Question on new models

I was wondering if someone out there can tell me why we dont see that
many new car realeases from my favorite brand.Tamiya.
Is it because of all the license issues? Ive gotten back into the hobby
after a multidecade hiatus and have noticed that they come out with a bunch of new military models more often.
I know its expensive for new kits. But if revell can do a ferrari 09 version why cant tamiya. For example. Why is there a revell 70 camaro but not tamiya?
Basically Im not sure of how the process gets started.Like how come revell can do a mustang but not tamiya? Do these guys gotta get permission from everybody involved. And pay them huge fees just to do a kit? Is that why the fxx reatils for about $70. Because the italian company charged them huge fees to produce it?

Ive often wondered about this stuff. When I was a kid and started with the old monogram and mpc kits I never even knew tamiya existed.They werent on the shelves at my local K-mart. Now that Im grown and can appreciate tamiyas quality i want more(lol)

I'm pretty sure it's not a license issue.
The military model kits market is much larger than the automotive related one, and Tamiya concentrates on that one.
Also as far as the automotive market is concerned Tamiya prefers to produce RC models rather than static ones. :(

They produced the 1998 GT1 Porsche in 1/10th scale as a RC kit.
They did the Sauber Mercedes C11 too as RC kit.
The also have the BMW Z4 coupe and many others produced as RC kits but no static kits.

I'd buy any of the above in 1/24 or even 1/12 scale, but they will not bother to produce them.

Yeah thats the thing they know people would buy their kits.If they made one of the sauber merecedes it would fly off the shelves. Why not a Dodge Charger? Ive noticed that Tamiya doesnt make many muscle cars.Their specialty seems to be more into racing.

It is simply because they do not want to.

Or more accurately, because they do not believe that they can turn a viable profit doing so.

Why that might be is purely speculation. It is very realistic that licensing is a major factor and possibly the decisive factor, but we are not ever likely to know for sure. No company makes public its decision process on this sort of thing. It is not meant to be understood, even by an enthusiastic consumer base.

However you can be very sure that Tamiya believes that it does not make sound financial sense to put out new automotive kits. And until they believe otherwise, we simply will not see any more car kits from them. :dunno:

Besides, cars from 10 or more years ago are just much cooler than what's being made now. :sunglasse

hi guy's i will explain the philosophy of the japenese kit industry.

this is good for almost 99% of the japanese manufacturer ( tamiya, Aoshima, Fujimi ...)

when they market a kit they look theyre LOCAL market. usually it's asian market and they don't like a lot USA car. even old school or the newest one.

to enter in the japanese market GM bought Subaru otherwise they will never sell a car in this market.

so imagine trying selling a model kit of an american car... same thing.

the other thing the modelers ask me ( as a hobbyshop owner ) is why Fujimi, Aoshima and tamiya don't do more kit with engine.. WE love to detail engine... the answer is: like you said YOU love engine but the asian... NO ( i explain )

i go to an asain car show some years ago and i felt on my knees when i enter... figure what... no hood was open or just a few one. here in canada and usa 99.9% of hood are open. Everybody was inside the car or turning around... like they don't want to see the engine they want to see the look of the car.

this philosophy is also reflected in our hobby... why spending a lot of $$ into a engine tooling when our taget market doesn't want it.

compare the tamiya RX-7 you will see.

kit 24110 Rx-7 efni.. ( no detail engine ) retail 1500 Yen
kit 24116 RX-7 R1 same kit as 24110 but with ENGINE retail 2200 yen

it's 32% more than the otherone.. so they have to think about that before they put an engine.


Of course the american market is not the same thing. i can guess... Tamiya got the lead of the race for the american market. they offer a wider range of kit with engine but unfortunotly they stop producing new kit.

right now they are in the RE-issue process.

new kit involve new tooling, new investment and paying license to the real manufacture of the cars.. so with the econy we have at this moment i think it's not a good idea to put a lot of $$ in this.

but they don't have the license problem with the military market .. this is why they concentrate theyre effort in this branch.

hope this help someone

yours

tamiya did the mustang from the 90s...*shrugs* but really why fight revell its not like revell is fighting them, everyone comfortable in they're markets.

tamiya did the mustang from the 90s...*shrugs* but really why fight revell its not like revell is fighting them, everyone comfortable in they're markets.


exact.. that's why revell don't do a lot of japanese car. or if they do they are VERY SHORT RUN.. all tuners series except the subaru are discountinued for over a year already.

yours

It is simply because they do not want to.
Or more accurately, because they do not believe that they can turn a viable profit doing so [... ]However you can be very sure that Tamiya believes that it does not make sound financial sense to put out new automotive kits. And until they believe otherwise, we simply will not see any more car kits from them. :dunno:

I dont' really believe that their former rally releases didn't make money, even if the military market may be bigger than the automotive one...

But what is sure is that there are more competitors for plastic kit brand with diecast on the automotive market than there are in military, that may also be a reason why they concentrate on military.


