Vacuum Problem

Ok, I gotta crazy problem for you guys to help me solve...

When I make full boost...sometimes, if not driven an exact way, a cloud of black smoke will pour out of my muffler...like...not like when you have a bad a/f ratio...i mean its like, one of those secret agent cars...I hit full boost and a smoke cloud runs out...

When it happens, i'm usually at full boost like I say, and and it makes a bogging noise, like I can feel my car bog down, but its not a jumpy bog, its like, a constant smooth less power bog, just for a few moments, and when I let off the gas, it stops of coarse.

I asked questions, talked to different folks that sold the parts I have. Even talked to this local "eclipse guru" apparently(old guy which has a local track record, running a rs) and he said It may be the vacuum pulling so hard its sucking oil through the pcv valve, or something another...or maybe I heard him wrong. Either way, hows the oil getting out?

Like I said, this is only sometimes...like, when im driving down a road, and shift down, and give it hell. It sometimes does this. Usually from a dead standstill though, maxing out the boost wont make it do it.


:eek7:
Any ideas?

Check the turbo for shaft play. Sounds like something along those lines to me...

Check the turbo shaft play, oil drain for blockages, check your intercooler to see if there is oil in the bottom. I think what your friend was saying is your PCV valve is leaking when the manifold sees boost pressure. This will cause your crankcase to pressureize and could blow oil by the rings. My car does is occationally but it only blows the dipstick up a little so I doubt this is your problem.

Im betting on a fuel problem, running to rich under boost. Do you have a wideband gauge to show your not? You said your not running rich but how do you know this.

Oh I have no doubt in my mind the tuning is lets say a wee bit off...

Which is why im trying desperately to get my laptop to work to tune it up...

I was just trying to pinpoint the problem...if I tune it, and it still does the same thing, ill let ya guys know and we can go from there, appreciate the answers!!

Yea that would be your best place to start. You still didn't answer my question about the wideband. Do you have one and if not how do you plan on tuning that car?

sure dont...

I guess I need one...

Cant be done without it right?

Little boogers are expensive, hafta save up a paycheck or two to get one.

Also, im not sure if my o2 sensor is wideband...when i bought the car, it had the exhaust piping already on it...

Yea I doubt you have one then. And yes you have to have one in order to do any tuning. Or you can take it to a dyno and have then tune it with their WB.

However with the price of dyno time with WB tuning, it'll be cheaper to buy one and do some basic tuning yourself.

Learning to tune from scratch with boost can make for some very expensive mistakes lol.

Learning to tune from scratch with boost can make for some very expensive mistakes lol.

go on....lol

When it comes to boost it only takes a little detonation to turn pistons into conversation pieces. I've seen everything from broken ring lands to pistons that practically exploded into BB's from too much timing, not enough fuel or both. Poor tuning and boost are not friends. You really need a wideband and data logger before you can really understand what your PCM/engine's doing. I like the PLX wideband, they do have a data logger but since I use the TwEECer to data log I've never needed to use it. I'd do the checks recommended above tho.
By the way, what do you mean by drive a special way?

Tuning is a little risky but as long as you take it slow and dont rush it you will be ok. Also your not starting from stratch since you are already boosting the car and its running. So you need to just do some logs over the entire boost portion of the map and adjust your fuel controller accordingly. Since you are on the stock timing maps you will have to be careful when boosting above 15psi. I recomend that you make some det cans to help you hear detonation. I tune with those and a WB and never have any issues.

Awesome awesome, this is the exact info ive been searching so long for, thanks so much...
:grinyes:

but um, by drive it a special way, i mean, if i start off from a dead standstill and accelerate hard under boost, it doesnt do it(burn oil) but it seems it only does it when im cruising steadily, and downshift, and hit it...

thats what that meant, sorry


so, let me make a check list of things i need, and you can tell me if im on the right track...

-wide band 02 sensor
-data logger
-wide band gauge
-det can


heres a link to the gauge i wanna get, if any of you are bored and wanna see it lol...

http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/Black-Face-Wideband-Air-Fuel-Gauge.aspx

also, anyone recommend a good company for 02 sensors? an possibly, a link to an install thread? if thatsnot asking too much.....:rolleyes:

if it is, you can kick me

Assuming its running rich (black smoke instead of blue gray) it cant have a very good tune if its blowing that much smoke, to me that's starting from scratch. Also, Det cans do work but they can also be a risky way to go as they depend on your ears and reaction time to save the engine from damage. Right now I'm saving for the J&S system because it doesn't depend on my fu*cked up hearing to prevent damage and it retards the timing automatically allowing me to keep my foot where it belongs, firmly on the floor.
Power cost $$$, you need to pay to play. Bosch is my personal suggestion for wideband o2 sensors.

