timing mark mystery

I had this posted in several Honda forums - no one knows the answer. Honda dealership does not know the answer. Everyone tells me to use white timing mark to set TDC and as reference, and I do not have one on the pulley. maybe someone here knows what those marks are?

91 Civic LX, DPFI engine. Automatic.

can someone, please, post CLEAR PICTURE OF WHAT THOSE TIMING MARKS SUPPOSED TO LOOK LIKE? and which one is the timing one?

this is what i have on my engine:
1. on camshaft sprocket, UP mark, 2 horizontal marks, and a 3rd mark, pointing at about 50 degrees angle towards radiator. and yes, there's a plastic cover or something, below the 3rd mark, with a pointer up. 3rd mark and that pointer ARE NOT aligned, with the horizontal marks parallel to the engine block.(i have found reference to the 3rd mark as "SI camshaft mark" and with SI camshaft, horizontal notches are not supposed to be used for TDC setting, but the angled mark. but that's in CRX manual)
2. on drivebelt pulley, there are 2 sets of marks: 3 notches in a cluster, with middle notch red; then, about 3/4 of an inch clockwise, set of 2 notches. NO WHITE MARK.
3. on timing belt sprocket, there's a notch; on engine block, there's a pointer. with red mark aligned with timing belt cover and 2 horizontal notches aligned with engine block, that pointer is about 1 1/2 tooth misaligned with the sprocket notch. but!! it looks like that, should i have sprocket mark aligned with pointer, it'll align the 3rd mark on the camshaft sprocket with its pointer.
4. engine starts and runs fine, no signs of bad timing. slight "too advanced timing" noise. red notch(now it's shiny, so i CAN SEE IT) is about an inch clockwise towards the firewall on drivebelt pulley. distributor maxed out on retarding timing.
belt was previously replaced, as it says "made in Germany" on it. timing marks were previously aligned exactly the way i have them now.

btw, are those belts supposed to be that loose? one that was there was loose, i did by the book tensioner adjustment - it's loose same way. of course, Haynes proved itself to be useless in this area.....

basically, counting all the notches, i have 12 marks to figure.....

this is how i have timing aligned. engine is NOT SI engine.

http://i42.tinypic.com/213hqbo.jpg

It looks like you have the head one set correctly, and yes you are correct, the bottom notch is never really lined up with the plastic pointer (mine have always been like half a tooth off). As for the bottom pulley, you do have it wrong. The 3 notches are used once the car is running and you are setting the timing on the distributor with a timing light. There should be only one other notch (not 2). This 1 notch is used for TDC. Your car is old enough that I doubt you'll still have the white or red paint on the gear. Look very closely that the 2 notches and see if you can figure out which one is the "true" notch and use that to set your timing. This is the same for both SI and non SI motors.

The 3rd mark on the Cam is for the d16z6

It looks like you have the head one set correctly, and yes you are correct, the bottom notch is never really lined up with the plastic pointer (mine have always been like half a tooth off). As for the bottom pulley, you do have it wrong. The 3 notches are used once the car is running and you are setting the timing on the distributor with a timing light. There should be only one other notch (not 2). This 1 notch is used for TDC. Your car is old enough that I doubt you'll still have the white or red paint on the gear. Look very closely that the 2 notches and see if you can figure out which one is the "true" notch and use that to set your timing. This is the same for both SI and non SI motors.

well, tough, i have 2 notches to the right. there's no telling which one is one. i am assuming, it is, actually, not a notch, but RIDGE BETWEEN THE NOTCHES that should be used as reference mark.

to the hell with this. i'll just set it by screwdriver tomorrow. to move the belt over, i do not have to disassemble parts that must be to remove it. will be faster.

yes, i know, angular mark on the cam sprocket and mark on the timing belt sprocket should be used for SI engine, and mine is not.

wouldn't that much timing off manifest itself adversely somehow? as she's running very well, surprisingly.

not to be an ass - appreciate your response. took 3 days to get a definitive answer out of 3 forums. i expected much more knowledge, appears, folks here are da best.

Nope, the 3rd is not for the Si engine, it is for the D16Z6 engine, and I believe for that engine only. It just has to be the pain in the ass in the bunch.

Ya, I've done a shit load of swaps and I have like 6 d series motors in the garage/storage unit and I've never seen one with 2 notches for the tdc mark and that includes b series too. Here is something that might help - I just went out and measured one of my 6 pulleys in my extra parts bin - the distance between the middle mark of the 3 and the single tdc mark is just a hair over 15/16 of an inch. Hope this helps.

Also, if those notches are like really close (like 1/8 of an inch), it won't make any difference, there isn't that much play in the timing belt.