Blower Moter & Resistor
wehkah
08-06-2009, 03:53 AM
So the problems started when we began to loose the lower speeds on our blower. From what we knew we needed to replace the resister to the blower motor. So at the most in oppertune time the heat went out all together on the coldest day of the year. So we had the dealership replace the resistor. Went to go pick it up the next day and the fan was making an aweful sound. You would think that the dealership would have checked the fan seeing as it's in the same place and all. Took the car back the next day and they tell me that the fan is bad and needed to be replaced. They wanted $206 for the new GM blower motor (ya not including labor just the part...). So I opted for them to go to the local parts store for another alternative. They ended up getting the cheapest fan, out of 2, to install (still charged me 50% more than had I picked it up myself). Picked up the car later that day and everything seemed to be working correctly.
About a couple of weeks later we started smelling something hot when running on high. Few more weeks pass and we loose the high setting all together. Take it back into the dealership. They tell us that the high setting is controlled by it's own fuse and that the fuse was blown. Next they recommend that we replace the blower motor that was installed because it was overpowering the resister causing the fuse to blow. Again they recommended replacing it with the GM motor. Instead we had them swap out the one that was purchased because they thought that it might have been just a bad one. Pay for the labor, not a GM part so they still charged us labor. Picked up the car and it seemed fine.
Now about a month and a 1/2 after that repair and I'm having the same issues again. No high, fuse blown and if I replace the fuse it smells like the car is going to start on fire. Dealership still is telling us to put the GM blower in because they feel that's the only way to solve our problem and any after market part is junk, or at least that is the vibe I'm getting. I've already put almost $600 into this repair only for them not to really fix the problem and to top it off not put my dash back together correctly. Can I really trust them with any of their advise? If I have them repair the car again to put the GM part in I'm looking at another possible $400 in repair costs.
PLEASE someone give me your advise. I can get both a new blower motor (higher end than what's in there now) and a new resister from the local parts place all for about $100 and a few hours of my time. Should I replace both parts, one part(which one) or have the dealership do the repair?
About a couple of weeks later we started smelling something hot when running on high. Few more weeks pass and we loose the high setting all together. Take it back into the dealership. They tell us that the high setting is controlled by it's own fuse and that the fuse was blown. Next they recommend that we replace the blower motor that was installed because it was overpowering the resister causing the fuse to blow. Again they recommended replacing it with the GM motor. Instead we had them swap out the one that was purchased because they thought that it might have been just a bad one. Pay for the labor, not a GM part so they still charged us labor. Picked up the car and it seemed fine.
Now about a month and a 1/2 after that repair and I'm having the same issues again. No high, fuse blown and if I replace the fuse it smells like the car is going to start on fire. Dealership still is telling us to put the GM blower in because they feel that's the only way to solve our problem and any after market part is junk, or at least that is the vibe I'm getting. I've already put almost $600 into this repair only for them not to really fix the problem and to top it off not put my dash back together correctly. Can I really trust them with any of their advise? If I have them repair the car again to put the GM part in I'm looking at another possible $400 in repair costs.
PLEASE someone give me your advise. I can get both a new blower motor (higher end than what's in there now) and a new resister from the local parts place all for about $100 and a few hours of my time. Should I replace both parts, one part(which one) or have the dealership do the repair?
thisnametooktolong
08-06-2009, 06:12 AM
that blower should have at least a 90 warrantee
Look most mechanics are not exactly electricians. I have seen problems like this a million times. The original blower motor starts blowing fuses and some one tosses in a larger fuse. The fan works for a week a month or a decade.
Now you have over loaded wires and connectors that are not in good shape, on the control and/or body side. The switches are/can also be suffering from abuse. I bet you a dime to a dollar that the plug for the high is nice and dark from the heat generated by the excess current. Bad connections on motors can and will do some funky things with counter EMF to the motor and even other ckts.
I would make sure that the auto parts store motor is actually a new or rebuilt unit by checking for the logo and or stickers. Then I would check and repair the bad plugs that I found. Many times the plug will be melted down and you can’t just replace the pin inside but the entire connector. If it is melted down it is because the dealer mechanic is just that….. Not an electrician.
After I made the appropriate repairs I would check the current draw of the motor and made sure that it is not higher than 80% of the correct fuse rating. If it was I would replace it…… after all that blower should have at least a 90 warrantee.
