What If The Bible Supports Science...

I was reading through some of my grandpas old notes and sermons(he was a Rabbi) and he had an interesting theory...what if the Bible supports science.

The "7 day god created the world" thing could be the big bang and evolution.

What if it wasnt 7 days....it could be 7 trillion years. Maybe the "1st day" was the big bang, the 2nd day andother stage in cosmic life, the 3rd, a stage in evolution etc. etc.

It could work...

Originally posted by Dorikin
I was reading through some of my grandpas old notes and sermons(he was a Rabbi) and he had an interesting theory...what if the Bible supports science.

The "7 day god created the world" thing could be the big bang and evolution.

What if it wasnt 7 days....it could be 7 trillion years. Maybe the "1st day" was the big bang, the 2nd day andother stage in cosmic life, the 3rd, a stage in evolution etc. etc.

It could work...

The universe is between 13 and 14 billion years old....so 7 trillion would be pushing it. But anyway, I think that "7-day" theory is stretching it a bit. You could really extend a lot of the stories in the Bible to almost any event in current history....ie: Look how many times the stories in the Book of Revelations has been applied to current events both today in the present with the war with Iraq and in the past.....

13 trillion was an exageration....

I wasnt meaning to be exact, i thought it would be cool though...bridge the gap between relgion and science

i got tapes that support that the world and the universe cant be mroe than 8,000 years old, with a flood aobut 4,000 years ago.

there are thousands of scientific facts that support the bibal, in the 7 day, only 7 24 hour day plan, and the idea, that the world is only 8000 years old

One of the best is this: each year the moon is suppose to be hit with so much dust, that it creats a one inch layer of dust on it for every ten thousand years, scientists were scared that the space shutal would get barried in dust when it landed on the moon, for the fact that they believe the world is trillions of years old, the ship landed and every thing was ok, the man got out and made his walk, while every oen was cheering he called back and said the moon is solid, later when meassured, it was just under 3/4 inch thick

also, teh suns flame die down a certain amount every year, for our life and the past few thousand years this would have no impact, but if u go back billions of years the flames would have been so long that they would have been too close for any life on earth to survive

meteors die out after 10,000 years, so how are there any left?

Alos every single pre historic man even the ones in history books at school have been proven that they are fake, most of the time a man will see one bone, think it is a human bone, but it looked odd, so they say it is a prehistoric human bone, they make up a skeleton for it, put it in books, andd later they admit that it was just one bone they found and it is abnormal, later on usually proven, that it is jsut a pig tooth

Originally posted by supratuner
i got tapes that support that the world and the universe cant be mroe than 8,000 years old, with a flood aobut 4,000 years ago.

there are thousands of scientific facts that support the bibal, in the 7 day, only 7 24 hour day plan, and the idea, that the world is only 8000 years old

One of the best is this: each year the moon is suppose to be hit with so much dust, that it creats a one inch layer of dust on it for every ten thousand years, scientists were scared that the space shutal would get barried in dust when it landed on the moon, for the fact that they believe the world is trillions of years old, the ship landed and every thing was ok, the man got out and made his walk, while every oen was cheering he called back and said the moon is solid, later when meassured, it was just under 3/4 inch thick

also, teh suns flame die down a certain amount every year, for our life and the past few thousand years this would have no impact, but if u go back billions of years the flames would have been so long that they would have been too close for any life on earth to survive

meteors die out after 10,000 years, so how are there any left?

Alos every single pre historic man even the ones in history books at school have been proven that they are fake, most of the time a man will see one bone, think it is a human bone, but it looked odd, so they say it is a prehistoric human bone, they make up a skeleton for it, put it in books, andd later they admit that it was just one bone they found and it is abnormal, later on usually proven, that it is jsut a pig tooth
I don't know where you got your info, but it is all wrong. 8,000 years?????? We have carbon 14 dating that proves that there are artifacts and fossils over 30,000 years old. We have looked into space at newly forming stars, and can judge by that the universe's age is in the billions and not the thousands. Wait a sec, was this post serious or a joke????

im dead serious, the bibal says 7 days, it means 7 days.

IMO carbon dating is BS

Originally posted by supratuner
im dead serious, the bibal says 7 days, it means 7 days.

IMO carbon dating is BS

I not going to go into a big religious debate with you but can I ask where you got your info??

