GUNZE HI-TEC kits

were/are the only highly detailed mass production kits. Anyone knows why they discontinued these kits?

Global economic downturn? The great secret anti-modeler conspiracy? Maybe they just weren't profitable to produce and sell? Who's to say? :dunno:

But I'm a bit surprised to hear that these were the only highly detailed kits ever produced. :sly:

But I'm a bit surprised to hear that these were the only highly detailed kits ever produced. :sly:

Perhaps as a highly detailed plastic kit that was available in any LHS? It would have compared well against a MFH of the day.

I picked up the Airfix Hi-Tech Ferrari 250 GTO a little while back for about US$15 from my LHS (and I promise there was no violence involved in getting it at that price!). Here are some pics of it.
Nice photoetch fret with wire wheels, leather holding straps, steering wheel and meshes
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2408.jpg
Metal chassis and white metal parts
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2409.jpg
Crisply moulded body - don't know about the accuracy though
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2410.jpg
Nice suspension detail in white metal
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2411.jpg
Quite a few bits in the dashboard and steering - nice detail
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2412.jpg
Airfix packaging - did they take it over from Gunze?
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2413.jpg
And finally - something else I found while digging this one out to photograph for you. VERY low tech, but don't you think it's an interesting subject in 1/24? It's going to take a lot of work to get it correct, but it will be worth it. Happily the body in the box doesn't look quite as awful as the box art!
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2414.jpg

I picked up the Airfix Hi-Tech Ferrari 250 GTO a little while back for about US$15 from my LHS

THAT was a pretty awesome barn find!! :eek2: Congrats :thumbsup:

Global economic downturn? The great secret anti-modeler conspiracy? Maybe they just weren't profitable to produce and sell? Who's to say? :dunno:

Actually, it was because they got bored and went on to mass produce superior instant noodles instead. Less work and they could secretly dry the noodles into rude words and dirty pictures.

But I'm a bit surprised to hear that these were the only highly detailed kits ever produced. :sly:

It's like the Enthusiast kits never happened.
What other kit range had a scale tool kit in them?

Hi-tec ramen noodles kick ass. :ylsuper:

Especially when they're used to spell out rude messages.

But I'm a bit surprised to hear that these were the only highly detailed kits ever produced. :sly:

The only among mass produced kits. MFH and others are garage companies.

I picked a couple of GUNZE Hi-Tec kits in 2000 for about 12 US$ each. If I conisder the current exchange rate it would be about 17 US$. The seller had a pile of these kits to sell. If I knew Ebay would be that popular, I would have earned a fortune by buying the two dozens he was trying to get rid off.

The only among mass produced kits. MFH and others are garage companies.

I picked a couple of GUNZE Hi-Tec kits in 2000 for about 12 US$ each. If I conisder the current exchange rate it would be about 17 US$. The seller had a pile of these kits to sell. If I knew Ebay would be that popular, I would have earned a fortune by buying the two dozens he was trying to get rid off.


Do you want to sell them to me??? I will double the amount you paid after the current exchange rate for $34... :D

Khier, there have DEFINITELY been some other mass-produced high detail kits on the market, some of which I regard as far superior to the Gunze Sangyo High Tech kits. Here's a brief sampling and I'll try to stick to 1/24th-1/25th scale kits.

Galaxie Limited 1948 Chevy Aerosedan and Sedan Delivery
Accurate Miniatures McLaren M8B and Corvette Grand Sport
AMT/Ertl Pro Shop 1957 Chevy Bel Air (although ANY new tooling kit from the John Mueller era is a gem)
Fujimi Enthusiast Series
Hasegawa Historic Sports Cars
Tamiya Historics
Trumpeter 1960 Pontiac Bonneville and 1962 Chevy Nova

As well, there is rather fine detailing in many of the current mainline kits from Revell, Fujimi, Hasegawa, and Tamiya. Even Lindberg's new Dodge Charger is quite well done.

Khier, there have DEFINITELY been some other mass-produced high detail kits on the market, some of which I regard as far superior to the Gunze Sangyo High Tech kits. Here's a brief sampling and I'll try to stick to 1/24th-1/25th scale kits.

Most of the kits you listed do not even a single piece of PE.