That's really a pain because a lot of builders would appreciate a decent Xsara WRC, C4 WRC or Focus WRC under Tamiya standard, as some former cars like a Celica ST165 or ST205 (road car bases exists and they made the ST185)... etc

Forgot to say: fortunately (Hmm not that much for our money!) that gives a place to artisanal brands like Profil24, Renaissance... and Scuderia Italia Lab !! :)

hi guy's i will explain the philosophy of the japenese kit industry.

this is good for almost 99% of the japanese manufacturer ( tamiya, Aoshima, Fujimi ...)

when they market a kit they look theyre LOCAL market. usually it's asian market and they don't like a lot USA car. even old school or the newest one.

to enter in the japanese market GM bought Subaru otherwise they will never sell a car in this market.

so imagine trying selling a model kit of an american car... same thing.

the other thing the modelers ask me ( as a hobbyshop owner ) is why Fujimi, Aoshima and tamiya don't do more kit with engine.. WE love to detail engine... the answer is: like you said YOU love engine but the asian... NO ( i explain )

i go to an asain car show some years ago and i felt on my knees when i enter... figure what... no hood was open or just a few one. here in canada and usa 99.9% of hood are open. Everybody was inside the car or turning around... like they don't want to see the engine they want to see the look of the car.

this philosophy is also reflected in our hobby... why spending a lot of $$ into a engine tooling when our taget market doesn't want it.

compare the tamiya RX-7 you will see.

kit 24110 Rx-7 efni.. ( no detail engine ) retail 1500 Yen
kit 24116 RX-7 R1 same kit as 24110 but with ENGINE retail 2200 yen

it's 32% more than the otherone.. so they have to think about that before they put an engine.


Of course the american market is not the same thing. i can guess... Tamiya got the lead of the race for the american market. they offer a wider range of kit with engine but unfortunotly they stop producing new kit.

right now they are in the RE-issue process.

new kit involve new tooling, new investment and paying license to the real manufacture of the cars.. so with the econy we have at this moment i think it's not a good idea to put a lot of $$ in this.

but they don't have the license problem with the military market .. this is why they concentrate theyre effort in this branch.

hope this help someone

yours
So youre saying that the asian market is more profitable than the U.S. and the west combined. How about our european brothers dont they like engines too?When I look on the internet at model shows around the world the winners are usually the detailed ones with hood, doors,decklid,engine wired.etc. Look at all the tamiya con winners. Most with super detailed engines and not the scratch built ones either!!
I understand the market stuff but even so theyre coming out with one or two of the asian cars a year.
Another question for you guys? If they re-issue a kit do they have to pay the license fees again? In other words if they got a deal with porsche and all the sponsors,etc. to make the 956 back in lets say 1987...then re-issue it today are they paying them twice or is it a one-time few. Also if they can do a porsche then. Then cant they do one now?
Is it really just a question of dollars and cents?
Im with R.M. I would love to see a citroen wrc car!!:lol2:

I dont' really believe that their former rally releases didn't make money

They certainly did make money.

But they do not make money now. Things have changed, and Tamiya cannot make a profit selling kits of rally cars now. So they do not make more.

It's very simple. If Tamiya could make money by selling car kits, they definitely would. They know very well that there are many many people who are very enthusiastic about buying kits of model cars. But they know how much it costs for them to make a model kit now. They also know about how much they can make in sales. And they know that there is a big difference in these amounts, and they would loose money if they tried.

Yes, many of us would happily buy a (insert your favorite car here) kit for $28USD. Many of us would still buy it for $38, or even $43. But few of us will buy it for $108. And if they know that's what they would have to charge for a kit to make a profit on it, they know it will not work.

Just because Tamiya used to be able to sell fantastic kits at a reasonable price does not mean that they can today. The world has changed, and Tamiya has decided it is simply not possible. There is no money for them to be found in model car kits now- so they make no more model car kits.

They certainly did make money.

But they do not make money now. Things have changed, and Tamiya cannot make a profit selling kits of rally cars now. So they do not make more.

It's very simple. If Tamiya could make money by selling car kits, they definitely would. They know very well that there are many many people who are very enthusiastic about buying kits of model cars. But they know how much it costs for them to make a model kit now. They also know about how much they can make in sales. And they know that there is a big difference in these amounts, and they would loose money if they tried.

Yes, many of us would happily buy a (insert your favorite car here) kit for $28USD. Many of us would still buy it for $38, or even $43. But few of us will buy it for $108. And if they know that's what they would have to charge for a kit to make a profit on it, they know it will not work.

Just because Tamiya used to be able to sell fantastic kits at a reasonable price does not mean that they can today. The world has changed, and Tamiya has decided it is simply not possible. There is no money for them to be found in model car kits now- so they make no more model car kits.

