A Case Study In Ebay Fraud

I watched this auction in disbelief as it slowly transpired. I hope everyone who buys on eBay will take the time to research it and learn more. What's particularly unsettling about this jerk is that he suddenly went rogue without warning. A little research by potential buyers should have sounded multiple alarms.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=130285148565

There were a few guys on a German board who bought some of these 5 kits.
As far as I know the kits never showed up in the post.
The worse part is that, if I correctly remember, at least one of them paid by bank transfer.

PS: What I find funny is that the French buyer didn't give negative feedback in these circumstances.

Another thing about eBay and PayPal.

eBay will never bother if you didn't use PayPal to pay for your shopping. And if you used PayPal they will only reimburse you the money they find on the seller account!
So if the seller took the money and closed his account, than PayPal will not give you back the money.

If this isn't a scam too, a legal one, I don't know what it is.

I wanted to give the transaction time to run it's course before I started this thread but before eBay takes the listing and the account down.

He had over 300 positive feedback's (100%) with an account four years old. He even had a recent feedback from a guy that had bought one of these Detail Sets from him. Everything looked good at first glance.

Then I began to notice inconsistencies:

The buy-it-now price was too reasonable and the add said he had FIVE of them. The item has been discontinued from SMS for some time now. (warning alarm #1).

He said in his listing that he was selling out his store and that this was the last of them etc but when I checked his feedback he had only sold 6 or 7 items in four years. All his transactions were as a buyer! (warning alarm #2).

The items he purchased were all small ticket stuff like $19 models too, not boxes full of $500 detail sets. (warning #3).

Then as I watched the auction he began changing the buy-it-now price erratically. First it was $450, then $390, then $375, then back up to $450. It was like he was trying to suck people in. (warning #4).

After the auction ended I checked his other listings and guess what? He had just listed the same auction with FIVE more detail kits! (warning #5).

I have to admit I wasn't 100% sure the transaction was bogus (I was about 90% though) and I really wanted a $375 detail kit. That's why I watched it so intently! But because I wasn't 100% I was reluctant to cry fowl during the auction. I sincerely hope Paypal will refund the victims' money and help acquaint this lowlife with his local police department.

I wanted to give the transaction time to run it's course before I started this thread but before eBay takes the listing and the account down.

He had over 300 positive feedback's (100%) with an account four years old. He even had a recent feedback from a guy that had bought one of these Detail Sets from him. Everything looked good at first glance.

Then I began to notice inconsistencies:

The buy-it-now price was reasonable and the add said he had FIVE of them (warning alarm #1).

He said in his listing that he was selling out his store and that this was the last of them etc but when I checked his feedback he had only sold 2 or 3 items in four years. All his transactions were as a buyer! (warning alarm #2).

The items he purchased were all small ticket stuff like $9 models too, not $500 detail sets. (warning #3).

Then as I watched the auction he began changing the buy-it-now price erratically. First it was $450, then $390, then $375, then back up to $450. It was like he was trying to suck people in. (warning #4).

After the auction ended I checked his other listings and guess what? He had just listed the same auction with FIVE more detail kits! (warning #5).

I have to admit I wasn't 100% sure the transaction was bogus (I was about 90% though) and I really wanted a $375 detail kit. That's why I watched it so intently! But because I wasn't 100% I was reluctant to cry fowl to other potential buyers during the auction. I sincerely hope Paypal will refund the victims' money and help acquaint this lowlife with his local police department.

PayPal will not refund the money if he closed down his banking accont after he got the money.
And PayPal will no go after him for some 2000 USD, no way, it would cost them to much money.

The buyers will have to try their hand with the Police.

Sadly these kind of things coupled with eBay and PayPal's indifference are turning eBay into a bad business for many serious sellers and buyers.

Sadly these kind of things coupled with eBay and PayPal's indifference are turning eBay into a bad business for many serious sellers and buyers.

Ebay´s own fault if you ask me. I think they are frauds themselves. As long as they get their fees, they won´t care about how many people get cheated.
In fact there is no buyer protection at all. It´s a complete joke! I had to learn that myself some time ago.

Since then, i only buy from people i can reach personally, if i have to "solve" any problems. :nutkick:

I had hoped we could discuss the fraudulent listing but Paypal policies seem to be fairly contentious in themselves.

I think much of this is the result of Paypal having VERY different policy depending upon which country the buyer and seller reside. Some areas are covered with unlimited buyer insurance on transactions and others can only get whatever the thief leaves in his account 65 days after the initial claim was filed. It's VERY important that buyers and sellers understand these differences BEFORE they hit the pay button. I have to think many of the people who bought those non-existent Detail Sets did so only because they saw a multicolored banner on the listing reading "QUALIFIES FOR PAYPAL BUYER PROTECTION", "Pay With Paypal And The Full Price Is Covered". It encouraged them to take more risk than if it hadn't been there.

I had hoped we could discuss the fraudulent listing but Paypal policies seem to be fairly contentious in themselves.

