Anyone else sick and tired of hearing anti tobacco lobbyists?

I personally am furious at the amount of anti tobacco sentiment being spread by radicals. People have way too much time on their hands and way too many opinions. For example a group suggested a proposition to ban the use of tobacco products and sales for the militarty. Basically I can't buy/use tobacco period and definately not on base or in uniform. Communism much? :shakehead

Even the " messiah " preaches the evil of tobacco use while he is a " closet " smoker ! I totally agree with you " Z " man , if you're willing to risk your life to defend your country , you certainly should have the freedom to make your own decisions on this !

Not if I'm paying your health care bill when your dying of cancer.

Thanks for the support. Here I was thinking I was a crazy personal rights defending conservative...

Not if I'm paying your health care bill when your dying of cancer.

Feel free to tell the nearest soldier that his/her "cancer" isnt your problem and ask him/her when their next deployment is...

Also I pay taxes too... Go figure that one

http://www.theleafchronicle.com/article/20090711/NEWS01/907110334/1002
This is the full article which displaces and outrages everyone that I work with, including non-smokers. Everyone I've asked or had a conversation with has come to the same conclusion, another basic infringement of what little rights we have in the military. pretty much like saying," Hey, go die in Iraq/Afghanistan but don't drink/smoke/dip before, during or after or we'll take your money/time/and rank."

First of all thanks for your service. Our military folks do a great job, regardless of the policies and political idiots that send them out to do that job.

Several issues here IMO that go into the whole thing:

1) I'm tired of EVERY lobbyist and lobby groups in general. They basically bribe public officials to get what they want approved.


2) Personal choice/freedom. I'm in complete agreement, a person should be able to do what they want to do, as long as they're not hurting anyone else by doing it; but

3) In a direct way that is not apparent at first, ANYONE doing something harmful to their own person is creating a burden for others. The drug addict that gets [free] needles from the government is costing us all money. By the same token, engaging in a behavior (though it's legal and your choice) that is known to cause cancer creates a burden on everyone else - it's just that the burden is not immediately apparent.

4) I can see that a smoking ban makes sense, as I think you'll agree that forcing someone else to smoke when they choose not to (such as at work, when they do not have the option to leave) is wrong. Dipping snuff is different, some may find it offensive but it isn't harming them.

which brings me to...

5) Although you're rightly upset about this policy change, one thing stands out. You are a member of an organization and must abide by its rules. Professional athletes have rules about what they can participate in off season. Office workers have to abide by their office policies, no matter how stupid they are. We all choose a place to work with the understanding that we are subject to some higher authorities' whims.

But what's my opinion, you ask? Well, if people want to smoke in the military, they should be allowed to. But....if the military is trying to save money and has statistics to show that smoking members are costing money (not just in health care, but also in the special facilities to which they must go to smoke, cleanup and maintenance of these facilities, etc) then the military as an organization has the right to enter into a cost saving policy.

However, just arbitrarily making this or any policy is crap. If there's a valid reason, then sure. But if it's just because someone doesn't like it, then I call :bs:

Lastly from the article:

The study by the Institute of Medicine, requested by the VA and Pentagon, calls for a phased-in ban over a period of years, perhaps up to 20.

I'd think that a 20 year phased approach would make it pretty painless.

Going slightly off topic for a moment: Our county government, after a couple of tries, finally passed a new law last year called "Tobacco 19". This law bans the sale of tobacco products to people under the age of 19. It's intentions were to keep high schoolers from being able to buy tobacco (like that really's going to work :headshake: ) One stipulation of the bill is it exempts those under 19 ( basically those 18)from the law if they are in the Military and have a Military ID. Lawmakers felt if you could serve your country, then you could be able to buy tobacco.
Even the " messiah " preaches the evil of tobacco use while he is a " closet " smoker !
That is one of the reasons why he "preaches the evils of tobacco use. Because he is finding it hard, like many other Americans to try and kick the habit due to nicotine addiction. I have witnessed myself people around me, friends neighbors, and even family attempt to quit smoking but couldn't after many failed attempts and with the aid of prescriptions and other products meant to help. Limiting exposure to all the advertising and other means that tobacco companies try and get people to start and continue to smoke can help some to finally kick the habit.

