M3

M3--->
3.2 L, 320+ HP, 0-60 of 4.8s.

I personally think it is the best car, for the money hands down. No car can compete with it, price, performance, styling, handling, quality, so on...

Lexus is working on a 2-door high performance IS. That could definitely challenge the E46 M3, but this is the best M3 ever, so it'll take a lot from Lexus.

I disagree though. I think, for the money, the M5 is better. I like the Sedan look, and you have to respect the killer performance.

Also, many of AMG's creations, although they'll hurt your piggy bank a little more, are definitely superior.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

Actually the Corvette ZO6 has more bang for your buck. It is one of the most amazing cars ever build IMHO. And I think the new BMW M3's have 333bhp.

Yeah, the Z06 is incredible. The best performing 'Vette ever, and for relatively cheap. 385 hp in the lightened body equals speed. Expect future Z06 models to get over 400 hp! That's something Dodge is going to have to take seriously.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

The IS we'll have to see, the M5 great car but more of a sedan than a sports car kind of like the Audi S8. The vette, great car but 5.7L V8, come on you're comparing it to NA 3.2L V6. BMW got brand name, handling, styling and so much more than the Vette. The vette is good, but not great! Benz and AMG a lot of luxury and not enough performance, for the 100K they want. Screw AMG!!

Well, it's not a V6, but an inline 6. Also, comparing displacement is poor logic. That's like saying a Honda Civic is a better car than a Viper because it get's more horsepower per liter. As the old american saying goes...there's no replacement for displacement. You simply can't get as good torque numbers without size. That's why the E46 M3 has only 270 ft/lbs compared to the Z06's 385! Also, the new M3 has been criticized to have some understeer...that's right, understeer! That's not preferential for performance driving. I think the Z06 takes the cake here.

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"Ferrari isn't a car, it's a lifestyle"
-Enzo Ferrari.

That is true the M3 is an inline 6, and not a v6. The torque issue has some bases as well, but the car's weight is also important.
The liters of the engine are important because it shows the complexity and the engineering design. Plus the M has so much more that that.. But you didn't mention anything about M racing heritage, or M quality versus the chevette :D.
M over Z06, that's the bottom line.

Quote: nizmo@af ( 2:31 pm on Dec. 1, 2000 )...the car's weight is also important.
Good point. Weight:Horsepower rations can be compared. The Z06's is 8.09 lbs per horsepower. Very good. So, the E46 M3's is somewhere around 9.5 lbs per hp. There, we've compared them and the Z06 wins.

Quote: nizmo@af ( 2:31 pm on Dec. 1, 2000 )...The liters of the engine are important because it shows the complexity and the engineering design...
The liters are important, and as I said, there is no replacement for displacement. A honda Civic Si get's roughly 100hp/L of displacement...almost twice that of a Viper. I'll take the Viper:D If you want to talk about engineering prowess, give Chevy a call. The LS6 is a wonderfully refined engine, and expect it to get even better!Quote: nizmo@af ( 2:31 pm on Dec. 1, 2000 )... But you didn't mention anything about M racing heritage, or M quality versus the chevette :D...

I also didn't mention Corvette heritage. However, BMW does have better reliability.

I love the M3, and I think they're great cars. I prefer the E36 styling, but the E46 is a wonderful car. However, I think, for the money, the Z06 is simply better.

I think a Subaru WRX is a good car for the money. I mean, it has plenty of speed and I'm sure you could put a better turbo on it, right? And they don't cost much.

My votes for best car performance for the money:
Honda Civic Si
Chevrolet Corvette Z06
...and how about an old Miata for say $8,000 to $10,000, drop in a 220-horse Toyota Supra inline 6 at about $900, and run a $5,000 twin-turbo set-up, intercool it for another $1,000, plus a $1,000 limited slip differential to help keep the rear wheels gripping with that 350-horse monster cranking awy under the hood. Now that is one killer ride for just $17,900!! And you'll be taking down that $45,000 Vette Z06 or that $70,000 Viper any day.

Quote: JD ( 10:48 pm on Dec. 8, 2000 )

My votes for best car performance for the money:
Honda Civic Si
Chevrolet Corvette Z06
...and how about an old Miata for say $8,000 to $10,000, drop in a 220-horse Toyota Supra inline 6 at about $900, and run a $5,000 twin-turbo set-up, intercool it for another $1,000, plus a $1,000 limited slip differential to help keep the rear wheels gripping with that 350-horse monster cranking awy under the hood. Now that is one killer ride for just $17,900!! And you'll be taking down that $45,000 Vette Z06 or that $70,000 Viper any day.

