91 Lumina dead

Wife was driving down the highway and said the car began to stall on her all of the sudden. It started back up once and she got it a mile further then it stalled again and wouldnt start for her. I ended up having to walk down the road to get the car home. It started up fine for me and I got it home and it stalled just as I pulled in the drive. It didnt act up on me while I drove it home. It started up once for me and when I hit the gas pedal it died instantly and hasnt started since. The motor will turn over. I can hear the fuel pump running. The year of my car I had to buy an Actron code reader. Since the car will not start I only got a code 43 which was the right wheel speed sensor. I checked one more time later that day and now the code doesnt appear now. Will a speed sensor make the car act this way?

I went and replaced the fuel and air filter.I also had to replace my battery which I am only assuming died from me trying to crank it over. Yet I didnt think it was enough times to drain a battery in just one afternoon. Alternator was replced about a year ago. If the car will not even start am I missing any codes that I could be getting if it were running? Im not much of a mechanic but my situation is to the point I have to do the work myself and I am not sure where to start. Never had any real issues until now. Car only has 84000 miles on it and ran great. Thanks for your time and any help is greatly appreciated.

Hi David;

Where did you get your info that code 43 is a wheel sensor? According to this it may be a few things causing your problem.

http://mysite.verizon.net/strey/files/GMError.pdf

Alright that was apparently my mistake. The manual that came with the code reader is a bit confusing. There are like 2-3 different code meanings. The one I found that for code 43 says Electronic spark timing or the electronic spark control.
The car is a 3.1 Euro V6. The manual doesnt give much of a difference in what the heck your looking at.
Now according to the manual the EST says low voltage was detected. My battery got drained really fast when I was trying to start the car. It cranked but didnt start. I did notice one thing I forgot to add. When I switched the key on to get the readings I heard a fan like sound I never noticed before. No idea if that would even matter. It would make more sense to me if its electrical other then a fuel issue. When the car stalled on me in the driveway both times it didnt sputter or anything, It just straight up stopped. So by what Ive read in the repair manual I picked up as well is its the knock sensor I need to replace? Thank you very much for the reply.

The fan came on with both my '93 GA and my '94 Lumina when checking codes so I assume thats normal. Sorry, I can't help you much more with diagnosing your problem. I just don't know enough to be giving any advice other than go get a service manual. Those things pay for themselves fairly quick with an 18 year old car.:biggrin: Good luck!

Either ESC or PROM. The ESC is esier to test and/or replace than the PROM. Also cheaper. If the ESC tests OK,Check with Dealer for list of cars that use the same PROM, then check the used parts (Wrecking) yards to find oout if one is available.

Even though you hear the fuel pump run you probably need to replace it. Get a pressure guage and check the fuel pressure on the fuel rail. If you don't have around 30psi, change the fuel pump and you should be fine. Be sure and change the pump, screen, seal, and harness to be on the safe side.

Good luck!

Ok I had this same problem car was towed to a repair facility many times. I replaced the fuel pump,p about 4 times in this car knew it was good as I never let it get past the 1/4 mark on the guage what idiot thought the fuel would be a good idea to cool a fuel pump anyhow There is this nifty sensor on the 3.1 that is your oil pressure sensor. If you have an oil leak and your pressure is low the car will just stop running even if you are on the freeway doing 70 it will kill the engine. Nearly impossible to find unless you do some electrical troubleshooting. there is a relay on the fender well under the hood you have to bypass or tell it to stay open or it shuts off the car.

Welcome to AF David.

You've gotten some bad information thus far form different sources, so I want to clarify some things for you. Sorry for the long post, but i feel it's necessary for clarification.

For your vehicle: code 43- Knock sensor signal was either above 3.5 volts or below 1.5 volts for at least 0.5 seconds.

Just for clarification, the code for the ECT is 42, not 43 for your vehicle .

The 90-93 Vin-T and Vin-V 3.1 are known for developing lifter ticks and a little piston slap as they get older, and either of these can cause a code 43 (the ECM detects these as knock and trips this code). Tis being said, the code you have has little to nothing to do with your car not starting.

Common causes for your issue are a bad ICM, a bad ECM, low fuel pressure and a bad crank positon sensor.

