Decided to rebuild my engine
Jmrec100
06-27-2009, 06:10 PM
Great forum.
Here's what I have going. Past post "Sounds like a lawnmower".
I decided to rebuild the engines if I can.
I have been disassembling the second engine I have, using Haynes Guide for help. Its been about 30 years since I built up an engine. And back then I was the helper buddy but did alot of the work too. Old story, got married, kids, and the mrs didnt like a mess..... well, I have my garage back. :p
Now I am excited to do it again. I have the engine disassembled to a point where I have the valves exposed etc. Now the book tells me about removing the valve springs etc one by one. I was wondering can I remove the entire head valve assembly as one piece to look at the bottom end and pistons rings. I know its an ignorant question but I have to ask. If the valve assembly is in good shape then I would just mount it intact to my motor. I am trying to get to a point where I can decide which parts on each of the motors can be used to put in my daily driver. If I can get one working motor then in the next several weekends or couple of months, I can do the rebuild for a good motor a little bit of the paycheck each time.
So do this old guy a favor, be patient with my questions.
Here's what I have going. Past post "Sounds like a lawnmower".
I decided to rebuild the engines if I can.
I have been disassembling the second engine I have, using Haynes Guide for help. Its been about 30 years since I built up an engine. And back then I was the helper buddy but did alot of the work too. Old story, got married, kids, and the mrs didnt like a mess..... well, I have my garage back. :p
Now I am excited to do it again. I have the engine disassembled to a point where I have the valves exposed etc. Now the book tells me about removing the valve springs etc one by one. I was wondering can I remove the entire head valve assembly as one piece to look at the bottom end and pistons rings. I know its an ignorant question but I have to ask. If the valve assembly is in good shape then I would just mount it intact to my motor. I am trying to get to a point where I can decide which parts on each of the motors can be used to put in my daily driver. If I can get one working motor then in the next several weekends or couple of months, I can do the rebuild for a good motor a little bit of the paycheck each time.
So do this old guy a favor, be patient with my questions.
J-Ri
06-28-2009, 01:12 AM
You can just swap the head over. You'll want to remove the rocker arms first so that the force from the pushrods isn't interfering with the torque of the head bolts. I would personally remove the valves and inspect the seats to make sure they're OK (which would mean removing the springs), but you don't really need to. If they need to be machined, now is the time to have that done.
The first two images are linked to the path on your computer, not a URL.
I believe those bolts and the ones on the opposite side are all you need to remove to get the head off.
The first two images are linked to the path on your computer, not a URL.
I believe those bolts and the ones on the opposite side are all you need to remove to get the head off.
Jmrec100
06-28-2009, 01:43 AM
Thanks. After some thought, it seemed that I should so I am removing the springs etc and inspect everything as you suggest.
Jmrec100
07-01-2009, 11:13 PM
Im looking for a used engine while doing a rebuild so I have a spare engine.
Ok. Im going thru the teardown. But I need some help.
Forgive my crazy questions.
So far, for an engine rebuild.
Step 1 Remove all the exterior. Air Cleaner, electrical connections, Intake manifold, Exh manifold, Injector bank, etc to leave the Valve cover exposed.
Step 2 Remove Valve Cover. Remove rockers and push rods. Label and/or bag so they go back into same locations.
Step 3 Loosen the head bolts, a 1/8 turn at a time going around in a circular pattern. Each a little at a time so don't warp the head. Good suggestion here in this forum.
When loosened , remove bolts. Now pull head off. Use a piece of wood and gently knock it if it is stuck. Becareful !!!! CATCH the head (I did) if it breaks loose.
Step 4 Now have the pistons exposed. Remove all the other stuff like idler pulleys, water pumps, water outlet (Tstat) etc.
Now this is where I am at. see second picture below.
Now???
Step 5 Remove oil pan. then I will see where to pull the block apart? Honestly, this is where I fumble.
Like I said, did an engine years ago. Just don't remember anything. But learning again. Worked with a buddy on his old "Goat", 6 cylinder. It was a kick til he wrecked it.
Anyway.. Guidance from here. I have Haynes and am looking at the www.autozone.com (http://www.autozone.com/) website too. After I get the beast apart. And before I take it ALL apart, what should I be checking. I have the tools from calipers to mics to indicators etc. I will probably have to hone the bore because of low compression in #4 cylinder.
