Im SORRY 91 Lumina

My boyfriend purchased this lumina. Things were going alright. Now, the car stalls at idle so he must drive with two feet.
Let me give you a bit more history.
Seafoamed the crank case and gas tank, after that, it stalled constantly. It never did before.
I recommended he change the plugs, as me and my brothers have had to do in the past. Great. Plugs were dirty and for one day, everything was running perfect. Then it started again. Loss of power and stalling. So, I recommended plugs again. When he was checking them, he noticed one wire was missing a chunk (the new wires) and so that was replaced. It did fine for about 15 minutes after and then started again.

It was fine UNTIL the seafoam and 2 times after the spark plugs and wires.
I did change the oil after. Immediately after. 10 minutes actually and it was black.

I have recommended checking the coils. I just can not help but feel this is spark plug related being that after they were replaced, it was perfect for a day or so and then the chunk and then it was fine and now... I just dont know. I feel like crap because he just got the car and Im the one who had him do the seafoam.
Any one have experience with this?
Ive used seafoam on my jeep, my honda, my brothers 3 cars, friends vehicles.... never had this problem.

Are there any codes? check engine light on? You can check for flash codes by crossing the A&B on the ALDA connector located just below the steering column. For more information on this proceedure look at the following link. www.troublecodes.net (http://www.troublecodes.net)

What ever the case get a quick scan from your parts supplier and look for obvious things like vacuum leaks and bad wires.

Keep cleaning those plugs until things clear up.

No check engine light. It only comes on when it is being cranked and stays on for 2 seconds, then gone.
I said that about the plugs, but its hard because in that lumina, 3 are located under/behind the engine so the engine has to be lifted.

I'm sure with some ingunity and assorted tools there has to be a way to get those buggers out without moving the engine.
If the front plugs were bad then the others will be bad as well. From your description it sounded like the plugs were all fouled up?

The first time, yes they were all bad. Then they were changed and it still did it. So I recommended the check again and that is when the plugs were fine, but the wire was missing a chunk. Something cut a little chunk out. That was today. Then it was replaced and fine for a few starts and then back to the same ways.

On my 92 olds 3.8 I was able to get it up and going with the advice from this forum. I was advised to clean the throttle body and the Idle air control valve/passages with great results without spending a great deal of money.
This is a simple proceedure and worked great, however I would still follow the test proceedures outlined on the link that I sent you for other hidden problems that may exist.

Loss of power and stall, start by doing some diagnosis, codes first then check fuel pressure, 37 psi is required. Also does it have a roughness or misfire like an ignition problem. If not the plugs and coils are not an issue.

It idles rough. Once going though, its good.
I have to figure out how to produce codes without a check engine light. I am going to clean the throttle body tomorrow. I planned on also using sea foam in the brake booster and flush out some of the other junk also.

Seafoam in the booster??, what is that, something wrong there, no way!!!

What do you mean? That is the way I have used it on every vehicle. That or straight in the intake for my Jeep. When I did the seafoam on his, it was in the crankcase. I had never done that way before and I can tell you, I never will again.

When you turn the key to the run posistion (not start) does the check engine light illuminate? If it does then you can get the flash codes outlined on the troublecodes.net web site.
If the light does not illuminate, then you will need to get a scan or code reader to get codes.
I would'nt use the seafoam any more. You need to find out what is wrong first.
That miracle juice is not going to fix your car.

Right on. The ONLY reason I was thinking of Seafoam again is because when in your crankcase it can cause a lot of gunk to go places it shouldnt. I was thinking and assuming and hoping that the seafoam in the booster or intake can blow that stuff out of there and I can at least have that part off of my mind.

i would never seafoam a car. EVER. let alone the gas tank.

my dad tried that once with a car i had--it killed it. dead. it smoked so bad after that i had to have it hauled off.:banghead: What i think it did was make the rings stick--bad stuff.

ALSO, depending on how bad it smoked--you could very well have clogged the catalitic converter. they dont like masses of oil dumped down them.

i would say that since the problem started with the seafoam, it's in the things it could effect.