Mmmm looks like Andy tried his new beer, self brewed, and looks like it's quite bitter this year :D

I have a vision: future's kits cost nothing in molds, and are done by corn, you lap insthead glue (my kids tried this http://www.bebeblog.it/galleria/ecologioco/ , phenomenal LOL), at last you wouldn't have cianoacrylate or isocyanate fumes in the shop, ok may be garlic smell sometimes after a great aubergine's parmigiana :D

So youre saying that the asian market is more rofitable than the U.S. and the west combined. How about our european brothers dont they like engines too?When I look on the internet at model shows around the world the winners are usually the detailed ones with hood, doors,decklid,engine wired.etc. Look at all the tamiya con winners. Most with super detailed engines and not the scratch built ones either!!
I understand the market stuff but even so theyre coming out with one or two of the asian cars a year.
Another question for you guys? If they re-issue a kit do they have to pay the license fees again? In other words if they got a deal with porsche and all the sponsors,etc. to make the 956 back in lets say 1987...then re-issue it today are they paying them twice or is it a one-time few. Also if they can do a porsche then. Then cant they do one now?
Is it really just a question of dollars and cents?
Im with R.M. I would love to see a citroen wrc car!!:lol2:

when they design a kit they look for the ocal market first ( like i do and like every manufacturer do ) it's your local market that will pay all expense you made... mold, design, advertise, and license. if you r local market can fill all these and you made a reasonable profit they will go for it. international sales will be just a plus in the bank account. but if they don't do theyre expected profit they will not do the kit.

yes ALL tamiya con are win by kit with superdetail engine... but this is good with tamiyacon... do you already go to a model car show in asia. not one from a local club... a major one... and not affiliated with a manufacturer...like tamiya to see what's is mostly built. more than 90% of car kit on table are curbside. because they fill what the local market want , GOOD looking car at cheap price. i don't know if they are the BIG BIG winner of the show. anyway the mather to go to a show is not WINNING is sharing our knowledge and see people. if you win.. it's a plus for you. ( this is my own philosophy of a show )

i know some people who are what i call trophy racer.. one of them reach the 500 last years.. yes his models a cool... but personnaly... i prefer mine. because my attempt is not to win.. is to get the more fun as possible when i built a model and i can guarnty you i have a lot of fun.

now back to the track..


yes they have to pay license every time... in fact usually when you license a kit it's for a batch...ex: i contact GM a couple years ago to make a full kit of one of they're car. they ask me how much i will produce. to this answer they told me how much it will cost me in license... ( i forgot the project A LOT TO MUCH $$)

so liense are given for an amount of piece produce. and trust me they know exactly how much you made...


hope this help

The yen's steady appreciation has taken its toll. A typical Y3,000 kit would be:

1971 $ 8.38
1979 $13.88
1989 $21.50
1999 $25.21
2009 $32.25

Keep in mind this is just exchange rate with the US. Relative inflation rates weren't even taken into account. That would make things worse.

Wow!! Thanks guys that really clears things up. But just raises other questions.
I.e. fujimi and revell dont have these problems also? They seem to make a lot more
of kits. I think fujimi is based in japan. revell in germany so whats their approach because they put out way more kits.

tamiya did the mustang from the 90s...*shrugs* but really why fight revell its not like revell is fighting them, everyone comfortable in they're markets.

I thought the idea of big business was to expand your markets:lol:
Look at the car manufacturers its what they do theyre constantly
trying to open new markets.

On second thought maybe the fact that they dont do that or have that
philosophy:sunglasse Little off topic..sorry

Wow!! Thanks guys that really clears things up. But just raises other questions.
I.e. fujimi and revell dont have these problems also? They seem to make a lot more
of kits. I think fujimi is based in japan. revell in germany so whats their approach because they put out way more kits.

fujimi don't do more kit.. check theire line..

skyline ( over 25 different boxing )
lancer .. etc...

if you took one of each kit by year and manufacturer. ex: skyline from 89-94 etc.. you will se fujimi doesn't produce a lot of kit.

because when they license for the qty... they split it in different boxing.

for revell... they release in average 2 kit per years ( including the miltary ) but a lot of RE-issuing or RE-poping kit. ex: the charger. they release it originally and a couple time after RE-release it with a different boxing and put DUB wheel in the box. if you took that for a new kit. fine... but not for me. instead of releasing a complete kit i will prefer they release un aftermarket part for the original kit. byt his way they will produce a highr volume of the original and the price will also be affect. less expensive.

but this is my philosophy..

yours

While you were on hiatus, Tamiya has transformed into an R/C company with a surviving/dying (depending on your perspective) plastic model division. In order to keep it open, they have to pick profitable items, and only a few automotive subjects have made to their to-do list, such as GT-R and 370Z.

Also, in case you didn't know, the self-proclaimed F1-fanatic Shunsaku Tamiya retired from the position of CEO in June 2008 (although remains as the chairman), and the company was succeeded by his son-in-law who was a banker, so expect the company to be more financially strict. In other words, it'd be hard for them to produce money-losing plastic kits just to advertise the company's heritage.