The ICM (ignition control module, the part the 3 ignition coils mounts to) can be taken off and tested at the chain auto parts stores for free. Make sure they run the test a few times to get the ICM warm, as they can work when cool, and fail when they heat up.

The ECM's used in your particular car are a relatively high failure part due to being mounted under the hood and exposed to the elements. The ECM is located in the right front fender area under a plastic cover just ahead of the passenger side wheel well. Check the OEM service number on your's. If it's 1227727, it's highly probable that its the cause of your issue as that is a high failure OEM number due to water intrusion. If you lightly tap on it with the handle of a screwdriver while someone cranks the car and it suddenly starts (or if you get the car to start and tapping on it make the car stumble or stall), then the ECM is definitely bad.

Auto-Zone and Advance may offer a fuel pressure guage in their free tool loan program to test fuel pressre. Your car should have 41-45 Psi key on/engine off, and it should drop 3-7 psi with the car started. If you disconnect the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator while the car is running, the fuel pressure should spike back up to key on/engine off readings.

The crank position sensor is the hardest to test for a novice DIY. It's located in a nasty spot (just above the oil pan rail in the side of the block toward the firewall). It looks fairly simple to change (just one bolt secures it to the block) but the o-ring can harden and stick in the block, causing the sensor to break off inside the engine when you attempt to remove it.

No need to say your sorry for the long post. It was very informative and I appreciate the information. Thank you

Rich; I saved your post for the day my car won't start. Thanks for taking the time to help.:smile:

I just checked the ECM like you said. None of the parts stores can test it because of the age. So they say anyways. The ECM didnt have any cover on it and was laying in the bottom half of where the cover "Should" have been. It has been bouncing around unprotected for who knows how long. It was behind the coolant res and comepletely out of sight.

Im going to go ahead and replace it today. I have no way of testing it myself. Ill check to see when I take it to the parts store if they can test it with it sitting right in front of them anyways. Dont have many options available so Im winging it. Lack of tools and knowledge does put a damper on things. I wanted to thank everyone for thier input.

Just changed ECM and no change. Back to the drawing board. Code reader gives no reading short of the reader working properly now, :disappoin

Just changed ECM and no change. Back to the drawing board. Code reader gives no reading short of the reader working properly now, :disappoin

That sucks! I think what you should do is go back to the basics. Go get a fuel pressure gauge and a spark tester. Determine if it is a fuel problem or an electrical problem and go from there.

What truly sucks. I go out this morning in the cold and the car starts right up and runs for 30 seconds and dies again. No sputtering just dies again. ECM, fuel filter, air filter, pcv valve all replaced. Im poking around again. If it was the timing I wouldnt think it would have started as easy yet alone ran as smooth as it did for that short of time. After it shut off I put the code reader back on and I didnt get any codes this time. May not have stayed running long enough to get a new reading since the old codes were deleted. I have a guy comming over to help me check a few things. Ill relay any findings just for future reference for others if they ever come across this issue. He tested fuel pressure for me and said its good.

Replace ICM. I did it twice. First time my Lumina went died completelly, second just yesterday. Lumina was stalling randomly.

Andrew

Just for clarification, the ICM (the part under the ignition coils) is what can be tested at the box stores, not the ECM (the computer located in the wheel well).

When you replaced the ECM, did you buy a new/reman or salvage yard part? If you bought a salvage part, did you swap the PROM chip from your original unit to the salvage part? The reason I ask is because the same ECM can be used in many different vehicles, and the PROM is what is calibrated to your specific vehicles engine/trans/options. If you didn't swap the PROM, you may have one that's incompatible with your car.

ECM was a reman and yeah I switched the chip out. By the info I got off the old one it was a reman as well so I was hoping that was the problem. Considering the state in which I found it as well.

It's possible that your PROM has been damaged from the ECM not being secured down, or since the ECM appears to have been replaced before, it may not be the right one for your car.

Bad map sensor can cause the car to kill after the car runs a very short period of time and this can happen without
showing any codes.