Alright Psycho, take it easy :D. The honda Civic Si fuq that!! I'll take the Sentra SE over the SI anyday, or just wait for the Sentra SER (185 HP).

Really? You like the Sentra SE over the Honda Civic Si? I admit (as you will in time find out) that I am heavily biased towards Honda products, but the Si is a real gem. Coming in at around $17,000, it has a great power delivery curve, especially for the money, and can still squeeze out great fuel economy (better than the Sentra SE I believe). And besides that, the Si is SO tunable.

As for the SER, I haven't heard much about that. Is that 185-hp from a naturally-aspirated from a four cylinder engine? Do you know its displacement off-hand?

Don't worry one Day you'll see the light... Nissan is and always will be #1, but honda is ok too.
SE has DOHC, and SI has SOHC <-- Quality difference.
SE is just as tunable, i've seen SE' pull 9.0 1/4 miles
the SER will be 190HP and it'll be 2.2L but price will be 2K-3K more than the SE, it'll have 18' rims as options!! Watch out!!

hmmmm...
Since when is the Si SOHC? I thought it was Dual.

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1 Corinthians 7:14

The best car for the money is the McLaren F1 LM!!!! ...no. I would say it is the Honda S2000 or Acura Integra type-R. But the ZO6 still has the best price/proformance ratio.

the Honda Si's are DOHC, i think its a 1.7 or 1.8 litre VTEC

Quote: JD ( 10:48 pm on Dec. 8, 2000 )

My votes for best car performance for the money:
Honda Civic Si
Chevrolet Corvette Z06
...and how about an old Miata for say $8,000 to $10,000, drop in a 220-horse Toyota Supra inline 6 at about $900, and run a $5,000 twin-turbo set-up, intercool it for another $1,000, plus a $1,000 limited slip differential to help keep the rear wheels gripping with that 350-horse monster cranking awy under the hood. Now that is one killer ride for just $17,900!! And you'll be taking down that $45,000 Vette Z06 or that $70,000 Viper any day.

That car would get it's doors riped of by the ZO6. The ZO6 even, just barly, accelerates faster than a Ferrari 550 Maranello (.1 sec in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times- recored in Road and Track) !!! ;) A Viper would also smoke it. A better idea is getting a car like an old/used Supra, reduce the wieght, upgrade it's drive train, and add a cheater nitrous oxide or turbo kit in it. Maybe even racing slicks, a mod chip, and an upgraded muffler.

OR
get a used R32 GT-R, say '90 and take off the chip, it will have around 320-330hp. for about $5000 this car is yours! In japan, used cars are VERY cheap, especially if it has over 100,000 km, which is 60,000 miles. But the reliability of these cars are just great!

igor r u in Japan? for $5000 I don't mind getting a R32...

nope..... I lived there for some years [5 and a half], but then moved to US 2 and a half years ago, and that's where I am now.

In my opinion, the Z06 is a good car if you only want HP. It is still a chevrolet and I think they could do a better job on the interior styling. The corvette doesn't excite me that much overall except for the power aspect.

I think you could spend roughly the same ammount of money for a new M3 and have a nicer balance of power to styling. Granted, you won't have the same ammount of power as a Z06, I think it is a better overall ride.

When you look at the Z06, it has nearly 400 hp stock. That's pretty nice, but I don't see it as being very practical. Unless you live near a race track or are going to drive to one every weekend and go racing, I don't think that much power is a whole lot better than the M3's 333.

I would just rather have an M3 over a Z06. Street racing with that much power is crazy and is asking to get wrapped around a tree. Anyway, my .02.

O, and for the record. The Si engine in the US is DOHC 1.6 liter. The canadian version (which is the EX in the states) is SOHC and I'm not sure about displacement on the Canadian Si.

Most people see the Z06 as just powerful, even though it is so much more. It has extremely good handling (.99 G's), excellent styling IMO, and a great racing heritage. If you want a real car, try getting an older ('69-'73)vette, boring the 350 to a 406, add heads, headers, and new carb. That will give you close to 450hp and 425 ft./lbs torque in a 3000 lb car.

I like the Z06, but i also like the M cars. They're all so classy, yet quick.