As for why Japanese companies don't make American subject, well...Japanese are Japanese! But seriously, it all come down to profitability. If the North American market had a high demand for a certain subject, even Japanese companies would jump on it. But with the value of US dollar falling like crazy, and even the American domestic manufacturers are struggling in their home market, it wouldn't make sense for non-US companies to release local subjects, like American muscle cars.

Same goes for EU. During the peak time, more than 70% of Tamiya F-1 kits were consumed in Europe, and the demand for WRC, touring and Le Mans cars were always higher in Europe than Japan (which I personally heard from a Tamiya sales person), so if there was a demand, an international company like Tamiya would try to fulfill it. But I've repeatedly read interviews to Mr. Tamiya saying that the demand fell so much that he could no longer give such subjects a go, even though he personally wanted to.

So, when any of the major companies don't release your favorite subjects, you know they are not kit-worthy.

fujimi and revell dont have these problems also?
I don't know about Revell Germany, but Fujimi is a comany of only 30+ people, and its core business is plastic kits, so they MUST to make money by selling plastic kits. Meanwile, Tamiya is an R/C company of 360 employees, so the two companies have different business models.

I thought the idea of big business was to expand your markets:lol:
Exactly. That's why the kit manufacturers are focusing "less" on shrinking market. The good news is that Asian plastic model market is expanding, and the export from Shizuoka city actually increased last year.

The good news is that Asian plastic model market is expanding, and the export from Shizuoka city actually increased last year.

Really? That is good news if true. I thought the only thing they were making more of were figures of すずみや　ハルヒ.

I just have to say that I'm glad Fujimi stepped up to the plate after Tamiya gave up.

I just have to say that I'm glad Fujimi stepped up to the plate after Tamiya gave up.
From everything Ive seen heard and read tamiya is tops. Then fujimi,revell(or hasagawa),then amt and everybody else.


So the multi-media guys are not making money also? Or at least a lot?
The model factory hiros..studio 27s,and renassisance? I sure see a lot of the f1 subjects and theyre $200 and up!! Is that why theyre so expensive ? To make up for development cost? I like those kits but theyre for the very advanced modeler and are priced so even I who have a decent job are hard-pressed to get one. Also I hear alot of people complain about fit issues and such. IMHO for that amount of money they
should go together like a tamiya. Or is that just me!!

While you were on hiatus, Tamiya has transformed into an R/C company with a surviving/dying (depending on your perspective) plastic model division. In order to keep it open, they have to pick profitable items, and only a few automotive subjects have made to their to-do list, such as GT-R and 370Z.

Also, in case you didn't know, the self-proclaimed F1-fanatic Shunsaku Tamiya retired from the position of CEO in June 2008 (although remains as the chairman), and the company was succeeded by his son-in-law who was a banker, so expect the company to be more financially strict. In other words, it'd be hard for them to produce money-losing plastic kits just to advertise the company's heritage.

As for why Japanese companies don't make American subject, well...Japanese are Japanese! But seriously, it all come down to profitability. If the North American market had a high demand for a certain subject, even Japanese companies would jump on it. But with the value of US dollar falling like crazy, and even the American domestic manufacturers are struggling in their home market, it wouldn't make sense for non-US companies to release local subjects, like American muscle cars.

Same goes for EU. During the peak time, more than 70% of Tamiya F-1 kits were consumed in Europe, and the demand for WRC, touring and Le Mans cars were always higher in Europe than Japan (which I personally heard from a Tamiya sales person), so if there was a demand, an international company like Tamiya would try to fulfill it. But I've repeatedly read interviews to Mr. Tamiya saying that the demand fell so much that he could no longer give such subjects a go, even though he personally wanted to.

So, when any of the major companies don't release your favorite subjects, you know they are not kit-worthy.


I don't know about Revell Germany, but Fujimi is a comany of only 30+ people, and its core business is plastic kits, so they MUST to make money by selling plastic kits. Meanwile, Tamiya is an R/C company of 360 employees, so the two companies have different business models.


Exactly. That's why the kit manufacturers are focusing "less" on shrinking market. The good news is that Asian plastic model market is expanding, and the export from Shizuoka city actually increased last year.

FUJIMI ONLY HAS 30 EMPLOYEES WOW! What do they do outsource the injection moldings or something. Same with tamiya..Ive seen pics of their headquarters looks like more than 360 people!!!!

...but Fujimi is a comany of only 30+ people, and its core business is plastic kits...

They must be working like crazy to come up with a couple new 1/24 kits + a couple 1/20 kits every year, not to mention a lot of military kits too.

On top of licensing, kit tooling is ridiculously expensive. Tamiya's lost a LOT of ground in their military kit sales to Trumpeter (who's been going like gangbusters releasing high demand big scale kits) and to Hasegawa (whose 1/72nd scale aircraft line has been the cream of the crop recently).

