Brasilian GP 2003

What are your thoughts on the Brasilian GP, will it be the same turmoil and unexpected result as the previous two races, or will the teams be adapting to the new rules?

What do you hope to see in qualifying, will Renault suprise us again, or will it be somebody else's turn?

I hope to see a red whitewash - both in qualifying and in the race. That is, if Bridgestone get their ass in gear. If not - one of the Mclaren guys, depending on whose engine doesn't blow up ;) So first choice - Schumi, second - Kimi.

Alexi :D

I would say Schu is due!:)

McLaren all the way, if kimi wins hes gonna be champion. If not a kimi win then DC will. would love to see a BAR up there somewhere and lets see the renaults at it again. get in there

If it's dry the race could be anybody's. If it's wet then Schumacher Snr. has no chance.

Originally posted by RallyRaider
If it's wet then Schumacher Snr. has no chance.

:confused:

I don't get what you mean there Phil......

Schumi has never won a wet Brazilian GP. He is supposed to be the rain master but for some reason never goes well in the rain at Interlagos. Remember his being lapped in 1996 or shown up by Coulthard of all people in 2001.

Hopefully Brigestone won't give Ferrari a tyre to change history! Or if they do, Barrichello is allowed to fight on home ground.

Maybe because his traction control has never worked well there since he started F1.

Qualifying 1 just started, and it's wet. And Kimi is 30 seconds into his fast lap :) TTY after the qualifying

We might be in for a VERY unpredictable Friday qualifying result - it's wet, but it's not raining and it's actually drying! Go Minardi! :D

I take that back - it's raining again and it is obvious from MS's and Trulli's laptimes.

LOL! @ Button's spin. Took two markers off and redflagged the session. :hehe:

Hope you don't get dizzy from all the posts and subsequent pics in sigs and the prancing avater ;)

:huh:

:huh::huh:

Webber, Rubens, Kimi, DC, MS, Panis, JV, the rest. Yes, I said Webber. :huh: But the track was drying rapidly, and Webber's and Panis's times show it. We'll see what happens tomorrow. :huh:

Somebody forgot to tell Webber what car he is driving I guess:rolleyes:

Excellent effort from Webber! He went out just after Pizzonia and just before Panis, yet was two and a half seconds faster than the pair of them. Can't really make any comparison with the front runners since they went out in different conditions.

What of this new rule to only bring one type of wet weather tyre to a race? Seems both Michelin and Bridgestone brought only an intermediate tyre, not full wets. Some of the drivers wanted qualifying called off because they thought the tyres weren't safe! What if it buckets down during the race tomorrow and the field is left languishing on dangerously inappropriate rubber? After at all the supposed focus on safety the FIA allow this situation to arrise. Stupid.

Wholeheartedly agree, Phil. Very stupid. :mad:

This has me wondering what they will do if it rains in the race, they can't race in pouring rain on intermediates, so will they do a 'Nascar' and call the cars in for safety reasons, or will Max and the fools in charge try to make them to race......in which case the sensible ones will probably abort and somebody brave/stupid enough to drive around on the wrong tires in the rain will win what will in essence be a totally ridiculous race.

And the winner of the 2003 Brazillian GP is... the Safety Car! :hehe:

Would that mean McLaren-Mercedes get the constructors points? :hehehe:

Originally posted by RallyRaider

Would that mean McLaren-Mercedes get the constructors points? :hehehe:

I would have no objection;)

Good job by Rubens to take the pole position, happy to see David in second, some Webber guy in third though:rolleyes: and Kimi in fourth.....Michael back in seventh.....

New qualifying format certainly keeping things interesting....

In my opinion it is useless, worthless, and tells us absolutely nothing as to how outright fast everyone is. I could live with the 1-lap qualifying, but not with the stupid no refuelling and no work on the car rule.

But good job for Rubens. Though his pole would have been worth more in my eyes, worth more respect, if I knew for sure that all drivers behind him were on the same fuel load and giving their 100%. Rant over. Yawn.

