Why the Camaro was Killed?

I'm not posting this in here to start a flame war with this question. I know the sales numbers for F-bodies haved been bad since the late 80's and that's why GM killed them. So I'm asking F-body people why the bad sales numbers?'

I've heard of dealers just about convince people to not buy the car but I'm not so sure that is true. When I was just looking around in a car lot at a red 2002 Trans Am one of the vultures as I call them was pretty anxious to sell me the car. Of course I had to explain to the guy 50 times that I was just looking at it and had no intentions of buying one.

One answer is as good as the next. It's tough to explain, because from my point of view, I'd always consider buying another Camaro, no questions asked. People seem more concerned with having a posh ride, not having asphalt-tearing ability at the flick of your foot. Also, I'm not sure that SUV's aren't to blame as well. The car industry is so diversified that GM didn't want to put anymore effort into what turned out to be a fledgling product at the end of it's run. It's sad, there's plenty of enthusiasts out there, just that most of us have our cars, and can't afford another on to keep the breed :(

Probably because of the interior ammentidies. Hard, cheap plastic, the cat sticking up on the driver's side, not much headroom, etc. It's sad really because imho, the Camaro had it's best engine ever in the ls1 right before they ended production.
I think what alot of buyers are forgetting nowadays is it's not the car that matters...it's the motor. The true heart of it. :cool:

Funny think about that cat bump, there weren't cats there in the last several years. It's a carry over from the original floor pans, cheaper to keep it the same than change it:(

Originally posted by BlkCamaroSS
Funny think about that cat bump, there weren't cats there in the last several years. It's a carry over from the original floor pans, cheaper to keep it the same than change it:( Man, you gotta be kidding me?! They moved it & still kept the stupid hump in there? It's almost as if they didn't care if it died or not!

Yup, the floor pan was a carry over from the Vette, I believe. At first, the cat was there, but it definately wasn't in the later years of the 4th Gen. I was surprised when I got under my car the first time and found out there wasn't one there, I was like WTF???

i also think they stopped it pecause they ran out of ideas for looks.:mad:

Yeah, I know the cats were on the early 4-gens. I used to have a 94' Z28 a long time ago & I checked(was curious what the hump was for)& sure enuff, there was a cat there.

I don't think it had anything to do with looks. That's what they pay their designers for. If they were that confounded on what the next generation should look like, I don't think they should have their jobs. It's easy to make a retro rod, it's all about the bottom dollar. GM wasn't getting enough of it...

Ah I forgot to mention. Your view perspective inside the car. That probably was the main reason the car died out.

Lets say you get a driver who doesn't really care about Ford vs Chevy thing, no bias, just wants a fast car, or a sporty V6 car. He gets inside the Mustang, not so bad, radio, a/c, traction control. He takes it for a test drive, its pretty easy to see out of, corning isn't so tough. So he likes the Mustang.

Then he tries out a Camaro Z28, V6, whatever. First off he swings open those giant doors. For one thing those doors once you put a little force into them, they want to keep swinging outward. If you're not careful with them you could easily ding a car next to you in a parking lot. Ok back to the main point, he gets in, amount of space is the same, interior looks the same just different placement of radio a/c vents and controls etc. Personally I believe that comment about hard cheap plastic is bullshit because you look at both Mustang and Camaro and they look no different as far as materials. As he pulls out on to the road with the Camaro he easily notices that the front end is so wide it isn't very easy to see clearly out of. Thus the driver doesn't feel very safe and is afraid he could damage his Camaro someday if he decided to buy it.

You don't have as good of a feel of where you are in a Camaro as you do in a Mustang, IF you haven't driven a Camaro before. I don't have that problem in the '88, but it did take some getting used to. That is my main point, and thats what I really think is what made people change their minds when choosing whether to buy a Camaro/Firebird or a Mustang.

If Camaro's went back to that short body that they used to have in the 60's, I bet sales would improve a lot more. A lot of people like certain aspects of it already, such as the placement of the shifter compared to the Mustang, but that hood just seems to scare people away.

True, it does take time to get used to. I just wish I could drive a Mustang to compare it, not possible for me...

Originally posted by DeViL
Personally I believe that comment about hard cheap plastic is bullshit because you look at both Mustang and Camaro and they look no different as far as materials.Oh, don't get me wrong, man...yes The Mustang's plastic sucks, too. I would know, I've driven several versions of both. I just think that if GM would have improved it to the point that it was better than the Mustang...well, that could've gave them an edge with the fickle public. It's almost as if in the end, GM didn't care at all about trying to gain back sells.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by DeViL
Ah I forgot to mention. Your view perspective inside the car. That probably was the main reason the car died out.

