Brunei F1 update...
Peloton25
06-10-2009, 04:30 AM
From an older thread on wrecked F1, I commented:
...one of the cars that went to Brunei was reportedly crashed and written off, possibly being used for spare parts afterward, but the chassis number hasn't surfaced yet.
Well I don't have much time for Supercars.net lately, but happened to be over there tonight. Our friend basman007 has started an incredibly detailed thread over there spanning a couple of years now, where he has tried to piece together photos and details on the complete Brunei car collection. I think his work on that forum and others is what led to the original list from Garage #5 being released which finally told us with certainty what F1s actually went to Brunei.
Well, in that same thread on SC.net, there is a new user posting under the screenname gollum and some details in one of his posts from early in May really caught my attention. He seems to be a resident of Brunei with good present-day knowledge of the royal car collection.
theres no "RHD clk gtr" anymore at the garage, it mus be sold outside brunei.
dun see any ferrari F50 BOLIDE
there's 2 argento vivo left.
3 mythos-black, blue and red.
5 Ferrari FX-grey, yellow, 2 black, red
6 F90- pink (redish), black, 2 silver, blue & green
F1 Mclaren LM1,LM4,LM5,GT-BLACK, GTR-#09R & 2 standard models
The way I read it, he has basically accounted for all the special F1s that went to Brunei still being there. That means the car that was written off must have been an F1 road car - either #002, #005 or #008. Chassis #014, as most of us well know, has left the country for a better life in the USA. As the story of the crashed F1 was conveyed to me, it was a "significant" car that was destroyed, which always led me to believe it would have been one of the LMs or the GT. Now I am more inclined to believe that perhaps #002, the first production F1 completed in 1993, was the victim.
Another thing about all of these cars being accounted for except one road car is that it kind of blows a hole in my theory that Lawrence Stroll's road car might be one from Brunei. If these details above are indeed factual, the numbers wouldn't add up to allow his F1 to have come from there. Man that's a chassis number I would love to have...
Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone else is as excited to get this extra piece of the puzzle as I am, but I figured it was certainly worth sharing. :)
He also mentioned in another post:
info received :the cars are to be sold to keen international buyer.
That's also exciting as it could mean more of these F1s will finally surface and find homes in the hands of people who will care for them and have a deeeper appreciation than I suspect the BRF has.
>8^)
ER
...one of the cars that went to Brunei was reportedly crashed and written off, possibly being used for spare parts afterward, but the chassis number hasn't surfaced yet.
Well I don't have much time for Supercars.net lately, but happened to be over there tonight. Our friend basman007 has started an incredibly detailed thread over there spanning a couple of years now, where he has tried to piece together photos and details on the complete Brunei car collection. I think his work on that forum and others is what led to the original list from Garage #5 being released which finally told us with certainty what F1s actually went to Brunei.
Well, in that same thread on SC.net, there is a new user posting under the screenname gollum and some details in one of his posts from early in May really caught my attention. He seems to be a resident of Brunei with good present-day knowledge of the royal car collection.
theres no "RHD clk gtr" anymore at the garage, it mus be sold outside brunei.
dun see any ferrari F50 BOLIDE
there's 2 argento vivo left.
3 mythos-black, blue and red.
5 Ferrari FX-grey, yellow, 2 black, red
6 F90- pink (redish), black, 2 silver, blue & green
F1 Mclaren LM1,LM4,LM5,GT-BLACK, GTR-#09R & 2 standard models
The way I read it, he has basically accounted for all the special F1s that went to Brunei still being there. That means the car that was written off must have been an F1 road car - either #002, #005 or #008. Chassis #014, as most of us well know, has left the country for a better life in the USA. As the story of the crashed F1 was conveyed to me, it was a "significant" car that was destroyed, which always led me to believe it would have been one of the LMs or the GT. Now I am more inclined to believe that perhaps #002, the first production F1 completed in 1993, was the victim.
Another thing about all of these cars being accounted for except one road car is that it kind of blows a hole in my theory that Lawrence Stroll's road car might be one from Brunei. If these details above are indeed factual, the numbers wouldn't add up to allow his F1 to have come from there. Man that's a chassis number I would love to have...
Anyway, I'm not sure if anyone else is as excited to get this extra piece of the puzzle as I am, but I figured it was certainly worth sharing. :)
He also mentioned in another post:
info received :the cars are to be sold to keen international buyer.
That's also exciting as it could mean more of these F1s will finally surface and find homes in the hands of people who will care for them and have a deeeper appreciation than I suspect the BRF has.
>8^)
ER
dbsf1
06-10-2009, 04:56 AM
wow - wouldn't it be awesome to see the GT surface! or one of the black LMs...... :iceslolan wow. the day those get out will be sweeeeet....
hurstg01
06-10-2009, 06:38 AM
My bet is that it too was #002 that was crashed. Stroll buying Asprey from the BRF could still have meant hat he got one of their F1's, as isn't the list you quoted to from Gollum (:thumbsup: BTW) one of current F1's they have, not all the F1's they have had? I cant remember the Original BRF list, but was there more F1's on that ilst than on this one?
mini magic
06-10-2009, 09:25 AM
I know for a fact it was definately a road car that was destroyed. I don't know the chassis # though
Also, from fchat by the same poster in response to one of my questions:
theres only 2 road car left (didnt note the number), grey and dark blue
My guess is that it was 005 that was destroyed
Also, from fchat by the same poster in response to one of my questions:
theres only 2 road car left (didnt note the number), grey and dark blue
My guess is that it was 005 that was destroyed
Peloton25
06-10-2009, 09:47 AM
Ahh - had not seen his stuff at FChat. That does seem to settle it, however I'm not sure why my original source considered #005 to warrant the word "significant" in their description.
Greg - Brunei got a total of 9 F1s. You can go back to Chris' old thread titled "Brunei McLarens revealed" to see the full list. This list has seven on it, which would match up with what we know about one being crashed and one leaving for new ownership.
Some say they may have originally ordered 10, and if so perhaps that red F1 that is parked in Singapore was that car, and it just didn't make it onto the Garage #5 list as it wasn't kept there...? A red F1 was once spotted in Brunei. Sort of a mystery on that one still.
>8^)
ER
Greg - Brunei got a total of 9 F1s. You can go back to Chris' old thread titled "Brunei McLarens revealed" to see the full list. This list has seven on it, which would match up with what we know about one being crashed and one leaving for new ownership.