Originally posted by ales
In my opinion it is useless, worthless, and tells us absolutely nothing as to how outright fast everyone is. I could live with the 1-lap qualifying, but not with the stupid no refuelling and no work on the car rule.

But good job for Rubens. Though his pole would have been worth more in my eyes, worth more respect, if I knew for sure that all drivers behind him were on the same fuel load and giving their 100%. Rant over. Yawn.

I agree, the parc ferme thing is a frigging joke, especially since the weather, meaning track conditions, changed so much over night....how the hell were they supposed to get a race set-up in the few laps allowed today?
I also agree about the fuel load, I find myself wondering what load Webber is on compared to the rest of the front guys......
Even David commented about the lottery the new qualifying format is.....

I think there will be some reconsiderations of many of these new rules taking place in the course of the season, if anyone has any sense?

Originally posted by freakray


I agree, the parc ferme thing is a frigging joke, especially since the weather, meaning track conditions, changed so much over night....how the hell were they supposed to get a race set-up in the few laps allowed today?
I also agree about the fuel load, I find myself wondering what load Webber is on compared to the rest of the front guys......
Even David commented about the lottery the new qualifying format is.....

I think there will be some reconsiderations of many of these new rules taking place in the course of the season, if anyone has any sense?

I agree with you guys, you set there and watch it but at the end, what does it all mean? You don't know anymore at the end than you did from the beginning.:rolleyes:

You couldn't blame Trulli for being a bit worried about the first corner, Schumacher is right behind him again :p

Originally posted by RallyRaider
You couldn't blame Trulli for being a bit worried about the first corner, Schumacher is right behind him again :p

:devil: Bring it on! :D

I can see two Williams cars colliding at the first combination of corners :):o

Ok well i know the jags arn't winning material at the moment but you cant rite webber off! he has to have a look in at the poduim.
I'll refer to the post about "some guy"! Webber in no some guy!
to be fastest in the first two sectors shows something! sure he might be lighter than some but i doubt jaguar would run him lite to make sure he qualified at the top of the grid!

Originally posted by cruisey
Ok well i know the jags arn't winning material at the moment but you cant rite webber off! he has to have a look in at the poduim.
I'll refer to the post about "some guy"! Webber in no some guy!
to be fastest in the first two sectors shows something! sure he might be lighter than some but i doubt jaguar would run him lite to make sure he qualified at the top of the grid!

Nobody has written Webber off, I was joking about it because he is in the Jaguar.
As has been said a dozen times, and I will repeat for you, the new qualifying doesn't tell you too much about who is actually performing best.
If you watched yesterday's qualifying sessions, and have been listening to the drivers, even they are saying this new qualifying format is a bit of a joke.
I appreciate your comments, but I think it can be more realistically discussed at the end of the race.

On the subject of the race, seems like it is a HUGE problem, there are no true wet weather tyres available, and it is pouring down with rain.....talk is starting behind the safety car, but the race is still going to be a mess I think.
Michael will obviously be the best off driver in the rain, but he has to get to the front first......

Well, Phil, we were both wrong :p Both Schumi and Monty found their way into the wall nicely by themselves :silly: Too bad, really. We could have been in for a great race. Now I just hope that Rubens keeps it on track and takes the fight to McLarens.

And this is the worst beginning of the season for MS. Ever :mad:

And I really wouldn't want to be a track worker at the outside exit of the first chicane!!! :eek:

And yet another Safety Car after Button's accident. This track is just not suited for racing in the rain with just intermediates. Hope I get to see some racing too, not just procession after the safety car. 11 car remaining. Great! :mad:

Edit: Ralf, MS, Monty, Webber, Pizzonia, Verstappen, Button - the driver so far to spin at the exit of the first chicane.

Ferrari - go and die :mad::devil:

I'm kidding, and I know it's bad luck, but I feel soooo sorry for Rubens. He drove a superb race, adnI hate it when this happens :mad:

Hope Fisico doesn't let Mclaren take a 1-2... though I have a feeling he and DC will have to pit again, and Kimi *might* make it without.