Lets say you get a driver who doesn't really care about Ford vs Chevy thing, no bias, just wants a fast car, or a sporty V6 car. He gets inside the Mustang, not so bad, radio, a/c, traction control. He takes it for a test drive, its pretty easy to see out of, corning isn't so tough. So he likes the Mustang.

Then he tries out a Camaro Z28, V6, whatever. First off he swings open those giant doors. For one thing those doors once you put a little force into them, they want to keep swinging outward. If you're not careful with them you could easily ding a car next to you in a parking lot. Ok back to the main point, he gets in, amount of space is the same, interior looks the same just different placement of radio a/c vents and controls etc. Personally I believe that comment about hard cheap plastic is bullshit because you look at both Mustang and Camaro and they look no different as far as materials. As he pulls out on to the road with the Camaro he easily notices that the front end is so wide it isn't very easy to see clearly out of. Thus the driver doesn't feel very safe and is afraid he could damage his Camaro someday if he decided to buy it.

You don't have as good of a feel of where you are in a Camaro as you do in a Mustang, IF you haven't driven a Camaro before. I don't have that problem in the '88, but it did take some getting used to. That is my main point, and thats what I really think is what made people change their minds when choosing whether to buy a Camaro/Firebird or a Mustang.

If Camaro's went back to that short body that they used to have in the 60's, I bet sales would improve a lot more. A lot of people like certain aspects of it already, such as the placement of the shifter compared to the Mustang, but that hood just seems to scare people away.

This is exactly what I feel it is also. I have no problem with either car but I'm 21 and young and don't care. But most of the people who have the money to drop on a brand new Camaro or Mustang are older. If you have 2 cars that are close in performance. But one the interior is more like sitting in a normal passenger car and the other you feel like you are the floor. What is going to appeal to the masses more?

Yeah it probably would of made a difference, which is what Ford seems to be trying right now with the Bullitt, Mach I, and 03 Cobra interior. Such as the retro-style guages, shift knob, pedals, leather styling, white guages, wtc.

i'm very dissapointed , eventhough my dreamcar is a 69 ss 396 (who's isnt :)) , i hoped that when I were a little older I'd have the money to purchase a brand new camaro. Looks like i'll have to stick with my ole 84 , sure she's not the fastest of the breed , but I've driven a few and they all have the same spirit . I actually love the broad hood in front of me . It makes me feel like im driving a humongous car that is nimble like something smaller like a porsche(altho it is kind of a big car i guess) . I just hope if or when gm resurrects the f-body , it is rear wheel drive , 2doors , and a big v8 !!!!! :)

Originally posted by BigJustinZ28
I just hope if or when gm resurrects the f-body , it is rear wheel drive , 2doors , and a big v8 !!!!! :) Well, most likely it'll be front-wheel drive, 4 doors,(like the RX8 where it's a small door on each side)& a "strong" OHV V6. :rolleyes: They'll just strech a Jbody chassis out & put a retro-edge Camaro body on it. Oh, & it'll come stock with altezzas just like those\/\/\/:D

They'd be foolish to only offer it with a V6, and put two more doors on it. No one would buy it, because there are so many other choices in the market for something like that. If it comes back, you can bet it'll have a top end model that'll compete...

Yeah, I was just foolin'. I don't think GM would ever be that cruel.:)

Originally posted by Misundaztood
Well, most likely it'll be front-wheel drive, 4 doors,(like the RX8 where it's a small door on each side)& a "strong" OHV V6. :rolleyes: They'll just strech a Jbody chassis out & put a retro-edge Camaro body on it. Oh, & it'll come stock with altezzas just like those\/\/\/:D
AHHHHHHHHHHH!:eek: if GM did that, that would scare the shit out of me! that would fuckin ruin it, trust me usually cars with 4 doors means non sport and piece of crap(except for bently), and cmon v6 what kind of racer is that! well i hope they arent going to have 4 doors, and they better have that corvette v8, and that mustang comparison vs camaro, the camaro is totally a better car, the engine sounds alot better, more vicious looking, and the inside is more comfortable. i know this because my neighbor has a 1996 mustang(that is green) and i like my camaro a whole shit load better!;)

I agree to that:D

I dunno I think the Bullitt and 01 Cobra sounded tougher then the F-bodies, they are really loud in stock form, that dual exhaust gives them quite an edge as far as noise level.