I think much of this is the result of Paypal having VERY different policy depending upon which country the buyer and seller reside. Some areas are covered with unlimited buyer insurance on transactions and others can only get whatever the thief leaves in his account 65 days after the initial claim was filed. It's VERY important that buyers and sellers understand these differences BEFORE they hit the pay button. I have to think many of the people who bought those non-existent Detail Sets did so only because they saw a multicolored banner on the listing reading "QUALIFIES FOR PAYPAL BUYER PROTECTION", "Pay With Paypal And The Full Price Is Covered". It encouraged them to take more risk than if it hadn't been there.

In fact around here (Europe) they say, in every auction where the seller accepts PayPal, that you get insurance up to 1000 Euros, which looks OK.
When I read the PayPal terms and policies they clearly state that you will be reimbursed up to 1000 Euros only if the seller has that amount of money on his account, else you get nothing.

This looks like scam to me and I'm thinking about sending a nice letter to those who can push eBay and PayPal to either change their claims or reimburse people no matter what.

Paypal buyer protection policy is a bad joke !!
Ebay and paypal are legal thieves only interested in taking their fees !!

Why ??
very simple...
first step:
I sold a kit, sent without tracking (the last time I did it !), and of course it "never arrived" to the buyer...
My paypal account was zéro credit on, no probelm paypal took the 76 euros I didn't have and put my account 76 euros under zéro without even waiting for a potential resolution of the dispute !!!
Of course I complain, prentend I'll close my account, saying it's not normal to take money not available and make someone duing the money (especially in such conditions etc etc)
answer: buyer protection, Paypal has to pay back so they have to take the money on my account (even if it's not there)
first conclusion: seller is always a criminal without no innoncence presumption right having to pay his due before judgemen t!!!
second step:
a few months after, I purchased a model, paid 89 euros and never received it... Seller didn't answer... neither PM email through Ebay, nor dispute form through Paypal...
Dispute is closed, paypal inform me I'll be paid back... But paid back only with what they can catch and find on seller account !!!!! so 78 euros or so...!?!? and why didn't they take the difference with even if there was only 78 ??
what about my account when it was 0 credit ??? no problem just apply self-service !!
but now for the difference they couldn't take in by force ???
let me laugh...
second conclusion: Paypal are liers and cheaters taking money here and there as it pleases them, without no consideration for they own rules and what they say to one and another !!!!!!

conclusion of these conclusions: professional system founded above lie and cheating make such profesional becoming thieves !!!

I never used Paypal anymore since there till a fews days ago, for a small payment of 25 euros.
And don't really intend to accept it again when (if) selling once more.

As said before, their rules are bad jokes they play with as they want to.

Unfortunately using PayPal is almost unavoidable these days. Never pay for PayPal purchases with your bank account, always use your credit card. That way if you run into any problems you can file a charge back with your CC company and let them deal with PayPal.

I always send packages with tracking. Only a few cents extra, but saves you a lot of potential headache. Also, never leave money inside your PayPal account.

OK, now that we've established that Paypal is the unavoidable root of all evil in the world it makes it even more important to spot fraudulent eBay listings before becoming entangled in them.

I used to build and collect Pocher kits and their prices really went through the roof around 2003. Common kits were going for $800 -1000 and the rare stuff as much as $3000! One day a guy in Germany with about 10 or 20 feedbacks shows up with 10 rare Pocher kit listings. The descriptions all claimed he was selling his uncles collection for him because the guy wasn't good with computers. I had a sense of dread from the start because all the photo's were stock promo shots of the box art widely available on the internet. There was no uncle or any rare Pocher kits. The thief disappeared with about $20,000 from those 10 listings. Emboldened by his success, he reappeared a few months later under a different name but the same MO. I informed eBay and they shut that one down before the auctions ended.

Listed below are some questions I ask myself when considering whether or not to bid on an item:

1) Is it an expensive item? For anything over about $250 I take a look at feedbacks and their other items listed for risk signs.

2) Does this person stand to have a lot of buyer money in his hands before he has to do anything? Even the dumbest of thieves like to be well rewarded for their efforts.

3) How solid is the account? In general, one with years of positive feedback is a safe bet that the person will continue to be trustworthy. But as in the case of the Detail Set thief, people can suddenly turn. The current state of the economy is not helping. That guy may have suddenly found he was unable to pay his rent or something.

Thieves will often build up several accounts exchanging fake transactions and feedback among them. There are even books out there on how to build up large numbers of feedbacks without spending much on fees. They usually involve selling very low value items.

4) Are the photo's solid? Thieves usually don't have the item but copy someone elses photo's. If you smell a thief politely ask the seller to take a snapshot of the item with his account name written on a piece of paper in the photo or ask to see a unique area of the item photo'd. If he makes an excuse why he can't, avoid that auction like the black plague!

5) Is it just too good to be true? Yep, your mom warned you about this. It is human nature to want to believe something is real even when faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Thieves exploit our greed. (A $650 Detail Set for $375! Awesome! I'll buy two and resell one!)

This stuff may sound a bit cynical but I've spotted a lot of these and so far have not been had. I do a lot of bottom-feeding and have gotten some smokin' hot bargains on eBay too. I hope this thread will help others avoid these lowlifes and create an army of eyeballs looking for it. If you suspect a listing is fraudulent report it to eBay immediately. Fraud alerts are high priority and they will investigate it and respond back to you.