I want to cry for Rubens, as much as I dislike Ferrari, I think he deserved this win more than anything.
Personally, I blame the mechanics, he deserves the same amount of attention as MS, you employ 2 drivers, treat them as equals!!

Originally posted by freakray
I want to cry for Rubens, as much as I dislike Ferrari, I think he deserved this win more than anything.
Personally, I blame the mechanics, he deserves the same amount of attention as MS, you employ 2 drivers, treat them as equals!!


Come on, Ray. I'm sure they both get equal attention from mechanics. :devil:

Originally posted by ales


Come on, Ray. I'm sure they both get equal attention from mechanics. :devil:

Hmmmm....is that sarcasm I sense?

What a wreck......that was horrific.....after all Webber did right too....

Race stopped lap 55.......

No sacrasm

BUT!!!!!!!

GIANCARLO FISICHELLA WINS THE BRAZILIAN GRAND PRIX (according to my calculations) Edit: YES HE DID!!!!!

And I hope Alonso is ok

Originally posted by ales
No sacrasm

BUT!!!!!!!

GIANCARLO FISICHELLA WINS THE BRAZILIAN GRAND PRIX (according to my calculations)

Yep, more than 2/3 distance......there is a good chance he did.

Apparently they may restart though, but what are the chances?

FIREWORKS FROM THE FORD!!!!!!

Alonso doesn't seem OK :( And isn't he 3rd in classification? We don't need another Kato-like situation :(

Eddie Jordan must be the happiest guy out there, as is GF.

thumbs up drom Alonso when stretchered away.

200th Grand Prix for Jordan - wow. And Irvine totally eats his words about not regretting not joining Jordan.

Yeah.....

But did you hear that if they are definitely stopping the race, they didn't follow the correct FIA procedure, and there is something about the winning pass in there too.....

Perhaps the race ain't over, but they have a mess to clean up if they are going to restart it......which is doubtful.

Either way, Fisichella ain't going anywhere in that car.....

Ray, race over

GF
KR
FA ( :( )
DC

don't remember the rest

Alex eats his words

Kimi is now the winner :huh:

Yeah, the race is officially stopped.

Check the regulations though, the winning pass has to take place at least 2 laps before the race is stopped, which it didn't,.

KIMI IS DECLARED THE WINNER!!!

Art 154.....in a red flag situation, the final position is taken at 2 laps prior to the race being stopped.

I feel bad for GF too...

Not in my eyes he isn't. GF deserved this win.

Originally posted by ales
Not in my eyes he isn't. GF deserved this win.

I didn't say I don't think GF deserved the win Alex.

Originally posted by freakray


I didn't say I don't think GF deserved the win Alex.

I was replying to my own post, Ray, yours just sneaked in between ;)

Appalling, appalling Grand Prix :mad:
This "racing series" / circus we've watched for the first 3 races this season doesnt deserve to be called F1. These stupid, stupid rules make me want to turn off the telly more than any one driver's domination.

We dont know whats happening in qualifying, and F1 is supposed to be an information-rich sport!

There were fears over safety following the tyre rule, and what goes and happens... these fears are ignored. Alonso's hurt, and no matter how bad it turns out to be, the guy's hurt cos a fool in a suit wanted to introduce as many new rules as possible to "spice things up"

and now the winner of the race gets given second prize

Bernie, if you're reading, youre a grade-a idiot

Originally posted by crayzayjay

There were fears over safety following the tyre rule, and what goes and happens... these fears are ignored. Alonso's hurt, and no matter how bad it turns out to be, the guy's hurt cos a fool in a suit wanted to introduce as many new rules as possible to "spice things up"



How true.....we all knew the tyre fears before the start of todays race.
The stupid tyre rules saw 7 cars parked on the same corner because there was too much water and not enough tyre to deal with it.

In the interest of safety, they need to realistically review the tyre rules, amongst other things.

I just watched a replay of MS's spin. Clearly, he hits the stream of water, the car aquaplanes and immediately swaps ends. He was a passenger. I'm sure the same happened to Montoya (I'm yet to see the actual accident), as well as the rest.