You should hear my LS1, and then judge again. I've got Mustangs in my apartment complex scrambling to buy better exhaust systems. The only way that I know this is because I was told this by a third party :D

IMO nothing sounds better than a sbc (cept maybe a bbc) , I went up to a import gathering in va (a couple other muscle cars , 99% import tho) and my lil 305 HO with nothing but a 80 dollar flowmaster was getting noticed all around the lot , when people heard it they looked hehe. Funny how I have about as much in my entire car as alot of those guys have in thier turbo tuning setups, but to each his own. as far as if chevy bring back the camaro in a fwd 4door format , you all check the obituaries because i will be the youngest person in the world to suffer a massive coronary lol.
one other thing , anyone know what happened to the little pic of my car ? it was in my sig yesterday and now its gone !!!
oh yeah , what is with the frog head :frog: ?
edit: wait its back lol

Originally posted by BlkCamaroSS
You should hear my LS1, and then judge again. I've got Mustangs in my apartment complex scrambling to buy better exhaust systems. The only way that I know this is because I was told this by a third party :D

What exhaust do you have on your LS1?

I met this dude in a black LS1 Z28 with another fellow in a black Z06 a few weeks ago at a nightime car rally (sadly, the only other F-Body besides mine among 200+ cars) and we left for a while to tear up some side streets. Buddy's LS1 sounded pretty cool and loud in the really high RPM's and especially when he got off the gas at those engine speeds and it started crackling. When we got back to the lot both boys couldn't stop saying how awesome my LT1 sounded - howling at 6000 RPM and even at idle (the "Hot Cam" makes it nice & lumpy). Thats when the other Z28 guy told me the LS1's just can't get that kind of sound and showed me how his catback didn't even have a muffler! I was like "what?" - got down under his car and couldn't believe what I saw - No muffler!!! I'd go deaf if I ever lost mine - I practically went deaf last summer for three weeks when my amp blew and had to get fixed!

Eh BigJustine, I've got a Flowmaster as well - 3" in/3" out that condense to 2 1/4 to accomodate my stock Z28 rectangular tailpipe tips - Edelbrock headers as well(not coated sadly, ugly and coroded now) - but man what a sound! Not to toot my horn but perhaps the most unique sound I've ever heard from a V8, let alone an LT1 - deep bass(but not too 5.0L Mustang/diesel schoolbus deep) and very rumbly(with just a hint of raspiness) under normal throttle, that completely changes to a scream under WOT.

Yea, this is what we're talking about.

First of all, the Camaro is NOT dead, NEVER was, and will return as early as 2004. One needs to look at the state/direction of the automotive industry and politics to understand why the Camaro was simply put on hiatus for a brief period.

The auto market is not what it was 10 faithfull years ago when the Fourth Generation F-Bodies debuted with seemingly neverending accolades: sophisticated & refined(for a musclecar), performance bargain of the decade(even at its introduction), 1950's small block technology for the 90's that shamed other exotics three times the price(remember those gutless NSX's?), and so on, and so on... The LT1 F-Body revived a slumping, stereotypical, olde school "Sports Car" market and image back in '93 and brought it too its peak. But the car industry and market was changing even as F-body sales continued to soar in '94 and '95. The revolution was in fact fading almost from the beginning.

1996 - ram air returns - could anyone have conjured up a better marketing ploy, I mean really? (SERIOUS kudos there - I remember being in grade 12 and drooling over ram air). And hey dad, Mark's dad just bought a really cool Explorer. 1997 explodes with the new C5 & LS1. History is made in '98 when the F-Body's inherit the most technologically advaned small block V8 ever created - GM is happy but quickly starts to sweat as sales slump and prices begin to skyrocket. What do you expect, the bloody salesmen are still using the same laimo pitch "ya its got the 'Cor-vette' engine in it" (many still refer to it as the "LT1" - what the fuck do they know). The industry is becoming more cut-throat than ever. A world wide consolidation occurs where companies get bought out or merge with others. No more build what you've been good at - now its compete with everyone else in every market! Bye the way son, what are they calling those things again, S-U-V's? Hmmmm, insurance WOULD be cheaper for you.

A minor(some say major) facelift from '98 on appears to mask the true situation and fool many into feeling all is well and rolling along like never before. Well sure, the factory is now practically rating the horespower of the SS & Firehawk just 10 HP under the Corvette!(well shit they had better for their price!) Truth is even by the turn of the millennium GM had already planned to end production of the Fourth Generation F-Bodies in order to rethink and rerelease a new era of musclecars for the twentyfirst century. They really had no choice if you look at it.