Galaxie Limited 1948 Chevy Aerosedan and Sedan Delivery


I LOVE them, but these are conventional plastic kits.


Accurate Miniatures McLaren M8B and Corvette Grand Sport


Well, I must admit I forgot about those.


AMT/Ertl Pro Shop 1957 Chevy Bel Air (although ANY new tooling kit from the John Mueller era is a gem)

A big NO. These fret of PE does not qualify the Pro Shop 57 Chevy to compare with the Hi-Tec series.


Fujimi Enthusiast Series


Incredibly detailed, but plastic detailing. I wish Fujimi spared the pistons of the Porsche 356 and added PE headlight covers instead.


Trumpeter 1960 Pontiac Bonneville and 1962 Chevy Nova


Oh no not the Bonneville junk of Trumpeter. This car is totally wrong inside and out. The engine and chasis are the only 2 things to praise.

Most of the kits you listed do not even a single piece of PE.

I wish Fujimi spared the pistons of the Porsche 356 and added PE headlight covers instead.


This is your definition of a high detail kit- included photoetch parts? :rolleyes:

Isn't that a bit gimmicky? There are kits where a single PE part or two is necessary to recreate a specific detail on a car- but often, it's completely unnecessary. And if the kit doesn't need it (as so many 1/24 car kits do not), I would much rather the kit manufacturer put that effort into plastic detail.

If you feel like you simply must play with bits of PE to make a build detailed, you need only to buy aftermarket sets.

Hasegawa Historic Sports Cars


Indeed very nice kits with very crisp molding, but most of them are curbside kits, or with very little engine detail and no opening doors or hood.

They also did a few Hi-Detail kits (with white metal engine details) of a couple of their plastic kits but they are rare and the prices are very high (the same range as the Gunze Hi-Tech kits).

the Union Collections Rememoratrise kits weren't bad either although the casting wasn't always the best.

Isn't that a bit gimmicky? There are kits where a single PE part or two is necessary to recreate a specific detail on a car- but often, it's completely unnecessary. And if the kit doesn't need it (as so many 1/24 car kits do not), I would much rather the kit manufacturer put that effort into plastic detail.
ooo! PhotoEtch Wars :) ;) j/k

Andy, I would fully agree with your basic premise that most kits can be turned into nicely detailed build without p/e. It's all in the hands of the individual modeller at the end of the day.

However, at the same time I can't think of many kits that wouldn't benefit from having some details in p/e rather than plastic. Given the relatively easy pre-production and low production costs involved, it is a shame that more kits don't include p/e frets as standard IMO.

Impractical -yes. Unlikely to happen - yes. As for being "gimicky", I wouldn't agree at all :D

I actually think that Khier makes a good point about the Fujimi Enthusiast kits:
Incredibly detailed, but plastic detailing. I wish Fujimi spared the pistons of the Porsche 356 and added PE headlight covers instead.
Lovely kits with oodles of details in plastic but, on the whole, they fit like sh*t and many parts would have been better in p/e.

:ylsuper:

I don't think there is any question that the sharpness and precision of an acid etched piece is better than the relatively soft cast plastic equivilant but that isn't the point being stated. The Enthusists kit are sometimes more detailed than an old Gunze kit. Rubbish, soft, fragile, badly fitting details they may be but detail it remains.

I'm glad you agree :thumbsup:

wait, I said what?
ahh... bugger.

This is your definition of a high detail kit- included photoetch parts? :rolleyes:

Isn't that a bit gimmicky? There are kits where a single PE part or two is necessary to recreate a specific detail on a car- but often, it's completely unnecessary. And if the kit doesn't need it (as so many 1/24 car kits do not), I would much rather the kit manufacturer put that effort into plastic detail.

If you feel like you simply must play with bits of PE to make a build detailed, you need only to buy aftermarket sets.

And is the number of parts is your definition of detailing? In that case you should be really happy with Trumpeter junk Bonneville, a kit that will be marked marked as a scandale in model kits for years to come.

Details means not only mass, but quality. Take a plastic steering wheel insert in one hand and a PE one in the other and you will feel the difference between a model and a toy. Detailing means accuracy, and PE greatly improves the dimensional accuracy of parts far byond what plastic parts can reach.

is this where we move onto the argument over modelling and kit building?

the Union Collections Rememoratrise kits weren't bad either although the casting wasn't always the best.

