Disaster :(

Started building this model almost 2 years ago and because it was a rebuilt that lacked some parts I didn't work on it since last spring.
I thought I'll try to finish it in order for the 2008 MOTY and pulled it of it's box only to see this disaster:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3492/3194109905_ddf27c89b0_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3346/3194109921_c5b297ed72_o.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3521/3194109925_de6bd567d1_o.jpg

The surface is smooth but thousands of very think cracks are visible under certain angles!

I used duplicolor automotive primer, followed by an automotive lacquer and than by Duplicolor Rallyelack Clear!

I'm afraid that the Alpine I started building a few months ago will have the same problems cause I used the smae technique and the same paints.

This one will get a lengthy IPA bath for sure! :(

Any idea what this is and why happened?

I have had this problem on a few occasions myself. I am pretty sure it's one of two things, the primer is not fully cured before the top coats are applied and over time (after the top coats are on) it cures properly and shrinks causing the top coats to crack. Or the lacquer shrinks and cracks.
I've tried many times to fix it by wet flatting and polishing the cracks away but they always return after a small length of time.I've also tried to bury the cracks by re-clearing with a few layers of 2K clear, same result the cracks come back again after a few days.I think the only way is to strip and re-paint, unfortunately, best of luck..:smile:

I also found this by using 'Google' May be of some help

Paint spraying problems questions and answers

Q: The paint finish has a crackling effect almost like it has paint stripper on it.
A: This is caused by the original paint finish not being compatible with the paint you have just applied, a very common problem when over coating Synthetic paints with Cellulose or some 2 pack products..

Q: The paint finish has cracks at random almost like an earthquake.
A: This is called Crazing, the most probable cause is too many paint applications, normally found on bonnets and roofs of cars. Crazing can also be caused by incompatible paint products or incorrect re coating times.

Hope this helps...?? :smile:

Thanks Steve.
It might be the primer problem you are describing, even though I did wait a couple of days before the first paint coat.

Well, it will certainly be stripped, the only problem is that the paint I used is already off and I loved that color.

Here's a picture of it approximately one year ago:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3324/3195133390_8eb0bcd727_o.jpg]

That's too bad, that Alpina Bimmer looks beautiful too. If you waited long enough for the primer to dry, the only thing I can think of might be the incompatibility between the base coat and clear. Sorry, I can't be of any help.

On the other hand, maybe you can repaint it in Mauritius Blue Metallic (the most beautiful color for E36, IMO) :D

It is from using incompatible components. Some portion of something disagrees with some portion of something else. There is no way to fix it. Even if it could be hidden with more clearcoat, it would reappear with more time. Unfortunately incompatibilities can take months or years to show. This is a very classic example.

Giving the primer more time to cure would not have helped.

Shame, it looks like it would have been a fun entry. But I'm pretty confident we'll try MOTY again next year also. ;)

And Avus Blau was the best color on the E36. :grinyes:

http://www.briansmodelcars.com/tutorials/tutorial/30

Thanks Alex!

It is from using incompatible components. Some portion of something disagrees with some portion of something else. There is no way to fix it. Even if it could be hidden with more clearcoat, it would reappear with more time. Unfortunately incompatibilities can take months or years to show. This is a very classic example.

That is a bit of a problem as all the primer I have is Duplicolor, all the base coats are Auto K (Peter Kwasny) lacquers and the clear coats are all Duplicolor.

I wish I knew which one is at fault.


Giving the primer more time to cure would not have helped.

Good to now, as I was planing to use the same primers in the future.


Shame, it looks like it would have been a fun entry. But I'm pretty confident we'll try MOTY again next year also. ;)

I was happy with it before this paint problem. Not sure if I'll manage to rebuild it in 1 years time.


And Avus Blau was the best color on the E36. :grinyes:

Almost 18 months ago Alex convinced me to go with the metallic yellow, and I think I'll do it yellow again if I find the right color. ;)
But Avus Blau looks excellent too.