Originally posted by supratuner
im dead serious, the bibal says 7 days, it means 7 days.

IMO carbon dating is BS

What makes you an authority on carbon dating? Its the most reliable stuff we have sofar.

P.S Fundamentalsim is saying 7 days=7 days

Many rabbis/priests/imamas debate what the bible actually means. DO you actually take it for face value

Originally posted by supratuner
im dead serious, the bibal says 7 days, it means 7 days.

IMO carbon dating is BS

why should we trust the opinion of a guy who cannot even spell the name of the core document of the religion that he believes in?

Carbon dating is real,it's been proven,it can be demonstrated in a laboratory,and has been successfully used countless thousands of times.

Prove to me that you can create a planet and all of its complex and inter-dependent species of flora and fauna in seven days,and I might believe in the Bible.

As I said, I dont think it was seven days. Wasnt Noahs ark measured in cubits? Maybe 7 Days meant xxbillion years....

I think its open to interpertation'


Carbon Dating is real, the theory behind it is solid, and its held up through time

Guys (gurls?), give Supratuner a break...

Everyone's got their own theory of how old our planet is. 8000's just one of the numbers, and I'm certain I've heard this number from somewhere before myself.

He's not wrong about Carbon Dating either, there ARE problems with it. Some die-hard physicists say C-14 dating is actually accurate to within a few thousand years. Beyond that, the decay curve gets funky and its behavior becomes unpredictable.

For starters, check this out:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carbondating.html

Anyway, that's my .02

:D

Let's forget the C-14 debate (though C-14 is accurate for things less than 50,000 years old), and think about this 8,000 year thing logically. You can realize that the earth can't be this young just by looking out your window at night. All the light from a lot of those stars would never even make it to earth in 8,000 years. The light you are seeing is millions and sometimes even billions of years old!!! The rest of your info supratuner also seems to be inaccurate. I have never heard anywhere in my life that any of the prehistoric australopithecines (don't know if that's the right spelling) like Lucy were proven to pig's teeth or something......and they weren't just small bones that were found either. Large pieces of skeleton (about 40% of it) and even a large homonid-like skull have been found.... I don't know how can mix those up with pig's bones.... I don't mean to be offensive but please tell me that you don't seriously believe a lot of the stuff you posted. It would make me feel a lot better. Otherwise, I am deeply appalled by the education system near wherever you live.

PS- I'm sorry if I offended you religious beliefs, but a some point you have to draw a line between scientific truth and fundamentalist religious teachings.

Originally posted by supratuner
i got tapes that support that the world and the universe cant be mroe than 8,000 years old, with a flood aobut 4,000 years ago.

there are thousands of scientific facts that support the bibal, in the 7 day, only 7 24 hour day plan, and the idea, that the world is only 8000 years old

One of the best is this: each year the moon is suppose to be hit with so much dust, that it creats a one inch layer of dust on it for every ten thousand years, scientists were scared that the space shutal would get barried in dust when it landed on the moon, for the fact that they believe the world is trillions of years old, the ship landed and every thing was ok, the man got out and made his walk, while every oen was cheering he called back and said the moon is solid, later when meassured, it was just under 3/4 inch thick

also, teh suns flame die down a certain amount every year, for our life and the past few thousand years this would have no impact, but if u go back billions of years the flames would have been so long that they would have been too close for any life on earth to survive

meteors die out after 10,000 years, so how are there any left?

Alos every single pre historic man even the ones in history books at school have been proven that they are fake, most of the time a man will see one bone, think it is a human bone, but it looked odd, so they say it is a prehistoric human bone, they make up a skeleton for it, put it in books, andd later they admit that it was just one bone they found and it is abnormal, later on usually proven, that it is jsut a pig tooth

LOL, you sure you're being serious man?
I'd like to see your sources too.

Originally posted by supratuner
im dead serious, the bibal says 7 days, it means 7 days.

IMO carbon dating is BS It isn't BS, but when there was all the nuclear testing, we artificially increased the amount of radioactive carbon in the atmosphere, so we are forced to use the levels from the 50s... which isn't a big deal if you are measuring time in millions of years.

Originally posted by Dorikin
I was reading through some of my grandpas old notes and sermons(he was a Rabbi) and he had an interesting theory...what if the Bible supports science.