Indeed not bad for 1970's Heller originals. I took a look at one of the Porsche 917 kits one of these days and I decided I'll buy a Fujimi.

I'd love to know how white metal has become a pillar of "high-tech" kits.

It's horrible stuff to work with. Parts quality is generally far inferior to good resin or plastic, often it's warped, has a ton of flash.

It's a crutch that I really wish these high $$ producers would quit using so much.

There is no reason for a MFH kit to have so much white metal where resin will do, especially for hoods/decklids that fit into resin parts. They really don't fit.

They use white metal because it is CHEAP, not because it's "high-tech". Mold cost is lower than for resin, spin casting is cheaper, any and all bad parts and sprue get melted again. I can see why it's so enticing for producers, but let's be honest...it's generally crap compared to well-cast resin.

Photoetch doesn't necessarily make a "high-tech" kit. It's often as dimensionally inaccurate (too thin) as plastic (too thick). It works well for some stuff, but too often it's also one of those tail-wagging-the-dog solutions to sell more "bling" to model builders who are fascinated with it. Much of it I find far too fiddly to deal with, taking all the joy out of building. I love seeing others use it, but I'll let them deal with it.

To be perfectly honest, I like how Tamiya/Fujimi are doing kits w/just a small amount of valid P/E details, chrome transfer emblems. Some of those Gunze "Hi Tech" kits were a nightmare, and some didn't have engines. If they were so great, why are they gone?

Gunze's choice of subject matter and the kits high prices kept them from being any sort of sales success's.
The later 'low tech' versions were both much better kits and sold better.
I've got a TR-3 kit that seems to come out of the stash from time to time just for a peek. It's got a PE freekin frame! It makes me say bad words just looking at it!

And is the number of parts is your definition of detailing?

No, parts count doesn't impress me. Tamiya has often done as well (or better) then Fujimi Enthu kits with half the number of parts- and better fit.

Well detailed to me is a good, well proportioned representation of all the major and most minor components of the car. Just at random, look at Tamiya's M635csi or Skyline 2000 GT-R (there are countless others- these are just near the top of my stash). Everything is there- engine, full intake, full exhaust, full suspension, ignition system, master brake cyl, etc, etc. It's all in there, it's all beautiful, and it all fits. The only thing missing is a lower radiator hose. (Don't know why Tamiya hates lower radiator hoses. :dunno:) And photoetch wouldn't really improve them. :grinno:

PE greatly improves the dimensional accuracy of parts far byond what plastic parts can reach.Hardly. The thing that strikes me about PE on 1/24 cars is just how little flat, shiney 4mm thick metal there is on 1/1 cars. On my own 1/1, the only thing that fits that description is the seat belt hardware. Even if you paint it, there's often not much that is best represented with thin flat metal. Often, it's a poor way to represent the parts that it is used to replicate. And photoetch very often utterly fails to look like anything other than photoetched metal.

If you enjoy playing with it, fine. Modeling is about enjoyment. But I would always rather see a 3D part that would be well done in plastic done well in plastic, instead of 2D etched metal.

No, parts count doesn't impress me. Tamiya has often done as well (or better) then Fujimi Enthu kits with half the number of parts- and better fit. Just at random, look at Tamiya's M635csi It's all in there, it's all beautiful, and it all fits.

I got a Testors BMW M635 which was a reboxed Fujimi Enthusiast kit for $5. I looked at all the parts, all the trees, and compared it with my unbuilt Tamiya kit of the same subject.

I gave that stupid Fujimi kit away, it was totally overcomplicated, parts quality isn't great on many of the smaller parts (sink marks, big parting lines, sprue attachments bigger than the parts, yada yada), many of the larger parts suffer some measure of warp. Wheel/tire combo just didn't look right. The Tamiya kit seems to have 99% of the detail w/50% fewer parts of higher quality. I'd happily build 10 of the Tamiya kits vs. one of the Fujimi kits. All that extra "detail" just isn't worth it to me.