Almost 18 months ago Alex convinced me to go with the metallic yellow, and I think I'll do it yellow again if I find the right color. ;)
But Avus Blau looks excellent too.

You can see if Steve (Hiroboy) will mix you some Phoenix Yellow (which looks very close to your yellow).

This one will get a lengthy IPA bath for sure! :frown:

It looks as though you have all the wisdom you need on the causes of this disaster I can't add anything to that..As for the lengthy IPA bath..Have you tried the product called Strip-A-Kit ?..It works GREAT I stripped a model that was painted for 4 years ,with Lacquer, in less than an Hour..Very easy to use brush it on set it in a plastic (or your choice) of container ,no lid needed, and let it do its thing..Use a old scrubbrush(toothbrush worked for me)put it under running water and the old paint washes off with very little effort..It works GREAT on chrome parts also as fast as you can brush it on and rinse it off they will be ready for Alclad,painting,etc..This product has NO affect on plastic at all..NONE..It will look as if you just pulled it from the box..You can find this product on e-bay under username...hangar3arlee...$8 a bottle plus a little shipping...It is enough to do 3 or 4 kits easy...Hope you try it..Take Care & God Bless!!!

yes, i remembered seeing this myself years ago...

i thought it was a case of primer & paint 'carriers' reacting with each other.
carrier means the base of the solvent. i can't remember which base type can't be used with another (lacquer, acrylic, enamel etc)

if one can put on a study on the properties of each carrier, this issue will be avoidable.

anyway, you can try to salvage the loved paint as much as you can but i don't think it will get any better because it's the base that's giving this problem & covering it over with a new paintwork may or may not solve the problem. moreover can you remembered what carrier based paint did you use durig that time?

look around to see if there's another ready mixed option on the color...

hope this helps.

i can't remember which base type can't be used with another (lacquer, acrylic, enamel etc)


Unfortunately, lacquers are often perfectly happy to react with other lacquers. Using incompatible reducer (with primer, paint, or clearcoat) will also do this. And of course if the reducer you use for the paint is incompatible with the clearcoat-well, you get the idea.

You can see if Steve (Hiroboy) will mix you some Phoenix Yellow (which looks very close to your yellow).
You are right, he will probably do it.
This, however, means it's time for me to buy an airbrush and a compressor.

This one will get a lengthy IPA bath for sure! :frown:

It looks as though you have all the wisdom you need on the causes of this disaster I can't add anything to that..As for the lengthy IPA bath..Have you tried the product called Strip-A-Kit ?..It works GREAT I stripped a model that was painted for 4 years ,with Lacquer, in less than an Hour..Very easy to use brush it on set it in a plastic (or your choice) of container ,no lid needed, and let it do its thing..Use a old scrubbrush(toothbrush worked for me)put it under running water and the old paint washes off with very little effort..It works GREAT on chrome parts also as fast as you can brush it on and rinse it off they will be ready for Alclad,painting,etc..This product has NO affect on plastic at all..NONE..It will look as if you just pulled it from the box..You can find this product on e-bay under username...hangar3arlee...$8 a bottle plus a little shipping...It is enough to do 3 or 4 kits easy...Hope you try it..Take Care & God Bless!!!

Thanks for the excellent info! I didn't knew about the existence of this product. :)

yes, i remembered seeing this myself years ago...

i thought it was a case of primer & paint 'carriers' reacting with each other.
carrier means the base of the solvent. i can't remember which base type can't be used with another (lacquer, acrylic, enamel etc)

if one can put on a study on the properties of each carrier, this issue will be avoidable.

anyway, you can try to salvage the loved paint as much as you can but i don't think it will get any better because it's the base that's giving this problem & covering it over with a new paintwork may or may not solve the problem. moreover can you remembered what carrier based paint did you use durig that time?

look around to see if there's another ready mixed option on the color...

hope this helps.

Thanks Marc.