The "7 day god created the world" thing could be the big bang and evolution.

What if it wasnt 7 days....it could be 7 trillion years. Maybe the "1st day" was the big bang, the 2nd day andother stage in cosmic life, the 3rd, a stage in evolution etc. etc.

It could work...

That just sounds too far fetched for my taste. But you can believe whatever you like.

I have my doubts on science. There are still unexplained phenomena. How can we truly be expected to believe beyond a reasonable doubt that something created by man, a VERY fallible creature, can be 100% true 100% of the time???? It's nice that things do tend to work out so well so often, but if mathematics were perfect, why are there many ways to do something, and often resulting in the "wrong" answer depending upon method. Take into account "Please(Pretty) Excuse(Please) My Dear Aunt Sally" to help people remember the "order of operations". So much of math today would be different if an alternative order of operations was established. How can man say that math is absolute if it can not be solved for the same answer in alternate methods??? My rant on Math is that math is the fundamental building block of so much science that if math isn't an absolute, then science, and all other theories based upon this "variable" cannot possibly be absolute.

I actually kinda like Dorikin's idea. Heck, Lincoln said "4 score and 7 years ago" and unless you know what 4 score equals, the time could be misinterpreted. If God is the supreme being, existant before all time, who's to say what His definition of a day is??? Maybe his "day" is 5 billion years. Maybe 1000 years. When you think about how long man lives versus how long the world is said to exist (whether 8000 or 14 billion) we exist only a blink in comparison.

Originally posted by saturntangerine
It's nice that things do tend to work out so well so often, but if mathematics were perfect, why are there many ways to do something, and often resulting in the "wrong" answer depending upon method. Take into account "Please(Pretty) Excuse(Please) My Dear Aunt Sally" to help people remember the "order of operations". So much of math today would be different if an alternative order of operations was established. How can man say that math is absolute if it can not be solved for the same answer in alternate methods??? My rant on Math is that math is the fundamental building block of so much science that if math isn't an absolute, then science, and all other theories based upon this "variable" cannot possibly be absolute.


Can you elaborate on this some more?? Im not following your argument. Changing the order of operations would change mathematical answers but not the basic underlying principles of mathematics itself.

Since the sixteenth century, math has been the basic model used to describe and predict natural behavior. And it has been extremely successful since then. Why should we now begin to doubt its application?? I agree that there are other models besides mathematics, which could be used to describe natural phenomena, but that doesn't detract from math's success.

Originally posted by saturntangerine
How can man say that math is absolute if it can not be solved for the same answer in alternate methods???

Can you give some examples?? Im having trouble thinking of one off the top of my head.

Originally posted by ILike2DriveCars


That just sounds too far fetched for my taste. But you can believe whatever you like.

I didnt literally mean 7 trillion years...

All i meant was, what if 7 days didnt literally mean 7 days...then maybe evolution/stellar evolution/big bang was right

Originally posted by rsxer45


Can you give some examples?? Im having trouble thinking of one off the top of my head.

My whole point from that giant rant is that if Math was absolute, you would be able to solve math equations with no regard for PEMDAS and always result the same answer. It just happens to be that back in the 16th century someone decided that we'd all just follow this order of operations and we just blindly followed.

I mean, if someone had decided that Multiplication and Division were more important than anything else then maybe we'd do those operations first. I am finding more and more doubt in my major as I continue. Calculus is sooooo abstract, and how can you base something abstract on something that may not actually be absolute??? Even in Geometry, why doesn't the fact that 3 angles in a triangle adding up to 180 work on all surfaces??? It isn't true on a sphere or anything but a plane.

Umm, I'd have to disagree tangie... take this for example.

You have a 6-pack on your table: 2 rows, 3 cols, 6 cans total
Now you put one more can beside the 6-pack, which ups the count to 7 cans total.

In mathematical terms, that's 1 + 2 x 3
Following BEDMAS rules, that equates to 7

If BEDMAS rules weren't followed, that'll equate to 9.

If you were having a party and nobody knew about BEDMAS, then you'd have 2 very unhappy guests.

See, it's not like somebody 'invented' BEDMAS and decided everyone should follow it... it's more like a phenomenon that works for numbers.