The automotive kit market has been soft for nearly ten years now. That's a long time to watch sales slide. There have been a few positive spikes here and there (Revell's found some stability, particularly after the Hobbico takeover, and Lindberg managed to reinvent themselves yet again) but for the most part it's the doldrums.

To invest the capital required for a new kit is a big BIG risk, and Tamiya isn't seeing it as a worthwhile risk. I don't particularly blame them, although I do wish they'd reconsider for the sake of their classic sports car line. A Tamiya Austin Healey 3000 MkIII, Aston Martin DB5, or Triumph TR6, I think, would be fairly successful.

I just want a new Aston Martin 1/24 kit!

I think some injection molded car kit manufacturers are still stuck in a '70s era development/production cycle. They figure out what the kiddys crave to own when they grow up and kit that (I mean this figuratively not in a literal sense). The shelf life on that stuff is pretty short. Tamiya has a warehouse somewhere with row after row of barely broken-in, hard steel tooling for '98 Toyota Supra's, Suzuki Samurai's, Cup-a-Noodles, HondaPons, Repsols, and on and on. That stuff likely won't ever be repopped and those beautiful tools were a waste of company resources in my opinion. The accountants see the losses and proclaim cars/bikes a loser segment to be avoided.

Armor/planes are a different market. They kit perennial classics from WW2 that seem to never lose appeal virtually guaranteeing a steady ROI on the permanent tooling they invested so heavily in. (I'm always amazed at all the olive drab speckled tables at model shows in the U.S.)

Fujimi seem to get it. The Enthusiast line and their new 917K, GTO, Testa Rossa are classics that people will continue to buy forever (or until another manufacturer leapfrogs over their tooling with a better kit). Hasegawa's "Historic Car" series has been successful too: Miura, Toyota 2000, Mazda Cosmo, VW van, etc. People will likely be buying all these subjects with every repop and the product planners can see when to reissue simply by watching online auction prices.

Trumpeter is enjoying the export-friendly benefits of an artificially low currency exchange rate right now. It's very similar to what Tamiya had in the early '70s with their 1/6 bikes and 1/12 F1. As the yuan is allowed to appreciate Trumpeters stuff will get smaller with fewer parts just as happened with Tamiya.

Same goes for EU. During the peak time, more than 70% of Tamiya F-1 kits were consumed in Europe, and the demand for WRC, touring and Le Mans cars were always higher in Europe than Japan (which I personally heard from a Tamiya sales person), so if there was a demand, an international company like Tamiya would try to fulfill it. But I've repeatedly read interviews to Mr. Tamiya saying that the demand fell so much that he could no longer give such subjects a go, even though he personally wanted to.

So, when any of the major companies don't release your favorite subjects, you know they are not kit-worthy.


I'm sure if Tamiya produced a Aston Martin DBR-9 kit back in 2006 they would have sold like no other kit had before. There are a lot of recasted MFH DBR9 bodies for 1/24 Slotcar racing. I guess not done with a Tamiya DBR-9. So they even would have made profit from that particular hobby direction.
I have 5 MFH, 2 Renaissance and 6 Spark (converted a few into other race versions with aftermarket decals (06 LMS Larbre, 06 FiaGT BMS for example)), making a total of 13 Kits/models of the 1/24 DBR-9 so far (and all being made into different versions) I would have bought dubble that amount and still will do so if Tamiya made it onto a nice kit. Still saving money for a few more MFH DBR9 kits...

Has there been some sort of official statement from Tamiya that they do not make kits anymore?

It seems like every time they do make a new kit, its always some sort of sedan that is totally unappealing. I mean seriously no one wants to build that kind of stuff. Why not make some Saleen S7's or McLaren f1's? I saw a Tamiya Enzo at a hobby store yesterday that's been sitting there for maybe 2 years. And its still 64.99, talk about bs.

And I would agree with MPWR, the better cars are from past times. I recently got a Revell Diablo VT kit, and there are some inaccuracies but its quite possible the most well engineered revell kit I've seen.

I would have bought dubble that amount and still will do so if Tamiya made it onto a nice kit.
Well, you would buy 20, I'd buy one, and many here, too, but I think we in the different modeling forums all over the world are simply not enough to make it profitable.
IMHO diecast cars are a big problem for us kit builders - if someone wants a model of a Spitfire, the Bismarck or a T34 tank, they usually have to buy a kit and build one, but for most cars people can simply buy a decent diecast model, without having to worry about building and painting. I'm in a forum for racing simulation enthusiasts, we also have a thread about car models there, and I'm the only one regulary building a kit, 2 or 3 have build maybe 1 kit in the last 2 years, or used to build and now sold their unused kits, everybody else buys diecasts...

