General Fiero Questions
Panoz26
07-01-2009, 07:06 PM
My Friends and I are building a Fiero GT for the 12Hours Lemons Race and I wanted to check here to see what are the immediate concerns and problematic issues with these cars?
Im a member to the board and live religiously over in the Panoz section as this is my daily race car but we are getting the Fiero for a "fun-project" car to run in the Lemons Series.
Any help or input you owners can supply, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!! :smile:
Im a member to the board and live religiously over in the Panoz section as this is my daily race car but we are getting the Fiero for a "fun-project" car to run in the Lemons Series.
Any help or input you owners can supply, would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!! :smile:
MagicRat
07-01-2009, 07:21 PM
The '88 model has far-superior factory suspension than the 84-87 models. It is much better handling and more adjustable.
Unfortunately, this is common knowledge, so '88 prices seem to be somewhat higher.
If rules allow, consider using a 4 cylinder Fiero and swapping-in a GM marine block 3 liter engine. It is externally identical to the 2.5, but much stronger and more powerful.
I have a marine block 3 liter 4 cyl in my boat. (It's an OMC, not a Mercruiser)
It's rated at 140 hp (50 more than the 4 cyl Fiero) with just a 1bbl carb!
It can also run at WOT, 4500 rpm (hp peak) all day with no problems.
As I recall, there are numerous hop-up components available for the 3 liter marine block, too, to give you 200+ hp reliably.
I have built a 2.8 V6...... and I think it will be less reliable for 12 hours than the marine block 3 liter.
The 2.8 design is somewhat limited by short intake runners and bearing oiling problems at sustained high revs.
I modded mine (Edelbrock cam, 4bbl intake, shorty headers, .080 overbore, Fiero heads) and it has about 150-160 hp .... I burned up the #1 piston after some heavy towing. I fixed it, but have been more gentle since. It's been reliable, but I have not thumped it.
Personally, I think that GM did not make a marine variant of the 2.8 because it is not very durable for severe use.
Unfortunately, this is common knowledge, so '88 prices seem to be somewhat higher.
If rules allow, consider using a 4 cylinder Fiero and swapping-in a GM marine block 3 liter engine. It is externally identical to the 2.5, but much stronger and more powerful.
I have a marine block 3 liter 4 cyl in my boat. (It's an OMC, not a Mercruiser)
It's rated at 140 hp (50 more than the 4 cyl Fiero) with just a 1bbl carb!
It can also run at WOT, 4500 rpm (hp peak) all day with no problems.
As I recall, there are numerous hop-up components available for the 3 liter marine block, too, to give you 200+ hp reliably.
I have built a 2.8 V6...... and I think it will be less reliable for 12 hours than the marine block 3 liter.
The 2.8 design is somewhat limited by short intake runners and bearing oiling problems at sustained high revs.
I modded mine (Edelbrock cam, 4bbl intake, shorty headers, .080 overbore, Fiero heads) and it has about 150-160 hp .... I burned up the #1 piston after some heavy towing. I fixed it, but have been more gentle since. It's been reliable, but I have not thumped it.
Personally, I think that GM did not make a marine variant of the 2.8 because it is not very durable for severe use.
MrPbody
07-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Regarding the similarities between the 2.5 and 3.0. Very little. Nothing interchanges. 3.0 is "based" on the old 153 CID 4-cylinder used in early Chevy II and Nova. It will not "fit" in Fiero without serious modifications. Trans flange is different, as are all the mounting points. Great engine, though!
There is a plethora of high performance parts readily available for the "Iron Duke" 2.5 (metric, not based on 153). Pontiac campaigned Fieros in the late '80s with success, using their "Super Duty" engine program. All the "goodies" are in the GM Performance catelog. The head is a work of art!
We've built 2.5s for midgets that make over 325 HP, naturally aspirated. And they rev 8,000 all afternoon...(:- Callie's makes a crank (billet steel, rather expensive) that "strokes" it to 2.8 lr.
Concerning the V6, as with any other production design, there are inherent defficencies when it comes to high speed durability. The 3.1 block is much stronger than the 2.8, with ribs cast into it all around. A "FWD" block will bolt right into the Fiero. If you have a displacement "rule", not to worry, the 2.8 crank will also bolt right in. The pistons are the same bore size but have different pin placement. The later ('90-up) oil pump is far superior to the older design, too.
The biggest issue with Fiero under racing conditions is the oiling system. The stock pans are 1 qt. "smaller" than the other GM cars using the same engine. This is due to limited space under the engine. Making a "special" pan with a "floating" pickup is the hot lick. One can add space in various areas to increase capacity and control "slosh" in cornering.
