Greetings & a Question

Hey all, :wave:

Hopping over the blue bowtie side (once agin) and have a 2000 Explorer, 4.0.

The truck itself was a steal so i coudn't let it go, 114K miles, all the fluids were clean and for being above teh rust bealt of America, in over all great shape for a 9 year old truck. It had just pulled on the lot from being picked up at auction and i was determined to snatch it away from the "reserved buyer" who wasn't returning the dealer's calls.

Loving it so far, have to get a center arm rest, remove the blemishes being rust on the running step, and a pin hole oil leak from the left valve cover I have to look at when the temperature gets better.

Now, here's the question.

When I got the truck, the SES light was on, I had the dealer scan it, it came back with the right bank being lean and a couple of EVAP codes. On the EVAP codes, I don't like how the gas cap sits and believe that may be the couplret there.

I chalked the lean condition to a sloppy o2 for and had the code cleared, the engine runs fine.

Last night as soon as hit just about 200 miles since having the code cleared (and ironically buying gas in th morning) the SES light is back on. I just moved and for now do not have my tools (long story summed up with one word - divorce :crying: ). My question since i'm a little Ford ignorant is, with the SES light on, is the PCM in default mode? The poiwer seems to be up more since it's on. Also, like with GM's and Dodge, is there a way to extract the codes and reset the light with out a scanner? I

I see my old friends from the Taurus section, Way2old and Shorod are in the house so I know myself and everyone here is in good hands. :biggrin:

With OBD-II typically the system will not go into "Limp Home" unless the SES light is flashing. That's the "drive straight to the dealer" flash.

I've never heard of a way to pull codes in a Ford from the PCM without a scan tool. I was familiar with the odometer method in Chrysler, not familiar with a way in GMs. You may have to teach me that one.... Most of the chain auto parts stores will read OBD-II generic codes at no charge. Certainly try to get the actually powertrain codes though, not just their interpretation of the code.

As for the lean codes, if it was a P0171 and/or P0174, try searching the forum for those. There are a lot of posts related to them and the DPFE. A loose fuel cap (or leaking cap) can cause a SES as well.

-Rod

Thanks Rod, so I'm not missing out any tricks then. I question the cap because it only goes like a eigth of a turn and just doesn't seem to feel right.

That's about all the further the cap on my 2000 Mountaineer V8 goes as well. I had a code once that indicated a potential cap issue so I ordered a new cap. The original part number has been superceeded. But, before I received and installed the new cap, I had reset the codes and for 2 weeks the code never returned. I did go ahead and install the new cap. The new cap feels just like the original cap.

-Rod

Hey wrightz28. Good to see ya again. As Rod stated, there are no provisions to pull codes on Ford's that are OBDII compliant without a scanner. On the gas cap, if it clicks when you turn it, it is seated. We have used silicone paste to lubricate the seal and have had some luck with that. Or Vaseline works well. Had to say that since you just got divorced.:evillol:

We have used silicone paste to lubricate the seal and have had some luck with that. Or Vaseline works well. Had to say that since you just got divorced.:evillol:

:spit:

No, I haven't reduced my self to standing at the check out lane with a pack of weiners and vaseline, don't think that will ever happen either. :lol:

It does not seem to click either so I'll take a look at it as I want to get a locking cap as well, cant believe a truck with all the bells and whisltes for toys does not have a locking filler door and my soon to be ex-FIL loves to mess with peoples cars, pretty juvenile. :disappoin

I chalked the lean condition to a sloppy o2 for and had the code cleared, the engine runs fine.
Likely a vacuum leak.

Likely a vacuum leak.

I would agree if the idle was higer than normal, however it idles smooth as silk @(600) in drive and around 1100 in park. I have seen this motor has a intake manifold issue so I will bear that in mind, however the engine bay is prestine minus the illusive valve cover leak on the left bank.

Otherwise, it does idle a little higher on start up during colder days until in loop, other than that just fine.

Also if I may ask, I've noticed a piston slap on colder days too, when initially started for the first few minutes. I assume as this is normal on GM's of the same era is this also common for Fords? My '92 Taurus (3.8) did the same on colder mornings but the motor was substantially older.

One onther thing I've come to notice, the A/C compressor is always cycling unless the heater control is turned in the off position? Yes I know it's supposed to be on when any defrost setting is on, but this is occuring when I select floor and main vent settings too?

Does you Explorer have the automatic climate controls or the manual ones?

-Rod

Manual.

No ideas Rod? :confused:

Short of getting out the wiring diagrams and checking to see if the climate control system is commanding the A/C compressor, I don't really have any ideas on the compressor turning on automatically. If you had the electronic controls I was going to suggest you put it in self-test mode. No such mode with the manual controls though. You have verified that the A/C clutch is engaging and it's not some relay you're hearing click, right?