Well, you would buy 20, I'd buy one, and many here, too, but I think we in the different modeling forums all over the world are simply not enough to make it profitable.
IMHO diecast cars are a big problem for us kit builders - if someone wants a model of a Spitfire, the Bismarck or a T34 tank, they usually have to buy a kit and build one, but for most cars people can simply buy a decent diecast model, without having to worry about building and painting. I'm in a forum for racing simulation enthusiasts, we also have a thread about car models there, and I'm the only one regulary building a kit, 2 or 3 have build maybe 1 kit in the last 2 years, or used to build and now sold their unused kits, everybody else buys diecasts...

I know, but I know a lot of modelers who would buy at least 10 tamiya versions if one existed. My guesses would be that if they released one back in 2006 it could have exeded the CLK-GTR amount of sales... But that is only speculations on my side...
The Spark ready made DBR9's I got where a lot more cheaper than the MFH kits. I got at least 2 Spark models for under $80,- on ebay :lol2:

The biggest threat to plastic kits is definitely die cast. Look at the availability of die cast vs plastic kit at any major retail outlet or hobby stores.

The major competitive edge of die cast is the appeal to both young and old. That's a real killer for Tamiya and co whose plastic kits generally appeal to an older demographic.

That's why it makes perfect sense for me as to why Tamiya focuses on their r/c division. I see R/C as having greater appeal to a wider age range and demographic.

R/C parts are like printing your own money. There are hundreds of replacement and improvement parts. Consumers don't notice the high margin when it's a bunch of little stuff. $3.00 for a couple of screws is pretty profitable.

I'm not ever convinced that die casts are a real threat to Tamiya's (or any other kit manufacturers') model kits.
Generally, speaking, people who build model cars do so because they like to build model kits.
Give anyone here a choice between a die-cast McLaren F1 and a kit McLaren F1 and there'd be no contest.
We as model builders only tend to buy a die cast when there is no other option.

Then there are car fans who buy a model of a car whether it be in kit or die cast form.

R/C is an altogether different market.
Yes there may be an overlap as ultimately they share a common theme (cars) but in my opinion, model kits =/= die-cast =/= r/c.

Hey heres an idea!!
Is there any kind of statistical document that list sales?
I mean isnt that sort of stuff public knowledge.
I mean if im a stock broker I want to know which modeling company sold the
most kits right? There has to be a way to look at the numbers.
Or is that sort of stuff "inside information"? Dont companies have to list some sort of sales document. I.E. tamiya sold 3 million units in U.S....2 million in Asia..etc...

The biggest threat to plastic kits is definitely die cast. Look at the availability of die cast vs plastic kit at any major retail outlet or hobby stores.

The major competitive edge of die cast is the appeal to both young and old. That's a real killer for Tamiya and co whose plastic kits generally appeal to an older demographic.

That's why it makes perfect sense for me as to why Tamiya focuses on their r/c division. I see R/C as having greater appeal to a wider age range and demographic.
I agree with that to a certain extent. Those die-cast are really sweet. I picked up a magazine as a reference for a coupla kits I used.
Only problem is they can be really expensive too. Much more than a kit
be it tamiya or otherwise. Yes I know they have some that are cheap..(they look it too). But I think that die-cast stuff isnt for kids.more an adult thing. Am I right?.. I know I for one would never display something I didnt build, Whats the point? My buddies would go "hey I can buy that too!!".(lololol) Yes they can buy my kits too but it wont look like mine!!!!

What are you trying to figure out?

Tamiya is a privately held company. They don't have to release any of that, and they choose not to.

What are you trying to figure out?

Tamiya is a privately held company. They don't have to release any of that, and they choose not to.

Ouch!!! Hey I meant know offense. It was just idle speculation.I didnt know they were a privately owned company. Forget it. I was just wondering which kit manufacturer sold the most units or whatever.
I thought that stuff was public knowledge didnt mean to ruffle anyones
feathers. Just idle speculation from a thinker:rolleyes:

...I think that die-cast stuff isnt for kids.more an adult thing. Am I right?.. I know I for one would never display something I didn't build, Whats the point?

A local friend that builds to a high level showed up one day with a bunch of CMC die-casts. They were impressive and I doubt I could build a kit for the price but...they were built by some slave girl in China, not by me. What is the point?

That same friend has resold most of his CMC's on Ebay. I guess he soon got bored looking at them and "flipped-em".