Originally posted by saturntangerine
Even in Geometry, why doesn't the fact that 3 angles in a triangle adding up to 180 work on all surfaces??? It isn't true on a sphere or anything but a plane. But then it isn't a triangle. It no longer has straight edges. Besides, why you attempt to put a 2D image on a 3D surface, you won't get that 2D image anyway, because you aren't working in 2D.

And its PEMDAS, not bedmas.
>>> Parenthesis, Exponent, Multiplication, Division, Addition, Subtraction.

Originally posted by Dorikin
I was reading through some of my grandpas old notes and sermons(he was a Rabbi) and he had an interesting theory...what if the Bible supports science.

The "7 day god created the world" thing could be the big bang and evolution.

What if it wasnt 7 days....it could be 7 trillion years. Maybe the "1st day" was the big bang, the 2nd day andother stage in cosmic life, the 3rd, a stage in evolution etc. etc.

It could work...

Wow! Talk about pushing things to the limits. I can interpret that science supports the Bible. The Big Bang theory is how God created the universe....

Math...it's philosophy with numbers so anything is possible, just gotta find the field.

Originally posted by civic1784
But then it isn't a triangle. It no longer has straight edges. Besides, why you attempt to put a 2D image on a 3D surface, you won't get that 2D image anyway, because you aren't working in 2D.

And its PEMDAS, not bedmas.
>>> Parenthesis, Exponent, Multiplication, Division, Addition, Subtraction.

Actually, I learned bedmas too; where the [b] stands for Brackets. Same thing. :)

Originally posted by crab

In mathematical terms, that's 1 + 2 x 3
Following BEDMAS rules, that equates to 7

If BEDMAS rules weren't followed, that'll equate to 9.

See, it's not like somebody 'invented' BEDMAS and decided everyone should follow it... it's more like a phenomenon that works for numbers.

First, my apologies for taking this all WAY off track, but I am in an "end of term" crisis and I'm sick of my 3 maths.

But see, you did inadvertantly help my point. Yes, PEMDAS gives you the right answer, but why, if math is so absolute, is it that other orders don't yield the same solution? THAT is my point, not that PEMDAS does or doesn't work.

I myself also learned PEMDAS, so if you use the B in place of the P shouldn't it be BEMDAS and not BEDMAS? And Tangie, is my sig size, more equipped to your standards?:D

Originally posted by saturntangerine
First, my apologies for taking this all WAY off track, but I am in an "end of term" crisis and I'm sick of my 3 maths.

But see, you did inadvertantly help my point. Yes, PEMDAS gives you the right answer, but why, if math is so absolute, is it that other orders don't yield the same solution? THAT is my point, not that PEMDAS does or doesn't work.
When you hear that match it absolute - it is because it is complete and unconditional. You do what you do with it because of the rules it has. Math is governed by rules, and that is what gives it the absolute nature. The rules of math can not be infringed upon, and that is why it works.

Your problem is the you are confusing the different meanings of absolute. Math has structure, and that is why the answers are always what they are. 2+2 will always equal 4, but you can write it differently, such as (16)^(1/2). It looks totally different, but it means the same thing. That is why it is absolute - because the answers are always the same, and you have to abide by the rules. If you think of it as being without conditions or limitations, one thing is certain, you'll fail a lot of math exams. If you look at many of the philosophers, Pythagorus, Newton, etc, they all used math, because of its valid applications. If it works, why not use it? Math is simple, and I do not understand why you don't trust it. I'd hate to see you when you do your taxes:p

Originally posted by civic1784

If it works, why not use it? Math is simple, and I do not understand why you don't trust it. I'd hate to see you when you do your taxes:p

I'm a Math Ed major. I know my shyte. I graduate in probably a year and a half. I am good at math (barring the Calc 2 exam I took today) and I know where math comes from, and I know how math works. I guess I'm just getting frustrated...

Sorry for taking your thread OT, Dorikin. :o

Originally posted by civic1784

When you hear that match it absolute - it is because it is complete and unconditional. You do what you do with it because of the rules it has. Math is governed by rules, and that is what gives it the absolute nature. The rules of math can not be infringed upon, and that is why it works.