The dealer probably will not warrantee the work because the motor is not there’s and the recommended that you not use the part store piece. (Nice way of getting out of the responsibility for inadequate electrical skills.)
So it was did they charge you for a blower 50-100 dollars and then 100 for the repair? Auto parts stores charge $39 OEM blowers with a lifetime guarantee, about $130 for the A/C Delco piece
The last time I saw this type of problem, I told the owner that I had to replace the plugs,,,, they said “no”; the fallowing winter they said, “replace the plug”.
Look most mechanics are not exactly electricians. I have seen problems like this a million times. The original blower motor starts blowing fuses and some one tosses in a larger fuse. The fan works for a week a month or a decade.
Now you have over loaded wires and connectors that are not in good shape, on the control and/or body side. The switches are/can also be suffering from abuse. I bet you a dime to a dollar that the plug for the high is nice and dark from the heat generated by the excess current. Bad connections on motors can and will do some funky things with counter EMF to the motor and even other ckts.
I would make sure that the auto parts store motor is actually a new or rebuilt unit by checking for the logo and or stickers. Then I would check and repair the bad plugs that I found. Many times the plug will be melted down and you can’t just replace the pin inside but the entire connector. If it is melted down it is because the dealer mechanic is just that….. Not an electrician.
After I made the appropriate repairs I would check the current draw of the motor and made sure that it is not higher than 80% of the correct fuse rating. If it was I would replace it…… after all that blower should have at least a 90 warrantee.
The dealer probably will not warrantee the work because the motor is not there’s and the recommended that you not use the part store piece. (Nice way of getting out of the responsibility for inadequate electrical skills.)
So it was did they charge you for a blower 50-100 dollars and then 100 for the repair? Auto parts stores charge $39 OEM blowers with a lifetime guarantee, about $130 for the A/C Delco piece
The last time I saw this type of problem, I told the owner that I had to replace the plugs,,,, they said “no”; the fallowing winter they said, “replace the plug”.
wehkah
08-06-2009, 09:16 AM
Now here's a tricky question... how do I find out what the original rating for that fuse was? Currently they've got a 30amp fuse in there and it keeps blowing. Do you have any suggestion as to how I can find out what kind of ratings the resister has on it? Do you think that the resister and the fan have different outputs/inputs and they're not matched up properly? <-- If that's the case would't you think the mechanic would or should have checked that before installing... I know I know... not an electrician. They sure do get paid enough though.
I can sympathise with you and say that I agree not all auto mechanics are electricians or know much about it (that just seems wrong considering the design of cars now a days). However if there was anything melted because of the overload you would think they'd replace all that??? Right now I'm questioning the "expertice", if you will, of that dealer shop. Here's the kicker... I know that the auto shop has another fan that has a chance to be a better choice to use and I know I can get it for $84. The fan that's in there right now IS under a mfg warranty but the original purchase went through the dealer. If I let the dealer purchase the other one they're going to charge me 50% up charge on the new one. They gave me some run around as to how they didn't think they could just return a part and get their money back... if it's causing a short and it's bad why wouldn't you?? Ya this is what I'm dealing with....
So in your humble opinion you'd replace the fan and see where it leads me? I've got the space and tools to try to tackle it ourselves so I could save myself some heartache and money and I could see what's actually going on down there, melted wires/connectors and such OR I would rather buy the $84 motor myself and have them install it and see what happens. However right now I'm not sure I trust their work at this point.
I can sympathise with you and say that I agree not all auto mechanics are electricians or know much about it (that just seems wrong considering the design of cars now a days). However if there was anything melted because of the overload you would think they'd replace all that??? Right now I'm questioning the "expertice", if you will, of that dealer shop. Here's the kicker... I know that the auto shop has another fan that has a chance to be a better choice to use and I know I can get it for $84. The fan that's in there right now IS under a mfg warranty but the original purchase went through the dealer. If I let the dealer purchase the other one they're going to charge me 50% up charge on the new one. They gave me some run around as to how they didn't think they could just return a part and get their money back... if it's causing a short and it's bad why wouldn't you?? Ya this is what I'm dealing with....
So in your humble opinion you'd replace the fan and see where it leads me? I've got the space and tools to try to tackle it ourselves so I could save myself some heartache and money and I could see what's actually going on down there, melted wires/connectors and such OR I would rather buy the $84 motor myself and have them install it and see what happens. However right now I'm not sure I trust their work at this point.
thisnametooktolong
08-07-2009, 05:40 AM
Before I started replacing anything lets assume (ass-of-U-me) that the Motor is good far a second. An auto motive fuse is usually a 5 second delay at the rated current. So if that fan runs on low and pops a 30 amp fuse like a flash bulb its drawing about 40+ amps. IF it takes about 30seconds it is around 29+ amps and that could be the new motor and or a wire problem.