Some say they may have originally ordered 10, and if so perhaps that red F1 that is parked in Singapore was that car, and it just didn't make it onto the Garage #5 list as it wasn't kept there...? A red F1 was once spotted in Brunei. Sort of a mystery on that one still.
>8^)
ER
Peloton25
06-11-2009, 11:47 AM
I asked gollum about the current condition of the Brunei F1 collection, mentioning some of the issues that #014 had. His reply:
ALL RIDES are kept in aircon garages, away from sun.
BAD THING 4 f1 gtr(#9R): its tires are flat that the ride is sitting on the ground!! no damage though...
the rest f1, well kept and are still neat!! =)
believed that the yellow f1 sold, was due to it being park under sun as the owners drove it ard often and also having hard time parkin into the garage back in the 90s'
That's a bit of a relief to hear. So, does anyone have their checkbook handy? :cwm27:
>8^)
ER
ALL RIDES are kept in aircon garages, away from sun.
BAD THING 4 f1 gtr(#9R): its tires are flat that the ride is sitting on the ground!! no damage though...
the rest f1, well kept and are still neat!! =)
believed that the yellow f1 sold, was due to it being park under sun as the owners drove it ard often and also having hard time parkin into the garage back in the 90s'
That's a bit of a relief to hear. So, does anyone have their checkbook handy? :cwm27:
>8^)
ER
dbsf1
07-18-2009, 01:32 AM
Sorry to bump an old thread, but have you had any more word from this guy, or kept in contact with him? And is there much info on the black GT? what it's like? Or any information on what the black LMs are really like?
Peace
Peace
mini magic
07-18-2009, 09:33 AM
We have pics/illustrations of the black LM's....
dbsf1
07-18-2009, 04:18 PM
We have pics/illustrations of the black LM's....
I meant like, ... i don't really know what i meant! I think i meant more like in real life, and interiors and yea I don't actually know what I meant by that. I do know we have that illustration and 3 (?) pictures from the factory...
Peace
I meant like, ... i don't really know what i meant! I think i meant more like in real life, and interiors and yea I don't actually know what I meant by that. I do know we have that illustration and 3 (?) pictures from the factory...
Peace
Peloton25
07-18-2009, 05:39 PM
He hasn't had anything more to say so far.
>8^)
ER
>8^)
ER
rr_ww
07-19-2009, 01:52 PM
That's a bit of a relief to hear. So, does anyone have their checkbook handy? :cwm27:
>8^)
ER
Do you think the Sultan would sell one of his cars if someone asked him? And do you think he'd want strong money for it due to its Royal connection or would just accept market value. (or less :biggrin: )
Going OT slightly, we know that Mr B's car hasn't sold especially quickly and that's a car with real provenance. So maybe their aren't that many potential buyers in any case.
>8^)
ER
Do you think the Sultan would sell one of his cars if someone asked him? And do you think he'd want strong money for it due to its Royal connection or would just accept market value. (or less :biggrin: )
Going OT slightly, we know that Mr B's car hasn't sold especially quickly and that's a car with real provenance. So maybe their aren't that many potential buyers in any case.
mini magic
07-19-2009, 09:16 PM
I'd be really surprised if nobody had tried to buy at least one of the LM's. I'm sure there are private (and wealthy) collectors out there who would be willing to shell out some serious cash for an LM, whatever the condition
dbsf1
07-21-2009, 07:34 PM
wow! an sl amg from the sultan is on sale in new zealand. maybe one of his f1s might make it here? http://exoticsandprestige.co.nz/ItemDetail.aspx?N=0&item=252511
would be nice ;)
would be nice ;)
Peloton25
07-21-2009, 08:09 PM
A lot of the Brunei specials have limited market appeal because most were RHD - Japan, UK, AUS, NZ, etc. The F1s, if ever offered for sale, could go anywhere.
Several sources, however, have stated there is no intention to sell some of the most special cars from the collection like the F1s. In fact, with values seeming to increase exponentially on them in recent years, Brunei would be silly to let them go now. They might just be the best 'investments' that Prince Jefri ever made for them. :grinyes:
>8^)
ER
Several sources, however, have stated there is no intention to sell some of the most special cars from the collection like the F1s. In fact, with values seeming to increase exponentially on them in recent years, Brunei would be silly to let them go now. They might just be the best 'investments' that Prince Jefri ever made for them. :grinyes:
>8^)
ER
dbsf1
07-21-2009, 08:12 PM
A lot of the Brunei specials have limited market appeal because most were RHD - Japan, UK, AUS, NZ, etc. The F1s, if ever offered for sale, could go anywhere.
Several sources, however, have stated there is no intention to sell some of the most special cars from the collection like the F1s. In fact, with values seeming to increase exponentially on them in recent years, Brunei would be silly to let them go now. They might just be the best 'investments' that Prince Jefri ever made for them. :grinyes:
>8^)
ER
do you know of any other special's that might have made their way to NZ? (sorry, i know this is taking it off-topic from F1s!!!)
Several sources, however, have stated there is no intention to sell some of the most special cars from the collection like the F1s. In fact, with values seeming to increase exponentially on them in recent years, Brunei would be silly to let them go now. They might just be the best 'investments' that Prince Jefri ever made for them. :grinyes:
>8^)
ER
do you know of any other special's that might have made their way to NZ? (sorry, i know this is taking it off-topic from F1s!!!)
Peloton25
07-21-2009, 08:15 PM
I don't follow the Brunei collection that closely. You'll want to pose that question to basman007 when he gets back. I heard recently he was having computer issues, but he's the real Brunei Collection historian. :thumbsup:
>8^)
ER
>8^)
ER
basman007
07-24-2009, 04:57 AM
Yeah, so it cost me a new pc, but it's all running properly again :) Except for the organising part! everything is in alfabetical order now :( ugh...
So... Gullum. He seems like an interesting guy. He may have some new information. But he didn't reply to my email and pm... If I add up the posts he made with widely known facts and a few mistakes (not in the F1 posts) I'm not totally convinced yet. I'm not saying he's fake, just that we can;t confirm anything he said... It would be great if it was all genuine, I wish he'd contact me :)
specials in NZ... nope, don;'t recall any, but a bunch of the more normal cars ended up there. I've got over 20 recorded cars there. My update will feature a few cars from NZ iirc (will start after this weekend).]
cars for sale... don't think it's some kind of dump there with desperate people. the specials aren't actively offered for sale. a handfull of the normal cars are. quite alot of cars from this era are still being used. there have been negotations about an F1 btw, didn't work out though. everything in this world is for sale, but only for the right price and the right contacts.