So will I have to strip the block completely? I am saying yes. And take it to a machine shop. Hopefully get away with light honing and oversized rings. Again, taking the block apart, pulling the pistons and rings, label, bag tag etc.
So any hints? Here’s a picture of one head from one motor. When I pull the head off the one in the car, I will be able to compare it. Now what should I be looking at, measure for the valve seats etc.
Basically, this guy(me) needs to know what to measure and check.
Thanks.
Im having fun again with motors. If only it wasn't such an emergency right now.
Ok. Im going thru the teardown. But I need some help.
Forgive my crazy questions.
So far, for an engine rebuild.
Step 1 Remove all the exterior. Air Cleaner, electrical connections, Intake manifold, Exh manifold, Injector bank, etc to leave the Valve cover exposed.
Step 2 Remove Valve Cover. Remove rockers and push rods. Label and/or bag so they go back into same locations.
Step 3 Loosen the head bolts, a 1/8 turn at a time going around in a circular pattern. Each a little at a time so don't warp the head. Good suggestion here in this forum.
When loosened , remove bolts. Now pull head off. Use a piece of wood and gently knock it if it is stuck. Becareful !!!! CATCH the head (I did) if it breaks loose.
Step 4 Now have the pistons exposed. Remove all the other stuff like idler pulleys, water pumps, water outlet (Tstat) etc.
Now this is where I am at. see second picture below.
Now???
Step 5 Remove oil pan. then I will see where to pull the block apart? Honestly, this is where I fumble.
Like I said, did an engine years ago. Just don't remember anything. But learning again. Worked with a buddy on his old "Goat", 6 cylinder. It was a kick til he wrecked it.
Anyway.. Guidance from here. I have Haynes and am looking at the www.autozone.com (http://www.autozone.com/) website too. After I get the beast apart. And before I take it ALL apart, what should I be checking. I have the tools from calipers to mics to indicators etc. I will probably have to hone the bore because of low compression in #4 cylinder.
So will I have to strip the block completely? I am saying yes. And take it to a machine shop. Hopefully get away with light honing and oversized rings. Again, taking the block apart, pulling the pistons and rings, label, bag tag etc.
So any hints? Here’s a picture of one head from one motor. When I pull the head off the one in the car, I will be able to compare it. Now what should I be looking at, measure for the valve seats etc.
Basically, this guy(me) needs to know what to measure and check.
Thanks.
Im having fun again with motors. If only it wasn't such an emergency right now.
J-Ri
07-02-2009, 07:08 PM
Step 5 Remove oil pan. then I will see where to pull the block apart? Honestly, this is where I fumble.
Anyway.. Guidance from here. I have Haynes and am looking at the www.autozone.com (http://www.autozone.com/) website too. After I get the beast apart. And before I take it ALL apart, what should I be checking. I have the tools from calipers to mics to indicators etc. I will probably have to hone the bore because of low compression in #4 cylinder.
So will I have to strip the block completely? I am saying yes. And take it to a machine shop. Hopefully get away with light honing and oversized rings. Again, taking the block apart, pulling the pistons and rings, label, bag tag etc.
So any hints?
The block doesn't pull apart, it's all one piece.
It's been years since I've rebuilt and engine (only did one and it was for school). I would just check everything on the list of specifications and see if anything's off. While assembling, use "plastigauge" (sp?) to check the clearance of the main and rod bearings. It's a very thin plastic string that gets crushed when you tighten the caps and you compare the width of the crushed part to a chart that comes with it to see what the clearance is. It takes longer but it's better to find out there's a problem before you put it together.
Whether you have to strip the block depends on if you take it to a machine shop or do it yourself. Definately strip it if you take it to a shop, you don't always get every part back... only send the part(s) you are having them work on. I would personally have it line-bored at the smallest oversize that will work and have the deck planed (given the low compression on #4, it could be worn in one or all directions, worn in one direction will cause problems, if the out-of-round is out of spec, it needs to be line-bored or the new rings won't seal). If you're planning on just honing the cylinders, you can do that yourself. Before you install oversized rings, mic the cylinders all the way up and down and all the way around and make sure they're worn enough to allow it. I think most of the time if you just hone the cylinders, there isn't enough room for oversized rings, at least not in the standard .010", .020", .030" oversizes.