With the motor unplugged (checking good or bad) go to the High speed blower relay that should be in the relay control center. Yank that puppy out and inspect its general condition comparing it to like relays in the box. Does it look like it was hot? Are the pins nice and shinny?
If you have a noide light, start checking for shorts by connecting one end of the light to the + bat voltage and probing the connector for the relay. With the fuse pulled all of the big pins on relay connector should be open (a VOM is a better choice). With the key off and the climate off the coil contacts should also be open. (but the coil contact runs off the low speed ckt and should not matter) Then check what I mention below. I list a step by step process without a light or VOM but the order and points are the same.
With the relay and motor disconnected I would toss a 6 or 7 amp fuse in the slot for the high speed fan. Get in the car, turn the fan on high wait 60 seconds and see if the fuse is smoked. Did it blow? If it did the problem is from the relay to the fuse block.
Shut the fan off, and toss the relay back in and repeat the check. That 6 or 7 amp fuse should hold no problem. If not the problem is from the relay to the motor plug
If it doesn’t, unplug the resistor block and check it again. If the fuse now holds you have tracked down a problem to the wires from the block to the fan.
Some time in the process I would also check the resistor block plug. Because the resistor block works on the low speeds and the fact that the block is mounted inside a plastic HVAC box, it should not be the culprit.
Check the plugs and wires especially at the motor and the resistor block. Because they are in proximity to the heater box and on the motor those are the ones that go bad first.
If any connector looks smoked…. Replace it. If the motor draws more than 26 amps it is not in the best of shape. You see fusses are not supposed to run at or near the rating. Fuse conduction current close to the rating will blow from minuets to hrs. You can get charts on the expected blow time by checking out the technical specification for fuses on the net. Different sizes and types have different ratings.
There should be two fuses; one that runs everything and the low speeds and that is 25 amps. The high-speed only fuse is 30 amps for the high speed.
when it comes to dealing with the shop.... ask you never know they may or not replace the fan for free..... but they will charge you for finding the bad wires
With the motor unplugged (checking good or bad) go to the High speed blower relay that should be in the relay control center. Yank that puppy out and inspect its general condition comparing it to like relays in the box. Does it look like it was hot? Are the pins nice and shinny?
If you have a noide light, start checking for shorts by connecting one end of the light to the + bat voltage and probing the connector for the relay. With the fuse pulled all of the big pins on relay connector should be open (a VOM is a better choice). With the key off and the climate off the coil contacts should also be open. (but the coil contact runs off the low speed ckt and should not matter) Then check what I mention below. I list a step by step process without a light or VOM but the order and points are the same.
With the relay and motor disconnected I would toss a 6 or 7 amp fuse in the slot for the high speed fan. Get in the car, turn the fan on high wait 60 seconds and see if the fuse is smoked. Did it blow? If it did the problem is from the relay to the fuse block.
Shut the fan off, and toss the relay back in and repeat the check. That 6 or 7 amp fuse should hold no problem. If not the problem is from the relay to the motor plug
If it doesn’t, unplug the resistor block and check it again. If the fuse now holds you have tracked down a problem to the wires from the block to the fan.
Some time in the process I would also check the resistor block plug. Because the resistor block works on the low speeds and the fact that the block is mounted inside a plastic HVAC box, it should not be the culprit.
Check the plugs and wires especially at the motor and the resistor block. Because they are in proximity to the heater box and on the motor those are the ones that go bad first.
If any connector looks smoked…. Replace it. If the motor draws more than 26 amps it is not in the best of shape. You see fusses are not supposed to run at or near the rating. Fuse conduction current close to the rating will blow from minuets to hrs. You can get charts on the expected blow time by checking out the technical specification for fuses on the net. Different sizes and types have different ratings.