Hey hey... are we forgetting about reliability? I have been a Bimmer person for ages and I remember when you could work on them and not worry about this "new befangled electronic control gadget" turning your day into storming anger. I have to hand it to any modern day auto company that can shun the dreaded "throttle by wire" of which I found quite disturbing when driving an F355. Some one I spoke with was quite displeased with his Audi A6 because of this device and now B.M.W. wishes to offer its customers boosted steering for low speed parking and playing with the idea of 100% "computer controled steering". when does it end. Sorry, but the new M3 is nothing but an over powered cream puff wearing a badge that belongs to its older brother. The idea of B.M.W. Motorsports is to build a car with character and road feel, having the sheer passion to drive built into every seat, weld, spring, etc... not over weighted with computer controlled bits. Truth be told, i'll know more when I drive one. I have not been around the Vette Z06, but will find some time to do as such.

"Ferraris are ment to be what?........ DRIVEN"!!!

Originally posted by cossie
Hey hey... are we forgetting about reliability? I have been a Bimmer person for ages and I remember when you could work on them and not worry about this "new befangled electronic control gadget" turning your day into storming anger. I have to hand it to any modern day auto company that can shun the dreaded "throttle by wire" of which I found quite disturbing when driving an F355. Some one I spoke with was quite displeased with his Audi A6 because of this device and now B.M.W. wishes to offer its customers boosted steering for low speed parking and playing with the idea of 100% "computer controled steering". when does it end. Sorry, but the new M3 is nothing but an over powered cream puff wearing a badge that belongs to its older brother. The idea of B.M.W. Motorsports is to build a car with character and road feel, having the sheer passion to drive built into every seat, weld, spring, etc... not over weighted with computer controlled bits. Truth be told, i'll know more when I drive one. I have not been around the Vette Z06, but will find some time to do as such.

"Ferraris are ment to be what?........ DRIVEN"!!!

While this may be true, the fact of the matter is, you have to choose between power/drive vs. safety/comfort. Nowadays carmakers are trying to please both ends of this equation and it interferes with everything else. The United States as a whole has the strictest regulations governing safety and performance than any other country in the world. Now you have to take that into account when you purchase your car. It's unfortunate that some of the cars nowadays, in order for you to enjoy, you have to modify, change, substitute whatever it is you have to do, in order to get the exact feel. Now, the Z06, while cramped, small, maybe rough, is actually a race bred car with the performance to back it up. BMW M series, is the performance end of that series. However, I agree with you on the contraption end of it, there's too much crap in this car for you to do a simple mod. But such is the price you pay for technology. If you ask me, all the cars mentioned are good and as I like to say, "beefy". But you have to keep in mind that the country we live in, apparently, has forgotten about the good old, knuckles turning white, performance that we are so desperately trying to keep alive.

I suppose the "mobile office" has become main stream for the U.S. It's a shame though. The most intriguing look into this subject would be the new Nissan Skyline R34. Here's a car that weighs a bit more then a house (3560lbs) and manages to get around at monsterous speeds. The one saving grace for my gripe is that fast Sklyine has a very defined electronic limit. When "Joe Bob down the street" wants to feel like a road king, he gets into his R34 GT-R V-spec Nissan and lets the elecronics fix his mistakes. There is a limit though for these devices and when it is found all hell can break loose. Are we, as an auto industry, trying to encourage every Tom Dick and Harry to drive faster and faster? There are some people, ok lots of people, who should not even be driving let alone driving fast. The easy going person who would rather talk on his/her cell phone, eat a sandwich and drive fast in a comfy little squish bucket of a car does not need any more "easy speed". Ok, i'll leave it at that and close my opinion lips as I am just venting more then anything. Thank you for your time.



Ferraris are ment to be what?.......... DRIVEN!!!!

i LOVE the m3... it's great...

if i become a pilot like i hope, i should be able 2 afford 1:D


practical, yet powerful:D :D :D

ok look...r&t issue feb 2001. m3 v carrera v z06. the vette is fuckin gayyyyyyyyy...the m3 is an I6 and it was still rated a better car. you can beat german manufacturing

MrCorvetteZ06, your saying a 70's corvette with all those mods done to the engine would be better than the M3 or Z06? Im going to go ahead and disagree with you on that one. Technology today is so much better than back then, the handling of the M3 and Z06 just would rip that 70's corvette a new a-hole.
im going to go ahead and give my opinion that unfortunately is the Z06. As much as i love the M3, and all of the heritage behind it, ive seen a test in car and driver that showed to the corvette beat it in handling, and on the drag strip. I dont care how practical the corvette is really, because if you can spend 50,000 on a 2 seater than your obviously not too worried about practicallity.

Originally posted by n1m3
ok look...r&t issue feb 2001. m3 v carrera v z06. the vette is fuckin gayyyyyyyyy...the m3 is an I6 and it was still rated a better car. you can beat german manufacturing

correction: german "engineering" ;)