So... Gullum. He seems like an interesting guy. He may have some new information. But he didn't reply to my email and pm... If I add up the posts he made with widely known facts and a few mistakes (not in the F1 posts) I'm not totally convinced yet. I'm not saying he's fake, just that we can;t confirm anything he said... It would be great if it was all genuine, I wish he'd contact me :)
specials in NZ... nope, don;'t recall any, but a bunch of the more normal cars ended up there. I've got over 20 recorded cars there. My update will feature a few cars from NZ iirc (will start after this weekend).]
cars for sale... don't think it's some kind of dump there with desperate people. the specials aren't actively offered for sale. a handfull of the normal cars are. quite alot of cars from this era are still being used. there have been negotations about an F1 btw, didn't work out though. everything in this world is for sale, but only for the right price and the right contacts.
hurstg01
07-24-2009, 06:25 AM
He's back!! :wave:
basman007
07-24-2009, 09:42 AM
He's back!! :wave:
:biggrin: :wave: Hope you guys are doing good!
:biggrin: :wave: Hope you guys are doing good!
Thorst13
07-25-2009, 04:12 PM
Please, let the GT find it's way to my garage......
tentacles1
09-24-2009, 05:15 AM
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/243522/
If these are falling out of the collection, can only hope an F1 or two might be next.
If these are falling out of the collection, can only hope an F1 or two might be next.
hurstg01
09-24-2009, 04:02 PM
Apparentky, they are being sold by the ex sponsors of the Aguri Suzuki F1 team who apparently never paid up
BRX880
09-25-2009, 02:35 AM
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/243522/
If these are falling out of the collection, can only hope an F1 or two might be next.
Both cars were on display at the "Automobilmanufactur" in Singapore for years now.
So they didn't just pop up!
Furthermore, I don't think that both cars had ever something to do with Brunei by looking at their vin's and production years.
They are both very late production cars, and just because they are both RHD and the Roadster has a fancy colour combo doesn't mean, that one can link them to Brunei automatically...
If these are falling out of the collection, can only hope an F1 or two might be next.
Both cars were on display at the "Automobilmanufactur" in Singapore for years now.
So they didn't just pop up!
Furthermore, I don't think that both cars had ever something to do with Brunei by looking at their vin's and production years.
They are both very late production cars, and just because they are both RHD and the Roadster has a fancy colour combo doesn't mean, that one can link them to Brunei automatically...
GTI WR6
09-28-2009, 05:23 AM
If you want to see the pics of the CLK GTR and the CLK GTR roadster, head over to:
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=2&fID=0&tID=104217&bottom=970
I've shared the pics I've taken of the cars during my Singapore visit with basman007. Saw F1 #18 and #65 (correct me if I am wrong) there as well when I was at the showroom.
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=2&fID=0&tID=104217&bottom=970
I've shared the pics I've taken of the cars during my Singapore visit with basman007. Saw F1 #18 and #65 (correct me if I am wrong) there as well when I was at the showroom.
basman007
09-30-2009, 04:06 AM
If you want to see the pics of the CLK GTR and the CLK GTR roadster, head over to:
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=2&fID=0&tID=104217&bottom=970
I've shared the pics I've taken of the cars during my Singapore visit with basman007. Saw F1 #18 and #65 (correct me if I am wrong) there as well when I was at the showroom.
Do you know if 18 was there in 2005?
http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=2&fID=0&tID=104217&bottom=970
I've shared the pics I've taken of the cars during my Singapore visit with basman007. Saw F1 #18 and #65 (correct me if I am wrong) there as well when I was at the showroom.
Do you know if 18 was there in 2005?
basman007
09-30-2009, 04:14 AM
Both cars were on display at the "Automobilmanufactur" in Singapore for years now.
So they didn't just pop up!
Furthermore, I don't think that both cars had ever something to do with Brunei by looking at their vin's and production years.
They are both very late production cars, and just because they are both RHD and the Roadster has a fancy colour combo doesn't mean, that one can link them to Brunei automatically...
I've been puzzling with these new records for a few hours. It's a rather strange timeline, but in theory it could be true. I've got a small GTR registry and it fits in there as well.
RM has made mistakes before, but even though the coupe specs appear to be incorrect, I think the years are correct. I can also back everything up with photo's.
That leaves us with the question who the prominent collector is. Could still be Brunei. Can't come up with anyone else at this moment...
So they didn't just pop up!
Furthermore, I don't think that both cars had ever something to do with Brunei by looking at their vin's and production years.
They are both very late production cars, and just because they are both RHD and the Roadster has a fancy colour combo doesn't mean, that one can link them to Brunei automatically...
I've been puzzling with these new records for a few hours. It's a rather strange timeline, but in theory it could be true. I've got a small GTR registry and it fits in there as well.
RM has made mistakes before, but even though the coupe specs appear to be incorrect, I think the years are correct. I can also back everything up with photo's.
That leaves us with the question who the prominent collector is. Could still be Brunei. Can't come up with anyone else at this moment...
GTI WR6
09-30-2009, 05:00 AM
I dont think 18 was there in 2005. The first time I saw it was in Sept/Oct 2006 in Singapore Automobil Manufactur.
Peloton25
01-07-2010, 11:36 PM
Was looking around on SC.net today, and wandered into our friend basman007's galleries where I stumbled across these four images that I certainly don't recall seeing before, or discussing here previously. Correct me if wrong, please?
These are in the 'Brunei' -> 'McLaren' section and he has these labeled "McLaren F1 GTR" which should imply they are GTR #09R. :yikes:
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650461small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650461.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650460small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650460.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650462small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650462.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650459small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650459.jpg)
Assuming that he's correct, then they now bring my total shots of this car up to only 5 (:() which is I am sure true for most of the rest of you as well (...unless you are holding out on us? :uhoh:).
For those who didn't know the story, Ron Dennis did not want to sell the actual car that won the 24Hr race, so McLaren instead built a replica of the LeMans winner to satisfy their best customers.