There should be two fuses; one that runs everything and the low speeds and that is 25 amps. The high-speed only fuse is 30 amps for the high speed.
when it comes to dealing with the shop.... ask you never know they may or not replace the fan for free..... but they will charge you for finding the bad wires
wehkah
08-07-2009, 12:17 PM
Wow thanks so much! I'll get to work on this hopefully this weekend. Expecially if we get all the rain they're saying we're in for. I'd love to take the day off work today to try it now. You've given me a sence of empowerment to get it done myself! :lol2:
I'll keep you posted on my findings. It's really hard to speculate to find an answer to the problem if you don't take an acutal look at it for youself. :wink:
I'll keep you posted on my findings. It's really hard to speculate to find an answer to the problem if you don't take an acutal look at it for youself. :wink:
thisnametooktolong
08-07-2009, 01:18 PM
I am going on vacation today, I have .......................................
I can’t get back to you until Saturday evening because I will be without a ISP till then.
I am going on vacation, RIGHT NOW. It is not really a vacation for me. The wife and kids, hit the beach as I close down the house ½ block from Wild Wood boardwalk in NJ.. You see I bought the darn thing for a song and a dance… but guess what …. Every one is broke right now so it does not rent for anything like it was suppose to. The realtor wants an arm and a leg, and one tactical to close it for the winter so….. It is not rented for the rest of the month. I am going to go down and doing it a little early this year. I should have an ISP by late SAT
BU BUY MAYbee early sunday
I can’t get back to you until Saturday evening because I will be without a ISP till then.
I am going on vacation, RIGHT NOW. It is not really a vacation for me. The wife and kids, hit the beach as I close down the house ½ block from Wild Wood boardwalk in NJ.. You see I bought the darn thing for a song and a dance… but guess what …. Every one is broke right now so it does not rent for anything like it was suppose to. The realtor wants an arm and a leg, and one tactical to close it for the winter so….. It is not rented for the rest of the month. I am going to go down and doing it a little early this year. I should have an ISP by late SAT
BU BUY MAYbee early sunday
wehkah
08-07-2009, 02:00 PM
Hopefully I'll have some positive feed back for you by then. =-) I'm thinking that because the unit physically smells hot that it wouldn't surprise me if there were some contacts that maybe got too hot or perhaps melted. I just don't trust the work of this dealer repair shop and if the hubby keeps insisting on taking our cars somewhere he better start shopping around for a reputable one that won't yank us around. However I'm sure the best shop is still going to be my garage or my father in law's garage for now. At least there're places I trust. :lol:
Have fun at the beach with the fam!
Have fun at the beach with the fam!
thisnametooktolong
08-08-2009, 08:02 AM
Just remember that everyone makes mistakes. The reputable garage will admit it and repair the problem that they made/missed
wehkah
08-08-2009, 10:47 AM
In this case they haven't been really nice about the whole thing cause we refuse to pay for the WAY over priced GM part. I found a GM dealer online and they sell the new blower motor for about $100 and the shop wants to charge us $206 just for the part. Seems to be pretty standard to mark up all of their parts, regardless of quality, 50%. I can understand a 30% or something like that but when you're talking twice the price of the acutal part.... that's just not cool.
wehkah
08-10-2009, 01:38 AM
You're going to love this one!
So after a very busy weekend I finally got to the car. I did as you suggested with the 6-7amp fuse. The following were the combinations I tried:
1. Relay only - Fuse didn't blow
2. Relay & Resistor - Fuse didn't blow
3. Resistor Only - Fuse didn't blow
4. Relay & Fan, no resistor - Fuse blew instantly
Just to test I put in a 30amp fuse (what it should have) and watched. Fan started to smoke (again no resistor hooked up at this time) and smelled like burning plastic. So I thought simple, the fan is the reason it's blowing the circut. I pulled it out and inspected it. Looked brand new, as it should seeing that it's the 3rd one (including OEM) that's been in that car. For giggles I thought I wanted to see it smoke now that it wasn't mounted up. So I plugged it in and waited... waited... waited... No smoke. Infact it didn't even smell hot. I thought that was weird. Under the dash I went. Tried to see if there was anything that was obstructing it. Nothing difinitive. Still puzzled. So I let it run some more, longer this time. Still no smoke, perfect running condition. So I reinstalled the fan. As I'm reinstalling the fan I noticed that the plate had a specific groove in it to match up with the car. So that's how I orientated it. Instaintly I noticed the sticker that the MFG put on the fan for it's ratings and such was no longer in the front like when I took it out, it was in the back! Curious... ran the fan again now installed. No instant smoke, no instant smell of burning plastic. Urika was this it! We'll find out. Thus far working perfectly. Would make sense to me that if the fan was dragging just slightly at that high of speed it would cause a resistance enough to eventually smoke the circuit. However now I believe the integrity of the motor has been compromized with the drag so it probably lessened the life of the motor and/or bearings. Husband says I should call the dealership in the morning and tell them my findings to see if we can get the motor exchanged for the same one seeing as they purchased it in the first place. This time I'll do the work knowing that it will be placed in correctly this time.