1.) still too much of it in the feul.
1a.) oiled up and clogged the feul filters (an old filter doesnt accomagate oil very well--some people think the gas thins it out, it doesnt--dilutes it, but the oil molecules remain--and stick in the element)
1b.) something broke loose and, if you're flooding out, an injector is now stuck
1c.) could have messed up the o2 sensor (again, oil.. ).
2.) a bunch of crap came off the lower crank case into your oil, OR, from the valves (oiled up carbon, etc) droppped down into the cylinder, and did many horrible things there (for me, it made the rings stick together).
3.) the oil it had to shove through made a already weak catalitic converter plug up.

i dont think the plugs have anything to do with it--they're just a symptom of a larger problem. to change the plugs, pop loose the front motor mounts, that are on top of the engine (dogbones, i've heard them called) and then pull the engine forward... plugs are easy to get to then (pull forward with ropes, a winch, or something creative. takes less than 5 minutes.

those are just my biased opinions.

Seafoamed the crank case and gas tank, after that, it stalled constantly.

All that needed to be stated...

What do you mean? That is the way I have used it on every vehicle. That or straight in the intake for my Jeep. When I did the seafoam on his, it was in the crankcase. I had never done that way before and I can tell you, I never will again.
Your post said " seafoam in the brake booster', not thru the booster hose, thus my comment.

Sorry brake booster is one of the methods used. Yes, the hose. No, I didnt do it through the brake booster yet as I do in all my vehicles. I did it in the crankcase....which I had never done. Hence why I feel like crap about it. I have used seafoam for years and loved it. Brought my cherokee back after some issues also.

I DID change the oil twice after AND kept the fuel full in an attempt to dilute it. I am still thinking EGR Valve and as you guys said, O2 sensor or CC.

I am going to research how to clean the valve tomorrow as I have a friend that is doing his truck tomorrow also. Then I will go to the O2 sensor. I was just thinking maybe, just maybe the seafoam through the brake booster line would push that carbon and build up out of there. Now you guys have scared me.

Fuel pressure Check: key on, engine off, min. pres. 40.5psi, max. pres.47.5psi; engine running, maximum pres. drop 10psi, with minimum running pres. of 37psi, as stated earlier by MAXWEDGE.

...I feel like crap because he just got the car and Im the one who had him do the seafoam.
Any one have experience with this?
Ive used seafoam on my jeep, my honda, my brothers 3 cars, friends vehicles.... never had this problem.

There will be nothing productive resulting from feeling guilty. What has been done is done. Move forward, and repair the problem.

Any experience with this? Definitely.



I saw a running Pontiac 400 ruined with SeaFoam in the crankcase. Fortunately, the owner understood that the car was worth saving the engine (1968 Firebird) and the new rings and pistons "undid" the SeaFoam treatment. He now has a 409 RA (the damage from the broken rings was cleaned up at 0.040" overbore). I'll never understand why people would put alcohol and water in a crankcase.

No matter, to avoid feeling guilty about this ever again, learn from mistakes and never do it again. Surely, many people do this. Many people also free-rev or load a cold engine, and they never think twice about the potential damage they are causing. Many of those engine survive (for a while) so they feel no remorse in abusing an engine. People used to throw handfuls of walnut shells through a wide open carb on a Ford flathead to break up the carbon, instead of removing the heads and doing a proper job. Since many of them survived the abuse, they thought there was nothing wrong with the idea. Thousands of people use Prolong in their engines untill the class-action suit and FTC settlement forced it off the market. Some of those abused engines might even still be running. None of that means those were the "right" things to do. People just got away with it for a while, not unlike politicians not paying income taxes. Eventually, it will bite back.



As for the problem at hand, diagnosis instead of guessing will identify the problem(s). A cylinder leakage test should reveal if there has been any mechanical damage. A cranking compression test is a second best method if a leakage tester is not available. If there is mechanical damage, no amount of spark plugs, coils, wires, ICMs, ECMs, or fuel pressure will matter.

Testing spark is another good step. Make sure the spark energy is adequate. If you are using anything but Delco, NGK, or Champion single side electrode spark plugs, remove them and recycle them. Install real spark plugs.

If you are using anything but silicone resistance wires, remove them and throw them away. Wasted spark systems do not tolerate "designer" spark plug wires for long.

Thanks guys! Im starting on the list now.