One thing we must realise is that things are planned and envisioned in the industry years before they happen. We can right now say well look at the popularity of the SUV's and other import cars out - they're cool, refined, have seen a HUGE aftermarket spring up overnight, even Hollywood is cashing in with shit like Fast 'n the Furious. Teens these days don't want daddy to buy a Camaro anymore, they want to load all their buddies in a DENALI to roll around and toke up in. Not in a heatbag CAMARO "guy" - but even now that particular stereotype of getting pulled over in a Camaro is so dead as the cops can barely keep up with the millions of little punks in their rice rods. This image is so cool now that guys in rusted, different coloured scrapyard door, piece of shit 1991 Integra's and CRX's are cruisin around with a bottle of NOS, but-ugly chrome rims, and Christmas lights all over/under their car.

So of course GM pulled the plug on the Fourth Generation Camaro, its been dying for years. GM has desperately wanted to get the plant out of Quebec for years now because of political uncertainty there and for economic reasons. This factor ALONE could very well have been the reason why a replacement model was not prepared for 2003 - let the thousands of St. Theresse plant workers think they're losing their jobs because its simply the end of an era. Be Proud! Then back a year or two later by overwhelming demand!!!..........

Should GM have kept the Fourth Generation F-Bodies going a bit longer? Again, if you're GM, look ahead - can you imagine what the new Supra or RX8(just to name a few) are going look, feel, perform like? Who they are going to appeal to?? Trust me, GM can and already knows. Its taken those companies several years to redesign them! So why shit on GM for taking a few years to hit the drawing board. Thats the thing about the industry. GM probably knew about the 350Z years ago just like Ford knew/knows that GM is planning to debute an all new Camaro in 2004 or '05. Go ask anyone within Ford how good they feel now that the F-Bodies are gone and they'll be the first to tell you GM will be back with the Camaro in less than a year - they're just regrouping. Mustang will eventually have to follow suit(totally new revolutionary design), but in the meantime they will continue - and rightfully so - to milk the last of the pony car heritage with such models as the new Mach 1(awsome job Blue Boys), the former Bullet, and I'll bet you a million dollars a "BOSS" model in '04!

Its really for the best in the long run. I'm convinced even if GM had put a fire sale on the the greatest musclecars they ever made and given all the incentives in the world most people now would not have cared to even notice. Musclecars?, they're dead "guy." (Me - I would have bought at least 2 more). Fear not. The Camaro is practically around the corner. Will it be radically different - yes. It will be built to compete with(and hopefully rout once again) the new generation of performance cars in every way - speed, image, sophistication - the trick will be to have maintained a bit of heritage. So take a year or two off to get it right. After all, this will be the Camaro for the next generation. And NO, it will not be a cheesy FWD, 3.0L turbo-intercooled little car like many of you speculate. Images will pop up and rumours will persist, but GM will unleash the new Camaro when they're good and ready. And it WILL be a Camaro, true to the name. Unfortunately I hear that Firebird and Trans-Am will continue to be disco, replaced by the new GTO. But they too will be back.

I will apologize now for all my cracks about punks 'n rice rods 'n shit - there are just as many young losers out there in F-Bodies (Hey, I'm only 25, I can be a punk sometimes too - but seldom get punked!). I have many friends who own very nice Accords, WRXs, Integra's - and even though I may not like other ones as much as mine, to each his & her own! I just get very passionate about this subject. Its hard to watch the IROC's you loved as a kid evolve into the undisputed King of the street - and to sadly see them fade away at the height of their might. We are a Cult right now, the last of a dying breed. We are still many strong, but not like before. Whatever the future brings, my Camaro will always be buffed and ready to rumble - the very same kind that first swept me away ten years ago. I sound like the fucker from The Road Warrior - "The Last of the V8 interceptors, EH?"

PEACE

Being how the Mustang is basically the Camaro's biggest competition, Ford came out with all new designs one right after the other. More people wanted something new and so they went for the Mustang, because it was the newest thing on the market. I also believe that GM will produce another Camaro, somewhere around a 05 model, cuz if you look at the market, Ford has already produced and shown off it's completely new design for the 05 Mustang. They know that GM is coming back, and coming back with a bang. Camaro's also had more power than the Mustang when stock, giving it a rougher appearance and ride, so more people bought the Mustang wanting a smoother car.

Originally posted by DVS LT1
Yea, this is what we're talking about.