We as model builders only tend to buy a die cast when there is no other option.
Then there are car fans who buy a model of a car whether it be in kit or die cast form.
I agree absolutely, but I think, we as "kit-only" customers are unfortunately not the majority. Like I said, in the racesim forum, there is someone, who used to build Tamiya F1 kits, but because of time and ability sold his kits and now buys die casts (and satisfies his building need by improving them e.g. with etched belts etc...), and he's not the only one. And considering the time we spend on a kit, buying a die cast is not expensive, either - I think that's also a major point, with more options to spend your time, less people have the time to build. When I visited the big Leipzig hobby and model fair, you had hundreds of built ships and planes, only a handful built racing cars, but several dealers with thousands of die cast cars...
You can probably get every WW2 plane in several variations in plastic, but less than half of the cars that won the F1 world championship.
I don't like it, but I fear that's the way it is.

mpwr i really apperciate what you have written.,very helpful

Marco, you make a good point. My friend with the CMC's has a wife and two adolescent age kids, two dogs, a cat, an aging house and a two hour commute. At this stage in his life there's not much time left to sit down and lose himself in a model build-up. Those high-detail CMC's seemed the perfect solution. But he eventually came to realize that simply owning the model wasn't that important to him. It was really the experience and gratification of seeing the model come together that gave him pleasure.

We all know the motivational benefits of sharing our WIP's on the internet. But the photo documentation is capturing the build experience in a bottle so we can reminisce decades from now about a great build. Die-cast kinda robs us of that experience.

I build and fly R/C airplanes. While that hobby isn't a perfect comparison to static display, there are some similarities. That industry has gone from a box of balsa sticks to Almost Ready to Fly (ARF) models that you drop an engine and radio in over a weekend. It has grown the size of the hobby by making it more accessible because people that just want to fly don't have to learn to build. But many retired builders with lotsa time also buy ARF's. Flying puts the plane in peril and they often say they don't have the emotional attachment to an ARF that they do with a hand built airplane so they tend to fly more relaxed. But they also go through a lot of airplanes because they get bored with them quickly and many folks no longer have the patience or up to date skills to build their own anymore. They love to talk about that plane they built 30 years ago though...."It was the best damn plane I ever flew....etc."

Ouch!!! Hey I meant know offense. It was just idle speculation, didnt mean to ruffle anyones
feathers. Just idle speculation from a thinker:rolleyes:

No offense taken, and none implied.

But really, what is the point?

Tamiya doesn't make car kits anymore- so what? There have been lots of fantastic kits produced- more than you or I or any of us could ever build.

Meanwhile speculating about stuff that we have no way of knowing about isn't going to do much. No amount of lamenting or applying clever deductions on our part is going to compel Tamiya to do anything.

Sure we can try blaming licensing fees, or diecasts, or video games, or evil money grubbing execs who hate model cars and builders, or kids these days, or freemasons for taking away our new kits- if it really makes us feel better. But does really it matter at all?? It's idle and uninformed speculation, that cannot change in any way the situation we're going on about.

I suppose it may be human nature to go on about the good old days (when Tamiya made great new car kits every week and dinosaurs happily built them) and lament their passing. But because things used to be one way does not mean that they can still be that way today. And a lack of new issues in no way keeps us from being able to enjoy modeling now.

Sure we can try blaming .... freemasons for taking away our new kits- if it really makes us feel better.

I am compelled to say that catagorically that Freemasons have nothing to do with this.

Do you think you could get me in? I were a mason I'd just sit at the back and not get in anyone's way.

the official response is:

what masons?
there's nobody here 'cept us chickens.

Does anyone know a freemason? I have a retaining wall that needs wor..... Oh now I get it.

Heres a thought do most of you guys get your models and etc. from
your local hobby store? Or do you order from e-bay and online? Or
are you guys like me and try to do both.
I realize the hobbyshops are having a hard time in this economy and
all. But sheesh my lhs wants $70 for a ferrari fxx and the new 370z!!
Im sure I can find a cheaper price than that online!!! And that
includes shipping

Now Guiwee, don't make us warn you again. Do you think this is some kind of BS discussion forum? :lol:

I buy/sell most of my models on eBay because its usually out of production. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose. It evens out. I buy supplies local.

Okay Okay Okay I quit allready..nothing wrong with discussion though... if its about models!!
Ive been warned....as you say!!1(lololol)

Okay Okay Okay I quit allready..nothing wrong with discussion though... if its about models!!
Ive been warned....as you say!!1(lololol)

Guiwee, you might well be owed an apology. There is of course nothing wrong with a discussion about modeling, and that really is all you have been doing.

Unfortunately in any community, there is history that newer members will of course be unaware of. There often are topics that have come up regularly, and if you've been a member for long you might see them come up again and again and again. Some members who have endured many iterations of certain topics might be particularly unenthusiastic about revisiting them again. Some topics have been so played out again and again that few people who have been here more than a year or so will have any interest in seeing them come up.

Yet at least to new members, these can be new topics. And it is by no means your responsibility to be aware of these historical discussions (or even to avoid them). You really haven't done anything wrong- you've simply hit on a topic that has come up time and again, and has always resulted in a long and pointless thread of useless speculation and much expression of peoples disconnected paranoias and desires.

The most irksome topics tend to be the ones that simply go nowhere, because they cannot get anywhere (e.g.- we will never be able to complel a kit maker to make a kit, or understand why they don't). But of course until you've seen these topics, you may be yet unaware that they go nowhere.

