no start no crank

Well first of all its a 1994 Pontiac Grand Am SE It has about 117k. I haven't gotten to look at the car lately since its been raining whenever I'm home but when I'm at work there isn't a cloud in the sky. :lol:

So far the only person who looked at the car is my girl friend and well lets just say she can do a tune-up perfectly but anything else and there are a few issues. The car had the normal MFS switch issue witch I was told was fixed by her brother but now I find out he didn't change the switch he wired the taillights and dash lights to a fuse that she has to connect at night when she wants them to light up. Don't get me wrong I've done stuff like this before but I just wouldn't have done it in that situation.

Well its been *fixed* for about 1 month and now boom no start no crank. So far I did what I could when it wasn't raining to hard took the starter out and checked the fuses, the started checked out fine but I haven't had time to put it back in. I had her take the multimeter out there and see if the starter wires were getting power but low and behold she said the lights don't even come on the the multimeter shows the battery is fully charged and its hooked up tightly.

I've never tried to do that with a starter removed before so I'm hoping that the reason the car is acting like there is no power is because the starter is out maybe as a safety precaution. Well enough of the story here are my questions.

If the car acting as is the battery isn't hooked up is it the starter not being there if not do I have another problem to hunt down?

Could her brothers *fix* have caused the problem?

I know I need to put the starter back in before I can continue diagnosing the problem I can see if the wires are messed up and such if its not raining and such.

Please and thank you
drew

Could be a fused link in the wires by the starter, they can blow out and you wont get it to crank if its blown.

Did someone take the starter somehwere to get tested ?

Could be a fused link in the wires by the starter, they can blow out and you wont get it to crank if its blown.

Did someone take the starter somehwere to get tested ?

Yes I was thinking that I actually got to look at it today and i saw a set of wires *about 8 red wires* 7 were connected to the thing and the 8th wire looked like it was cut but I was thinking that maybe it was a fuseable link. My question is where does that wire go to should I just follow the other 7 and see where the other end of the fryed wire is?

At first I was tempted to just do a quick attachment to the battery and see if it started but I thought that would be a bad idea.

It wouldn't let me edit but yes I did get the starter tested at autozone they say they tested it 3 times back to back to back and it was perfect every time. I was hoping it was the starter because I got a lifetime warranty on it.

Not sure exactly what or where that specific wire goes with out seeing it for my self.
Here is a pic (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c242/xeroinfinity/SeCond%20Hand/92-95wirediagramc.gif)of that charging system.

Hope that helps

yes it does help it shows the wires i was speaking of as a fuseable link. I hope I'm reading it right when i say I think it goes to the alternator. I have a chiltons for the car but it isn't really helpful in this situation.

Ok I FINALLY had a day off to look at the car and well I just couldn't figure out where that wire leads to. My friend was there and suggested just testing the connections at the starter with a voltmeter while he was doing that he had me turn the key and boom the car started.

He had accidently touched the ground on the starter and the positive at the same time and with me turning the key it started. I turned off the car and tried without his "help" this time and no start. Tried again with his help and boom fired right up.

I'm so lost.

If all your connections, power and grounds, are clean and tight, then I'd say its possible your starter is the problem.

I suggest you put new MFS, wire everyting properly according to wire diagram forget about splicing wires and experimenting with connecting them with other wires just to make someting work, because you could make one thing work but in the long run will destroy 5 other things. Certain wires can only take certain amount of current and if you wire more things to it there are chances you can blow fuse or even start fire, plus you will never be able to diagnose things properly if wires are mixed up. Do this thing right the first time to avoid headackes later on. Maybe your ignition switch is now damaged due to overloading of certain circuit.

The starter was checked out they said it was fine but I'll take it to a different place and let them check it.

I wasn't just trying to connect random wires I was following them all back and it looked like a wire was missing I was thinking it was a fuseable link like xero said but I just couldn't find a matching end so I guess that was just a wild goose chase.

If the starter comes back fine I'll have to try a new ignition switch. I've changed them before but is there a way to test them?

This is the trick that I use when I need to check certain electrical parts and if I am not 100% sure it is the problem or if I do not have electrical diagram and testing procedures for it. For example in our case we have ignition switch: if you remove this swithch and look closely at the contacts of the swithc, you will notice various letters or numbers next to each contact. Lets say there are 8 contacts 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and 8, now take a paper and pen and make a shorter list of resistance measures between several terminals. Ex:1-2, 1-3, 1-4, 1-5, 1-6, 2-4, 2-7, 3-7,5-6 5-7, 3-8 etc.( the more the better). Do the same thing on the new part at Autozone before you decide to buy the part. They will let you measure resistance with your DVOM and if your new resistance measures do not match with the old ones you know there is something wrong. I forgot to mention you will need your friend to hold the swithc in the start position while you test old and new switch. I know it sounds stupid but hey, it saves you some money since they will not allow you to return electrical parts.

Have you measured the voltage on the red wires. All the red wires have 12 Vdc on the wires. If the any of the wires do not have the 12 volts then the fuseable link is bad. Also check the resistance of the starter case and to the negitave of the battery. There should be very low or no resistance at all. If you do measure any thing above like 1 ohm then there is a problem with the ground.

fusible link you can test by grabbing it at the both ends and trying to streatch it. If it streatches that means that the conductor inside is open and you are streaching the rubber part.

thnx everyone ill try all those options next hopefully tomorrow morning. If I can't do it before work tomorrow i'll have to wait until tuesday.

the switch goes in tomorrow well in about 3 hrs stupid insomnia. Well i was up reading some more and does anyone think it may be the neutral safety switch. Hopefully it is the ignition switch since I already have it sitting next to me waiting to go in but if it still doesn't start should that be the next part I move onto looking at?

On The neutral safety switch, it could be just an adjustment. But it is possible that the switch is bad.

omg what size are the screws on the ignition switch. i have no sockets that small its like a 1mm.

Ok I got the screws out with some needle nose vice grips but now everything is connected. The car only starts about every other turn on the times when it didn't start before I got nothing but now I can hear the starter relay click just doesn't turn over. I had the starter checked again and they said it is good.

When the car doesn't start you have to rock it back and forth in order for it to start.

Does anyone have any ideas?

I had a starter that was in a Dodge Champ I think, would not start. I would have to bang on the floor then the starter would work. I am not sure it applies to your situation. Is the car in park when you rock the car. If it is it still could be a problem with the neutral/park safety switch. well at least it is a step in the right direction.

Yea I tried starting it in drive and neutral and just about every other time it only starts if I shake it. The starters been tested 3 times by 2 different places so next I will tackel the nss. Does anyone have a link to the location?

you should not be able to start in D, the prndL switch is on top of the trans (looks flat maybe L2 x W1.5 x h1/2

I cant believe this is three pages for a no crank/start issue :shakehead

On the Park /Neutral Saftey Switch check for power.
Here's a link (http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/0e/5b/e1/0900823d800e5be1/repairInfoPages.htm)that shows how to replace and set the switch.


ps- your trans is a 3T40

lol it is a pretty long thread. But it does start now just sometimes you have to shake it back and forth. It had this problem before but the mechanic wouldn't tell my grandma the name of the part that was messed up he still charged her a nice amount of money for diagnostic that was a few years before she gave it to me.

Time for a new thread with a new problem?