Your problem is the you are confusing the different meanings of absolute. Math has structure, and that is why the answers are always what they are. 2+2 will always equal 4, but you can write it differently, such as (16)^(1/2). It looks totally different, but it means the same thing. That is why it is absolute - because the answers are always the same, and you have to abide by the rules. If you think of it as being without conditions or limitations, one thing is certain, you'll fail a lot of math exams. If you look at many of the philosophers, Pythagorus, Newton, etc, they all used math, because of its valid applications. If it works, why not use it? Math is simple, and I do not understand why you don't trust it. I'd hate to see you when you do your taxes:p

Actually, in literary terms, 2+2 equals 22. You add it to the previous one. Here's a 2...you add the next 2 to it...22. Math, as many rules as it has, is still questionable since it has so mnay unanswered questions. 0=0...yes. 2=2, 3=3, and etc. are true. There can be no disypute amongst that. But when there are other factors, things can be interpreted into many ways. Not to mention that if you question mathamaticians in a debate, they'll hardly ever give you proof as to why something else and there's no other way around it. I've done it. So things in matha are just there and it's been like that forever so they don't why it's that way, but you must go along with it. Then sometimes they find something that changes. It's science where new things can be found to change everything. I mean, a google was created by some kid. A number in our system was just made up by a kid and now a rule pretty much. It's taught in class! So can anyone just make up there own theories for math and make anything? No. Why? Well, I'm still lookin' for the reason but no one seems to have it. I wonder why??? Oh right...because no one has it.

Originally posted by TexasF355F1
I myself also learned PEMDAS, so if you use the B in place of the P shouldn't it be BEMDAS and not BEDMAS? And Tangie, is my sig size, more equipped to your standards?:D

i learned Bedmas

Brackets Exponents Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction

Originally posted by saturntangerine

I'm a Math Ed major. I know my shyte. I graduate in probably a year and a half. I am good at math (barring the Calc 2 exam I took today) and I know where math comes from, and I know how math works. I guess I'm just getting frustrated...

Sorry for taking your thread OT, Dorikin. :o

:huh:
Wows, you don't get scrambled by all the numbers?! I hate seeing so many numbers; like in accounting;

All these symbols & notations...ack; confuses the heck outta me; then there's proof! AAHHHH I HATE IT!

Ironically, I want to major in Physics...hahaa

Originally posted by TexasF355F1
I myself also learned PEMDAS, so if you use the B in place of the P shouldn't it be BEMDAS and not BEDMAS? And Tangie, is my sig size, more equipped to your standards?:D

Geez..P (Parentheses) and B (Brackets) function essentially the same way in math, so it doesn't matter..

And M (Multiplication) and D (Division) are the same thing anyway (Multiplying is the same as dividing by the reciprocal, if I remember my terms correctly) so it doesn't matter who is first, D or M.

As for the 7 days = 7 million years, or whatever...
That's what my grandma believes, she is Mormon and since she was unable to deny the accuracy of science she decided that 7 "days" obviously equaled 7 million years, so everything would fit together neatly and her belief in the Mormon church wouldn't have to collapse and leave her faithless.

My dad has a Mormon friend who's a geologist and estimates the ages of different rocks up into the millions of years frequently. Yet he believes strongly that the earth is only 8,000 years old. He will tell you in the same sentence, if you ask him, that the earth is 8,000 years old and the rock he's holding is 15 million years old.....it's called compartmentalization. Each fact is kept in a different part of the brain, and those two parts are NEVER NEVER allowed to communicate with each other and compare information. If they were to do that, the subject would probably suffer a breakdown as they were forced to realize that either science or their religion was false, and either way, a LOT of people had lied to them.

Mormon?

Originally posted by NSX
Mormon?

The crazy Utah religion that wears special "holy" underwear? The religion that kicked out "Emmanuel" who went on to kidnap Elizabeth Smart because God told him to? The religion that's probably come knocking on your door 5+ times trying to convert you to the only "true" religion? Does that ring a bell?

Originally posted by boingo82


The crazy Utah religion that wears special "holy" underwear? The religion that kicked out "Emmanuel" who went on to kidnap Elizabeth Smart because God told him to? The religion that's probably come knocking on your door 5+ times trying to convert you to the only "true" religion? Does that ring a bell?

I was wondering the samething. Never heard or Mormons NSX? Greta people...to mess with when they come to your door. :D It's the guys that walk everywhere in a nice shirt and pants then are upgraded to bikes. Met some cool ones doin' some BMX tricks. Nice stuff.

I should add: fully 75% of Utah is this religion, as is a large part of Idaho.