GM L67 LIM Gasket (Faulty Design?)

Just some observations here guys...

I want your opinions, its sort of an open ended conversation thread. Maybe to vent more than anything.

Here is a picture of my GTP's LIM gaskets when they came out. I guess both banks gaskets were blown (big suprize there)

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7085/img1848copy.jpg

As you can see I have circuled where the gaskets have failed.

My question....

Why in the HECK would GM design little slits like this (pointed at with arrows) in the coolant passages of the gasket? It makes no sense to me at all.

It appears the gaskets always blow right where these slits are (same deal with the 3100's LIM problems, and I'm sure a lot more GM motors).

Only reason I can think of to have these slits is in fact so that the gasket does blow, and the owner possibly returns to the dealership for service.

Something interesting to note is that the intake runners do not have these slits. Why is that? (seems suspicious).

Also GM redesigned metal framed gaskets and Fel-Pro brand gaskets do not have such slits. Why would that be?......(Interesting):eek7:

Fel-Pro brand 3800 LIM Gaskets

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v647/44/39/500370123/n500370123_1737017_8618.jpg

GM Redesigned Metal Framed 3800 LIM Gaskets

http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs019.snc1/3023_84840105123_500370123_2224737_7790883_n.jpg


Your Thoughts?

:banghead:
That's an easy one. If car parts and cars in general were built with quality materials and were capable of outlasting my mothers microwave purchased in 1981 then think of how many industries would be sent under! I think GM is doing the right thing by making cars with similar or lesser quality than the toys that come out of cracker jack boxes. It may sound crazy, but the years of experience, years of business training, wisdom, and foresight that flow forth from the executive leadership of GM are the exact reason we can depend on them for being the economic strength they are today! How many jobs would be lost, how many millions of tax dollars would have to be spent to keep them alive if they made quality cars! That's just suicide! Tim, it's because of your gaskets that we live in the thriving machine of the US economy we have today. Bless GM for their endless successful endeavors to maintain job security here in the US.

f#&$ing @$$h0L3s

:swear:


Ah, that felt better. My grandpa was a mechanic his entire life and it was absolutely hysterical to hear him rant on about the infantile mentalities that went into vehicle design and engineering. He seemed more bitter about how poorly cars were designed that we was his own divorce! :lol: To top it off, the cars he worked on in his day would outlast anything we have today, three times over! :disappoin

Of course, I'm sure Bob will get on here and give us all some poetically perfect reason and justification for the LIM gasket design that's indisputable. :icesangel

Bob wouldn't defend GM's retarded gasket design. He and I get tired of deflecting all the blame people try to stick on Dex-cool to the actual issue, GM's junk OEM design gaskets.

Not to thread-jack (sry Tim), but now that you mention it- if I get gaskets from Autozone or Checker, are they going to be made of the same crap the GM gaskets are made of? Is there a specific material, brand, etc, I can be looking for that will afford me greater dependability in the gaskets?

Bob wouldn't defend GM's retarded gasket design. He and I get tired of deflecting all the blame people try to stick on Dex-cool to the actual issue, GM's junk OEM design gaskets.

Uh oh Rich! Even though I agree with you that dex-cool has nothing to do with GM's LIM gasket issues, you just opened this thread up to the dex-cool debate. :lol2:

BTW, I like your terminology for the "Retarded" GM gasket design :rolleyes:

Sort of how Ford tried to lay all the blame onto firestone for all them tire blow-outs. Funny how it only seemed to happen on Explorers (Exploders) and other small to mid sized SUV's and Trucks running the same brand and size of firestone tire had no issues.

I just love how every 3100 and 3800 that I have had apart has a split LIM gasket right where them damn little slits are in the coolant passages. :banghead:

Gm knew that the gaskets would fail, they were trying to make extra money.

