transmission issues pre 2006

I have researched the use of the dextron III in these pre 2006 automatic transmissions...it appears that the use of this dextron III is damaging the internal parts,and causes a poor cold shift performance..

I would recommend that all replace this dextron III with the new improved fliud to reduce future problems...

I have researched the use of the dextron III in these pre 2006 automatic transmissions...it appears that the use of this dextron III is damaging the internal parts,and causes a poor cold shift performance..

I would recommend that all replace this dextron III with the new improved fliud to reduce future problems...

I assume you are also referring to the 96 K1500 tranny and what is the name of the new improved fluid?

Thanks

I never seen this happen yet putting in Dextron III.GM should listen to the aftermarket,throw the 5 black springs away in the direct drum burning up clutches in the 4L60Es.The aftermarket says to throw them away and GM says to put them back in.The clutches need to float and those 5 black spring restrict that.

I assume you are also referring to the 96 K1500 tranny and what is the name of the new improved fluid?

Thanks

yes any of the older transmissions pre 2006 will benefit..this is now dextronVI...

gm admits that dextron III doesn't perform...search the internet..

back in 1998 I replaced that dextron III with synthetic and now I know why It made such an improvement....

Agreed on the STOOPID spring cages on the input drum. I have quite a little collection, if anyone actually ever wants some...

The only good thing about them is that they make checking the 3-4 clutch stack clearance a little easier. ;)

yes any of the older transmissions pre 2006 will benefit..this is now dextronVI...

gm admits that dextron III doesn't perform...search the internet..

back in 1998 I replaced that dextron III with synthetic and now I know why It made such an improvement....
FYI, It's DEXRON, not dexTron! The new DEXRON VI is designed for transmissions that are currently being built and is recommended for all GM Automatic transmissions that were built with DEXRON III. That DOES NOT mean that DEXRON III doesn't perform and I don't know where that comment comes from. The following is taken from the May 2007 edition of TECH Link that is sent monthly to all GM Dealers.
************************************************** *****

In early 2005, General Motors released a newly developed automatic transmission fluid (ATF) for the factory fill of all GM Powertrain stepped-gear automatic transmissions. The new fluid provides significantly improved performance in terms of friction durability, viscosity stability, aeration and foam control and oxidation resistance. In addition, the fluid has the potential to enable improved fuel economy and extended drain intervals. Because the performance of the new fluid far exceeded that of the DEXRON-III service-fill fluids available at the time, it became necessary to upgrade the DEXRON service-fill specification in order to ensure that similar fluids were available in the market for service situations. This latest upgrade to the service- fill specification is designated DEXRON-VI (fig. 1).

http://www.gmtraining.com/TMSWebtree/techlink/images/issues/may07/images/6x6/fig1.jpg
Since General Motors introduced the first ATF service-fill specification in 1949, it has been necessary to upgrade the specification periodically.

The upgrading process ensures that available service-fill fluids are of an appropriate quality for use in transmissions that have been designed around the factory-fill fluid performance.

TIP: As with previous upgrades, DEXRON-VI fluids are designed to be backward compatible with earlier transmission hardware. More importantly, earlier type fluids are not forward compatible with transmission hardware that was designed to use DEXRON-VI fluid.

DEXRON-III is not compatible with the most recently designed transmissions, and the use of these earlier type fluids could result in transmission damage. All current calibrations and certification tests are now conducted with DEXRON-VI ATF. DEXRON-III fluids should not be used for those applications where the owner manual recommends the use of DEXRON-VI.

TIP: GM does not license or support obsolete ATF specifications or the use of fluids that are being marketed against cancelled specifications.

All DEXRON-III licenses expired at the end of 2006 and will not be renewed. Beyond that date, GM will support only DEXRON-VI fluids for use in Hydra-Matic transmissions. Avoid fluids sold in the market after that date bearing claims such as “suitable for use in
DEXRON-III applications” or similar wording. DEXRON-VI licensed fluids are fully backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF specifications.

The use of unlicensed fluids and/or non-GM approved aftermarket additives may prove detrimental to transmission performance and void warranty coverage.

- Thanks to Angela Willis
Precaution: DEXRON-VI in Manual Transmissions

When DEXRON-III is indicated as the fluid fill for manual transmissions and transfer cases, DO NOT use DEXRON-VI. Instead, use GM Manual Transmission Fluid p/n 88861800 in these components.

TIP: Refer to PIP3836B (Feb. 2007).

If the manual transmission or transfer case indicates use of DEXRON-VI, then, of course, it should be used.

Purging Equipment

Before filling your bulk fluid equipment with DEXRON-VI, be sure to purge the old oil from it.

Also, be sure to purge your J-45096 Transflow machine before using it with DEXRON-VI.

