Bad paint...?

I went to an annual car modeling show this past weekend. I've been going to this event for several years now, and it's always fun to see other people's builds. But one thing that struck me (as it has every time I've been to this event) was just how many bad paint jobs there were. Not just a healthy handful- I would say that the significant majority (maybe 75%?) were poorly painted. It seemed very few builds were free of texture, dust, splatter marks, etc.

It was very strange. It's obvious that most builders had put real effort into their work- yet it seemed most either couldn't be bothered or didn't know how to apply a smooth, even, realistic looking paint job. On many builds it was easy to see that the builder had done a great deal of terrific bodywork, or had selected a perfect shade of iridescent pearl paint- yet all to often an otherwise standout build was wearing a coat of paint that looked quickly and carelessly applied.

Paint flaws seem to jump out at me. Its the first thing I see when I look at a completed model. Yet strangely, perfect paint jobs (and there certainly were some there!) do not seem to jump out. They look great, but somehow seem less noticible.

At the few judged IPMS shows I've been to, cars have been judged on paint quality first. It doesn't matter at all if you've opened and hinged the doors, added a wicked bodykit, or scratchbuilt an engine- if the body paintwork is flawed, the build is instantly eliminated by the judges from competition (and often a field of fifteen entrants is immediately reduced to a pool of three real compeditors). The judges consider it as thee basic, principle skill in car modeling. And I realise that this is how I see model cars also- customising and detailing are secondary skills, but if you haven't got a good paint job you don't have anything.

While it is a basic skill, it is of course not so easy that anyone can do it their first time. Yet it is also not at all difficult. It is simply a learned skill. I remember not being able to consistently paint car bodies- and I remember learning how to do it. (For many years now, it's been one of the most satisfying and enjoyable parts of car modeling- putting the time and patience into having it come out just right, and then having the results to reward that effort.) But like all worthwhile skills, it must be learned. No one can drive a car quickly around a track, fix a good curry, fly a helicopter, brew a good beer, etc, either without learning how first. So why would car modelers not bother to learn how to paint bodies?

Am I overly critical or obsessive? I think that my standards for paint quality have been set by over the years by the quality of the work shown on this forum (and by my own experiences and abilities). Is the work regularly shown here appreciably better that you would see elsewhere? I'm not interested in being overly critical (nor in promoting this community as being the bestest group of builders anywhere, etc). I certainly wouldn't say that if you had a build at this show that it was poor (there were many excellent builds there). But I was very surprised about the general level of standard there compared to here.

Has anyone else seen this (at shows, on other forums, elsewhere) or thought about it? Does a paintjob make or break a model for you? (Am I just an @sshole for thinking/saying that other's builds can and should be better?)

I'm curious to hear thoughts.

That's quite a thought-provoking post! If you'll allow a newbie's take on this issue I'd like to share some of my thoughts. What follows are simply thoughts and observations - please don't interpret them as being criticisms of any kind.

I've been in this hobby for one whole year now (I feel so old!) having come here from a very different kind of modelling and modelling culture, that of military figure modelling. I still have my old figure habits and I'm still steeped in that culture, so this world is all rather strange to me, if also hugely enjoyable.

My eyes tend to see the whole picture of a model, not just the paintwork, not just the construction, not just the scratchbuilding, not just the presentation - but a combination of all of them. I fully understand the ethos that if the body paintwork is less than inspiring, the model is somehow less good but I am suprised by quite how much store is placed on producing a flawless paint job often at the (obvious) expense of other areas. To my mind, if the paintwork is flawless but the construction (for example) of the kit is slightly lacking in quality, the whole model is also lacking in quality - and the stunning quality of the paint won't deflect that viewpoint. I too believe that applying paint is a fundamental skill of the modeller, but so too are all the other skills. Personally, I don't put one skill above the others - they all need to be present, and present to a high standard.

In this last year I have been (and continue to be) amazed by the number of comments on this and another forum along the lines of "Great shine!", "So shiny!" & "Wicked paintjob!" as if that, and that alone, was all that mattered in a model car. So many times even my relatively untrained eyes will pick out major flaws and errors elsewhere on the model but it seems to me that to many people they don't matter, as long as the paintjob is "wicked".

This brings me nicely along to another point: why do paintjobs have to be so damn shiny?? To my eyes thsoe mirror finish 'wet look' paintjobs look, quite frankly, entirely unrealistic. Other than at national motor shows where the latest Ferraris et al are presented in a mega-polished condition under a billion candle power of spotlights, and photogrpahed form particular angles, where do we see that level of shine and perfection?

I quit ther competitive modelling scene a few ears ago having achieved considerable success in my field on both side of the Atlantic, and I have no intention of becoming embroiled in competitions again. Good luck and best wishes to all those who do choose to be competitive but I will continue to learn what I can from the best modellers around and then sit quietly at home building models to my satisfaction, and mine alone.

Thanks MPWR for raising the topic; I think it's worth discussing and I look forward to reading other thoughts.
Jon.