The KISS methodology FTW :sunglasse

The sad thing, Khier, is that I have on my shelf a Gunze Sangyo Jaguar XKE roadster and I can tell you without batting an eyelash that it is INFERIOR to the much older Revell XKE roadster that was tooled in the 60's.

How you might ask? Why, the Gunze has all that great photoetch and white metal!

Unfortunately, it also has a pig ugly and wholly inaccurate representation of the Jaguar multi-link suspension. Revell's included all four coilovers and great representations of the inboard rear brakes. Especially noteworthy because Revell would revisit the Jag rear-end on their Lil' John Buttera series of '26 T Sedan Deliveries.

How about the 250GTO? Yes, its photoetch wire wheels remain an unheard of accessory amongst 1/24th scale plastic kits in a regular line.

Unfortunately, they're also incorrectly sized (I've got a pair of calipers, bub, and I'll tell you right now they're undersized by at least a scale inch) AND they're surrounded by some truly pathetic "Dunlops". That white metal block? Replicas and Miniatures Co. of Maryland CREATED their amazing resin Ferrari V12's to CORRECT the Gunze Sangyo's worthless lump. You're better off transplanting Italeri or Fujimi guts into the engine compartment.

Hell, I think it's a little worth mentioning that a main line Revell 426 Hemi out of any of the '67 Chrysler B body kits (Coronet, GTX, Charger) actually has scale appropriate casting numbers AND casting texture on the block, whereas the Gunze V12 is as smooth as if it were made from printer paper (no offense to cardstock builders).

Khier, detail and technology are NOT just multimedia kits. There's a little thing called "Scale Fidelity" that you need to consider as well. The Gunze Sangyo photoetch is awesome, but the basic kits are NOT any better than the majority of modern mainline kits, let alone the top line kits from upper tier manufacturers.

No, Hasegawa may not always include engines, but when their body, chassis, and interior accuracy is that high, the engraving level is that good, and the scale fidelity is that correct, that equates to a highly detailed kit compared to a Gunze Sangyo 250GTO's clunky white metal chassis and featureless engine.

And, as a parting shot, I have an AMT/Ertl 1962 Ford Thunderbird Sports Roadster that has accurate separate fuel lines to the carburetors, heater hoses from the block to the firewall, air conditioning lines and brackets for all of the accessories on the engine's belt drive. I bought that kit for $15.95. Why am I told that the $50 Gunze Sangyo 250GTO is a superior kit when it doesn't even have a separate generator?

I've built two Ferrari 250's, the TR, and the Cobra Daytona. Love em. I have the Jag with engine, but have only completed the wire wheels which are beautiful. I also picked up three cycle kits which, with time and patience, promise to be gorgeous models.

If you enjoy playing with it, fine. Modeling is about enjoyment. But I would always rather see a 3D part that would be well done in plastic done well in plastic, instead of 2D etched metal.

2D PE parts can be used to make 3D constructions. Look at any PE vented brake rotor. 2D parts are used in model kits. Speaker covers and gauge faces are 2D parts. See-through grills, ornaments and emblems look far better in PE than the best plastic counterparts. Can you find a single decent three pointed Mercedes star or Cadillac ornament in plastic? Or why did Tamiya upgrade their old 1/12 F1 kits with PE parts? Because they look silly? A kit may have a plastic full suspension, brake discs,etc..etc... but all look MUCH better with fine, properly dimensioned metal parts free of molding lines in the middle of the springs. If some Gunze kits have silly body shell, like the Jaguar, others look really reasonable (better than Revell's narrow Ferraris). Besides, it is not about praising Gunze kits because their weak points cannot be denied, but they made good use of multi media in these kits, which can hardly be offered by a mass production manufacturer, who tend more and more to curbside.

Woah, guys, why is everyone ganging up on Khier? I think it's a valid question, whether you're a big fan of them or not. I'd really love their hi-tech version of the Bugeye Sprite but I've not found one I want to afford. There's no reason to get all defensive if someone has some other opinion than yours.

Also, didn't the kits include the white metal parts and also the a lot of the same parts in plastic? Sorry, I've never opened one. Can't you just use the parts you want, and not use the parts that you don't?

