LS Engine is on its way

Well, I took the plunge. My new motor will be here on Wednesday.
2004 LS1 w/44K miles.

So, if you know anyone needing a 4.6L Ford Motor - please send them my way - Im willing to make a great deal for someone so I can get it out of the garage.

Hope everyone is well!!

Devin are you going the carbed route like eric or sticking with the FI?

David

Devin are you going the carbed route like eric or sticking with the FI?

David

Hey David, I will be going the Carb route. Debating on the Holley or the ProForm.

i have a spare 650 demon if you want one (it might be a 750 but need to check numbers)?

i have a spare 650 demon if you want one (it might be a 750 but need to check numbers)?

Thanks Brian, let me know what you have and how much.

OK, here is the ever-aging, always debated question. I have been getting flack from my friends on considering a Carb setup vs EFI.

Since I value the opinion of our members - I pose to you.
Carb - why / why not
EFI - why / why not

__________________________

Carb - why / why not
Why

KISS - Less parts
See above - less weight, less complexity, makes more power on the high end, but marginal
Why Not

Not as smooth in lower RPM operation
Can't optimize itself for atmospheric changes. You can either tune/re-jet it every day or pick a good middle of the road tune like we have.
EFI - why / why not
Why

More power under the curve as it is better optimized at every RPM
Better low RPM operation
Self-adjusts to all weather conditions
Why Not

More parts, more complexity, if something goes wrong you have no way to pull engine codes or diagnose.
For our application we went car to just keep it easy... less parts, less weight, etc. The car doesn't need to put around down and have good low speed drivability... it just needs to do good things north of 3000 rpms.

After the BS we went through a few months back I was annoyed w/ it all, but now that it's setup properly I don't regret it at all. For these cars I'm a fan of keeping it simple.

Great reply Brian, really boiled it down to the basic pros and cons. Carbs are basically cheaper IF you are starting from scratch. If Devin is getting the efi , harness and computer with the motor, that turns around.

I have a 302 Mustang (mostly street, some HPDE). I've been playing around with the carborator for a month with a low speed stumble and have had it on and off and apart about six times. It's a DP 650 and I think I might have got most of it ironed out, but it's not perfect. Nature of the beast with the power valve metering it comes with. Started with a blown power valve and I really screwed it up with accelorator pump fiddling thinking it was getting too big a shot. Really got to read up on these and take it step by step. I still think it is jetted too rich for the setup, but that is a whole other story that will take a lot of careful trial and error to get right.

Devin, my thought is to check with Eric (too fast #62) and see how his came out with the carb and if he had any tune issues.

I'm convinced there is no substitute for a good day on a chassis dyno with a carb expert and lots of parts when you are in uncharted waters or you got yourself way out of wack in several areas for carb adjustment. Wish I had access to that where I live. Sure would make primary and secondary jetting easier as well as modifying the DP power valve circuit for driveability.

As an aside, I have pieced together info from several good Holley operation and tuning guides on the net into one document I think is really good, accurate and complete. Much of the advice I found on a number of forums is garbage or not understandable and ofter incomplete or contradictory. Lots of guys (like me) think they know what works based on past experience or info picked up from other graduates of bad experiences. I was and they are wrong in many cases and need a good grounding in how and why these things work and how the adjustments interact.

Anyone wanting a copy, send me a PM with your email. It's about 40 pages with lots of pictures and info that wouldn't apply to every application, but helps a guy understand these rascals before you tear into them doing things that just make things worse. Much of it would apply to the Holley based variants such a Demon, ProForm, etc.

Mike

Yeah for tuning we had it at Performance Autospot on their dyno w/ their "carb guy" doing it all.

great input. Thanks!!!!

Eric and I garage mates.... :o)

FYI you can get a conversion kit to use a real distributor w/ the LSX vs. the way Eric did it. I have no experience w/ it but I know it exists.

http://dcazin.c4-motorsports.com/LS1Engine/

Thar she blows

What'd that come out of... the PS setup and alternator location isn't Corvette. GTO?

yep. GTO. was wondering if anyone would catch that.

That power steering setup looks like it may work. That would be a plus.
They make so
e slick dry sump set ups for the ls motor that has the pump attached to the pan so you don't need scavange lines.

Thanks Brian, let me know what you have and how much.

From what I can tell from this chart on the Barry Grants website:
http://www.barrygrant.com/demon/default.aspx?page=38

I have a "40" stamped into the top of the center section of the carb. So, I have a Mighty Demon 750 cfm carb.

http://www.barrygrant.com/demon/default.aspx?page=14

it comes with an AN Fuel line kit installed. Also, we just had our engine builder clean and rebuild them since we left fuel in them and they got a little gummed up inside.

So from what I can see these sell at Jegs for $550 plus $70 for the fuel line kit. I have 2 of these carbs that both have less then 20 hrs. on them. We took them off because they were producing an EASY 600 FWHP with a restricted intake and exhaust, and that was way too much when we decided to tune our cars for ST1. We put on a 390 restrictor carb.

I looked on ebay for some recent sales and they had some stuff similar and they sold for low $400 plus shipping. So how about $450 shipped?

Here is a link to the users manual.
http://www.barrygrant.com/fromBarryGrant/Demon%20Instruction%20Manuals/MIGHTY%20Demon%20Manual-08.pdf

Done yet? ;-)

Done yet? ;-)

yea....
where are my pics?

yea....
where are my pics?

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=106995&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=106991&g2_serialNumber=2

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=107007&g2_serialNumber=2

and the great comparison shot....

http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=107004&g2_serialNumber=2

All the pics are here
http://www.extremespeedonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=106988

One of you guys hurry up and drive w/ the manual steering. I'm strongly considering doing this but would like some feedback first!

One of you guys hurry up and drive w/ the manual steering. I'm strongly considering doing this but would like some feedback first!

Ive driven it around the paddock, does that count? Feel nice! I will know more Sept 10th hopefully

nice pics - thanks!!

Woo Hoo - it's in.
Hoping to fire it up this week when I get back from work travels, then off to the Dyno!

http://dcazin.c4-motorsports.com/LS1/IMG00199-20091017-1447%20%5b1024x768%5d.jpg

Looks awesome! LMK how you like the manual steering.