I will try to give my opinion because it's a hard but good subject.

First thing I want to say is that everybody hasn't the same appreciation of what is a good paint. For some a good paint is a fuly cleared coated and waxed paint, for some a good paint is only good coats of paint, etc.
For your example, wasn't you only judging those paint bad because you think you always get perfect paints ?
What you judge a good or bad paint according to your own practice and skills isn't inevitably what others will judge with the same sight and conclusion.
there also are builders that simply can't their paints aren't good, they don't realized there is dust etc... I even saw some builder entering models in contest that haven't been cleaned before painting (molding lines, resin flash etc)

Second thing, everyone don't have the same skills and either the same tools and materials and can't invest in. Do we have to blame a builder to paint out of the can while another one has a brand new lightning airbrush and compressor ? I don't thing so.

Third thing, of course paint is one of the first thing to judge, but stopping at the paint to entirely judge a model is really frustrating and unfair for the builder who probably failed making his best paint ever while he may have attempted his best modifications ever in the same time.
A model imo has to stay judged under a full view even if a really bad paint is a good sign of lack of skills.
But lack of paint skills doesn't and hasn't to mean lack of skills at all. Some of the contestors may have a lack of practice, but a certain talent, shall we have to blame them for a lack of practice, for being newbies...
I don't think so.

I've been part of judges in a contest, even I managed the contest and the judges (some weren't modelers but local politicians or even visitors etc) and I prefered people judging the whole thing, with each quality and flaws, better than eliminating one model or figurine because of only one element.

To conclude I want to say that I think everyone judge a model mostly by depending on his own skills and habilities.
modeling events are also made to learn, to share, not only to be roudhly judged by someone having more years of practice, more money to invest in materials and tools or in better/ best paints and tools, even more talent probably too, or simply more time to gice to what stays a hobby. I think we should keep in mind that it's not a job but a hobby and most modelers even contest enters made a model for fun, to change their mind, to reflect a passion, not to be judge under a professional sight when they aren't professional.
That said, I can only agree with the fact I would always prefer seeing perfect models in contests, but we have to accept differences existing in every modelers and every point of view and way of judging a model.

I understand your feeling, but I also thing you may be too rude when you judge paints, because tht's probably where you make difference with other modelers, but what you point out on paints could be what other will point out on another part of the builds (details, etc).
I think that's what continues to bring interest show after show, model after model, people meet after people meet, we always find something new, sometimes worse that what we do ourselves - then ,simply try to discuss and understand reasons of, and teach sharing your experience - but sometimes also better than what we practice, and so ask, listen and learn !

That's how I see this hobby, which talking about myself I can't give enough time and energy and money to as I would like to these last 2/3 years...


Thanks for reading (hoping if was understandable english)

It is possible that the way some (or perhaps most) modellers build, by the time that they've finished the detailing of a car, they are not left with enough time to properly paint a car body in time for the contest.

Of course, I do understand your point but I see it as part of a context.
Yes a car body should have flawless paint and flaws really should be unacceptable. The same is true for the detailing of the minutiae.
It should if possible be there but it should also be of a high quality.
To me, dust in paint is the same thing as bad wiring. Everyone can wire an engine just as everyone can paint a car body. Thing is, not everyone can achive a high standard of finish.

The way I see it, your opinion on this matter is an indicator of the standards you set yourself. From what I gather, you wouldn't accept the bad finish on one of your models and so you cannot understand how someone else can. That to me is perfectly reasonable. I am far from a good model kit builder and my finishes are inconsistant as anything so I know what can occasionally be achieved by myself and that is my target. By the same token and following your line of thought, I too cannot understand how some people don't see the flaws in their (or others') paint. SOme of this I put down to inexperience of what a good paint job really looks like and some inexperienced modellers confuse the nice shine you get from an untouched clear (or colour) coat with a perfectly flat and flawless paint finish.

One thing I have also noticed and learnt, is that the camera is a great hider of flaws.
There is the possibility that some people have been hiding behind a great photo of a paint job.

I certainly don't notice bad paint being as common as you may have seen it, and I suspect it may just be an anomaly of that particular show. I know they have some very prolific builders, but I also know some of them aren't as picky about perfect paint jobs as others may be. Perhaps they just don't worry about it, or they don't push each other to excel.