First of all, the Camaro is NOT dead, NEVER was, and will return as early as 2004. One needs to look at the state/direction of the automotive industry and politics to understand why the Camaro was simply put on hiatus for a brief period.

The auto market is not what it was 10 faithfull years ago when the Fourth Generation F-Bodies debuted with seemingly neverending accolades: sophisticated & refined(for a musclecar), performance bargain of the decade(even at its introduction), 1950's small block technology for the 90's that shamed other exotics three times the price(remember those gutless NSX's?), and so on, and so on... The LT1 F-Body revived a slumping, stereotypical, olde school "Sports Car" market and image back in '93 and brought it too its peak. But the car industry and market was changing even as F-body sales continued to soar in '94 and '95. The revolution was in fact fading almost from the beginning.

1996 - ram air returns - could anyone have conjured up a better marketing ploy, I mean really? (SERIOUS kudos there - I remember being in grade 12 and drooling over ram air). And hey dad, Mark's dad just bought a really cool Explorer. 1997 explodes with the new C5 & LS1. History is made in '98 when the F-Body's inherit the most technologically advaned small block V8 ever created - GM is happy but quickly starts to sweat as sales slump and prices begin to skyrocket. What do you expect, the bloody salesmen are still using the same laimo pitch "ya its got the 'Cor-vette' engine in it" (many still refer to it as the "LT1" - what the fuck do they know). The industry is becoming more cut-throat than ever. A world wide consolidation occurs where companies get bought out or merge with others. No more build what you've been good at - now its compete with everyone else in every market! Bye the way son, what are they calling those things again, S-U-V's? Hmmmm, insurance WOULD be cheaper for you.

A minor(some say major) facelift from '98 on appears to mask the true situation and fool many into feeling all is well and rolling along like never before. Well sure, the factory is now practically rating the horespower of the SS & Firehawk just 10 HP under the Corvette!(well shit they had better for their price!) Truth is even by the turn of the millennium GM had already planned to end production of the Fourth Generation F-Bodies in order to rethink and rerelease a new era of musclecars for the twentyfirst century. They really had no choice if you look at it.

One thing we must realise is that things are planned and envisioned in the industry years before they happen. We can right now say well look at the popularity of the SUV's and other import cars out - they're cool, refined, have seen a HUGE aftermarket spring up overnight, even Hollywood is cashing in with shit like Fast 'n the Furious. Teens these days don't want daddy to buy a Camaro anymore, they want to load all their buddies in a DENALI to roll around and toke up in. Not in a heatbag CAMARO "guy" - but even now that particular stereotype of getting pulled over in a Camaro is so dead as the cops can barely keep up with the millions of little punks in their rice rods. This image is so cool now that guys in rusted, different coloured scrapyard door, piece of shit 1991 Integra's and CRX's are cruisin around with a bottle of NOS, but-ugly chrome rims, and Christmas lights all over/under their car.

So of course GM pulled the plug on the Fourth Generation Camaro, its been dying for years. GM has desperately wanted to get the plant out of Quebec for years now because of political uncertainty there and for economic reasons. This factor ALONE could very well have been the reason why a replacement model was not prepared for 2003 - let the thousands of St. Theresse plant workers think they're losing their jobs because its simply the end of an era. Be Proud! Then back a year or two later by overwhelming demand!!!..........

Should GM have kept the Fourth Generation F-Bodies going a bit longer? Again, if you're GM, look ahead - can you imagine what the new Supra or RX8(just to name a few) are going look, feel, perform like? Who they are going to appeal to?? Trust me, GM can and already knows. Its taken those companies several years to redesign them! So why shit on GM for taking a few years to hit the drawing board. Thats the thing about the industry. GM probably knew about the 350Z years ago just like Ford knew/knows that GM is planning to debute an all new Camaro in 2004 or '05. Go ask anyone within Ford how good they feel now that the F-Bodies are gone and they'll be the first to tell you GM will be back with the Camaro in less than a year - they're just regrouping. Mustang will eventually have to follow suit(totally new revolutionary design), but in the meantime they will continue - and rightfully so - to milk the last of the pony car heritage with such models as the new Mach 1(awsome job Blue Boys), the former Bullet, and I'll bet you a million dollars a "BOSS" model in '04!