The piston slap when cold, could that maybe be timing chain/tensioner noise? I seem to recall a TSB related to the timing chain on the 4.0L that could sound similar to piston slap. Way2Old may have some input on that.

-Rod

Hey thanks,

As my kids have learned to hate over time in their lives, my hearing far supersiedes the rest of my senses. :lol:

It is cycling. I stand outside and have my smoke while it warms up, something about every Ford I've owned, the interiors are too nice to smoke in :confused: Also, from time to time it seems the IAC gets sluggiish and the motor loads up a bit and starts to bog unitl the IAC catches up for a half second. Couple that a summer stint of A/C recharges for side cash, you know the sound of one when you hear it. :lol2:

I seem to recall some systems cycle so long as the heater control is on when the freon level is low, so once this weather returns to the artic tundra where it belongs I'll investigate this further.

As to the slap, I'm 90% the rearmost cylinder on the right bank, however, Buick 3.8 motors had a similar timing chain issue and that could very well be acustically bouncing in the engine bay and make it seem that way. :dunno:

Here is the TSB that Rod spoke of. We have had a knocking on cold start from Fords since 1984. We have not had any chain or tensioner failures because of it. Have you looked at the A/C relay to see if it may be hung on? Ford's have a really weak relay in them. Just a thought.



TSB 99-26-5 ENGINE - 4.0L SOHC - "KNOCKING" HEARD FROM LEFT HAND SIDE OF ENGINE AT START UP
NOISE - "KNOCKING" HEARD FROM LEFT HAND SIDE OF ENGINE AT START UP - VEHICLES WITH 4.0L SOHC

Publication Date: DECEMBER 14, 1999

FORD: 1997-2000 EXPLORER, MOUNTAINEER


ISSUE:
A "knocking" noise at start up for up to 2 minutes from the left hand front chain cassette area may occur on some vehicles. After engine shutdown, the tensioner oil supply gallery empties. The noise may be due to air entering the left hand tensioner when the engine is restarted.

ACTION:
Replace the left hand camshaft tensioner with a revised Tensioner Kit. Refer to the Instruction Sheet within the Tensioner Kit for service procedure details.

WARNING: THE XU2Z-6K254-AA TENSIONER KIT IS FOR INSTALLATION ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ENGINE ONLY. INSTALLATION OF THIS KIT ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE MAY RESULT IN ENGINE FAILURE. IF A TENSIONER IS NEEDED FOR THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ENGINE, USE KIT XU3Z-6K254-BA.



PART NUMBER PART NAME
XU2Z-6K254-AA Tensioner Kit - Left Side
XU3Z-6K254-BA Tensioner Kit - Right Side



OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
NONE

WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under The Provisions Of Bumper To Bumper Warranty Coverage

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
992605A Install Camshaft Tensioner Kit 1.6 Hrs.

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
6K254 42

OASIS CODES:
497000, 702100


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright © 1999 Ford Motor Company

Well thank you very much sir.

No, I honestly have not had any time, nor availabe weather to poke around much with anything on the truck since purchase, so I'm kind of being lazy and hoping there was a known cause for the A/C compressor. As said, not a major issue, just curiousity, but I will definatley look into it soon as I will have tons of 'extra' time on my hands for some time until life's little issues are resolved and miss being in the garage (will have to buy all new tools, but like I'm going to complain about that :lol2: )

As to the knock, that's interesting, I'll be more attentive to it tomorrow morning, however it seems to eminate from the right rear of the motor. I did notice this morning a slight exhaust flange squeak that just started as of today from that side so I'm starting to think the 2 are related as the collector may just be loose, and both went away at about the same time.

Well, happy to report all 3 codes present at purchase are now resolved:

Right bank lean indication, resolved by $2.99 injector cleaner

2 EVAP codes resolved by $21 locking gas cap this morning.

Ironically now that the check engine light off, the A/C cycling has stopped? :dunno: :screwy:

That's great, very inexpensive fix. Thank you for the follow-up detailing your success. Good information!

-Rod

Ehhh dang it, spoke too soon. Ran all day yesterday just fine, no pesky CEL. Then it came back on upon restart running some errands last night. :banghead: And, now that it's back on, the A/C is cycling again when not being called for, so somehow the 2 ARE intertwined.

Going to have to go get a new scan tool next paycheck to get a clear picture of wht the hebbie-gebbie is going on here.

Wow, that's an interesting correlation. When I get back home from travel I'll have to check the service manual to see if there are any possible ties between the two. I wonder if there's a chance a power steering pressure switch or Throttle Position Sensor (something that could cause the A/C to cut out) could be faulty and causing both issues.