They are obviously screengrabs from a video shot inside the factory, but I am having difficulty in recalling which video they came from? Can anyone place it? I also don't recognize the presenter/possible McLaren insider in those two shots at all. I think Sebas is probably correct, but it could depend on the timing of when this footage was shot, if anyone knows that too?
Pre-Qualifying for LeMans was held April 30th, 1995, and then the race was held June 18th, 1995 - so during that window of time, chassis #01R might have also looked a lot like the car in these shots as it underwent its livery change. The one piece of evidence in the shots that I can see which sort of ruins any theory of it being #01R is how exceptionally clean that suspension arm and brake disc are. Also, didn't the 1995 GTRs use carbon discs for the longer races like LeMans? Pretty sure they did, and #01R was wearing a set when displayed at ASI 2007. If they were setting up #01R in those shots, I suspect it would have them on already instead of a clean set of steel ones.
Anyone have additional thoughts on these I didn't catch? Or better yet, would you want to smack me upside the head with a link to where we talked about them previously; please and thank you?
>8^)
ER
PS: Added a link to this thread to the "Best of the Best" thread sticky at the top of the forum underneath the link to the original Brunei thread so it will be easier to locate for newbies in the future. :cool:
These are in the 'Brunei' -> 'McLaren' section and he has these labeled "McLaren F1 GTR" which should imply they are GTR #09R. :yikes:
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650461small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650461.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650460small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650460.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650462small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650462.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650459small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650459.jpg)
Assuming that he's correct, then they now bring my total shots of this car up to only 5 (:() which is I am sure true for most of the rest of you as well (...unless you are holding out on us? :uhoh:).
For those who didn't know the story, Ron Dennis did not want to sell the actual car that won the 24Hr race, so McLaren instead built a replica of the LeMans winner to satisfy their best customers.
They are obviously screengrabs from a video shot inside the factory, but I am having difficulty in recalling which video they came from? Can anyone place it? I also don't recognize the presenter/possible McLaren insider in those two shots at all. I think Sebas is probably correct, but it could depend on the timing of when this footage was shot, if anyone knows that too?
Pre-Qualifying for LeMans was held April 30th, 1995, and then the race was held June 18th, 1995 - so during that window of time, chassis #01R might have also looked a lot like the car in these shots as it underwent its livery change. The one piece of evidence in the shots that I can see which sort of ruins any theory of it being #01R is how exceptionally clean that suspension arm and brake disc are. Also, didn't the 1995 GTRs use carbon discs for the longer races like LeMans? Pretty sure they did, and #01R was wearing a set when displayed at ASI 2007. If they were setting up #01R in those shots, I suspect it would have them on already instead of a clean set of steel ones.
Anyone have additional thoughts on these I didn't catch? Or better yet, would you want to smack me upside the head with a link to where we talked about them previously; please and thank you?
>8^)
ER
PS: Added a link to this thread to the "Best of the Best" thread sticky at the top of the forum underneath the link to the original Brunei thread so it will be easier to locate for newbies in the future. :cool:
Peloton25
01-08-2010, 12:44 AM
:uhoh: This just got embarassing...
Just went to put these images away in a folder I keep video screengrabs in, and I happened to skim the thumbnails and have all 4 of these shots already. :loser:
So, perhaps not new for anyone here, but maybe new in the sense that the #09R connection hadn't been made before? Or am I just forgetful.
Go easy on me now... :lol:
>8^)
ER
Just went to put these images away in a folder I keep video screengrabs in, and I happened to skim the thumbnails and have all 4 of these shots already. :loser:
So, perhaps not new for anyone here, but maybe new in the sense that the #09R connection hadn't been made before? Or am I just forgetful.
Go easy on me now... :lol:
>8^)
ER
Sami Aaltonen
01-08-2010, 01:51 AM
. :yikes:
For those who didn't know the story, Ron Dennis did not want to sell the actual car that won the 24Hr race, so McLaren instead built a replica of the LeMans winner to satisfy their best customers.
They are obviously screengrabs from a video shot inside the factory, but I am having difficulty in recalling which video they came from? Can anyone place it? I also don't recognize the presenter/possible McLaren insider in those two shots at all. I think Sebas is probably correct, but it could depend on the timing of when this footage was shot, if anyone knows that too?
Pre-Qualifying for LeMans was held April 30th, 1995, and then the race was held June 18th, 1995 - so during that window of time, chassis #01R might have also looked a lot like the car in these shots as it underwent its livery change. The one piece of evidence in the shots that I can see which sort of ruins any theory of it being #01R is how exceptionally clean that suspension arm and brake disc are. Also, didn't the 1995 GTRs use carbon discs for the longer races like LeMans? Pretty sure they did, and #01R was wearing a set when displayed at ASI 2007. If they were setting up #01R in those shots, I suspect it would have them on already instead of a clean set of steel ones.
Anyone have additional thoughts on these I didn't catch? Or better yet, would you want to smack me upside the head with a link to where we talked about them previously; please and thank you?
>8^)
ER
Now this superb detail news!
The case of #01R gets even more intresting!
Very, VERY VERY glad to hear Ron Dennis decision! It would had been horrible mistake to sell #01R! I have heard how much McLren rispects it's history on Motor sport and that's why atleast I would be very supriced if they had sell the real #01R.
Very glad that they did a look like version of it, the chassis #09R. Very glad indeed!
For those who didn't know the story, Ron Dennis did not want to sell the actual car that won the 24Hr race, so McLaren instead built a replica of the LeMans winner to satisfy their best customers.
They are obviously screengrabs from a video shot inside the factory, but I am having difficulty in recalling which video they came from? Can anyone place it? I also don't recognize the presenter/possible McLaren insider in those two shots at all. I think Sebas is probably correct, but it could depend on the timing of when this footage was shot, if anyone knows that too?
Pre-Qualifying for LeMans was held April 30th, 1995, and then the race was held June 18th, 1995 - so during that window of time, chassis #01R might have also looked a lot like the car in these shots as it underwent its livery change. The one piece of evidence in the shots that I can see which sort of ruins any theory of it being #01R is how exceptionally clean that suspension arm and brake disc are. Also, didn't the 1995 GTRs use carbon discs for the longer races like LeMans? Pretty sure they did, and #01R was wearing a set when displayed at ASI 2007. If they were setting up #01R in those shots, I suspect it would have them on already instead of a clean set of steel ones.