Anyway.. Guidance from here. I have Haynes and am looking at the www.autozone.com (http://www.autozone.com/) website too. After I get the beast apart. And before I take it ALL apart, what should I be checking. I have the tools from calipers to mics to indicators etc. I will probably have to hone the bore because of low compression in #4 cylinder.
So will I have to strip the block completely? I am saying yes. And take it to a machine shop. Hopefully get away with light honing and oversized rings. Again, taking the block apart, pulling the pistons and rings, label, bag tag etc.
So any hints?
The block doesn't pull apart, it's all one piece.
It's been years since I've rebuilt and engine (only did one and it was for school). I would just check everything on the list of specifications and see if anything's off. While assembling, use "plastigauge" (sp?) to check the clearance of the main and rod bearings. It's a very thin plastic string that gets crushed when you tighten the caps and you compare the width of the crushed part to a chart that comes with it to see what the clearance is. It takes longer but it's better to find out there's a problem before you put it together.
Whether you have to strip the block depends on if you take it to a machine shop or do it yourself. Definately strip it if you take it to a shop, you don't always get every part back... only send the part(s) you are having them work on. I would personally have it line-bored at the smallest oversize that will work and have the deck planed (given the low compression on #4, it could be worn in one or all directions, worn in one direction will cause problems, if the out-of-round is out of spec, it needs to be line-bored or the new rings won't seal). If you're planning on just honing the cylinders, you can do that yourself. Before you install oversized rings, mic the cylinders all the way up and down and all the way around and make sure they're worn enough to allow it. I think most of the time if you just hone the cylinders, there isn't enough room for oversized rings, at least not in the standard .010", .020", .030" oversizes.
Jmrec100
07-03-2009, 07:57 PM
Thanks.
I didn't mean pull the block apart. Have to remove all the parts, oil pan etc. Old VW's did, not larger real cars. I like VW's too. Have my old Vanagon I am planning to tear down after this car is running again. I forgot, I did a VW Baja with a racing cam (wow) after the "Goat". Rebuilt it, frame, new floor, and then its engine; sold it to a buddy. He ran it, then sold it too.
What would I expect to pay for the line-boring? Just ballpark.
I would imagine if I tear it down this far (in process), worth new bearings for crankshaft, cam etc... Am I looking at new bore there and oversize bearing too? Asking because of costs? And then the crankshaft? I have a line on a motor maybe for $400 and shipping. Pursueing that and will rebuild this motor too. Hope to have the motor by next weekend for a swap. Then finish rebuilding this one for a spare. Having fun but still learning.
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UPDATE QUESTION:
As far as keeping the timing set when tear it down completely. How do I assure of that with all the parts stripped off the block? Do I mark pulleys to the shafts etc? Tearing it down tomorrow and need some advice. Spent the day looking for a used motor. Discussed with a few. May have it settled tomorrow,. Then can strip mine down. Both engines, one on the stand and the other still in the car.
Is it ok and a good idea to strip the motor in the car then when down to the block , pull it from the car? Thinking it is easier to lift it out, not necessarily easier to tear down.
I didn't mean pull the block apart. Have to remove all the parts, oil pan etc. Old VW's did, not larger real cars. I like VW's too. Have my old Vanagon I am planning to tear down after this car is running again. I forgot, I did a VW Baja with a racing cam (wow) after the "Goat". Rebuilt it, frame, new floor, and then its engine; sold it to a buddy. He ran it, then sold it too.
What would I expect to pay for the line-boring? Just ballpark.
I would imagine if I tear it down this far (in process), worth new bearings for crankshaft, cam etc... Am I looking at new bore there and oversize bearing too? Asking because of costs? And then the crankshaft? I have a line on a motor maybe for $400 and shipping. Pursueing that and will rebuild this motor too. Hope to have the motor by next weekend for a swap. Then finish rebuilding this one for a spare. Having fun but still learning.
+++++++++++++++
+++++++++++++++++
UPDATE QUESTION:
As far as keeping the timing set when tear it down completely. How do I assure of that with all the parts stripped off the block? Do I mark pulleys to the shafts etc? Tearing it down tomorrow and need some advice. Spent the day looking for a used motor. Discussed with a few. May have it settled tomorrow,. Then can strip mine down. Both engines, one on the stand and the other still in the car.