-Rod

Yeah, let me know what you find if anything. Luckily the weather picked up into the 60's so I don't need the heater all that much, the load drag from the cycling is killing my mileage. :(

Any chance you'll be near an Autozone or similar this weekend to get the codes read? I just realized that you never reported any code numbers, so that limits the service manual research.

As for the manual A/C system circuit, the compressor clutch relay is controlled by the PCM. The PCM controls the relay coil ground, which has to also have continuity to ground through the cycling pressure switch which is in series with the cutoff pressure switch. The input to the PCM to request A/C compressor clutch lockup is from the function selector switch assembly, and the request is made whenever the selector is set to Normal A/C, Max A/C, Defrost, Defrost/Floor, or Panel/Floor (which surprises me). You don't happen to use the Panel/Floor selection when the compressor is cycling, do you? Looks like the only setting that don't request A/C are the Panel, Off, and Floor settings. I seem to remember you mentioning that the compressor still cycles even when set to Panel or Off.

I certainly don't see a correlation between the CEL and the compressor though, unless there is some sort of ground or backfeed issue between the transistor driving the relay coil and the transistor for the CEL internal to the PCM.

-Rod

Thanks again Rod. I almost always use the panel/floor setting, so that is strange indeed that the A/C would be called for in that mode. But i swear when when the CEL was off, it wasn't cycling :dunno: Maybe I'm just losing it who knows. :screwy:

Only codes i had when purchased were Right bank lean indication and 2 EVAP codes. Don't have the exact ones.

Ok, the prognosis (and it's getting worse 4 codes now).

First off is this dang DPFE ordeal (code reads as "BBDPFE sensor upstream hose off or plugged). Where is this? The hose I found broken off was coming off the air injection tubes to the intake, so I would assume the sensor that the two hoses plug to on the intake is DPFE? I replaced only the broken hose and left the other alone for now since I didn't have a replcement on stand by, guess I'll just get some more hose and pray for the best. Seeing the broken hose was corroded to near shut in spots I would imagine the other being near the same and triggering the code? :dunno:

Now for the big enchelada. Originally I had a right bank lean indication code, now I have a lean reading on both and "EVAP small leak/no flow condition" which a probable cause is a vacuum leak at engine. So apparently there is vacuum leak somewhere past the MAF sensor. I am letting the engine cool right now so that I can take a detailed look and the intake tubing and all other vacuum hoses for signs of breakage. I don't think it's the intake manifold at this juncture as she runs smooth and the idle speed is not excesive, but we'll see. If all else fails I'll just spend the couple of hours next weekend and replace the darn gasket anyway. Oh, and what's the deal with the cut-off dates for the motor? 2 different gasket sets came up depending on build date, just curious. Further more, could the DPFE hose problem cause this?

As for the EGR, I'm assuming this is the valve on the end of the left side air injection tube running to intake, just behind the throttle body?

Can ya post the exact code numbers? SOmetimes the description can be more than one code.

Can ya post the exact code numbers? SOmetimes the description can be more than one code.

Absolutely:

P1405 - DPFE sensor upstream hose off or plugged. (I did pull the other hose off the air tube yesterday and it is fine, no clogs.

P0442 - EVAP small leak/no flow condition (found a loose fitting vacuum hose on this issue)

P0171 - fuel trim bank 1 condition

P0174 - fuel trim bank 2 condition

I would be almost certain everything must be related to the sensor that the 2 emission hoses plug into, that I'm assuming is the DPFE as I only had the P0174 prior to finding the broken hose and replacing it which must have triggered the P0171. :dunno:

Would it be recommended to to get a factory replacement DPFE or are the aftermarkets suitable?

I think you're right that the DPFE is a good place to resume your troubleshooting. They've been a common issue on many Fords. Just be sure not to get the hoses reversed during the installation. I haven't really seen people complain about the aftermarket DPFE sensors, but Way2Old may have some suggestions there.

As for the P0442, I've seen that sporatically (twice over 1 year span, most recently about two weeks ago). Between the two instances I replaced the fuel cap, so that evidently didn't fix it. Both times were within a couple days of filling up with gasoline.

-Rod

As for the P0442, I've seen that sporatically (twice over 1 year span, most recently about two weeks ago). Between the two instances I replaced the fuel cap, so that evidently didn't fix it. Both times were within a couple days of filling up with gasoline.

-Rod

Yeah, I bought a new cap already and that did rememdy the other EVAP code I was getting but not this one. As said, after having it scanned yesterday morning I checked over all the vacuum hoses and did find the small line for the EVAP canister was loosely fit at the junction valve by the valve cover, so I patched that up for now and got a "better" fit on it.

I think I will just replace the DPFE sensor next weekend and go from there.

Edit, I should also note that during my inspection yesterday it appears that the intake manifold gasket had already been replaced as some of the wiring looms that attach to it were not put back on, so I'm really straying away from it being an issue.