Anyone have additional thoughts on these I didn't catch? Or better yet, would you want to smack me upside the head with a link to where we talked about them previously; please and thank you?
>8^)
ER
Now this superb detail news!
The case of #01R gets even more intresting!
Very, VERY VERY glad to hear Ron Dennis decision! It would had been horrible mistake to sell #01R! I have heard how much McLren rispects it's history on Motor sport and that's why atleast I would be very supriced if they had sell the real #01R.
Very glad that they did a look like version of it, the chassis #09R. Very glad indeed!
cabrio92
01-08-2010, 05:19 AM
Hello,
I have question : it seems Brunei family love victorious cars and nearly nobody did approach #09R, so do you think it is possible that Dennis could do believe to them it's #01R ?
I would like to see interior shots of #09R where it could be displayed a specific plate linking to Le Mans ..?
Phil
I have question : it seems Brunei family love victorious cars and nearly nobody did approach #09R, so do you think it is possible that Dennis could do believe to them it's #01R ?
I would like to see interior shots of #09R where it could be displayed a specific plate linking to Le Mans ..?
Phil
Le Man
01-08-2010, 11:25 AM
Was looking around on SC.net today, and wandered into our friend basman007's galleries where I stumbled across these four images that I certainly don't recall seeing before, or discussing here previously. Correct me if wrong, please?
These are in the 'Brunei' -> 'McLaren' section and he has these labeled "McLaren F1 GTR" which should imply they are GTR #09R. :yikes:
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650461small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650461.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650460small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650460.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650462small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650462.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650459small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650459.jpg)
Assuming that he's correct, then they now bring my total shots of this car up to only 5 (:() which is I am sure true for most of the rest of you as well (...unless you are holding out on us? :uhoh:).
For those who didn't know the story, Ron Dennis did not want to sell the actual car that won the 24Hr race, so McLaren instead built a replica of the LeMans winner to satisfy their best customers.
They are obviously screengrabs from a video shot inside the factory, but I am having difficulty in recalling which video they came from? Can anyone place it? I also don't recognize the presenter/possible McLaren insider in those two shots at all. I think Sebas is probably correct, but it could depend on the timing of when this footage was shot, if anyone knows that too?
Pre-Qualifying for LeMans was held April 30th, 1995, and then the race was held June 18th, 1995 - so during that window of time, chassis #01R might have also looked a lot like the car in these shots as it underwent its livery change. The one piece of evidence in the shots that I can see which sort of ruins any theory of it being #01R is how exceptionally clean that suspension arm and brake disc are. Also, didn't the 1995 GTRs use carbon discs for the longer races like LeMans? Pretty sure they did, and #01R was wearing a set when displayed at ASI 2007. If they were setting up #01R in those shots, I suspect it would have them on already instead of a clean set of steel ones.
Anyone have additional thoughts on these I didn't catch? Or better yet, would you want to smack me upside the head with a link to where we talked about them previously; please and thank you?
>8^)
ER
PS: Added a link to this thread to the "Best of the Best" thread sticky at the top of the forum underneath the link to the original Brunei thread so it will be easier to locate for newbies in the future. :cool:
:shakehead How much egg nog did you have?
I,ll go easy on you my friend, screengrabs are from "Pursuit of Perfection" part 1 about 4 mins in. We went through this in a thread a while back (not sure which one) Thats James Robinson from MCL going through the LeMans brake set up. The GTR is 036 build no, I concluded at the time that this is possibly 09R, due to spec and timing. I will check again and confirm.
These are in the 'Brunei' -> 'McLaren' section and he has these labeled "McLaren F1 GTR" which should imply they are GTR #09R. :yikes:
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650461small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650461.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650460small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650460.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650462small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650462.jpg) http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650459small.jpg (http://www.supercars.net/gallery/129612/976/650459.jpg)
Assuming that he's correct, then they now bring my total shots of this car up to only 5 (:() which is I am sure true for most of the rest of you as well (...unless you are holding out on us? :uhoh:).
For those who didn't know the story, Ron Dennis did not want to sell the actual car that won the 24Hr race, so McLaren instead built a replica of the LeMans winner to satisfy their best customers.
They are obviously screengrabs from a video shot inside the factory, but I am having difficulty in recalling which video they came from? Can anyone place it? I also don't recognize the presenter/possible McLaren insider in those two shots at all. I think Sebas is probably correct, but it could depend on the timing of when this footage was shot, if anyone knows that too?
Pre-Qualifying for LeMans was held April 30th, 1995, and then the race was held June 18th, 1995 - so during that window of time, chassis #01R might have also looked a lot like the car in these shots as it underwent its livery change. The one piece of evidence in the shots that I can see which sort of ruins any theory of it being #01R is how exceptionally clean that suspension arm and brake disc are. Also, didn't the 1995 GTRs use carbon discs for the longer races like LeMans? Pretty sure they did, and #01R was wearing a set when displayed at ASI 2007. If they were setting up #01R in those shots, I suspect it would have them on already instead of a clean set of steel ones.
Anyone have additional thoughts on these I didn't catch? Or better yet, would you want to smack me upside the head with a link to where we talked about them previously; please and thank you?
>8^)
ER
PS: Added a link to this thread to the "Best of the Best" thread sticky at the top of the forum underneath the link to the original Brunei thread so it will be easier to locate for newbies in the future. :cool:
:shakehead How much egg nog did you have?
I,ll go easy on you my friend, screengrabs are from "Pursuit of Perfection" part 1 about 4 mins in. We went through this in a thread a while back (not sure which one) Thats James Robinson from MCL going through the LeMans brake set up. The GTR is 036 build no, I concluded at the time that this is possibly 09R, due to spec and timing. I will check again and confirm.
Peloton25
01-08-2010, 11:48 AM
I haven't had a lick of egg nog this year (trying to keep my 'figure' :rolleyes:), but may have been drinking quite a bit of it back whenever these screenshots were discussed, as I clearly missed the boat on them being #09R. :disappoin
Thanks for the answers - I knew you'd be the one with the details. Cheers! :D
>8^)
ER
Thanks for the answers - I knew you'd be the one with the details. Cheers! :D
>8^)
ER
basman007
01-25-2010, 03:41 AM
:slap: lol
Wish I could share anything new on the F1 front... I've finally seen where 014 resided, but sadly it's not in the pics I've got...
