1965 tempest (gto clone)

Hi i have a question about my 65 tempest" i have a 326 motor with a 2 barrel carb,and 2 speed powerglide "and right now its an everyday driver" im only getting 10 miles to the gallon "20gallon tank?18? (driving conservitavly)??.. the only thing i can think of doing is changing the trans out for a bigger one" is there anything else i can do? i know i shouldnt be worrying about the gas miallege in this type of car :smile: ,but i can watch the gas guage go down ,so any tips/info would be great

A BOP pattern TH350 will "bolt right in" where the Super Turbine 300 (it's not a PowerGlide, PG is a Chevy trans) was. If a floor shifter, "Shift Works" has the conversion kit to make it appear and act correctly. Length of the "short" TH350 and output shaft spline are the same.

TH400 is a bit tougher, but if you stick with an engine under 500 lbs. of torque, TH350 will live fine. TH400 is larger and longer, requiring more modifications to install.

Get a Comp 255DEH ("Dual energy") cam, Edelbrock Performer intake and a well built Q-Jet (730 CFM will suffice) and your fuel economy should come close to doubling. That cam is for torque and economy, not "high-end" power. Use a stock converter with the TH350 and you'll be amazed at how much better the car not only runs, but DRIVES! A little "right foot control" is all that's needed with the 4-bbl. to get good fuel economy.

Jim

i forgot to metion that the guy i bought it from had already installed a mild cam "deep sound" would that make a difference in the mileage? and with the four barrel carb/intake my mialage would actually go up? and if i did go with the 400(turbo trans) what would i have to change" driveshaft length?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "deep sound". A rowdy lope? If so, that cam is destroying low-end power and mileage along with it. A "cool" sound is counterproductive when it comes to low-speed efficiency.

Yes. With a bit of "right foot control", a 4-bbl. will more efficiently "mix" the air/fuel and provide higher mixture velocity, "filling" the cylinders more effectively at lower engine speeds. The better things are at low engine speeds, the more mileage and low-end torque.

TH400 (M-40 in "Pontiac-ese") is a tougher (MUCH!) transmission than TH350 (M-38), but... For your application, I feel TH350 would provide you more what you're looking for. It has less parasitic drag and a bit lower 1st gear. Both will contribute to low-speed efficiency. And yes, too, the driveshaft will need to be shortened to use TH400. Unles you plan a 600-plus HP engine in the near future, I would opt for the TH350.

Jim

well i was planning on putting in a bigger motor "in the future 400 or 455 im not sure witch? and i figured if i put the (400 trans) in now it would save me gas consumption and work later.. i found a 400 trans for 250$ as a rebuildable core? do you know anywhere i could call to get one already rebuilt? ""its a real pain in the butt trying to locate parts for this thing :smile: oh and if i put 3.73 gears in the rearend "ive heard this is a good rearend? would it help my mialage over the stock gears?

The TH400 would be prudent if you plan to go with a bigger engine later.
B&M and TCI are two "turn key" transmission manufacturers out there.
The 3.73 gearing is a bit steep for most streetable Pontiac's. I would suggest 3.55's for street use and, if you plan on some serious horse power in the future (450+), I would go with a stouter rear end setup.
My '69 GTO's original 350HP 400/TH400 combo was swapped for a 575+HP 461/TCI built TH400 and the original BOP 10 bolt rear end w/3.55's did not live for very long (I new this). Luckily I had a built 12 bolt ready to go when the 10 bolt gave up. The car still runs 3.55 gears.
I ran the car on the street (in primer) with this engine/trans/rear end combo for about a month before the car was tore down to bare metal (one year ago). With the mecanicals all done, by this spring, the body will be prestine also.
Parts are fairly easy to find. Here are a few of the places I use (mail order):
http://www.amesperf.com/
http://www.jbp-pontiac.com/
http://performanceyears.com/newsite/index.html
http://www.sdperformance.com/
http://www.tinindianperformance.com/
http://www.krepower.com/
http://www.spottsperformance.com/
http://www.nunzi-pontiac-expert.com/

This is just a few, but if you want a longer list, go to the following page and click on the links page.
http://www.pontiacpower.net/

Have fun!

"i couldnt find anything like these sites for parts "and everything i did find was overpriced ,,thanks

Overpriced? You may be right but it's not cheap to build a hot rod Pontiac (or BOP) compared to a Ford or Chevy or MOPAR.
Restoration parts between all makes are priced generally the same, but when it comes to high performance pieces, Ford/Chevy/MOPAR parts are much cheaper (also more plentiful).
I have built hot rods from just about all the major American car manufacturers and the BOP makes have always cost me almost double the amount compared to a Ford/Chevy/MOPAR.
I personally like building fast BOPs. They are different and they always surprise the big three guys.