Its really for the best in the long run. I'm convinced even if GM had put a fire sale on the the greatest musclecars they ever made and given all the incentives in the world most people now would not have cared to even notice. Musclecars?, they're dead "guy." (Me - I would have bought at least 2 more). Fear not. The Camaro is practically around the corner. Will it be radically different - yes. It will be built to compete with(and hopefully rout once again) the new generation of performance cars in every way - speed, image, sophistication - the trick will be to have maintained a bit of heritage. So take a year or two off to get it right. After all, this will be the Camaro for the next generation. And NO, it will not be a cheesy FWD, 3.0L turbo-intercooled little car like many of you speculate. Images will pop up and rumours will persist, but GM will unleash the new Camaro when they're good and ready. And it WILL be a Camaro, true to the name. Unfortunately I hear that Firebird and Trans-Am will continue to be disco, replaced by the new GTO. But they too will be back.

I will apologize now for all my cracks about punks 'n rice rods 'n shit - there are just as many young losers out there in F-Bodies (Hey, I'm only 25, I can be a punk sometimes too - but seldom get punked!). I have many friends who own very nice Accords, WRXs, Integra's - and even though I may not like other ones as much as mine, to each his & her own! I just get very passionate about this subject. Its hard to watch the IROC's you loved as a kid evolve into the undisputed King of the street - and to sadly see them fade away at the height of their might. We are a Cult right now, the last of a dying breed. We are still many strong, but not like before. Whatever the future brings, my Camaro will always be buffed and ready to rumble - the very same kind that first swept me away ten years ago. I sound like the fucker from The Road Warrior - "The Last of the V8 interceptors, EH?"

PEACE

*wipes tear from his eye* "bravo , bravo"

Gee, thanks for making me cry:frown:

The reason that the camaro went under is because ford sold more mustangs than GM sold camaros and firebirds combined.:iceslolan

well dealers said the sales where down.
which i think is bull.
but nobody really knows.

I admire anyone who can reserve reality in the hope that their dreams will come true.

The Camaro name may (probably will) return to a Chevrolet product. Do not expect it anytime soon, though. It definitely won't be on the American market in the 2004 model or calendar year. My bets are on it not returning before the 2006 model year...and probably much later than that.

By the way, sales of the F-body were awful and could not maintain an entire plant. Since there weren't any other vehicles that shared parts (beyond a few powertrain items), putting the F-body in another plant wouldn't have helped much. The plant was located in a region that was less than labor friendly for automotive production (it was not that way when the plant was opened).

When the idea of a FWD Mustang was floated in the late 1980s, Mustang fanatics stepped up and increased RWD Mustang sales dramatically. It's been YEARS since everyone knew that the Camaro and Firebird were coming to an end and yet sales didn't pick up. As many people as I've run across who've been miffed at GM for axing the brands, I haven't met many who've put their money where their mouths and hearts were.

Alas, the Camaro and Firebird are dead. Yes, dead...even if one of the names were to be revived, it would be another vehicle.

Originally posted by Hudson
I admire anyone who can reserve reality in the hope that their dreams will come true.

The Camaro name may (probably will) return to a Chevrolet product. Do not expect it anytime soon, though. It definitely won't be on the American market in the 2004 model or calendar year. My bets are on it not returning before the 2006 model year...and probably much later than that.

By the way, sales of the F-body were awful and could not maintain an entire plant. Since there weren't any other vehicles that shared parts (beyond a few powertrain items), putting the F-body in another plant wouldn't have helped much. The plant was located in a region that was less than labor friendly for automotive production (it was not that way when the plant was opened).

When the idea of a FWD Mustang was floated in the late 1980s, Mustang fanatics stepped up and increased RWD Mustang sales dramatically. It's been YEARS since everyone knew that the Camaro and Firebird were coming to an end and yet sales didn't pick up. As many people as I've run across who've been miffed at GM for axing the brands, I haven't met many who've put their money where their mouths and hearts were.

Alas, the Camaro and Firebird are dead. Yes, dead...even if one of the names were to be revived, it would be another vehicle.


man we didn't need to hear that. the f-body will come back just as the GTO did. But not too far away i've heard 2005 or 2006..

Originally posted by kidrcth
man we didn't need to hear that. the f-body will come back just as the GTO did. But not too far away i've heard 2005 or 2006..

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I would have heard something if the Camaro were that near.

maybe not because if you would read around they do plan to make one they just cant find a cheap RWD chassis. its just like the corvette before the 97 model, thye were almost gonna go until they found what they were lookin for.