Wish I could share anything new on the F1 front... I've finally seen where 014 resided, but sadly it's not in the pics I've got...
Le Man
05-22-2010, 06:10 AM
So the Sultan has a one off special 2+2 featuring the F1,s V12 called the PGTB made back in 96.
Very interesting, love to see what that looks like :grinyes:.
Very interesting, love to see what that looks like :grinyes:.
hurstg01
02-26-2011, 03:28 PM
More reading material, this time from Michael Sheehan, re the F1's in Brunei -
Imagine seeing hundreds of high-end Ferraris, Lamborghinis and McLarens—many with hardly any miles on the odometer—rotting away in tropical heat and humidity.
While much has been written of the Sultan of Brunei’s car collection—and there are no lack of spy photos of the collection on the Internet—the estimated 2,500 cars are actually not the Sultan’s. They were the property of Prince Jefri, the Sultan’s third brother. As the Minister of Finance for Brunei (until 1997) Prince Jefri controlled the revenue from oil and gas through the BIA or Brunei Investment Authority and a network of companies under the name Amadeo.
The 1997 Asian Financial Crisis depressed oil prices and triggered a financial crisis in Brunei. The Sultan had Arthur Andersen audit the BIA books, which showed that between 1983 and mid-1998 some $40 billion in “special transfers” were made by the BIA, and that Prince Jefri had personally squandered $14.8 billion. In July 1998, Prince Jefri’s Amadeo investment group collapsed under $10 billion in debt. In 2000, Prince Jefri settled with the government of Brunei and began to return assets—including more than 500 properties in Brunei and abroad, more than 2,000 cars, 100 paintings, five yachts, and nine world-class aircraft. According to court documents, the Prince spent $78 million at Pininfarina SpA for coachbuilt RHD Ferraris, $475 million at Rolls-Royce and $900 million at British jeweler Asprey.
Will fly to buy
In early 2002, I was offered a package of 13 very special Ferraris and McLaren F1s from the collection by a Brunei importer. After the usual negotiations, I agreed to buy two McLarens, a Ferrari F40 LM and a 288 GTO Evoluzione for clients, with an option to buy another 16 McLarens and Ferraris.
In May 2002, I flew to Brunei and stayed at the Empire Hotel. Commissioned by Prince Jefri and built at a cost of $1.1 billion, the Empire Hotel is beyond opulent. The Empire was built to hold over 1,000 guests, but I never saw more than a dozen people anywhere in the hotel at any time. I also visited the Jerudong Park, the largest and most expensive amusement park in Southeast Asia, which was also commissioned by Prince Jefri for a modest $1 billion. Like the Empire hotel, it was empty. A strict Muslim country, Brunei has no alcohol, virtually no nightlife and hence no tourists.
A maximum-security prison for Cars
I was picked up by an ex-New Zealand Special Forces (SAS) officer working as a bodyguard for the Brunei Royal Family. The car collection was a few kilometers down the coast and housed in a large compound surrounded by a high wall topped with razor wire and with a “bomb-proof” front gate. Once inside, we had to turn in our cameras and passports and stay with our guide, as armed Gurkhas with very serious German Shepherds patrolled the compound.
We first went through eight two-story buildings—each about 250 feet long by 60 feet wide—with each level holding about 120 cars. Each level had a semblance of a theme, with the first building filled with Porsches from 959s up to cars from the late 1990s. Another floor held mainly black-on-black 1996-97 Mercedes-Benz 500 sedans. Another building held coachbuilt Rolls-Royces, Bentleys and Aston Martins. Another building held mainly 1990s model Ferraris, including a few dozen 456s and 550s. Several 550s were fitted with experimental XTRAC automatic gearboxes. About a half a dozen were coated in radar-absorbent, matte-black coatings and fitted with infrared cameras for night driving, which is high-tech stuff for the late 1990s.
Ferraris and McLaren F1s cooking into Goo
Another lower floor held rows of RHD Testarossas, 512 TRs and F512 Ms. Another building contained mainly coachbuilt Ferraris with four 456 four-doors, four 456 Venice Cabriolets, more 456 Venice station wagons, five FXs, a pair of Mythos and an incredibly ugly one-off called an F90. The token Enzo-era Ferrari was a RHD 275 GTS, s/n 7795.
Between the eight large buildings was a glass-walled showroom with three McLaren F1s, a 288 GTO Evo, an F50 and an F40 LM. The F40 LM was black with a black leather interior, red piping, air conditioning, and power windows.
As in the other buildings, the air conditioning was off, so the showroom had become a very efficient greenhouse, and the cars were cooking away.
Underneath this building was a windowless theatre filled with rows of RHD F40s, 288 GTOs and other exotics.
A reef’s worth of derelict Mercedes
At the back of the compound were two long, two-story buildings about fifty feet apart. A corrugated tin roof between them offered some protection from the blistering sun—but not from the rain. Under the shade were another 300 or so 1995-97 500 SELs and SLs, all black/black, many with the windows down, all rotting into oblivion. Many were AMG specials with wood or carbon fiber trimmed interiors, big motors, etc. We soon called this group as “the reef” as turning them into an artificial ocean reef was probably their best use. As an example, a 1997ish Rolls-Royce convertible was near the Mercedes-Benz fleet, but it was under a real roof and better protected. The roof notwithstanding, the Rolls had gotten so hot with the windows up that the steering wheel’s foam padding had melted into a puddle on the driver’s seat and the leather wrap hung from the barren steel rim. The entire interior had “gone off” with mold in the heat and humidity and the interior was a fuzzy gray!
A single-story building held 60 or so truly unique cars, most in a very bright yellow—including a row of four-wheel-drive Bentley Station wagons and a dozen late-model Lamborghinis. A few non-yellow cars, such as a black 456 Venice wagon with mirrored side windows were also in this building. A side room was filled with high-end motorcycles, while another room was filled with hundreds of empty Rolex, Cartier and Patek Philippe watch presentation boxes.
Behind one of the buildings was a row of “lesser” cars, including the collection’s token Corvette—all destroyed by the sun and rain. The mechanics had left in 1998, and nothing was in drivable condition. What had once been the planet’s largest collection of coachbuilt and high-end exotics was now a vast automotive tomb, patrolled only by a few Gurkhas with dogs.
