Quite confusing 94 LeSabre

Hello everyone, I have a whole new problem now. First though, thank you everyone who helps. I'm just so ever thankful that there is a resource for help that I don't have spend tons of money on.

Okay on to the problem. So I have a 1994 LeSabre with the VIN L 3800. It has always started fine, ran great, never ever an issue. It has 191k miles. Anyways, recently it has had some issues. It started getting harder and harder to start in the morning. Then I noticed one morning as I was almost parked at Bryant & Stratton, that it had stalled. It also took a few tries to get it started again. Then I noticed one day while driving home from work, it stalled. I started it, then it died again, then tried to start it, it wouldn't start. So I coasted to the side of the road and finally got it started. Then one day I went to work. I turned it off and went to go start it again and it wouldn't start. It started real hard and ran super rough. I could hear it sucking air in through the air box. It soon died after that. Now it will run alright, after started cold. But once it's warm it will not start that easy. Sometimes it will start, others it will start hardly and run real rough then die.

I was thinking maybe EGR valve, but wouldn't it cause the car to run horrible when it becomes warm? And if it was a sensor wouldn't it trigger the check engine light?

I have replaced the fuel filter about a week ago, I did plugs and wires last November with BOSCH Platinum +2 plugs. I also cleaned the MAF sensor today with carb cleaner. I unplugged that while running rought and it didn't make a difference.

Could it be the fuel pump. I'm going to do a pressure test tomorrow. Or maybe I was thinking the fuel pressure regulator. I'm really stumped. Maybe CPS. Any and all help is appreciated.

Hi jaimysessana!

I think I went through what you experienced just this week. Check out this thread to see if it sounds familiar. I had to replace my crankshaft position sensor...

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=955144

Yes that sounds very familiar, but did your car work fine sometimes then just become a hunk of shit other times. It's annoying. And how much did the CKPS run you?

In the beginning, the car would start up just fine again as if nothing had happened. The worse it got, the less often the car would start up and I'd sometimes have to wait 10-15 minutes for it to start again. I guess the sensor had to cool down. When it did start up, there was a lot of backfiring, probably because of all the unburned fuel? In the end it would not start at all.

The sensor was $27.99 at Autozone. It is US-made. No Chinese import. If you prefer OEM parts, I have seen them from GM online parts dealer for$40-$50.

However, putting it is is quite a PITA, but it can be done. The tool rental (trust me, you don't want to do without) would have been just $30 if I had known what I got myself into.

Well today I went to AutoZone and bought a CKPS. It was $35 with taxes here in NYS. Put it in a it was a bit of a pain but I got it in thanks to a 3/4" impact gun. It definitely seems to run better and start better, but I'm still going to check the fuel pump's pressure. It doesn't seem like it's getting enough fuel when starting. I wonder if it's possible both of these could be headaches at the same time.

Also, I have a multimeter. Could someone explain to me how to check my coils to make sure they're good.

Also, I have a multimeter. Could someone explain to me how to check my coils to make sure they're good.

You could check the primary and secondary resistance of the windings, but even if they checked in specs, the coil(s) could still be bad. The best way without a scope, etc. is to put a spark tester on them. You can get one at any one of the auto chain stores.

If you have a second vehicle, couldn't you just take the coils out, to an auto parts store to have them tested? Some of them do it for free in the hopes of being able to sell you something...

I did plugs and wires last November with BOSCH Platinum +2 plugs.This could be your problem, Bosch Platinum plugs are not a welcomed addition to a DIS ignition system, they will fail, usually sooner than later! Click Here (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=499986&highlight=bosch+platinum) for one opinion (of many) on the use of Bosch plugs.

Well the CKPS wasn't the culprit, but I guess preventative maintanence isn't a bad thing. So spark plugs, eh? The one's I took out were Autolite XP's and they were in there since 120k and I changed them out at 180k. So I think I'm going to get some Autolite's.

Those okay?

maybe just ac delco's. I mean how can a gm reject it's own part

I have NGK's in mine without any issues...

Well I just took out the BOSCH +2 plugs and I put in ACDelco ones. Gapped them at .060. Still has issues starting when warmed up. Any ideas?

I heard something about gas being in a vacuum line or something about a fuel pressure regulator. Any clues anyone?

I heard something about gas being in a vacuum line or something about a fuel pressure regulator. Any clues anyone?

Something else to think about, in some Bonneville discussions the computer is found to be a problem in some problems that are difficult to track down. The 94s and 95s seem to have a higher problem rate than other years of our H-body cars.

I heard something about gas being in a vacuum line or something about a fuel pressure regulator. Any clues anyone?Well today I went to AutoZone and bought a CKPS. It was $35 with taxes here in NYS. Put it in a it was a bit of a pain but I got it in thanks to a 3/4" impact gun. It definitely seems to run better and start better, but I'm still going to check the fuel pump's pressure. It doesn't seem like it's getting enough fuel when starting. I wonder if it's possible both of these could be headaches at the same time.As mentioned above, you were going to check the fuel pressure, did you do that? If not, check the pressure @ prime, idle & with the vacuum line disconnected from the regulator & post the results.