I love PE, though for only certain parts. I love to use them for badging - nothing can be better. I love to use them for brake discs. And mirror faces. Honestly, if Tamiya included the PE transfer emblems like they do already, with the mirror faces and whatever, and brake discs too, I'd never buy anything else again! At the same time, I think that it looks terrible for other things, like radiator faces. They are rarely etched with the texture as the real thing. Hood pins? No. A lot of work for windshield wipers? Yes. Metal? Not really. Stainless? Yes. Battery clamps? No. Mesh? Yes.

Photo etch is really great for the hobby, but not a panacea. We can all agree on that, I think.

So what happened to all those Gunze kits? :(

Whether you like them or not, those Hi-Tech kits are gone. The sad thing is not that they were better/worse/more detailed etc, but that they represented some subjects that are no longer available in the kit market. I'm surprised to read that one could pay $50 for a kit like the GTO - makes me think mine was a bargain!

However, when you consider what we're paying today for a basic plastic kit, even that has become expensive. Add on after market stuff like photoetch, paint and special decals and you're not far off the prices of those old kits. For that matter, you're not far off S27 or MFH prices! Yes, Tamiya/Fujimi parts fit is better and details are correct (mostly). However, I'm building the Senna F430 Challenge at the moment, and it doesn't even have an engine, which is shocking considering that this car has a visible engine bay - it's not as though you can choose to build it "curbside"! To get it right I have to scratchbuild a bunch of stuff. Mind you, it's a good learning experience - and downright character building at times!

I think that kit quality and detail-up accessories are important, but not as important as the modeler's ability to transform a piece of plastic into a little masterpiece. If you give any of the old (or mediocre modern) kits with all their bad fit and inaccuracies, to our esteemed fellow builders here on the forum (and you know who I'm talking about!) they'll turn it into something spectacular using their skills and experience. No amount of CF decal, photoetch, resin connectors etc can hide basic flaws like visible sink marks, bad paint and parts alignment.

Referring to character building, here's an example. The Tamiya sprays I used weren't to my liking and I decided to use Zero instead. I had to strip the Tamiya paint, and that weakened the plastic causing the grille surrounds to disintegrate! I had to make these etch frames to support and reinforce the plastic so I could rebuild using the saved fragments. This body has subsequently cracked (after clearcoating!) in 3 different places, requiring a fix and paint repair 3 times. Chararacter building, like I said. BTW I am making a build diary of this car, but I'll start posting closer to completion. It feels like every step forward is followed by two steps backward, and I wouldn't want to create an online soap opera with this!

Etch supports
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2365.jpg

And after restoration
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t57/grahamr_photo/HPIM2380.jpg

So what happened to all those Gunze kits? :(

They ran out of WM because MFH bought all of it on the Japanese market! :evillol:

So what happened to all those Gunze kits? :(
They are all in Gio's stash.... :naughty:

They are all in Gio's stash.... :naughty:

I think I remember that photo.

Finally a subject I know something about. I've been actively "collecting" Gunze hi-tech kits for about 10 years now. I've even built a few. Imagine. To say they are better or worse requires a lot of work and a lot of buying things no one knows anything about. I currently have 18 bike kits and 3 car kits and none are duplicates. I've owned and resold about 20 others over the years.

The Gunze cars are all over the map in terms of engineering and detail. The best car in the whole range is the Jaguar XKE. I've restored a real '64 E-Type to concourse condition and can tell you there is very little innacurate with this model. But having said that, I bought the plastic 'low tech" version and substituted the dash, bumpers and several other parts to complete the model. Several other "hi-tech" parts were inferior to the plastic version. Some of you may recall a Ferrari 250 SWB I did last winter on AF. I used the body and a few other parts and threw out almost everything else.

The bike kits are, in my opinion, much better than the cars. Every part seems to be nicely engraved and appropriate for the model. I think the Indian Sport Scout (the pics are somewhere on AF) is my favorite of the bikes followed closely by the BSA Gold Star. The Honda CB72 is a beautiful model though I haven't built that one yet.

Gunze kits are unique. They aren't the best. Far from it. But there are enough interesting subjects with enough accuracy to make several of them worth paying collector prices for. The photoetch is thick stainless steel, the (car) tires are awful, the interior parts can't be painted (rubber) and the fit is often atrocious. I love 'em!

Gunze's main business is women's underwear.