Poster children for a study in deferred maintenance
When I totaled things up, there were less than 100 Ferraris, and only a few hundred cars in total were commercially viable. All had minimal mileage—but all were also poster children for deferred maintenance.
The lesser cars were beyond saving. None had been started in five years. Our offer was cheerfully accepted by the importer who offered the cars, but none of them came with any service records. Even worse, none had titles and getting a bill of sale or export documents was almost impossible, as the mid-level bureaucrats were paralyzed by indecision or the fear of making a political mistake and issuing export paperwork. While my trip to Brunei was an amazing cultural and automotive experience, we were never able to get a car out of the collection. Eight more years in a steamy tropical rain forest has certainly not helped any of these cars.
http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/images/SCM_201103_SS_Pg_2_Im_02.jpg 1988 Ferrari Testarossa F90 Speciale
The local officials have no to plans to save or to sell the collection, and the cost to turn it into a tourist attraction would be staggering. Over the last eight years less than a dozen significant cars have left, most as gifts to well-connected expats. Another few hundred pedestrian Mercedes-Benzes have been given to Brunei locals, but the bulk of the collection is still there and will die there, rotting into oblivion.
Imagine seeing hundreds of high-end Ferraris, Lamborghinis and McLarens—many with hardly any miles on the odometer—rotting away in tropical heat and humidity.
While much has been written of the Sultan of Brunei’s car collection—and there are no lack of spy photos of the collection on the Internet—the estimated 2,500 cars are actually not the Sultan’s. They were the property of Prince Jefri, the Sultan’s third brother. As the Minister of Finance for Brunei (until 1997) Prince Jefri controlled the revenue from oil and gas through the BIA or Brunei Investment Authority and a network of companies under the name Amadeo.
The 1997 Asian Financial Crisis depressed oil prices and triggered a financial crisis in Brunei. The Sultan had Arthur Andersen audit the BIA books, which showed that between 1983 and mid-1998 some $40 billion in “special transfers” were made by the BIA, and that Prince Jefri had personally squandered $14.8 billion. In July 1998, Prince Jefri’s Amadeo investment group collapsed under $10 billion in debt. In 2000, Prince Jefri settled with the government of Brunei and began to return assets—including more than 500 properties in Brunei and abroad, more than 2,000 cars, 100 paintings, five yachts, and nine world-class aircraft. According to court documents, the Prince spent $78 million at Pininfarina SpA for coachbuilt RHD Ferraris, $475 million at Rolls-Royce and $900 million at British jeweler Asprey.
Will fly to buy
In early 2002, I was offered a package of 13 very special Ferraris and McLaren F1s from the collection by a Brunei importer. After the usual negotiations, I agreed to buy two McLarens, a Ferrari F40 LM and a 288 GTO Evoluzione for clients, with an option to buy another 16 McLarens and Ferraris.
In May 2002, I flew to Brunei and stayed at the Empire Hotel. Commissioned by Prince Jefri and built at a cost of $1.1 billion, the Empire Hotel is beyond opulent. The Empire was built to hold over 1,000 guests, but I never saw more than a dozen people anywhere in the hotel at any time. I also visited the Jerudong Park, the largest and most expensive amusement park in Southeast Asia, which was also commissioned by Prince Jefri for a modest $1 billion. Like the Empire hotel, it was empty. A strict Muslim country, Brunei has no alcohol, virtually no nightlife and hence no tourists.
A maximum-security prison for Cars
I was picked up by an ex-New Zealand Special Forces (SAS) officer working as a bodyguard for the Brunei Royal Family. The car collection was a few kilometers down the coast and housed in a large compound surrounded by a high wall topped with razor wire and with a “bomb-proof” front gate. Once inside, we had to turn in our cameras and passports and stay with our guide, as armed Gurkhas with very serious German Shepherds patrolled the compound.
We first went through eight two-story buildings—each about 250 feet long by 60 feet wide—with each level holding about 120 cars. Each level had a semblance of a theme, with the first building filled with Porsches from 959s up to cars from the late 1990s. Another floor held mainly black-on-black 1996-97 Mercedes-Benz 500 sedans. Another building held coachbuilt Rolls-Royces, Bentleys and Aston Martins. Another building held mainly 1990s model Ferraris, including a few dozen 456s and 550s. Several 550s were fitted with experimental XTRAC automatic gearboxes. About a half a dozen were coated in radar-absorbent, matte-black coatings and fitted with infrared cameras for night driving, which is high-tech stuff for the late 1990s.
Ferraris and McLaren F1s cooking into Goo
Another lower floor held rows of RHD Testarossas, 512 TRs and F512 Ms. Another building contained mainly coachbuilt Ferraris with four 456 four-doors, four 456 Venice Cabriolets, more 456 Venice station wagons, five FXs, a pair of Mythos and an incredibly ugly one-off called an F90. The token Enzo-era Ferrari was a RHD 275 GTS, s/n 7795.
Between the eight large buildings was a glass-walled showroom with three McLaren F1s, a 288 GTO Evo, an F50 and an F40 LM. The F40 LM was black with a black leather interior, red piping, air conditioning, and power windows.
As in the other buildings, the air conditioning was off, so the showroom had become a very efficient greenhouse, and the cars were cooking away.
Underneath this building was a windowless theatre filled with rows of RHD F40s, 288 GTOs and other exotics.
A reef’s worth of derelict Mercedes
At the back of the compound were two long, two-story buildings about fifty feet apart. A corrugated tin roof between them offered some protection from the blistering sun—but not from the rain. Under the shade were another 300 or so 1995-97 500 SELs and SLs, all black/black, many with the windows down, all rotting into oblivion. Many were AMG specials with wood or carbon fiber trimmed interiors, big motors, etc. We soon called this group as “the reef” as turning them into an artificial ocean reef was probably their best use. As an example, a 1997ish Rolls-Royce convertible was near the Mercedes-Benz fleet, but it was under a real roof and better protected. The roof notwithstanding, the Rolls had gotten so hot with the windows up that the steering wheel’s foam padding had melted into a puddle on the driver’s seat and the leather wrap hung from the barren steel rim. The entire interior had “gone off” with mold in the heat and humidity and the interior was a fuzzy gray!
A single-story building held 60 or so truly unique cars, most in a very bright yellow—including a row of four-wheel-drive Bentley Station wagons and a dozen late-model Lamborghinis. A few non-yellow cars, such as a black 456 Venice wagon with mirrored side windows were also in this building. A side room was filled with high-end motorcycles, while another room was filled with hundreds of empty Rolex, Cartier and Patek Philippe watch presentation boxes.