Because the Camaro was cheaper then the corvette and they were not selling that mean corvette, because the Camaro was bigger selling more. so they stoped making the Camaro to sell more corvette. IS THAT REALLY HELPING THEM SELL corvette? NO, the retards could not face the facts that the Camaro was better then the corvette. the Camaro should still be around that was a bad choose for chevy. :thumbsdow

Originally posted by permant_camaro_fan
Because the Camaro was cheaper then the corvette and they were not selling that mean corvette, because the Camaro was bigger selling more. so they stoped making the Camaro to sell more corvette. IS THAT REALLY HELPING THEM SELL corvette? NO, the retards could not face the facts that the Camaro was better then the corvette. the Camaro should still be around that was a bad choose for chevy. :thumbsdow

Umm....no.

They stopped building the Camaro and Firebird because they weren't selling Camaros and Firebirds in volume large enough to dedicate a plant to them. The plant where they were built was one that GM wanted to close anyway because of its location. Moving production of the F-body cars to Bowling Green (where they build the Corvette) wouldn't have helped matters much since the F-body and the Y-body share so few parts and have decidely different methods of assembly. Additionally, the Bowling Green plant would have been too small for the Corvette and the F-body (not to mention the Cadillac XLR).

The F-body died because there was no money in building it. If people would have bought them, it might have turned out differently. The Mustang was going to be replaced by a front-drive, four- and six-cylinder sporty coupe, but the Mustang fans rallied and bought more of them. The Mustang was saved and its replacement became the Probe. When the demise of the F-body was announced, there was no significant increase in sales of them.

Originally posted by Hudson
The F-body died because there was no money in building it. If people would have bought them, it might have turned out differently. The Mustang was going to be replaced by a front-drive, four- and six-cylinder sporty coupe, but the Mustang fans rallied and bought more of them. The Mustang was saved and its replacement became the Probe. When the demise of the F-body was announced, there was no significant increase in sales of them.
True, not many people know that about the Mustang. Yes, ford thought about replacing the rear wheel drive Mustang with a front wheel drive Japanese designed car. One idea was to work with Mazda to create a similar platform that could be shared by both companies. The reason for this was Ford was concerned about getting caught in the middle of another fuel crisis, which made the consumer want economical cars, not muscle cars, at that time.

Once the public became aware of this, though many magazine articles,
the public quickly informed Ford that there was a demand for a rear wheel drive all American performance car. Ford quickly changed tack and gave their front wheel drive car the "Probe" badge. The probe was introduced in 89, and Mazda's version is know as the "MX6." Plus why would Ford want to be counterproductive and kill off a very successful, legendary product that was selling in high numbers.

It's too bad die hard Chevy owners couldn't rally like people they did for the Mustang. I had also heard a rumor that the Camaro couldn't meet the newest saftey standards, and that also played a part in why there were off'ed. It's sucks, cause I really liked the WS6!

That last statement is very true. The current platform was not gonna meet the standards of 2004 or 2005, and no time had been put into a new one yet. So many causes, one sad outcome...

I think it's a shame that the Camaro was killed. I've been a Camaro fan since I was old enough to know the difference between one car and another (about age 6, my dad's a mechanic, I've got octane in my blood). For 14 years, I've wanted a Camaro. I -still- want a Camaro, and fully intend to own one. My dream car is a Hugger Orange '69 Z28 with a DZ 302 and a Muncie 4-speed, but that's something I'll probably never get, so I'm shooting for a Purple Haze '92 Z28 25th Anniversary Heritage car. (My best friend's got a Purple Haze RS that he's gonna restore into a Heritage car, that's where that particular inspiration came from.)

I'm a GM girl, heart and soul, and I adore the Camaros. Not only are they beautiful cars, but they've got soul. They'll stroke just about anything (Although that '92 RS has some issues outrunning my Grand Prix GTP :tongue:). If GM brings it back, it better be RWD, and it better have something righteous under the hood. And they better not stick two extra doors on it.

I'm a patient guy, but just thinking about the fact that GM wasn't going to sell T/A's and Camaros anymore brought a tear to my eye. But i'm willing to wait it out and hope for the best, i'm not going to get into an argument about when i think they're releasing them because unless you are part of the production or marketing team for GM you dont know. All we can do is wait and listen. I would cry some more if GM slapped two more doors on it and put a V6 under the hood.....:frown:

Originally posted by HiFlow5 0
...I had also heard a rumor that the Camaro couldn't meet the newest saftey standards, and that also played a part in why there were off'ed....

If that was true (and I don't know of a specific regulation that would cause this), it could have been overcome if the sales were higher. Had sales risen to, say, 100,000 units, perhaps an argument could have been made for investing the money and time. I'm not a fan of the last generation Camaro/Firebird, but competition is always good for the breed. And from a historical perspective, it's sad to see them go. But it would be a worse situation if GM comprimised its business case over EVERY historically significant case.