The det cans work amazingly well. The only issue with them is that your not monitoring knock all the time. Since your on your stock ECU if you knock it will pull timing. On a standalone system, i.e. MSnS you probably dont have a knock sensor hooked up so I just pull another degree of timing to be on the safe side.

awesome...looks liek i know wher emy next few paychecks are gonna go lol

thanks!

also, that gauge i posted a link for, comes with a o2 sensor, are they universal? or car specific?

If you're gonna replace the sensor in your car you need to get a setup that will emulate the factory sensor (like the PLX or the LM1). Other than that you just need to add another bung for the wideband sensor.

ohh ok i understand now.

i didnt understand that you add to, not replace the original sensor

i get it, so you weld this one in, and it wires straight to the control box that comes with the gauge kit....

cool, thanks!!

ohh ok i understand now.

i didnt understand that you add to, not replace the original sensor

i get it, so you weld this one in, and it wires straight to the control box that comes with the gauge kit....

cool, thanks!!


This is correct.

silvr, may i ask, what kind of data logger do you use? im shopping online...

silvr, may i ask, what kind of data logger do you use? im shopping online...

MegaSquirt logs everything.

megasquirt makes JUST a data logger? bc i already have a means of tuning fuel and all so i just need a handheld logger...

ill look into it when i get outta class today, im late right now, hha

but thanks

If you're gonna replace the sensor in your car you need to get a setup that will emulate the factory sensor (like the PLX or the LM1). Other than that you just need to add another bung for the wideband sensor.
Partially correct. Many sensors require 36" of pipe before the WB02.

No megasquirt is the ECU. I log everything thats its doing. If you want to run logs you will have to get an obd2 datalogger since your are piggybacking the stock ECU.

No megasquirt is the ECU. I log everything thats its doing. If you want to run logs you will have to get an obd2 datalogger since your are piggybacking the stock ECU.


now it makes since...lol

thanks man:grinyes:

"Many sensors require 36" of pipe before the WB02"
From what I've seen between 24" and the cat is pretty much normal. Even then you could actually mount it closer if you use a heat sink and if you wrapped your headers it should be mounted further down stream, it all depends on the heat coming through the exhaust. Depending on the mfg the top temp for the uego is somewhere around 800*-900*f, so really it all depends on your car's setup. Also, if you're replacing the OEM sensors you need to place them in the stock location or the AFR will be off and it'll trip a code as the computer is looking for an AFR change within a certain amount of time from adjusting the fuel ratio.

det can
Never heard of one of these before, did some searching and found a decent write up, here's the link
http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=295450

damn i was just at lowes today...ill go back this weekend...i can spare 30 bucks to make this little gizmo..even though i cant quite tune yet...

:frown:

You look stupid as hell wearing them but they work awesome. I actually made some electric ones with a mic and an old computer speak amp. So now I can wear headphones and adjust the volume. Its great. The only problem with the hose is that its hard to turn your head. Get the most flexible stuff you can find and you will be alright.

thats the coolest thing ive ever heard...lol

if you wouldnt mind...whenver you get a free minute, could you go into detail a bit more about how you made the elec. one? id like to make that myself...

not to steal your idea or anything lol :icon16:

I'm sure you can do it with piezos and a fet amp made from rat shack stuff. You'd need to epoxy the piezos to the block tho. You can find schematics for the amp at rat shack or online. Getting the frequency right to isolate the knock is probably the hardest part. It'd never work as well as a real knock sensor system. But if done right it would definitely work as good or better than a det can. If you used a microprocessor to sort out the signals you could even use an led for warning and not need the headphones.

I'm sure you can do it with piezos and a fet amp made from rat shack stuff. You'd need to epoxy the piezos to the block tho. You can find schematics for the amp at rat shack or online. Getting the frequency right to isolate the knock is probably the hardest part. It'd never work as well as a real knock sensor system. But if done right it would definitely work as good or better than a det can. If you used a microprocessor to sort out the signals you could even use an led for warning and not need the headphones.

When Silvr was explain to me about the whole system I would have used an EQ to sort out the signal by lowering the proper frequency and boost the others needed. Lots of different ways to do it.

I dont do anything with the frequency. I just let it pick up everything and pick out knock. Its very easy to pick out with those on. Here is how I made mine. I got an computer speaker amp, build a preamp for the mic and then used an electret mic I got out of an old phone. Then put a 1/8" jack on it to plug some head phones in. I put a long wire on the mic and taped it into a hose and just slide it on the copper pipe when I tune. I plan on glueing the mic to an alegator clamp and seeing how that works out. I had most of these parts at home so I did it pretty cheap. But if I was you, you could buy something with a mic on it and just extend the wires on the mic. There is a good build up of one, Ill see if I can find it later.