As stated, the '88 is the "good" one. My '88 GT will STOMP my '86 in the corners ("dead heat" in a drag race). It (the '88) actually drives like a REAL sports car. A well-built 3.1 in this car will make it run on a par with the Nissan 300ZX (non-turbo, of course), Mitsi 3000GT (again, non-turbo), and Toyota Supra. I know this to be true, as I have actually DONE it, not just "saw one". My '86 SE went into the 15s and would top out well over 120. Made more than one Jap "sports car" angry...(:- I would imagine, putting a small turbo on the 3.1 would make it a BEAST!
One of our next projects is an '86 SE 4-peed car. We're "doing" a 3.4 twin-cam for it, for drag racing. Should be interesting... The numbers show 400 HP possible without a blower. HE HE HE...
Jim
There is a plethora of high performance parts readily available for the "Iron Duke" 2.5 (metric, not based on 153). Pontiac campaigned Fieros in the late '80s with success, using their "Super Duty" engine program. All the "goodies" are in the GM Performance catelog. The head is a work of art!
We've built 2.5s for midgets that make over 325 HP, naturally aspirated. And they rev 8,000 all afternoon...(:- Callie's makes a crank (billet steel, rather expensive) that "strokes" it to 2.8 lr.
Concerning the V6, as with any other production design, there are inherent defficencies when it comes to high speed durability. The 3.1 block is much stronger than the 2.8, with ribs cast into it all around. A "FWD" block will bolt right into the Fiero. If you have a displacement "rule", not to worry, the 2.8 crank will also bolt right in. The pistons are the same bore size but have different pin placement. The later ('90-up) oil pump is far superior to the older design, too.
The biggest issue with Fiero under racing conditions is the oiling system. The stock pans are 1 qt. "smaller" than the other GM cars using the same engine. This is due to limited space under the engine. Making a "special" pan with a "floating" pickup is the hot lick. One can add space in various areas to increase capacity and control "slosh" in cornering.
As stated, the '88 is the "good" one. My '88 GT will STOMP my '86 in the corners ("dead heat" in a drag race). It (the '88) actually drives like a REAL sports car. A well-built 3.1 in this car will make it run on a par with the Nissan 300ZX (non-turbo, of course), Mitsi 3000GT (again, non-turbo), and Toyota Supra. I know this to be true, as I have actually DONE it, not just "saw one". My '86 SE went into the 15s and would top out well over 120. Made more than one Jap "sports car" angry...(:- I would imagine, putting a small turbo on the 3.1 would make it a BEAST!
One of our next projects is an '86 SE 4-peed car. We're "doing" a 3.4 twin-cam for it, for drag racing. Should be interesting... The numbers show 400 HP possible without a blower. HE HE HE...
Jim
MagicRat
07-02-2009, 11:02 AM
^^ Good advice,... those options make me wish I kept my '84 SE. :(
imo any of those suggested mods would end up with a car that's way too nice to thrash in the Lemons race... :)..... which actually leads me to my next question.
I recall there is a strict spending limit in this race, which may rule out some of the mods.
What is the spending limit you can work with?
imo any of those suggested mods would end up with a car that's way too nice to thrash in the Lemons race... :)..... which actually leads me to my next question.
I recall there is a strict spending limit in this race, which may rule out some of the mods.
What is the spending limit you can work with?
Panoz26
07-02-2009, 10:16 PM
^^ Good advice,... those options make me wish I kept my '84 SE. :(
imo any of those suggested mods would end up with a car that's way too nice to thrash in the Lemons race... :)..... which actually leads me to my next question.
I recall there is a strict spending limit in this race, which may rule out some of the mods.
What is the spending limit you can work with?
well, the spending limit is 500.00 on the car - we just picked up 3 for 1400.00 - 1 parts car, 1 race car, the other fix up and sell car.... we really need to make this reliable enough to withstand the abuse and last the full 12hrs - what happens to the car after the Lemons race, will be decided, well, after the race - if it does well, we may actually look to make something real out of it.
imo any of those suggested mods would end up with a car that's way too nice to thrash in the Lemons race... :)..... which actually leads me to my next question.
I recall there is a strict spending limit in this race, which may rule out some of the mods.
What is the spending limit you can work with?
well, the spending limit is 500.00 on the car - we just picked up 3 for 1400.00 - 1 parts car, 1 race car, the other fix up and sell car.... we really need to make this reliable enough to withstand the abuse and last the full 12hrs - what happens to the car after the Lemons race, will be decided, well, after the race - if it does well, we may actually look to make something real out of it.
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