Amazing the things you can figure out when you do it yourself. :wink:
So after a very busy weekend I finally got to the car. I did as you suggested with the 6-7amp fuse. The following were the combinations I tried:
1. Relay only - Fuse didn't blow
2. Relay & Resistor - Fuse didn't blow
3. Resistor Only - Fuse didn't blow
4. Relay & Fan, no resistor - Fuse blew instantly
Just to test I put in a 30amp fuse (what it should have) and watched. Fan started to smoke (again no resistor hooked up at this time) and smelled like burning plastic. So I thought simple, the fan is the reason it's blowing the circut. I pulled it out and inspected it. Looked brand new, as it should seeing that it's the 3rd one (including OEM) that's been in that car. For giggles I thought I wanted to see it smoke now that it wasn't mounted up. So I plugged it in and waited... waited... waited... No smoke. Infact it didn't even smell hot. I thought that was weird. Under the dash I went. Tried to see if there was anything that was obstructing it. Nothing difinitive. Still puzzled. So I let it run some more, longer this time. Still no smoke, perfect running condition. So I reinstalled the fan. As I'm reinstalling the fan I noticed that the plate had a specific groove in it to match up with the car. So that's how I orientated it. Instaintly I noticed the sticker that the MFG put on the fan for it's ratings and such was no longer in the front like when I took it out, it was in the back! Curious... ran the fan again now installed. No instant smoke, no instant smell of burning plastic. Urika was this it! We'll find out. Thus far working perfectly. Would make sense to me that if the fan was dragging just slightly at that high of speed it would cause a resistance enough to eventually smoke the circuit. However now I believe the integrity of the motor has been compromized with the drag so it probably lessened the life of the motor and/or bearings. Husband says I should call the dealership in the morning and tell them my findings to see if we can get the motor exchanged for the same one seeing as they purchased it in the first place. This time I'll do the work knowing that it will be placed in correctly this time.
Amazing the things you can figure out when you do it yourself. :wink:
thisnametooktolong
08-12-2009, 01:19 PM
Congratulations:
You are smarter than the last 3 factory trained mechanics that installed the fan wrong 3 times! All that with just a little help from a certified Appalachian hillbilly. Not that I actually approved of you doing the fuse swapping thing, but hay it worked. You actually proved that GED does stand for get-er-done.
On the minus side you now have to wear nothing but a pocket T-shirt and an unbuttoned flannel shirt….. any color that does not match.
You are smarter than the last 3 factory trained mechanics that installed the fan wrong 3 times! All that with just a little help from a certified Appalachian hillbilly. Not that I actually approved of you doing the fuse swapping thing, but hay it worked. You actually proved that GED does stand for get-er-done.
On the minus side you now have to wear nothing but a pocket T-shirt and an unbuttoned flannel shirt….. any color that does not match.
wehkah
08-13-2009, 10:34 AM
Ha ha ha! Very funny. Guess the motor was compromised because it's been running well but I guess on start up it has a little bit of trouble getting started. So I'll probably have to change it eventually. The good thing is that I know how to change it and it's not hard at all! The bad part is that I know the blower motor is under warranty but the dealership won't just replace the part without seeing the car first. They give me the line that THEY have to determine what's wrong with the fan so that they can return it. They just can't take someone else's word for it. :screwy: Aparently everyone else must be idiots... however they can't put a blower fan in correctly (on 3 attempts might I add)... who's the idiot again???
Knowing that I've paid for that blower motor twice with the dealer mark up it sucks that I'm going to have to pay for another one just to insure that it gets done right. Now I could have them look at the car and replace the blower and just not run it until I get home and inspect it myself... but on the other hand if I've got to get under there and look at it myself I might as well do it myself right??
Knowing that I've paid for that blower motor twice with the dealer mark up it sucks that I'm going to have to pay for another one just to insure that it gets done right. Now I could have them look at the car and replace the blower and just not run it until I get home and inspect it myself... but on the other hand if I've got to get under there and look at it myself I might as well do it myself right??
thisnametooktolong
08-13-2009, 04:46 PM
exactly:
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