What is also sad to see is the FIA seem to assume the "you made the bed, you have to lay in it" position. Yes, it was the teams that voted on the 1 wet tyre compound, and a stupid decision in every way, and concernes were raised immediately after the announcement of this rule. But still this is no reason to refuse to change it. So much has been done to improve safety (the controversy with HANS, waiting tofind out how Alonso is doing and whether HANS had something to do with him being hurt/not being hurt more seriously), so this horn-locking attitude will lead F1 into crisis. I can definitely see drivers refusing to race in such conditions on inadequate tyres.

Originally posted by ales
I can definitely see drivers refusing to race in such conditions on inadequate tyres.
I couldnt agree more. When Webber was interviewed on the grid before the race started he was clearly edgy, and looked like he really didnt want to be there, which is extremely rare for a race driver... seeing drivers like that makes them seem more "mortal", if you know what i mean, and i was thinking that if i were in his shoes i would seriously be scared about the prospect of racing a 900bhp, half-ton car on the wrong tyres over a flooded circuit... Webber crashed at some 150mph or so... whats left to say :(

Originally posted by ales
I can definitely see drivers refusing to race in such conditions on inadequate tyres.

I don't blame them if they do, but I can also see the FIA(aka Max) slapping fines on those same drivers with fines for 'bringing the sport into disrepute'.

I think they should use the tyres off the pace car, it was doing great!:eek: And Jag could use the engine, it makes more power than the Ford!:eek: :eek:

Seriously, I can't really add anything to what you guys have said, it's a sad, pathetic stiuation.:rolleyes:

from f1-live

Renault driver Fernando Alonso escaped his horror crash at Interlagos on Sunday with just a sore ankle, the Spaniard managing to exit his shattered R23 unaided after the accident that cause the Brazilian GP to be red flagged.

Thankfully it appears as if Fernando won't be forced to sit out round four at Imola in two weeks time, a spokesperson for the team confirming that after numerous x-rays their driver is suffering bruising the leg and ankle.

“He's fine, absolutely fine,” the team confirmed.“But he's suffered some bruising to his leg, especially his ankle. He's had some X-rays at the hospital and they have come out fine."

After three races, Fernando has finished the last two in third place and is currently in third place in the drivers standings.

Well, the amazing start to the year continues. For the third race in sucession the wrong McLaren driver won and Schumacher broke his car.

Plenty of luck to be had.

Good luck to Raikkonen, receiving a free upgrade on third place to first :D; the Bridgestone runners who managed to keep it on the track and lived to reap the rewards when their tyres entered 'the zone' :sun:; Fisichella, Alonso and Webber for taking points with shunted and burning cars :shocked:; Fisichella again for narrowly avoiding an early exit courtesy of Firman's front end failure :eek:; Alonso for having his team fit the wrong tyres, a drive through penalty, destroyong his car, yet still collecting third place :toothless; and most of all Schumacher Snr who didn't have to watch his team mate move ahead of him in the championship (did Todt hit the panic button?) :angel:

Bad luck for Barrichello, who had done all the groundwork for a home win before his (long lifed component?) car let him down again :crying:; Coulthard, who was one again deprived of a win due to an unfortunately timed pit stop :(; Button, Alonso, Webber and the rest for their huge shunts :o; Panis, minding his own business only to be Liberachied by a ballistic Firman :bloated:; Fisichella for listening to his ill-informed team before having his hopes dashed :confused:; and the half dozen or so drivers who fell victim to the Interlogos planners who thought the track was a good a spot as any to exit a dranage pipe :huh:

The McLaren domination has been a plesant surprise to the start on the season. Unfortunately it probably has slightly less than two weeks to run - what are the odds on a Ferrari GA one two at Imola?

Watching them take on turn 3.

cringing as my favourites (Shumacher and Barichello) both go out...

watching my own national hero Webber crash.. and then watching in disbelief as Alonso smacks Trulli's (?) smash....

i havent been this excited since... since.. SEPANG..

I think they finally got some excitement back into F1

HOWEVER its stupid having a 1 choice wet tyre rule.