Thanks for the spelling correction ya its DEXRON..HA HA
this was put out so that owners with the 4l60 and other pre 2006 models should reconsider using a fluid GM secretly has changed the operating spec on.

this means use all your resources and make sure you install or the repairer install the lastest correct fluid..not a fluid that has performed improperly by the oem spec..


the other point I was making is the dexron III is a poorly performing fluid and should not be used in your transmission..

Thanks for the spelling correction ya its DEXRON..HA HA
this was put out so that owners with the 4l60 and other pre 2006 models should reconsider using a fluid GM secretly has changed the operating spec on.

this means use all your resources and make sure you install or the repairer install the lastest correct fluid..not a fluid that has performed improperly by the oem spec..




the other point I was making is the dexron III is a poorly performing fluid and should not be used in your transmission..

Doesn't look like much of a secret change to me! Everyone in the automotive world knew it when it happened, just because you didn't know it doesn't mean it was a secret. There were changes made internally to the new 6 speed automatic transmissions that required a differant spec fluid. Your deduction that DEXRON III didn't perform is just your uninformed deductive reasoning. I supose when the specs of engine oil move up to the next level of performance you deduce that the previous spec performed improperly? If you have anything from anyone in the industry with credentials that are believeable that says DEXRON III did not perform properly, post the link or the copy and pasted information. Until then, your opinion is just that and no-one should take it for fact.

if you research this on the internet as I suggest the members to do, and not just take MY word/OPINION about it you will find lots of information concerning this dexron III issue.

I also was suprised to see that YOU on other forums not here ,,,in 2006 made comments concerning this fluid issue.

the internet has many a 4l6o transmission owners reporting the failure of dexron III , and how this was corrected by the use of transmission synthetics from other manufacturers...

the solution that my reading investigation points to the complete purging of all dexron III and adding the new fliud...

this is not just concerning this transmission, as it appears that other GM trannys are also effected ..so to all MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE LASTEST CORRECT FLUID INTO YOUR VEHICLE, CHECK WITH THE DEALER WITH VIN TO ENSURE THAT THIS IS ALL CORRECT.


P.S. GM never notified me about this change in 2005...I have two vehicles purchased new and still not notified...I was told by GM that I did not have the technical knowledge to understand this TSB.....

if you research this on the internet as I suggest the members to do, and not just take MY word/OPINION about it you will find lots of information concerning this dexron III issue.

I also was suprised to see that YOU on other forums not here ,,,in 2006 made comments concerning this fluid issue.

the internet has many a 4l6o transmission owners reporting the failure of dexron III , and how this was corrected by the use of transmission synthetics from other manufacturers...

the solution that my reading investigation points to the complete purging of all dexron III and adding the new fliud...

this is not just concerning this transmission, as it appears that other GM trannys are also effected ..so to all MAKE SURE YOU PUT THE LASTEST CORRECT FLUID INTO YOUR VEHICLE, CHECK WITH THE DEALER WITH VIN TO ENSURE THAT THIS IS ALL CORRECT.


P.S. GM never notified me about this change in 2005...I have two vehicles purchased new and still not notified...I was told by GM that I did not have the technical knowledge to understand this TSB.....

Previously discussed by me on other forums. I'm sure you are right. I DID NOT say DEXRON III was a defective fluid. I informed others of the new fluid and that 2006 and up vehicles use it. If someone is changing fluid on an older vehicle they might as well use the latest approved fluid.

Research the internet? For what purpose? Just to see uninformed supositions from people like you? Many transmission failures from a defective fluid? Those comments made by people with the same type of uninformed defective deductive reasoning like you use would be useless.

You're waiting for notification? You'll be waiting a long time because this is not a recall. This is an updated fluid spec for 2006 and newer GM Automatic Transmissions. The TSB was mostly reproduced in my previous posting from the TECH Link article. I assume you read it but I don't think you understood it. And I DO question your technical knowledge. I'll be watching your postings to be sure you aren't mis-leading others.

I guess I have a hard time nicely telling someone that they don't know what they are talking about. Your profile gives no one the assurance that you have the technical training that most on these forums appreciate.

The only reason this and the other forums exist is because vehicle owners and repair shops including dealer tech's , are left in the dark as to the lastest changes in their repair/spec on the vehicle purchased/to be repaired.

this is where gm and the other domestic auto makers will soon feel the pain of past failures to make/take the proper actions so as to correct these defects in their manufacturing process rather than hide them for fear of litigation.

the majority say no loan to help them..why is that?...they thought they were so powerful...well now its not so.

it will be the union workers and the retires that will suffer loss. while the upper management gets to take home the gold.

In a few months it will be GM who? whats that?

Your reply was a nice attempt to distract people from the conversation we were having and to take the attention off you. If dealer techs are left in the dark it is because they are not paying attention to the massive amounts of technical material available. All manufacturers are required to make technical information available to independant repair shops and individuals. Just because you don't know something doesn't mean dealer technicians are in the dark. If a change in specs means that everything prior to it is defective I am sure we would all own a bunch of defective products.
I can fix ignorant but stupid will take a while longer!!!