Have fun!

when i say overpriced "i was looking on ebay and craiglist,everywhere else i looked didnt carry any of the parts that i was looking for, when i did find a part "like a 400 turbo trans" the guy wanted 1,200$ for a rebuildable core non working, and it goes on like that with all the other parts i was looking for, but i just got this summit racing parts book and its got just about everything im looking for, and the prices are fairly priced..

Carvin,

Beware the phone sales person... Check with real Pontiac builders before you buy a bunch of mis-matched stuff.

Pontiacs should not be lumped in with Buick and Olds. Unlike the Buick and Olds engines, the Pontiac readily responds to performance modifications. We hear this a lot, but 'taint so... The quickest Olds and Buick-powered cars in the world are knocking on the "7 second" door. With the introduction of the new aftermarket block, I believe T/A Performance may have theirs in the 7s now. Pontiacs are in the mid 6s and knocking on the 5 second door. It takes a dose of nitro (no, not "nitrous", NITRO) to get the Chevys ahead... There are a couple of IHRA TA/FC guys running Big Chief/Rodac combos into the 5.90s, but to my knowledge, those are the quickest Chevy-powered cars around ANYWHERE.

It's about the same amount of money to build a 600 HP street small block (tall order!) and a 600 HP street Pontiac (less "hoops" to jump through to get that level of power). Add 10% to build a 600 HP BBC. Under 700 HP, it's true, SBC is a little less expensive ("cheaper" is not really a good word when you're spending $10K) to build than Pontiac. 900 HP? Pontiac is now less expensive than EITHER BBC or SBC.

Those that have not been paying attention over the last 5-10 years haven't noticed all the "goodies" now out there for the Pontiac V8. There are a multitude of heads now. Two aftermarket iron blocks and one aluminum, forged crankshafts in several strokes. And more comin'! It's a great time to be a Pontiac guy (or gal!). And the Mopes? Notta chance... Well, 360s might be a little less expensive, but 440s? More! Hemis? Most!

'69,

Your list is incomplete... We're not supposed to put links here, you know... But... CVMS (Central Virginia Machine Service) is the "home" of the quickest Pontiac on the planet (today, anyway...subject to change when the snow in Ohio melts...). Originally called "The Drunken Injun", the car was renamed last week so the owner wouldn't "offend" anyone (ho-hum), it is now "The Dirty Bird". It makes right at 2,000 HP and pushes a 2,455 lb. car well over 200 MPH (1/4 mile).

Our initent is to "debut" the car at "Super Chevy" at VMP in April. If we can put down a 5.90s pass, it WILL be the quickest car there. They tolerate Pontiacs, Buicks and Olds' because they don't consider them "competition". We're hoping to change that, and be the REASON they "ban" non-Chevy powered cars...(:- One must remember, the last engine to give the Hemis any trouble at the top level weren't Chevy OR Ford. They were Pontiac! 1971, Arnie "The Farmer". Nitro-Funny Car winner. Yup, Hemi has dominated nitro classes for 38 years... Of course, today's "Hemi" is a shadow (bears SOME resemblance...) of the original "race" Hemi of 1964.

There's a tour of racers that run "Naturally Aspirated Throw Down", in the "RAM Series". Scott Rex's Pontiac is always among the top qualifiers and has won a couple of the events. He races against Hemi and Big Chief, in cars that are a tad heavier than a ProStock, and a little more engine "rules". It's only a matter of time before Tiger (best head out there for Pontiac) is refined to the point where we too, can get 1,400 HP from 500 CID (N/A, gasoline). We're at 1,250 now... When that happens, Pontiac will return to ProStock, where it hasn't been since the late '70s. That 25 year "gap" in developement is closing QUICKLY!

In case you haven't yet, get Jim Hand's "How to Build Max-performance Pontiac V8s", published by SA Designs. Far and away the most CURRENT study of the ol' Injun, but aimed strictly at "street". The big-cube Pontiac may well be the "easiest route" to a 600 HP pump-gas engine made from factory parts.