I take issue with you guys who think GM knowingly made defective gaskets. I think they were a bad design and it took a while for that to show up. Not every car out of the millions of 3.8's have had the gaskets go bad. Mine didn't until 308,000 miles. Now tell me how back in the day cars even lasted that long. Go ahead and brag about how you had to change plugs every 25,000 to 50,000 miles and distributor woes and how they got 15 miles to the gallon. On the other hand, they did have class and style and good names like Bonneville, Star Chief, GTO, Lemans, Catalina and Grand Prix; not original names like G3, G5, G6, G8.
For longevity, I'll take a modern 3.8 anyday over anything before them. But for sound and power, I'll take the old 389s and 400s.
Most people don't keep a car until it gives up the ghost. They get the hots for a newer sleeker hotter looking model. Getting a bad reputation for making junk won't get you new sales. So I don't think they ever purposely made defective parts. I'm not sure they reacted quickly enough once they realized what happened with the gaskets.
All that said, I'm sure the engineers at GM are a lot smarter than me, but at least I haven't gone bankrupt yet. All that may change when I retire next month.

Bob wouldn't defend GM's retarded gasket design. He and I get tired of deflecting all the blame people try to stick on Dex-cool to the actual issue, GM's junk OEM design gaskets.

:lol: Add me to that list of those that get tired of constantly entering a debate in the forums and attempt to "educate" those who think all their woes are Dex cool related :shakehead: ( I think I'm going to get carpal tunnel with all the typing I've done in the past 5 years in defense of the coolant.)

. Go ahead and brag about how you had to change plugs every 25,000 to 50,000 miles
Actually... call me weird but I could brag how I used to change my plugs every 2 years or 25 to 30,000 miles. At least back then most times you could actually get to the plugs to change them without having to perform an Act of God to gain access.By changing them more often back then an owner who knew a little something about vehicles could spot a "problem in the making" or catch an issue in the early stages. Also many times it was much more easier removing those plugs as they didn't weld themselves to the head.I think the last 2 vehicles I currently own that I can say are fairly easy to change the plugs are my '90 Lesabre and my '94 C1500 pickup.

Just for the record so there is no confusion, I never stated GM knowingly designed bad gaskets. However, any engineer worth a turd should know that plastic is not going to hold up against the lateral shifting forces created when two different metals are bolted together with fluid flowing through the gap and temps ranging from -40 F to 240 f. Duh!!

What are you saying Rich? I should move to a warmer climate? Consider it done!

Your gaskets look good compared to mine tblake. junk junk junkity junk junk.............

yeah I didnt wait untill the leak got too bad. I didnt want to fill the crankcase with coolant. I had some coolant coming out near the injectors and pooling up next to the bypass elbow. Also had a little steam out the dipstick tube towards the end. Seems better now!

What I posted was just my humble opinion.

Uh oh Rich! Even though I agree with you that dex-cool has nothing to do with GM's LIM gasket issues, you just opened this thread up to the dex-cool debate. :lol2:

BTW, I like your terminology for the "Retarded" GM gasket design :rolleyes:




I just like to http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7985/shit2.gif



:lol:

What I posted was just my humble opinion.

No worries, I meant no offence, I hope you didnt take it that way.

I know there have been a lot of GM LIM gaskets that will be fine one day and fill the crankcase the next. No Good.

No Tim not at all. I can dish it out as well as take it. That is what happens when you hire engineers right out of college. I think they need to make them work on repairing cars, for a while to see how hard it is to repair them.

No, that's what happens when a car company gets too big for it britches and has the accountants standing over the engineers shoulder saying, "nope, make it cheaper".

A perfect example of this is the 3800 water pump. When GM went to the Vin-K series-II, they rerouted the serp belt to take much of the load off the water pump bearings (as this was one of the highest failure parts on the previous Vin-L 3800). Then the accountants, seeing the reduction in bearing load demanded a weaker (and cheaper) bearing for the Vin-K's water pump due to the reduction in load. Result, the water pump is still a high failure part on the Vin-K Series-II 3800. Here's the kicker, the cheaper bearing saved them less than 10 cents per engine.

No, that's what happens when a car company gets too big for it britches and has the accountants standing over the engineers shoulder saying, "nope, make it cheaper".

That's exactly what some people were saying in a news story I watched last night concerning the downfall of GM. One of the questions they asked people, some of them GM employees and some analysts I believe said that the downfall started when accountants started taking over the decision making and those like the designers and engineers had less of a say in the final decisions.

:werd:

I stand corrected.