Behind one of the buildings was a row of “lesser” cars, including the collection’s token Corvette—all destroyed by the sun and rain. The mechanics had left in 1998, and nothing was in drivable condition. What had once been the planet’s largest collection of coachbuilt and high-end exotics was now a vast automotive tomb, patrolled only by a few Gurkhas with dogs.
Poster children for a study in deferred maintenance
When I totaled things up, there were less than 100 Ferraris, and only a few hundred cars in total were commercially viable. All had minimal mileage—but all were also poster children for deferred maintenance.
The lesser cars were beyond saving. None had been started in five years. Our offer was cheerfully accepted by the importer who offered the cars, but none of them came with any service records. Even worse, none had titles and getting a bill of sale or export documents was almost impossible, as the mid-level bureaucrats were paralyzed by indecision or the fear of making a political mistake and issuing export paperwork. While my trip to Brunei was an amazing cultural and automotive experience, we were never able to get a car out of the collection. Eight more years in a steamy tropical rain forest has certainly not helped any of these cars.
http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/images/SCM_201103_SS_Pg_2_Im_02.jpg 1988 Ferrari Testarossa F90 Speciale
The local officials have no to plans to save or to sell the collection, and the cost to turn it into a tourist attraction would be staggering. Over the last eight years less than a dozen significant cars have left, most as gifts to well-connected expats. Another few hundred pedestrian Mercedes-Benzes have been given to Brunei locals, but the bulk of the collection is still there and will die there, rotting into oblivion.
svxit
02-26-2011, 10:02 PM
Wow. If I'm reading this correctly, he was unable to procure any of the Ferrari’s or McLaren’s he went there for ... so the lot of them have basically rotted, save 014 and Stroll’s car? :shakehead
Peloton25
02-26-2011, 10:44 PM
Yes, a rather disappointing story.
One point of clarification, Stroll's F1 was probably never a Brunei car. I suspected that it had been for a very long time given his association with Brunei (and openly suggested it as a theory on the chassis number) but no longer believe that is correct.
>8^)
ER
One point of clarification, Stroll's F1 was probably never a Brunei car. I suspected that it had been for a very long time given his association with Brunei (and openly suggested it as a theory on the chassis number) but no longer believe that is correct.
>8^)
ER
svxit
02-26-2011, 10:53 PM
Yes, a rather disappointing story.
One point of clarification, Stroll's F1 was probably never a Brunei car. I suspected that it had been for a very long time given his association with Brunei (and openly suggested it as a theory on the chassis number) but no longer believe that is correct.
>8^)
ER
Oh no, that makes it worse then ... 014 is the only known (F1) escapee. Such a disappointment, as there were so many historically significant cars there. I can only hope that at least the F1's may have fared somewhat better than the example of the RR given above.
One point of clarification, Stroll's F1 was probably never a Brunei car. I suspected that it had been for a very long time given his association with Brunei (and openly suggested it as a theory on the chassis number) but no longer believe that is correct.
>8^)
ER
Oh no, that makes it worse then ... 014 is the only known (F1) escapee. Such a disappointment, as there were so many historically significant cars there. I can only hope that at least the F1's may have fared somewhat better than the example of the RR given above.
Thorst13
02-27-2011, 07:19 AM
It's hard to think about all those fantastic McLarens just rotting...why can't they just sell them to highest bidder as they obviously don't care!?
cabrio92
02-27-2011, 03:31 PM
Very interesting,
very very sad
:(
Think it's possible to never see black LM...
It could be interesting to know which maintenance was made when #072 was sold after a long time no running.
Phil
very very sad
:(
Think it's possible to never see black LM...
It could be interesting to know which maintenance was made when #072 was sold after a long time no running.
Phil
BMW.WilliamsF1Team
02-27-2011, 05:06 PM
It's hard to think about all those fantastic McLarens just rotting...why can't they just sell them to highest bidder as they obviously don't care!?
Seems to me he/they don't care enough for the money they would get for them and can easily afford to leave them there. He's not a car guy...his brother was the one.
This makes the process even more difficult:
Even worse, none had titles and getting a bill of sale or export documents was almost impossible, as the mid-level bureaucrats were paralyzed by indecision or the fear of making a political mistake and issuing export paperwork.
Maybe I'll give it a shot in a few years and head over there. ;)
Seems to me he/they don't care enough for the money they would get for them and can easily afford to leave them there. He's not a car guy...his brother was the one.
This makes the process even more difficult:
Even worse, none had titles and getting a bill of sale or export documents was almost impossible, as the mid-level bureaucrats were paralyzed by indecision or the fear of making a political mistake and issuing export paperwork.
Maybe I'll give it a shot in a few years and head over there. ;)
mini magic
02-27-2011, 06:57 PM
014 wasn't an "escapee". It was never part of the "Brunei Collection". It was owned by someone else in Brunei
F1GTRUeno
02-27-2011, 07:34 PM
We can simply live in hope that some point in the future something will change and these cars will all be sold off.
Of course when and in what condition is another matter.
AFAIK Prince Jefri lives in London nowadays, wonder just how hard it would be to strike up a conversation with him about the cars, assuming you had the right connections.
Of course when and in what condition is another matter.
AFAIK Prince Jefri lives in London nowadays, wonder just how hard it would be to strike up a conversation with him about the cars, assuming you had the right connections.
basman007
02-28-2011, 04:29 PM
He, I recognize that :p I wonder how long ago he wrote that and sat on it :p
basman007
02-28-2011, 04:31 PM
Seems to me he/they don't care enough for the money they would get for them and can easily afford to leave them there. He's not a car guy...his brother was the one.
alot of people think this, but it isn't completely like that.
alot of people think this, but it isn't completely like that.
Peloton25
02-28-2011, 04:54 PM
014 wasn't an "escapee". It was never part of the "Brunei Collection". It was owned by someone else in Brunei
Now he tells us... :p ;)
>8^)
ER
Now he tells us... :p ;)
>8^)
ER
mini magic
02-28-2011, 06:49 PM
btw, that Sheehan article is a few years old (~4+). The cars are probably a lot worse now :(
Automotive Network, Inc., Copyright ©2026