There will be no tries to salvage this one. It will go straight into a bath of IPA, but first I'll have to mold the engine lid cause it was scratchbuilt (I bought the kit already built and with lots of missing parts: engine lid, mirrors, engine parts, exhaust system.), it was made using Revell Plasto putty and I'm not sure it will resist the isopropyl alcohol bath.

Unfortunately, lacquers are often perfectly happy to react with other lacquers. Using incompatible reducer (with primer, paint, or clearcoat) will also do this. And of course if the reducer you use for the paint is incompatible with the clearcoat-well, you get the idea.

Yeah, time for me to buy an airbrush set and get some Zero primer, paint and clear. This should keep me free of such troubles. :s

SAME FRIGGIN THING HAPPENED TO ME NOT LONG AGO WHILE I PAINTED HASEGAWA TOYOTA 2000GT with this gold chrome paint from RJ London from singapore i got for like only 3usd~

Is that Auto K lacquer a real cellulose lacquer? Real lacquer is contraband in California now and in lots of other places too. And it has the inherent disadvantage of being very "hot," that is, it reacts with everything.

It's almost certain that Duplicolor primers and clearcoats are synthetic lacquers, which are not compatible with the real thing.

There are plenty of great synthetic lacquer (Tamiya, MM Lacquer System) and urethane (Dupont, PPG, Zero, HOK) bases out there; maybe try one of those next time?

By the way, urethanes and synthetic lacquers are compatible with each other and with Duplicolor paints, and you can even use syn lacquer over enamel!

Science marches on.

Ddms

It's not specified. :(
All I know is that is a dedicated automotive lacquer, comes with the name and the code of the original car manufacturer color on it.

Try a process of elimination:

If you can polish the color coat, it isn't urethane and could be real lacquer or synthetic lacquer.
If you have to mix the color with a hardener, it's urethane.
If you can apply it to bare plastic or enamel without damage, it's probably synthetic lacquer. (I don't know whether you can apply urethane directly to plastic, but I don't think so.)
If you can buy it off the shelf in California, it's not lacquer. (I've heard that some people are actually smuggling lacquer in from Nevada! But legit paint dealers won't touch the stuff.)I checked on Peter Kwasny GmbH's Auto K Universal and "Effect" spray-can paint. Two things strongly suggest that it's some variation on nitrocellulose (real) lacquer. One, it can't be applied directly to plastic; Kwasny sells a plastic bonding agent that has to be applied first. And... the binding agent base isnitro combination resin.

Given that, I would NOT use the Auto K paints except with other Kwasny products, specifically his plastic bonding agent, primer and clear-coat.

With so many other good paints out there, why risk it?

Ddms

Try a process of elimination:
If you can polish the color coat, it isn't urethane and could be real lacquer or synthetic lacquer.
If you have to mix the color with a hardener, it's urethane.
If you can apply it to bare plastic or enamel without damage, it's probably synthetic lacquer. (I don't know whether you can apply urethane directly to plastic, but I don't think so.)
If you can buy it off the shelf in California, it's not lacquer. (I've heard that some people are actually smuggling lacquer in from Nevada! But legit paint dealers won't touch the stuff.)I checked on Peter Kwasny GmbH's Auto K Universal and "Effect" spray-can paint. Two things strongly suggest that it's some variation on nitrocellulose (real) lacquer. One, it can't be applied directly to plastic; Kwasny sells a plastic bonding agent that has to be applied first. And... the binding agent base isnitro combination resin.

Given that, I would NOT use the Auto K paints except with other Kwasny products, specifically his plastic bonding agent, primer and clear-coat.

With so many other good paints out there, why risk it?

Ddms

I think you are right, it's a real lacquer. I used it the very first time on the F2000 directly on the bare plastic and it seemed to etch the plastic a bit (I only used very light coats at the beginning, it also did polish out quite well.

Bought it in France, so I don't know if one can or can't find it on shelf in California.

I did use it cause I have around 20 of them paint cans with excellent color choices.
I might buy the other 2 products from them if I ever need one of these colors again.

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.