Okay I will definitely do that.

BTW: I replaced all of the plugs with Delco's. Wow. I'm speechless. Even though it doesn't like to start when warm, the thing has power up the you-know-what. It's not a dog anymore, it's a f***ing Buick.

I'll get back with the results, thank you everyone for letting me annoy you all with my problems.:runaround:

So I check all of the pressures at the fuel pressure test port under the hood, correct? Prime and idle I know that's simple. But with the vacuum line disconnected from the regulator, do I have to start the car in advance. Or unhook it and then start it. Or prime it with it unhooked.

I know a bit but some of this stuff I don't know.

Yes, you check the fuel pressure at the schrader valve on the fuel rail. You can check prime with the Ignition ON-Engine OFF, then start the engine to monitor idle pressure and remove the vacuum line while the engine is idling. You can do one more test with the engine idling and vacuum line connected. With this test, you want to rap the throttle (quickly) to monitor pressure change (variation). BTW, you can leave the pressure gage connected during all test.

Okay I performed the tests. I will do them again later just to verify my results again.

Prime - 21-22 psi
Idle - 30 psi
Idle w/o Vacuum Line on FPR - 30-31

While I triggered the throttle, the pressure stayed around 30 psi. It went down a little bit when I would gas it. I didn't have it running long, but no gas was coming out of the vacuum line that I unhooked from the FPR. The vacuum line was connected at the top of the FPR.

I heard something about gas being in a vacuum line or something about a fuel pressure regulator. Any clues anyone?

Sometimes the diaphram in the Fuel pressure regulator will develope a hole. This causes fuel to be sucked into the vacuum line attached to the regulator. This will cause a rich condition while running and flood the engine while sitting possibly causing a hard start that you seem to be having. Remove the vacuum hose going to the regulator and look for any fuel or smell of fuel at the hose especially right after turning the engine off. Good luck!

Okay I performed the tests. I will do them again later just to verify my results again.

Prime - 21-22 psi
Idle - 30 psi
Idle w/o Vacuum Line on FPR - 30-31

While I triggered the throttle, the pressure stayed around 30 psi. It went down a little bit when I would gas it. I didn't have it running long, but no gas was coming out of the vacuum line that I unhooked from the FPR. The vacuum line was connected at the top of the FPR.Wow, if your gage is accurate, you have found the problem and you are lucky the engine will run at all!

Yeah, after I saw those numbers; I was surely surprised. I mean the Haynes manual for my car says that it should be 45-47 psi during the prime.

I was pricing fuel pumps. BOSCH ones are 110 ish and those are pretty good. Or I could go to GM and get one for around 260 ish. Opinions?

I think BOSCH makes a good fuel pump. I've had one in a 1996 K1500 for about five years now. I'm definitely going to make sure I don't run the tank very low on gas. I want to keep that fuel pump cool like so many on her recommend.

all I can say is that no matter what pump you go with it will more than likely be the last one ever bought for that car.

So doing more searching now, going to have to replace the fuel pump. Now there are two types of pumps. One with CAC or CRC on sender. I haven't dropped the tank yet. Is there any easier way to figure out which one it needs without dropping the fuel tank.

it is a pain to drop the tank s if your in a rust belt you better get a sending unit the line will be rusty to remove the lines take the rt rear tire of to get to the elec plug and lines drop the back two hangers off the muffler , get the car as high as posible use a floor jack to support the tank then pull the bolt out drop it slowly to the back of the car to clear the brake line good luck

Well just replaced the sending unit and fuel pump. Someone must have did this job before because the gas tank was plastic and the fuel pump was an Airtex one. I reconized it by the model number. Anyways though, replaced both pieces and it's running better than ever. Thanks everyone for all of your help. :)

Has the fuel pressure been checked?

I won't pretend to understand half the stuff said on here, and I have no idea if the 90 lesabre is anything like the 94 but a few months back my car died, going down the road just quit running. It wouldn't start for about 15 minutes and then when I finally got it started back it ran like hell. I was on the way to the dr with my son and had to drive it back home and was sure I'd killed it. It died again in town and I had to call my hubby for a ride, and it sounded like it was getting no gas, and if it did crank, it would spit and sputter, move a few feet and die...We put a new ignition coil on it and it ran fine and still does. Like I said I have no idea if this is relevent or not, but just thought I'd throw it out there. Good Luck :)

Original poster said:Well just replaced the sending unit and fuel pump. Someone must have did this job before because the gas tank was plastic and the fuel pump was an Airtex one. I reconized it by the model number. Anyways though, replaced both pieces and it's running better than ever. Thanks everyone for all of your help. :)

Completely missed the second page..

* Blushed in shame * lol

Glad the problem has been resolved... The older 3800's will run on 30 Psi, but not very well...