I need to replace my crank position sensor on my 92 Eurosport 3.1 but on the posts i have read everyone says its a 8mm bolt that holds it on.When i feel around with my hand all i feel is a bolt that is about a 13mm.How far away is the bolt securing the crank sensor?Could it be a 13mm bolt?Please let me know so i can get this thing replaced.Thanks

Forget my las post.I got under there a little better with a light and now i see the 8mm bolt

I have a very very similiar problem with my 92 Lumina 3.1. Not too long ago my car started to have an intermittant miss while driving. Sometimes it was a harder miss than other times. The problem got progressively worse. Eventually it got to the point where the car would stall out when stopped at light but would always start back up. The problem at first seemed to occur after the engine got to operating temperature. I had a similiar problem in the past and had replaced the ignition control module so since it had a lifetime warranty I decided to replace it. Did not help. After doing some reading online, I decided to replace the crankshaft position sensor. During my test drive it seemed to work good until (several miles down the road) it started acting bad again and stalled out. This time my car would not restart and acted like it had either jumped timing or broke the timing chain. I had to have in towed to my house on memorial day weekend no less (extra charge)That night I decided to see if I could determine if I had a timing issue and the car started right up and ran fine like there was nothing wrong with it. I let is sit for a day or two and came home from work to start troubleshooting it. There were no codes in the ecm and the data stream looked good, saw nothing abnormal while the car was running. The next day I came home and this time the car would not start at all but when cranking the engine turns over good. I thought maybe is was coincidence that the engine was hot. I started to troubleshoot and found that I had no spark to the plugs. I checked to make sure I had a good power and ground to the ignition module, made sure the crank sensor wiring was transmitting its AC voltage to the ignition module. Removed one of the coils and checked for trigger voltage and found none. Removed the ecm and performed resistance check on all wires leading to control module. When I plugged the ecm back in the car started fine but after a few minutes would start to run rough and die. I even checked the one coil I removed to make sure it wasnt open. I replaced the ecm. With the new ecm my car still acts like its out of time again but I do have spark this time. I also notice that it smells like its overfueling too. I thought I bought a defective ecm so I exchanged it. Same problem. I am at a total loss at this point. I have checked or replaced everything I could think of that may be causing this problem. If anyone has any idea what is wrong please let me know. I have always been able to fix my own vehicle up to this point. The sad part is I am a diesel mechanic by trade. This problem is blowing my mind. I am gonna hook the scanner to it tonight again and see what I can see. So I have replaced ICM, Crank Pos Sen., ECM. I also checked to make sure the coils were not shorting and strong like the manual describes. I am starting to think that the PROM may have a problem. What are the chances of this happening? Where do I get another PROM? Thanks for any help out there. :banghead:

Chances of PROM unlikely. ESC more likely.

Is the ESC a seperate module?

Thought I would register and add my bit as I had spent a lot of time on the net looking for answers too.

Bought a 90 Lumina last week with 350,000 kilometres. Took a trip on the highway and found it was missing and had poor power. At the end of the trip I had stopped at a light and was just lugging away when suddenly all cylinders came back to life and the vehicle accelerated very rapidly- as it should have for the amount of pedal I had down. Then within 2 blocks it was again a vehicle with missing cylinders. OK, so now I knew it was not mechanical.

Got home and put the timing light on the plug wires. Soon found one with no spark at all. So I proceeded to pull wires and check them with the ohmmeter. All were good. Pulled all the plugs (just for fun-yah right!) and checked gap and condition. Took off middle coil as that was the one that was not producing. I have no idea whether the other cylinder was firing from that coil because I didn't even know that one coil controlled multiple cylinders. I thought I was running on only one dead cylinder - could have been two.

Swapped two coils thinking I could prove it was a bad coil rather than some other device. Nope- it never ran again. Backfiring, sputtering, popping but would not run. Now I am really confused.:banghead:

Next day I priced out an ICM as that seemed to be the most likely culprit now. OUCH$$. Went to another place and the guy said. Try the auto wreckers as he usually pays about $125.00 for a working coil pack complete. I got the whole pack for 75.00 CDN and it worked like a charm.

So I am thinking that it never was a coil problem because of the misfiring after I tinkered with the system. No proof and I am not going to worry about it. But for the money it sure was easier to get a guaranteed working coil pack.