All i'm saying is who the fuck would I be to say you cant smoke because I think its bad. That is a personal rights infringement, tobacco is not illegal.
I say go to your place of business and dont drink anything but water for a week. See how THAT feels.

If people in the military want to smoke or chew that is fine with me. I say we take just a smallest of portions that this fiscally-challenged president is spending on worthless programs and set it aside for this as I would see this as a much more worthy cause. I do mind paying for all the social parasites who feed off of our government funds while contributing nothing to society...which sadly I do. By all means, I would far rather hand part of my paycheck over to causes giving military men and women benefits/rights rather than give it to the formentioned.

What he said !

Honestly, I'm not against the tobacco legislation in my state (state-wide ban). According to the Illinois Department of Health in 2000, 22.3% of adults in the state of Illinois were smokers. That means that 77.7% of adults were non-smokers. I don't know about anyone else, but the minority party being asked to take their cigarettes outside isn't something that I view as a problem, but more as a common courtesy. Businesses in my area lost customers because of smoking sections. Family restaurants weren't seeing full potential because despite there being a smoking section, second-hand smoke could still be noticed.

Now, do I agree with propositions to ban smoking completely/restrict usage to those who are obviously of age? No. I don't feel it is my right to infringe upon someone else's. I hate when people smoke where I am eating or trying to enjoy myself, but if I enter a smoking area outside knowingly, I have no one to blame but myself. As long as the smokers are sticking to their areas outside and I can have a nice meal inside or enjoy the music inside, I've got no bone to pick.

And lobbyists are meant to be annoying, especially if you're standing on the opposite side they are. They're lobbyists. They lobby. That's what they do.

Not if I'm paying your health care bill when your dying of cancer.

I see you've bought the propaganda.

Smoking kills its fact, get over it. Your weak if you smoke. Fighting for your right to kill yourself slowly is smart, keep it up. :bigthumb:

....aaaand let's attack the message and not the messenger.

You could say that smokers are weak because they smoke. But in more than 90% of people I know that smoke, they started at a young age, and were either dared to do it or did it to fit into a certain group. When you're 12 or 14 you don't usually think or care about the addictive quality of something you are doing, only that you don't stand out like a sore thumb and/or get made fun of. So are smokers weak? Perhaps. But not having been a smoker I cannot begin to say what the addiction feels like; and it IS an addiction we are talking about. Sure, smoking is pleasurable for those who do it. But at the heart of the matter there is addiction. If you have smoked awhile, it's supposedly harder to quit than cocaine - and that's tough.

IMO it's a personal choice to smoke or not. If you decide that, although you enjoy it, it's bad for you and could end up killing you, then it is your daily decision to continue it....or not. And we all know that the easy decision isn't always the best one. So if you were a smoker for several years and then quit, say on against the weakness of smokers. But if you haven't, then how do you know?

....aaaand let's attack the message and not the messenger.



It's funny you should say that because there is a anti-smoking billboard in town here that says

"Don't secondhand smoke the messanger"

No, even if adults have a hard time quiting, mabye it will help our children not to start. After all, they are our future.

Smoking kills its fact, get over it. Your weak if you smoke. Fighting for your right to kill yourself slowly is smart, keep it up. :bigthumb:

Give me your address. I'm coming over to blow smoke in your face.


I can't speak for the rest of the world, but I know a packet of Cigarettes tax-free costs around NZ$3, yet if I was to buy one it'd be $11. So that's $8 in tax that I would pay per pack. 365 packs a year would see that add up nicely.

I think Smokers are doing a better job of paying for their health care than obese people who insist on filling up with KFC are.


Just for those nutting out the currency thing, $1 NZ = $0.69 US