think the problem is it sat around alot. the guy i bought it from didn't drive it much, just every now and then but would sit alot. ive always thought letting a car sit around is worse than driving it. however, the car is pretty nice and if i can get a rebuilt engine or a used one ill keep it. i use it mainly for the highway. i got it with about 128000 on it almost two years ago. the crankshaft pulley is the last thing i need to get off cause ive unbolted and pulled everything else off. prehaps i should just take the oil pan off and look underneath.
How many miles are on your Sentra? I've owned two of them and one had well over 200k on it, and I've seen several B13 GA16DEs in the 300k range without failure.
mine only made it to about 140000. its a 93 but i think the problem is it sat around alot. the guy i bought it from didn't drive it much, just every now and then but would sit alot. ive always thought letting a car sit around is worse than driving it. however, the car is pretty nice and if i can get a rebuilt engine or a used one ill keep it. i use it mainly for the highway. i got it with about 128000 on it almost two years ago. the crankshaft pulley is the last thing i need to get off cause ive unbolted and pulled everything else off. prehaps i should just take the oil pan off and look underneath.
vgames33
08-16-2009, 06:55 PM
Its a shame you're in Indiana. I have a '93 XE auto with about 130k on it that rusted away. The engine runs great but needs new valve stem seals (puff of smoke at startup). I'm on the other side of Ohio, though. I'm sure you can find a GA16DE much closer to you than that.
HeWhoKillz
08-17-2009, 05:58 PM
Its a shame you're in Indiana. I have a '93 XE auto with about 130k on it that rusted away. The engine runs great but needs new valve stem seals (puff of smoke at startup). I'm on the other side of Ohio, though. I'm sure you can find a GA16DE much closer to you than that.
I was curious. Do you think an sr20de would be as easy to put in as the ga16de? Or do you think there would be other modifications to get it to fit in. I had thought about putting a sr20de in it for a while just for fun and now that the engine is finished anyways I thought i would atleast look into it.
I was curious. Do you think an sr20de would be as easy to put in as the ga16de? Or do you think there would be other modifications to get it to fit in. I had thought about putting a sr20de in it for a while just for fun and now that the engine is finished anyways I thought i would atleast look into it.
Moppie
08-17-2009, 10:33 PM
I was curious. Do you think an sr20de would be as easy to put in as the ga16de? Or do you think there would be other modifications to get it to fit in. I had thought about putting a sr20de in it for a while just for fun and now that the engine is finished anyways I thought i would atleast look into it.
It is not an easy bolt in swap, and there are other issues do deal with other than just getting the engine into the engine bay.
It is not an easy bolt in swap, and there are other issues do deal with other than just getting the engine into the engine bay.
vgames33
08-18-2009, 12:55 AM
I don't think its too hard. Plenty of people have done it to GA cars. Ask around on a nissan forum.
This might help (its for the DET, so some may not pertain to just a DE):
http://www.sr20forum.com/technical-information-library/87887-howto-1-6-ga16de-2-0-sr20de-t-swap.html
This might help (its for the DET, so some may not pertain to just a DE):
http://www.sr20forum.com/technical-information-library/87887-howto-1-6-ga16de-2-0-sr20de-t-swap.html
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