Is it ok and a good idea to strip the motor in the car then when down to the block , pull it from the car? Thinking it is easier to lift it out, not necessarily easier to tear down.
doberman_52
07-04-2009, 01:30 AM
You can strip the block in the car and just use 2 of the head bolts to hook the chain onto to loft it out. You will need to replace the head bolts anyways. I believe the timing sprockets have marks on them, not sure. my timing slipped so I have a few questions here too.
With the cylinders, how much of a lip is at the top and are there any grooves in the walls at all? if not, you would just need it bored .010 or so over and get the oversized rings for it. It would probably be worth it to put new bearings in too.
With the cylinders, how much of a lip is at the top and are there any grooves in the walls at all? if not, you would just need it bored .010 or so over and get the oversized rings for it. It would probably be worth it to put new bearings in too.
Jmrec100
07-04-2009, 02:13 AM
I don't see any grooves in the cylinders. I do see "stain" marks. I measured the bore with calipers, since I didn't have inside mics. They measured 3.500" to 3.502" between the 4 cylinders. Each cylinder measured within .001" at 2 locations across the diameter, 90 degrees apart.
doberman_52
07-04-2009, 11:37 AM
I would bore it .010 over get get those rings.
Jmrec100
07-05-2009, 03:15 PM
Looks like I may get an engine tomorrow. Need to verify its compatible. Now with this VIN number? I see this :
1 CAVALI 99-00 2.2L (VIN 4, 4-134)
2 SUNFIR 99-00 2.2L (VIN 4, 4-134)
Now my VIN number is: 1G1J....4 (8th digit)OX729...
Is this a fit?
1 CAVALI 99-00 2.2L (VIN 4, 4-134)
2 SUNFIR 99-00 2.2L (VIN 4, 4-134)
Now my VIN number is: 1G1J....4 (8th digit)OX729...
Is this a fit?
Jmrec100
07-19-2009, 12:14 AM
Taking a little longer to get the motor. Supposed to arrive this tuesday or wednesday.
Any last minute advice? I have plenty of masking tape to write the number matching to connections (With clear tape over it so it doesn't rub off. Then disassembling what makes sense before unbolting motor mounts and lifting.
I was told it may be a good idea to change out the transmission temp sensor? Is there such a beast? Of course flush out the oil in both trans and engine. Also coolant hoses check and replace. I was going to replace the smaller hoses that are hard to reach when installed. Anything else?
Any last minute advice? I have plenty of masking tape to write the number matching to connections (With clear tape over it so it doesn't rub off. Then disassembling what makes sense before unbolting motor mounts and lifting.
I was told it may be a good idea to change out the transmission temp sensor? Is there such a beast? Of course flush out the oil in both trans and engine. Also coolant hoses check and replace. I was going to replace the smaller hoses that are hard to reach when installed. Anything else?
J-Ri
07-23-2009, 06:35 PM
I'm sure there is a trans temp sensor, couldn't tell ya for sure, and other than "on the trans", I couldn't tell you where it is. It's not a common failure, so I'd leave it alone... unless you have to remove the transaxle to change it or something stupid like that. If it is much easier to do with the engine out, get an AC Delco sensor. You don't want to replace a good sensor with a cheap one that may be bad. It's rare, but sometimes you get a bad off-brand sensor right out of the box.
Jmrec100
07-30-2009, 12:57 AM
Thanks. I intend to look around and see what I should replace while its out of the car. I just got the motor/trans. Took longer than expected. The car I was going to pull the trailer to briing the engine-trans home, blew the Water pump. So I had to take care of that first. ALWAYS something. Never straightforward and simple.
So this weekend, I take my 'old' engine out. See if I should replace the motor mounts. Should I replace them? Car has 270,000 miles so its probably due? Since I now have another car I can use to drive to work, Im going in stages. This weekend, just remove my old engine. Check for what I should replace etc.... Next weekend, I install new motor. Should I install the trans separately from the engine? Put the trans in, install axles etc.. Then install and mate the motor? Or should I mate the engine to the trans out of the car.?
So this weekend, I take my 'old' engine out. See if I should replace the motor mounts. Should I replace them? Car has 270,000 miles so its probably due? Since I now have another car I can use to drive to work, Im going in stages. This weekend, just remove my old engine. Check for what I should replace etc.... Next weekend, I install new motor. Should I install the trans separately from the engine? Put the trans in, install axles etc.. Then install and mate the motor? Or should I mate the engine to the trans out of the car.?
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