Well, word around the Chevy dealership my dad worked for is that the Camaro has been put on hiatus for 2-4 years, and when it comes back, it will be retro, like the '05 Mustang. That's what I heard today, at any rate.

Don't buy into that "Ford buyers rallied" crap. The fact is that GM didn't build a car for "middle of the road" America. The Camaro was always built as a performance car first and foremost and with that narrow focus, comes a narrower audience. Ford did a better job of building a car with broader appeal. Look around on the street someday, almost every Camaro you see is either a Z28 or an SS. Almost every Firebird is a TransAm or WS6. GM sold more Z28/SS/WS6's than Ford sold GT/Cobra/Cobra-R/Bullit models (production numbers back this up). Where Ford made the difference was in selling V6 models to women. I see all kinds of non performance Mustangs running around, lots of convertibles and V6 coupes driven by Grannys and such. The Ford Mustang with it's higher passenger seating, easier site lines, smaller doors, etc, etc, appeals to a broader audience. Granny aint squeezing into a Camaro.
Thats what killed the Camaro, it was too focused and nowadays unless a car sells 100,000 units, it's a failure and is scrapped. Don't buy into that Ford loyalty crap. What killed the Camaro/Firebird was a lack of total volume sales, which was caused by not enough buyers for the mild V6 models. GM didn't build a car for "the masses". :spit:

Originally posted by reddy2run
GM didn't build a car for "the masses". :spit:

that's right, the masses want a reliable car.:lol:

This topic is about as popular as Import Vs Domestic. If the F-bodies were to return, it would probably be a good idea to make it a lot more similar to the new Mustangs and the old 60's F-bodies. A decent sized front end, not something extremely long, regular sized doors, easier to see out of. That would attract more people.

that's right, the masses want a reliable car.:lol:

how about a nice Volkwagen Beetle...Hitler's "People's Car". If you're going to knock the Camaro/Firebird platform for it's reliability, try having some stats to back it up douche bag. The F-body certainly proved itself as reliable as the Mustang. Camaros breaking down didn't kill the f-body, it was too much specialization and too small a target audience. GM sold just as many Z28/Transams as they did Corvettes, it's just that 50K units is acceptable to GM when it comes to the Vette, but not any other model. If the Camaro were milder and targeted a broader audience, it would still be in production.

ps. if you don't like f-bodies (which is obvious from your post) why do you peep around this website? Why don't you pull up your pants, turn off your computer and go do something more productive you dung pile. :loser:

how about a nice Volkwagen Beetle...Hitler's "People's Car". If you're going to knock the Camaro/Firebird platform for it's reliability, try having some stats to back it up douche bag. The F-body certainly proved itself as reliable as the Mustang. Camaros breaking down didn't kill the f-body, it was too much specialization and too small a target audience. GM sold just as many Z28/Transams as they did Corvettes, it's just that 50K units is acceptable to GM when it comes to the Vette, but not any other model. If the Camaro were milder and targeted a broader audience, it would still be in production.

ps. if you don't like f-bodies (which is obvious from your post) why do you peep around this website? Why don't you pull up your pants, turn off your computer and go do something more productive you dung pile. :loser:

you ARE the living end! :gay: of course I like the Camaro, hell I'd still own my Camaro if it where reliable, but it ain't. I got tired of working on it every other week. :lol:

you ARE the living end! :gay: of course I like the Camaro, hell I'd still own my Camaro if it where reliable, but it ain't. I got tired of working on it every other week. :lol:


okay....so you don't actually OWN a Camaro...but you post msgs on a Camaro related automotive board... And I'M the one who's :gay: Let me guess, you also post messages on a NAMBLA board, but you're not actually a member anymore.

:dupe:

Unreliable? hmmm....that's odd since at the Buick, pontiac, gmc service shop my dad runs the only time i see camaros or trans ams is when they're getting an oil change. I can check some RO's on tickets and see how much has actually been repaired on them but i don't think i'll find anything that can prove they are unreliable cars. You probably didn't take care of it, that's the only reason i can think for why it was such an "unreliable car." That's just my :2cents:

but you post msgs on a Camaro related automotive board... And I'M the one who's
Everyone is welcome on any forum regardless what they own and don't own. I post on Ford and Honda forums occasionally even though I don't own a car from either brand.

Thats true though Z28Josh you won't find many Camaros and Firebirds in shops getting worked on. Even though considered by the masses as a cheap low quality car I've seen less F-bodies in the shops then AMG Mercedes products.