Jim

all my friends are telling me to put a chevy motor in my car" but what your saying is exactly what ive been telling them, my uncle said he put a 350 chevy motor in his 1966 lemans and he said it sounded great but didnt have any power, if i could i would buy a 400 crate motor, but im out of work right now so everything i want to do is at a stand still. , im trying to look for another car beacause my 65 is an everyday driver and its rediculous on gas consumption im getting anywhere from 8-10mpg (wich i probly shouldnt even be worrying about) but my dad had a 1969 lemans with a 400motor/trans and he said he was getting around 18mpg,and it had awsome power, he said he could beat corvettes,camaros,trans am,firebird, he said the only one that came close to beating him was a datsun 280z "as soon as i get some work im going to be all over fixing this beast up:iceslolan ..do you know where i could pick up a copy of that (Jim Hand's)? thanks

Carvin,

The book is available at B. Dalton's, PickWick, any other large book store, or Amazon, Performance Years, Ames...

There is no such thing as a "400 crate motor" that's both a Pontiac and a true "crate motor". Ken Keefer (Pontiac Dude, Brooksville, FL) sells a 505 "crater" (IA-II block, E-heads or the new CV-1 heads, roller, etc.). Not cheap. The Pontiac has been out of production for 30 years now. GM sold the tooling long ago. There will be no Pontiac "crate" engines. When we hear "Damn, I WANTED one...!" We tell them "We'll put it in a crate if it makes you feel better..." (:- Since the best engines "out there" are "custom", and craters are "cookie cutter" anyway, that gives the Pontiac "family" an edge. It's no problem to build a 500 HP 406 CID STREET (93 octane, mild cam) engine tthat will STOMP a 406SB Chevy in similar "tune". That's even more true when the weight of the car is over 3,500 lbs.

Jim

well great news "i found a guy thats selling a complete 1968 pontiac 400 motor "for 600$ probly needs a complete rebuild but its sounds good so far""..hopfully everything works out

That price is rather high unless it has GTO engine codes (YS, WT, WS). Then, it's more usable in the "restoration" crowd. If the heads are "16s" (on the center exhaust ports), it's a performance engine. Offer him $400... If it doesn't have performance heads on it, its worth $200. You can look at the heads and tell. If they have a "hex" at the base of the rocker stud, they are "screw-in" studs and that indicates a performance engine.

In either case, the block is a good one for use in your A-body.

Jim

where can i find a complete motor "besides craigslist or ebay thats in the hundreds range? 0-800$

When you say "complete motor", what exactly are you refering to? You can use your exisiting valley cover, timing cover, oil pan, mounts, brackets, etc. if you choose a 400 with either 2 or 5 mounting holes on each side ('67-'75).

In today's "world", all you need are a pair of head castings and a bare block. Virtually everything else is replaced during the build. The crank for a 400 may also be reused if not "stroking". Since we (CVMS) build so many strokers, we have a plethora of 400 cranks...(:-

The big issue is finding a shop you're comfortable with. Most professional engine builders are fully capable of building a "good" Pontiac. Attitude is important. If you hear "So why do you want to build a Pontiac? You can use a Chevy and make more power...", grab your parts and RUN AWAY!!! There really are pros out there that are narrow-minded enough to believe that. Most are willing to work with you no matter what you want to build. It's YOUR money, so you have the right to insist on getting what you want, as long as your willing to pay the price. Pontiac guys and gals are every bit as serious about their car's performance as Chevy, Ford and MOPAR guys and gals.

But is you're looking to buy a "used" engine to just stick in the car, that's a crap shoot at best. I recommend you get something tired and worn out, ready to rebuild. Starting "fresh" will give you a much better opportunity to build a good one.

Jim

well the guy sold that engine on the day i got my money "sucks" it came complete carb to the oil pan, ...another question ive heard oldsmobile is pretty much pontiac with the oldsmobile name
? if this is true can i put a 455 oldsmobile into my pontiac?.. or have i heard wrong................... http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2273/181/33/1361625697/n1361625697_261798_2453.jpg

i just got a 4bbl intake manifold from a 68 gto and long tube headers,with a quadrajet carb, "and im in the process of getting a 400 turbo trans, can anyone give me an estimate of the hp i should be putting out over stock? thanks

While an Olds engine can be "made to fit", it is not even similar to the Pontiac except the bellhousing flange. On its best day, an Olds 455 has trouble with a 400 Pontiac. My GTO raced MANY a 442, never once to lose to one. Most of the 442s were 455-powered. GTO was a 400 Pontiac. Highly advise against an Olds enngine in the Pontiac, but that's just me...

What cam are you installing and what is the CID?

Jim

its already got a mild cam in it right now with stock electronics "theres another guy thats selling two"pontiac 400 motors and 2 "400 trans 1970w/110,000mi and 1972w/130,000mi for (300$$):grinyes: for all of it "both motors complete!! 8hr drive one way tho" could anyone tell me of a good shipping company? thanks