Why did GM insist on a new fluid? The company’s press release makes it clear that it is striving for superior transmission performance. That, in turn, should improve customer satisfaction and, most important for GM, cut down on warranty work. For example, the new DEXRON-VI will have the following advantages compared to current DEXRON-III: More consistent viscosity during service (that is, very little sheardown) More consistent shift performance, especially in extreme conditionsMore than double the durability in friction characteristicsMore fluid life by about 50% You can get one indication of the tighter spec limits by comparing the requirements that GM has placed on its cyclic shifting test. For the DEXRON-III G spec, you had to achieve acceptable cycling test performance for 20,000 cycles. For DEXRON-III H, the bar was raised to 32,000 cycles. And, for the new DEXRON-VI, you have to performwell for 42,000 cycles. Many other performance tests, such as ATF oxidation life, have similar increases in spec requirements. The GM oxidation life test is run in a 4L60 transmission operated continuously at 325ºF. For the DEXRON-III G spec, researchers run the test for 300 hours and the increase in oil acid number is limited to 3.25 or less. For DEXRON-III H, researchers increase the test length to 450 hours, with the same limit on acid increase. With DEXRON-VI, the test length is 450 hours, but the allowable acid number increase is 2.0 or less. This superior performance under high temperature conditions has allowed GM’s new ATF to be designed for drain intervals of 100,000 miles (normal service) or 50,000 miles (severe service).

this article along with many others from companies that are in this area of interest all say the same...

If we were to use your reasoning on this that would mean that all DEXRON spec fluids since 1949 were defective, or, that the transmissions were defective. Does that sound reasonable? From TSB 04-07-30-037D, dated 11/21/07, some of the improvements to DEXRON VI are: Clutch friction stability improved 100%, Clutch durability due to fluid improved 120%, Oil film thickness increased 20%, Fluid oxidation improved 100%, Foam/aeration improved 150%, Shear stability improved 200%. Some of todays transmissions have to operate in some severe enviroments that include extreme high temperatures from packaging restraints and performance useage. All customers want reduced operating costs and DEXRON VI increases the recommended service interval mileage. Differant transmission friction materials can require differant fluids. Synthetic engine oils are superior to petroleum based engine oils. Does that mean that petroleum based engine oils are defective or the engines that don't come factory filled with synthetic are defective? Engine oil specs have changes many, many times since I started in the automotive business in the late 60's. When a spec changed, does that mean the previous oil or engine was defective? Lets just agree to disagree and let everyone else make their own choises based on their own research. If their research turns up bad information and they decide to believe it, I guess they will just have to live with it. I for one will believe what comes from GM Fuels and Lubricants on this subject. By the way, I understand the spec for engine oil may be changing in 2009. I can't wait to get that defective Mobil 1 out of my engines, (and oil can) when the new spec arrives!!!

If we were to use your reasoning on this that would mean that all DEXRON spec fluids since 1949 were defective, or, that the transmissions were defective. Does that sound reasonable? From TSB 04-07-30-037D, dated 11/21/07, some of the improvements to DEXRON VI are: Clutch friction stability improved 100%, Clutch durability due to fluid improved 120%, Oil film thickness increased 20%, Fluid oxidation improved 100%, Foam/aeration improved 150%, Shear stability improved 200%. Some of todays transmissions have to operate in some severe enviroments that include extreme high temperatures from packaging restraints and performance useage. All customers want reduced operating costs and DEXRON VI increases the recommended service interval mileage. Differant transmission friction materials can require differant fluids. Synthetic engine oils are superior to petroleum based engine oils. Does that mean that petroleum based engine oils are defective or the engines that don't come factory filled with synthetic are defective? Engine oil specs have changes many, many times since I started in the automotive business in the late 60's. When a spec changed, does that mean the previous oil or engine was defective? Lets just agree to disagree and let everyone else make their own choises based on their own research. If their research turns up bad information and they decide to believe it, I guess they will just have to live with it. I for one will believe what comes from GM Fuels and Lubricants on this subject. By the way, I understand the spec for engine oil may be changing in 2009. I can't wait to get that defective Mobil 1 out of my engines, (and oil can) when the new spec arrives!!!

I'm not sure if ILSAC GF-5 will make it in 2009. May be 2010 before it gets here. Just have to wait and see.


I'm still running on GF-3 SL German Castrol 0W30. Works great though.

Have a good one,:smile:

Don

the 4l60 transmission is the topic and the use of dexron III.
as you can read this document I took from a company. it states what I believe to be correct...

so what gets me is I knew in 1998 that dexron III in a 4l60 had issues. GM comes out in 2005 to change the spec because they are trying to reduce warrantee work !

It is no wonder in a few days that this company will be on the bankrupt road....dexron VI was to reduce warrantee work/claims not to have a greater customer relationship/product....its always about GM never the customer...