Some other favorite topics here are:
-What kit does everyone want to see made? (everyone has their own different fetish)
-Which company makes the best models? (depends what you consider a good model)
-What color should I paint my...? (build for yourself, damnit!)

You have really only expressed interest in a discussion about modeling- some thing we all (at least in theory) should be interested in. Unfortunately there are a number of people here who have been there, done that, gone nowhere, and aren't interested in getting there again. If you feel like you've been treated with inappropriate harshness, I apologize.

Thats the problem with the written word. It cannot always express the tone
one wishes to convey!! Mp youve always been pleasant and cordial to me ..so by no means was I offended,affronted,or anything else you can think of.
I can see your point and its a very good one.I havent been a member of this
community long enough to know about such topics. But being a member for a short while ive seen stuff come up again and again. So I can understand where you are coming from MP.
The original question was why dont they make more kits?
It was explained very adequately in the preceding posts...then it kind if went from there. But see you guys around...ta....ta...

Heres a thought do most of you guys get your models and etc. from
your local hobby store? Or do you order from e-bay and online? Or
are you guys like me and try to do both.
I realize the hobbyshops are having a hard time in this economy and
all. But sheesh my lhs wants $70 for a ferrari fxx and the new 370z!!
Im sure I can find a cheaper price than that online!!! And that
includes shipping
I buy domestic kits from local stores, and imports on the Web. I did the same when I lived in Tokyo; I bought JP kits locally, and got Revell USA or Revell Germany kits online or from eBay.

As for the 370Z kit, I tried to get a quote from Hobby World (Aoshima's online store), and it turned out to be 3700 yen. (2720 for the kit + 980 for SAL air to USA). You might want to give it a try.

Sorry to revisit this old topic again..but i just had to say im sure we in the modeling world are pleased by tamiyas latest realeases...dbs...722...lotus 78....Im gonna get all 3 !!! Apparently tamiya has listened to us because they have finally stepped up
and produced.. To make them keep producing ill buy 2 of all 3 !!!! Cant say they didnt make money off of me!!! lol
Btw the 722 looks like the slr but maybe with a different part or two kinda looks identical to me.
So all you guys who posted must be feeling good right about now!!!

Thanks for bringing this one back Guiwee. It was a fun thread. Yes, the Japanese injection manufacturers have been releasing a lot of automotive plastic lately but frankly I'm at a loss as to why? Christmas came early for me with the spanking new Honda RC-166 racer. Wow. Anyone care to speculate why we're suddenly being showered with so much attention???

(..and my retaining wall is more wonky than ever so if anyone catches a free mason send them my way!:evillol:)

The biggest threat to plastic kits is definitely die cast. Look at the availability of die cast vs plastic kit at any major retail outlet or hobby stores.

True. And look at eBay. The market is swamped with old kits!

Tooling for new kits is expensive. Any new Tamiya and Fujimi kits would be competing with their own older kits, and good ones too, not to speak of inexpensive kits from Revell and other manufacturers.

The U.S. may be a big market overall, but most American modelers prefer military. And most American car modelers prefer American cars. At a typical SoCal show, you'll see over 90% American subjects from old Revell and MPC kits.

For Japanese manufacturers, there's nothing encouraging in that situation.
All they see is a shrinking market, and one which has been headed in another direction for quite some time. Most American modelers would not be interested in anything they would offer except Mustangs and 'Vettes. Most American modelers don't even care about Ferrari, or about ALMS cars.

The market for European subjects is almost entirely in Europe. Since I prefer Euro subjects, I wish that weren't true, but it's a reality the manufacturers have to face.

So who is going to invest in new products when the biggest potential market is shrinking and it's overwhelmed with cheap competing products?

Business is about return on investment - ROI. In other words, making money for their stockholders. They don't care which market they sell into; if they can get a decent ROI, they will invest the money and produce the goods. Tamiya can and will build any kind of kit they believe will bring a profit, and right now that's mainly military.

This thread should be closed and locked down. It is really full of misleading and total bull. There is probably one or two comments that are true, but used as proof for personal opinions. I've never read so much untrue utter opinion. If you believe this thread, I have some beachfront property for sale in Chernobyl.

This thread should be closed and locked down. It is really full of misleading and total bull. There is probably one or two comments that are true, but used as proof for personal opinions. I've never read so much untrue utter opinion. If you believe this thread, I have some beachfront property for sale in Chernobyl.

Uhh, where did that come from?

If we locked threads because they consisted mostly of unsubstantiated personal opinions, we wouldn't really have much to talk about....

i like turtles

This thread should be closed and locked down. It is really full of misleading and total bull. There is probably one or two comments that are true, but used as proof for personal opinions. I've never read so much untrue utter opinion. If you believe this thread, I have some beachfront property for sale in Chernobyl.

You always have CTRL+W or even ALT+F4...less keystrokes to show your indignation...