I don't let it bother me, the only time I really notice is if a particular builder makes a point bragging about this or that about their paint, and when I look at the car the flaws all jump out at me. If they say nothing, I say nothing. I know someone who makes a point of talking up how they use real car paint, a real paint gun, etc. 90% of the work is nice, but that 10% of the work that consists of large-scale dust "pimples" that are not buffed out (brags that the urethane is so glossy that buffing is unnecessary...) and the inevitable dipped-in-Karo-Syrup look around (and sometimes filling in) all the panel lines, well...to each his own. I wouldn't comment yay or nay about it except he goes out of his way to brag about his style of painting and that he doesn't "have time" to spend 2 hours buffing out a paint job. I dunno, I often spend between 15-30 minutes of wetsanding/buffing, and maybe about the same amount of time in between coats. I'm a lazy painter, but I know how to hide it better :lol:

A lot of my best friends are builders, and we end up pushing each other to excel in areas that we enjoy. We get together fairly regularly to build, and don't hold back sharing any techniques that improve our work, save time, or whatever. We ask questions, opinions...and we're all better modelers for it. That kind of input is hard to get if most of your model time is spent in the typical "solitary confinement" that most modelers experience. If the people building the models at the show w/the less than perfect paint are happy, so am I. As long as they aren't bragging about that paint :lol:

Hi, i guess most of my opinions are already addressed here, somehow i agree with everybody here. Its a lot of mixed feelings here and to put the points addressed so far in quick summary, everybody has their own perception of perfection or acceptability and also maybe its due to certain circumstances (Human or external factors) that may 'restrict' them from achieving that perfection.

But sadly, i hate to admit that paint job is certainly the most important first impression in any automobile models in the eyes of many people. Although personally I feel that either modification, overall build quality or paint job are equally important, it’s inevitable for many others to develop that mindset. This is simple because, the body of a car is the most striking and not everyone cares about hard core details especially if they are hidden. Thus with this in mind, I believe every modeler should at least strive to improve their paint jobs. To me, it’s not really a problem that whether you can do a good paint job, it is whether you want to improve or learn the correct technique of painting. This is a respect to yourself, to the model you are building as well as least importantly, to others.

Next, we gotta to ask ourselves what is special or standing out from the rest of the modeling fields like military or aircraft, when it comes to automobile. I have to say it’s the difference in paintjobs. Personally I feel automobile body paintjobs are much harder than in other modeling field. I must agree that thick, shiny clear coat doesn’t look realistic and you can definitely get this finish with more than 7 wet coats of clear. But it is this issue that poses the biggest challenge for all automobile modelers, to create a realistic shiny finish. I have certainly seen people achieved that but only how many people on earth can do that? Not for me yet. Besides that, we also need a lot time, much longer than other modeling field, to hide a flaw especially in a paint job. (5 hrs of drying time is at least needed to remove something as small as a speck of dust from a wet coat of lacquer!) Why? Simple because they are SO SO SO obvious since we are dealing are smooth body surfaces. These are definitely not the main concerns of other modeling fields because they are mainly using other techniques like weathering or toning to create realistic art pieces and for that I respect them. Therefore since we understand the body paint jobs are so important to our modeling, we should make extra effort to do it. Failing to achieve perfect paint job that is fine but failing to make it an important point for serious builders shows some things about yourself.

Having been a judge before, I can understand MPWR’s feelings, its saddening to see sub-quality paint job builds. But they should deserve every single credit finishing the build and no one should blame them for the imperfections because I understand they might have their reasons. The only problem like I just mention is whether you want to accept your imperfection and whether you want to improve in the next build. I agree that not all real cars are that super polished except maybe those under spot lights in car shows, but I certainly have not seen real cars with an orange peel looking paint job, therefore I feel that automobile models may not be that shiny but at least they should be free from terrible orange peel (btw some polishing effort can get rid of them).

That said, I must say I understand that it’s impossible for every modeler to keep striving to achieve a paintjob as perfect as possible, especially so if this hobby is meant for passing time for some people. Therefore whatever I had just said are meant for those serious builders and who really cares how their finished build look like. In striving to achieve all round perfection in every aspect of building a model is a respect to myself and to the kit im building.

Ro

Well i also happen to agree with all of you guys.As a recent return to the hobby from a multidecade hiatus and just looking at the magazines the first thing i noticed were the paint jobs.Ive built about 25 models since last april and only one of them i consider a good paint job.An mp4/4 from tamiya.Half the reason i dont think they are contest-worthy is because of the paint job.I think thats because the standard for me is what ive seen in the aforementioned mags.(scale auto,tmmi,model cars.etc.)Where they have that mirror like shine.Its funny really because when friends and family see my models they all think they are very good.Me all i see is the not-so-perfect paint job.One thing i should keep in mind i guess is that the guys in the mags are usually professional modelers whereas i myself just do it for fun.But those are the standards that i have set for myself.I can file and sand add detail and fill seams but that perfect paint still eludes me.Speaking for myself i will never enter a contest unless it has mirror like shine.Also i dont have an airbrush either.But i figure if i cant do it with a rattle can i probably cant do it with an airbrush.I posted a coupla pics of a car body i thought was decent and these guys killed it.(that dtm zoom,mpr).I accepted the criticism because they are better than me so i could learn from them.In retrospect im glad i did because it showed me how far i have to go.This is the best site ive been to on the web.These guys will help you out.The quality of work on this forum almost has me ashamed to post any pics,but i continue to do so to further along my skills.All that being said as a newbie i always look at peoples paint first simply because i think that takes the most skill.