Truely fantastic race yet again. coincidence that new rules come along and first three races of season are very exciting?? dont think so, these rules are workin and the 3 races are evidence of that.

DC very unlucky, knew kimi would run well. but poor rubens, really felt for the guy when he pulled over. Schumacher snr?? well, can he handle the pressure? or can he face not winning?? Season is looking good and cant wait for next race.

Originally posted by nornicle


watching my own national hero Webber crash.. and then watching in disbelief as Alonso smacks Trulli's (?) smash....



Alonso hit debris from Webber's crash......

Originally posted by Raging Bull
Tr. Schumacher snr?? well, can he handle the pressure? or can he face not winning?? Season is looking good and cant wait for next race.
If youre implying Schumacher Sr couldnt handle the pressure in Brazil, your comment doesn’t really stand up. (If you werent, apologies in advance). Schumacher aquaplaned off on the shallow-grooved Bridgestones. It could have happened to anyone. In fact, it happened to him, Montoya, Pizzonia, Button (ouch*), and Webber. Im sure theres a couple more… Schumi was very quick before he went off, and we found out why he started the race as low down as 7th; its because he had a wet-weather setup on his car which didn’t remotely help his qualifying pace, and still only 3 tenths off Rubens, whose car was on rails. Michael’s strategy would have paid off if other drivers hadn’t been allowed to work on their cars before the race due to the extreme weather conditions. Not that it mattered, seeing as he was on the pace before skating off the track… shame.. it was looking good for him.

As for the excitement, the Brazilian GP did nothing for me. Sure there were heart stopping moments with crashes and what have you, even some nice overtaking manoeuvres (kudos to Kimi & Ralf with the outside overtaking), but what we were watching wasn’t F1. It was a mix of BTCC and Demolition Derby. F1 shouldnt have so many outside factors that determine who wins. The most deserving driver, i.e. the fastest guy over a weekend should win. That's what F1 is. Not this charade we've witnessed for the first three races. The new rules suck. All of 'em. And the one that didnt (no TC) has been put off for a season... quelle blague :rolleyes:

A couple of pages up you'll see my list of who spun (and either rejoined or not) at turn 3. I totally blame the track design for this.

And yes, forgot to mention. I'm quite puzzled by the obvious negligence of the rules (by the FIA) when they allowed to work on cars and even change the engine without applying the penalties. very weird. Not that it mattered much in the long run, but fair it was not.

It was because of the extreme circumstances that they let teams change their cars to wet-weather spec. It was for their safety but messed up people who had qualified with wet weather setups. You cant really argue with that happening, but you sure as hell can argue with the crappy rules existing in the first place.

Oh well, finally I'm on the net again. After much ADSL installation troubles, everything seems to be fine now.

Anyway, interesting reading on these pages. Strangely enough on this forum a lot of debating has been going on whereas on other places a more "acceptive mood" was visible. No matter how hard we all complain here, it's not going to change the rules or the outcome of a race. At the end of the day, it's the result that has been declared official that counts. And this race, Kimi was driving first 2 laps before they red-flagged it after more then 75% of the race was run. Period. So he was declared the winner. One could argue, Schumacher hit aquaplanning as so many others, or Barichello struck by mechanicla failure, or this or that. Races have been run in the same severe condition as this one (fe Australia, early nineties, forgive me I forgot the date) and will be held in the future in the same condition again. Drivers have lost a pocketed races in the final stages (or whatever stage) and most likely there will be more unfortunate ones in the future. So are these rules sucking? Was it a farce? Was it this? Or was it that? If - Then - Else should only be in the ICT-programmers wordbooks

Bottom line is, I was the first to say that the whole new set-up was crap, that I was not going to watch etc. etc. but now that we're underway, I watched every race and loved every minute of it.

I also read that team owners and manufacturers will meet again to discuss the new series from 2008 onwards. Interesting to see what that will bring.

Guido

oh yes, I forgot to tell - My favourite team is in the winning corner again, and that makes me even more happy :jump: