I need constructive criticism...

Please let me know a few things about this build:


What you see I did right.
What you see I did wrong.
Where I could improve.
How I could improve what needs it.
Thanks for the help!

Daniel

EDIT: The fuzzy shot of the roof is intended to show the smoothness of the paint job...

From what I've seen it looks great, but you need to give us some better pics if you want some criticism. However if there is any criticism to be made it'll be minuscule because it looks awesome.

I don't see anything that sticks out as being sub-par. You did a really good job.

Better photography helps.

from what I can see
i) take care when handling the model and try your best to keep your hands clean and grease free; i spy some finger prints on the glasswork.

ii) this may be a result of the model kit by way of neccessary construction or not deep enough panel lines but take care when darkening panel lines. In most cases, it helps to re-scribe panel lines to deepen them or to re-define them if it is when two kit parts join. If you have gotten some glue "smudging" where the parts meet, take the time to clean it up and refine the panel lines.

iii) relating to the above; if you are having trouble with panel line depths, as said above, take the time to re-scribe them deeper prior to painting. Panel line defintion is another reason to go easy when painting. Often, it is tempting to over spray a model as a thicker coat looks shinier than a thinner coat of paint and as a result, panel lines get drowned out. If your paint is too thick, it also tends to pool around areas when there is a change in surface depth which makes panel line washing trickier/messier.

iv) Still relating to panel lines. I'm not sure if black is ever the best colour for panel lines. I tend to use a watered down clear Smoke (Tamiya) or Skaven Brown (Games Workshop/Citadel).

v) Because of the nature of cast clear plastic parts, they are always going to be out of scale in their thickness. To remedy this, most people will paint the edges of the piece with semi-gloss black (or flat; your choice) toserves as replicating rubber gasket/seal and to sort of hide the thickness of the clear part. Another solution is to sand the edges to form a bevelled edge. I tend to sand the edges anyway to ais paint adhesion so at the same time, I tend to bevel the edges slightly anyway.

vi) You may want to think about thinning the edges of any open holes. Again, because of the plastic casting, the kit is always going to much too thick to represent the real car which tends to be more notice-able(?) around openings. A little shave does wonders.

vii) while a nice and shiny photo-etched brake disk might look nice, it isn't 100% accurate. Also, the grooves should be darkened by way of a wash of some sort anyway.



general tip.
sometimes, when there are small bits to add to bodywork like the little fillets on the nose and side, glue/cement may not be the best way. Think about drilling a small hole in the body and fixing brass rod to pin to the body instead. You can then feed some (a very tiny amount) superglue to the reverse side of the body to fix it without fear of the glue/cement reacting to the paint.

Also bear in mind that because this is online, all we have to go by are your photographs. As a result, your photography actually forms a part of your overall modelling skill-set. A good photo can make the car look better than you think and hide more mistakes than you care to show. It may sound simple but have a look at how the better models here and one thing you'll spot is that they all seem to know how to take a good photo of their models.

For starters, do not post thumbnail links. Post the actual images in your thread. (And better pics would of course be helpful).

Constructive criticism is a good thing to ask for. But you really need to meet us half way. Tell us about your build. Tell us everything about your build. Tell us what you did, tell us how you did it and with what, tell us what you wanted to do. Most importantly, tell us what you think. Did it go well, did it not go as well as you wanted? What are you happy with, and unhappy with? What do you want to learn? And what do you want to teach...?

If you take a car to a mechanic and ask him to fix it, he will ask you what is wrong with it. If you say to him "you find out and tell me", he will probably tell you to go away and kindly not wast his time (or he will charge you like crazy).

There is a great deal of knowledge here, and some very helpful people. But if you can't be bothered to say what you think, why should we?

Better photography helps.

from what I can see
i) take care when handling the model and try your best to keep your hands clean and grease free; i spy some finger prints on the glasswork.

ii) this may be a result of the model kit by way of neccessary construction or not deep enough panel lines but take care when darkening panel lines. In most cases, it helps to re-scribe panel lines to deepen them or to re-define them if it is when two kit parts join. If you have gotten some glue "smudging" where the parts meet, take the time to clean it up and refine the panel lines.

iii) relating to the above; if you are having trouble with panel line depths, as said above, take the time to re-scribe them deeper prior to painting. Panel line defintion is another reason to go easy when painting. Often, it is tempting to over spray a model as a thicker coat looks shinier than a thinner coat of paint and as a result, panel lines get drowned out. If your paint is too thick, it also tends to pool around areas when there is a change in surface depth which makes panel line washing trickier/messier.

iv) Still relating to panel lines. I'm not sure if black is ever the best colour for panel lines. I tend to use a watered down clear Smoke (Tamiya) or Skaven Brown (Games Workshop/Citadel).

v) Because of the nature of cast clear plastic parts, they are always going to be out of scale in their thickness. To remedy this, most people will paint the edges of the piece with semi-gloss black (or flat; your choice) toserves as replicating rubber gasket/seal and to sort of hide the thickness of the clear part. Another solution is to sand the edges to form a bevelled edge. I tend to sand the edges anyway to ais paint adhesion so at the same time, I tend to bevel the edges slightly anyway.

vi) You may want to think about thinning the edges of any open holes. Again, because of the plastic casting, the kit is always going to much too thick to represent the real car which tends to be more notice-able(?) around openings. A little shave does wonders.

vii) while a nice and shiny photo-etched brake disk might look nice, it isn't 100% accurate. Also, the grooves should be darkened by way of a wash of some sort anyway.



general tip.
sometimes, when there are small bits to add to bodywork like the little fillets on the nose and side, glue/cement may not be the best way. Think about drilling a small hole in the body and fixing brass rod to pin to the body instead. You can then feed some (a very tiny amount) superglue to the reverse side of the body to fix it without fear of the glue/cement reacting to the paint.

Also bear in mind that because this is online, all we have to go by are your photographs. As a result, your photography actually forms a part of your overall modelling skill-set. A good photo can make the car look better than you think and hide more mistakes than you care to show. It may sound simple but have a look at how the better models here and one thing you'll spot is that they all seem to know how to take a good photo of their models.

Thanks, Monkey. A couple of things that may not be evident at first glance. First, the brakes on these cars are quite shiny, but the photo doesn't do them justice. They have been washed with a thinned flat black. The flash just "washes" it out.

Photography is not my hobby. Modelling is. :sarcasm1:

I don't quite understand V. Please explain. Thanks.

I don't know where you may have seen a fingerprint, because I just looked at it and didn't see one...:eek7:

Related to what's below, I have learned more about panel lines. Trust me. :banghead:

I will say that this isn't my best work. I've got several more in "production" that will be much, much better, as I've learned as I've gone along. This model was completed well over a year ago. I started getting back into modelling around that time after a 15 year absence.

What spurred me into this is that I entered a contest this past weekend and didn't do very well. This particular model was judged from 3 feet away and is obviously curbside.

This is only my second entry into a contest, but I have many years of reading and studying up on others' techniques. A frustration is that I didn't see what the judges saw. Maybe the panel lines weren't "clean" enough? Hmm.

For starters, do not post thumbnail links. Post the actual images in your thread. (And better pics would of course be helpful).

Constructive criticism is a good thing to ask for. But you really need to meet us half way. Tell us about your build. Tell us everything about your build. Tell us what you did, tell us how you did it and with what, tell us what you wanted to do. Most importantly, tell us what you think. Did it go well, did it not go as well as you wanted? What are you happy with, and unhappy with? What do you want to learn? And what do you want to teach...?

If you take a car to a mechanic and ask him to fix it, he will ask you what is wrong with it. If you say to him "you find out and tell me", he will probably tell you to go away and kindly not wast his time (or he will charge you like crazy).

There is a great deal of knowledge here, and some very helpful people. But if you can't be bothered to say what you think, why should we?

I never thought I "couldn't be bothered to say what I think..." I just wished to get people's thoughts. If I've ticked you off from not saying this initially, then I hope other, "very helpful people" will help instead.

What's wrong with thumbnail links? I don't get what's so incredibly wrong with them. God forbid that pics not be inserted into text...

As I stated above, this is admittedly not my best work. I finished this well over a year ago, but have been sick, so my modelling has been limited. My work with P/E and details were in its infancy at this time. (The only p/e detail I used were some bolts and hood/body fasteners along with some wiring in the cockpit.) I had been working with CF decals and had a good working knowledge of what real CF looks like and how decals need to be darkened up, etc.

This was my first attempt at using a p/e brake set. As I stated above, you can't tell that this is darkened, but it is. The slots are washed to bring the depth out.

Probably the thing that was the worst about the car are the panel lines on the hood. For some reason, it just didn't work. I used SRC's scriber blades to deepen the panel lines and it still came out shallow.

I thought the paint came out well. I used my airbrush to spray TS 49 and TS 17 (or whatever the silver color was). I wasn't disappointed with this aspect of it.

Again, you can't see it, but the lettering on the tires was washed with flat black to make it more like "real" tires that have been unceremoniously sprayed on and have been subject to the grime that are on most race tires and tires in general.

I thought the CF on the car turned out well.

I hope that's helpful.

Photography is not my hobby. Modelling is. :sarcasm1:

Yep, but I fully agree with DM, I add: there are plenty of crappy odious things we do modelling: and skipping those we can't achieve our goal: sand at die, polish with compound for hours, to use parts smaller than a needle bit.... do good shots (I dunno meant ART shots: I mean a decent light set up and a good focus) is part of our modeling skills, but is also NEEDED if you ask opinions ;) :sarcasm1::sarcasm1::sarcasm1:

To scribe panel lines help you to achieve a "realistic" appeal: real car has eventually accurate and costant panel lines and a finishing that we would call in 1/24 "thin" (so the opposite of a thick paint, noticeable on corners and shar lines)

TBH the back side looks no bad (despite grills are horrible in my opinion) but in front you messed almost all panels: you may do very few if you lost the line sanding or putting...: so my honest criticism would be that: I think I wouldn't comment your work if you posted as a regular "finished" job: sure is not bad, but not as good to push me to leave a positive comment, may be things gone so also at contest: model wasn't bad but they sure saw something more interesting.

Would be better next one ;)

ciao
gio

I may have been wrong on the fingerprint point; I might be looking at a not too shiney bit of carbon effect decal.
My bad.

with regards to point v)
Clear parts in a model kit are always going to too thick.
There are two options to remedy this
i) hide the thickness by painting it black.
This serves two purposes as it hides the thickness and can also be used to simulate the rubber seals you have on some light units. This adds a certain bit of realism so to speak.

or you can

ii) actually thin the clear plastic.
Usually, it is only the edges of tha plastic where you can see the thickness of the part so you can usually get away with just sanding/thinning the edges of clear parts. When used in conjunction with painted black edges, adds realism.

Unless someone beats me to it, I'll post some pics tomorrow.

I may have been wrong on the fingerprint point; I might be looking at a not too shiney bit of carbon effect decal.
My bad.

with regards to point v)
Clear parts in a model kit are always going to too thick.
There are two options to remedy this
i) hide the thickness by painting it black.
This serves two purposes as it hides the thickness and can also be used to simulate the rubber seals you have on some light units. This adds a certain bit of realism so to speak.

or you can

ii) actually thin the clear plastic.
Usually, it is only the edges of tha plastic where you can see the thickness of the part so you can usually get away with just sanding/thinning the edges of clear parts. When used in conjunction with painted black edges, adds realism.

Unless someone beats me to it, I'll post some pics tomorrow.

I guess what I don't understand is this: Where does this apply to this car?

TBH the back side looks no bad (despite grills are horrible in my opinion)

Gio,

I realize your english may not be the best, but what do you mean by the above? Are you talking about what I did, or the kit in general?

Those pics are really bad for trying to judge a model.

Only thing I can see is the jagged panel line work that takes away from the overall model quality.

All in all, it looks pretty good. The shots from the rear look excellent. The ones from the front, something just strikes me as not so good. Can't place what it is. Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means knocking your model. I did notice some waves in the panel lines on your hood. Don't let things like that discourage you, just learn from them, modify your techniques to suit you. I think what MPWR was referring to with the thumbnails is, a lot of us don't have a lot of time to spend on the board, so if you post the pictures in the thread, then you are more likely to get more responses. If you don't have a photobucket or fotki, sign up, they are free, and its about the same amount of time and effort to post the image link for it to show up as it is to go through the trouble of attaching each image individually. As for the brakes and tires. They do seem a bit shiny. If your budget allows it, look into dry transfers or maybe some stencil sets for the tire letting. Not sure if stencils are available for all different types of tires though. The brakes show a bit shiny in the pictures but that is from the flash. Next time you get some sun outside, take it outside and get us some pictures in the sunlight. This will help avoid the flash drowning out details. Also visit the FAQ if you haven't already, see if some of the photo taking features are available on your camera, such as a macro setting, as well as white balance and focal length, all of these play a HUGE part in photographing our scale masterpieces (if it isn't in the FAQ, try a couple of forum searches, it has been covered several times over on photography). The key with the photography and getting used to using your camera, especially if you want us to help out where competitions are concerned, then its important to help us see what the judges see, and this can only be done by improved photography.

On the contest side of things. I don't know that you will run into a 100% impartial judge at ANY competition. They will always lean to a certain subject or brand or such. However with the proper details and attention to, you can over come this. The last contest I entered, I entered the following 2 cars in the asphalt competition (NASCAR) category.

Essentially OOB 1995 Winston Select Car
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a218/black2002ls/1995%20Silver%20Select/1bf4beff.jpg
More here (http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a218/black2002ls/1995%20Silver%20Select/

And this, Wrangler Monte Carlo that was highly detailed (granted it was done on a budget)
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a218/black2002ls/Pass%20In%20The%20Grass%20Monte%20Carlo/2006_0701Image0029.jpg
More Here (http://s12.photobucket.com/albums/a218/black2002ls/Pass%20In%20The%20Grass%20Monte%20Carlo/)

The silver select car took 3rd place and the wrangler car didn't get so much as a mention. So when it comes to the contest, unless you walk in thinking your car is without a doubt a class winner BEFORE you see the other subjects, its not going to be an easy day.

As for MPWR's comment, I think he meant more along the lines of wanting you to give us some areas to criticize. Some details you aren't sure of, provide some techniques that you used for those details. This all helps up analyze what you've done and maybe help you find a new method.

Now with all of that said, this was done a year ago. I think I read into your comments that you have done SOME modeling since then. Post up some WIP threads, it will be much easier for us to give you some pointers there!

GOOD LUCK!

ahh, right.

Mainly the light lenses and in your case, the rear.

Have a look at the attached photo.


Around the rear light is a darker line.
What people tend to do to replicate this is to simply paint the edge of the light black.
That's all I meant.
The rest of the blurb is a more general rambling about how it relates to car modelling in general.

Looking at the photo DM just posted and the rear of your car. You could have made an improvement on the vents. I would have tried to open up the vents on the model, all the way out to the body panel. (you can see how they are stepped, basically remove the stepped portion with sanding sticks and files) Then I would have have thinned the edges of the body and attached some mesh across the entire opening. If done correctly this could score major points with the judges.

Looking at the photo DM just posted and the rear of your car. You could have made an improvement on the vents. I would have tried to open up the vents on the model, all the way out to the body panel. (you can see how they are stepped, basically remove the stepped portion with sanding sticks and files) Then I would have have thinned the edges of the body and attached some mesh across the entire opening. If done correctly this could score major points with the judges.

Thanks for the comments.

First, I didn't walk in and think I would even place. What I'm looking for is why I didn't, since the judges were pretty much up to their arses in the work they had to do...

Looking back and monday morning quarterbacking, I should have changed the rear a bit. I was going on NO references, something I have changed since then. Same for the rear lights.

(I do have a current WIP, my first, in motorcycles. Feel free to visit and comment.)

And I also just noticed that the clear part on the rear bumper isn't a light...

In which case, what the guy above me just said - thinning the plastic around the opening would've done wonders for the appearance of the car. As would have replacing that awful (not your fault) clear plastic part.

And I also just noticed that the clear part on the rear bumper isn't a light...

In which case, what the guy above me just said - thinning the plastic around the opening would've done wonders for the appearance of the car. As would have replacing that awful (not your fault) clear plastic part.

I see that now. It's something I now would catch, as I would see it in ref pics. Back then, I would take Tamiya's word as gospel for everything and just improve on what they had (for instance, the rear screens--in the kit it's a decal, but I added p/e mesh to it, not realizing that the mes is at the end of the air tunnel...:banghead:

I guess what I don't understand is this: Where does this apply to this car?
This is what DM means by painting the surrounding edge of a clear part.
The top one is unpainted, and the bottom one is painted.
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=502/2825r35t206.jpg
In the top photo, notice the thickness-side appears as a hazy white line along the edge where it meets the hood and the front bumper? Real headlight cover isn't that thick, so it spoils the looks. I usually take the easier approach of painting the edge with a black marker.

This is what DM means by painting the surrounding edge of a clear part.
The top one is unpainted, and the bottom one is painted.
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=502/2825r35t206.jpg
In the top photo, notice the thickness-side appears as a hazy white line along the edge where it meets the hood and the front bumper? Real headlight cover isn't that thick, so it spoils the looks. I usually take the easier approach of painting the edge with a black marker.

Yes, once they said it was for the tail lights, I understood, but thanks for the pics. That really shows what the effect is. That does help...

Daniel

Dude count yourself lucky!! You have some of the heavy hitters
commenting on your build.(lol) Its always a bonus when the really good
modelers share their expertise.Looks good to me. But as I read their comments
and clicked back to pic.. I understood exactly what they were talking about.
They noticed stuff I didnt.So take heed and build on!!!!!!!1

Dude count yourself lucky!! You have some of the heavy hitters
commenting on your build.(lol) Its always a bonus when the really good
modelers share their expertise.Looks good to me. But as I read their comments
and clicked back to pic.. I understood exactly what they were talking about.
They noticed stuff I didnt.So take heed and build on!!!!!!!1

Thanks, Guiwee. I am very critical of my builds, which builds a fire under me to get better and keep learning. I have been at the top of some of my other hobbies that I can't do anymore (auto racing). By being at the top, you want to be that good and have that feeling back in any endeavor you decide to. Now, do I think I'll be a "master builder"? No. Do I think I'll be very good if I continue to follow other's comments here and other sites? Yep.

This hobby is more like golf than anyone knows--always looking for that perfect round. And when you get it, you want to do it again. Just replace "round" with "build" and you get modelling.

I did realize that the major weakness (after sleeping on it) is the front panel lines. For some reason, they were just uber shallow, and that didn't allow the thinned out black to flow into the grooves. I have learned my lesson and will make sure and trench out the next one heavily...

Thanks for all the guidance. As I said before, this isn't my best work. Please don't think that this is the best I can do. I wish I would have posed a WIP on my Jag XJR9. I think most would think differently of my work, had they seen it...:lol2:

Daniel

I can't critique....your work is better than mine, it looks really nice to me! :bigthumb:
The only thing I might say....your fellow statesman, Nicky Haden might be a bit dissapointed to see you have a Rossi profile pic! lol:twak:
Keep up the good work!:cheers:

I'd like to say the kit overall is very well done, particularly I don't like black panel lines, mixing colors is way better than black, like drunken monkey said.
Did you sand the body after the first or second clear coat? Doing that minimize the steps between the decals and body paint, I can't see the others decals because the pictures aren't really clear, but the second one I can see the Tamiya and 2.0 decals steps.
I prefer to use stencils instead tire decals, but in this case a gloss coat layer before and after the decal job helps to hide the decal glue, after that matte coat to a real tire look. Finish with a slight coat of Smoke (Tamiya) or Super Clear Gray (Mr Model).
The valves looks a little oversized to me.
When picture has a lot red color try to save in "gif" format.
Almeida

The valves looks a little oversized to me.


That's what I noticed as well. They look about twice as big as they should.

In regards to model shows....never be shy about asking a judge why things went the way they did in a category....just approach them with politness and respect(whether they deserve it or not) and they will probably tell you more than you ever wanted to know.

Also, NEVER base your satisfaction of how you're doing at shows\contests...build for yourself and no one else. Competition is fun, but you need to remember every model judge out there isn't perfect, and in fact some are complete idiots, even at the national level.

That's what I noticed as well. They look about twice as big as they should.

In regards to model shows....never be shy about asking a judge why things went the way they did in a category....just approach them with politness and respect(whether they deserve it or not) and they will probably tell you more than you ever wanted to know.

Also, NEVER base your satisfaction of how you're doing at shows\contests...build for yourself and no one else. Competition is fun, but you need to remember every model judge out there isn't perfect, and in fact some are complete idiots, even at the national level.

Thanks, Lump. I try not to base my satisfaction on anyone else's thoughts or actions--that only leads to dissatisfaction and burn out.

Even though it looks large in the pic, the valve stem is homemade and is close to the size of the turned pieces that are out there from well known manufacturers...maybe that's off, maybe it's the pic, maybe it's just me. Who knows. From now on I'll try and use turned parts, as they're just a bit more detailed.

Thanks for all your comments. I really appreciate it and have already put a lot of them to good use in upcoming projects! (My Ferrari 641 and the other 1/12 scale F1 cars I got for a steal come to mind...)

Daniel