This is just .... wrong
03cavPA
11-28-2008, 07:25 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/28/black.friday.violence/index.html
Wal-Mart worker dies in rush; two killed at toy store
(CNN) -- A temporary Wal-Mart employee was trampled to death Friday in a rush of thousands of early morning shoppers as he attempted to unlock the doors of a Valley Stream, New York, store at 5 a.m., police said.
The man was 34 and lived in Queens, said Nassau County police Detective Lt. Michael Fleming. Authorities did not release his name.
"This was utter chaos as these men tried to open the door this morning," Fleming said.
In California, two people were killed in a shooting at a Toys 'R' Us in Palm Desert, according to the Riverside County Fire Department. The shooting occurred about 11:36 a.m. (2:36 p.m. ET), authorities said. Police did not release the victims' ages or gender.
In New York, video footage showed as many as a dozen people knocked to the floor in the stampede of people trying to get into the Wal-Mart store, Fleming said. The employee was "stepped on by hundreds of people" as other workers attempted to fight their way through the crowd, Fleming said.
"Several minutes" passed before others were able to clear space around the man and render some aid. Police arrived, and "as they were giving first aid, those police officers were also jostled and pushed," he said.
"Shoppers ... were on a full-out run into the store," he said.
The crowd had began forming outside the store as early as 9 p.m. Thursday, Fleming said police patrols had reported. Just before the doors opened at 5 a.m., the crowd probably numbered at least 2,000, and when the doors were unlocked, "the crowd surged forward" forcefully enough to break the store's doors, he said.
..............................
In California, Daniel Watson said he was at home with his children when his wife called from the Toys "R" Us store, where she was shopping with her mother.
"All I could hear was gunshots in the back," he said. "She said, 'They're in here shooting.' I told her to run and hide, stay down and hide."
He said his wife hid in the back of the store under a clothes rack. "She said she saw at least two people dead," he said. Watson said both his wife and mother-in-law got out of the store without injury.
Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said Palm Desert police received several calls of shots being fired inside the store and found two people dead when they arrived. He had no information on a suspect or suspects.
.....................................
All this for some "bargains"? :eek7:
Wal-Mart worker dies in rush; two killed at toy store
(CNN) -- A temporary Wal-Mart employee was trampled to death Friday in a rush of thousands of early morning shoppers as he attempted to unlock the doors of a Valley Stream, New York, store at 5 a.m., police said.
The man was 34 and lived in Queens, said Nassau County police Detective Lt. Michael Fleming. Authorities did not release his name.
"This was utter chaos as these men tried to open the door this morning," Fleming said.
In California, two people were killed in a shooting at a Toys 'R' Us in Palm Desert, according to the Riverside County Fire Department. The shooting occurred about 11:36 a.m. (2:36 p.m. ET), authorities said. Police did not release the victims' ages or gender.
In New York, video footage showed as many as a dozen people knocked to the floor in the stampede of people trying to get into the Wal-Mart store, Fleming said. The employee was "stepped on by hundreds of people" as other workers attempted to fight their way through the crowd, Fleming said.
"Several minutes" passed before others were able to clear space around the man and render some aid. Police arrived, and "as they were giving first aid, those police officers were also jostled and pushed," he said.
"Shoppers ... were on a full-out run into the store," he said.
The crowd had began forming outside the store as early as 9 p.m. Thursday, Fleming said police patrols had reported. Just before the doors opened at 5 a.m., the crowd probably numbered at least 2,000, and when the doors were unlocked, "the crowd surged forward" forcefully enough to break the store's doors, he said.
..............................
In California, Daniel Watson said he was at home with his children when his wife called from the Toys "R" Us store, where she was shopping with her mother.
"All I could hear was gunshots in the back," he said. "She said, 'They're in here shooting.' I told her to run and hide, stay down and hide."
He said his wife hid in the back of the store under a clothes rack. "She said she saw at least two people dead," he said. Watson said both his wife and mother-in-law got out of the store without injury.
Riverside County sheriff's Sgt. Dennis Gutierrez said Palm Desert police received several calls of shots being fired inside the store and found two people dead when they arrived. He had no information on a suspect or suspects.
.....................................
All this for some "bargains"? :eek7:
ericn1300
11-28-2008, 11:58 PM
And in the end, it's just "stuff". Wal-Mart has nothing I would die for. And who would you be willing to kill for to just get "stuff"?
'97ventureowner
11-29-2008, 02:41 AM
And they wonder why other countries hate us :shakehead:.
03cavPA
11-29-2008, 08:43 AM
And in the end, it's just "stuff". Wal-Mart has nothing I would die for. And who would you be willing to kill for to just get "stuff"?
I'd think food would rank right up there, but let's hope it doesn't get that bad. I'm not real hopeful about the state of affairs we'll find ourselves in come Spring, but all we can do is wait and see.
After the latest developments in the economy, I have to wonder why people still think they have to have these things so badly that they'll stampede and kill a human being to buy things that, to be honest, no one really "needs".
I've never understood why it's so damn important to wait in line at 0400 to get a "deal" on some widgets. :shakehead
I'd think food would rank right up there, but let's hope it doesn't get that bad. I'm not real hopeful about the state of affairs we'll find ourselves in come Spring, but all we can do is wait and see.
After the latest developments in the economy, I have to wonder why people still think they have to have these things so badly that they'll stampede and kill a human being to buy things that, to be honest, no one really "needs".
I've never understood why it's so damn important to wait in line at 0400 to get a "deal" on some widgets. :shakehead
BNaylor
11-29-2008, 10:48 AM
Thats what happens when you have a brainwashed materialistic society and an economic system that is too dependent on consumer spending. The holiday season is just way too commercialized now.
The ones that amazed me are the ones that camped out on the doorsteps well before the stores opened. :screwy:
And don't forget Cyber Monday. :rolleyes:
I'm in the market for an over 40" LCD or Plasma HDTV but I think I'll wait until around Superbowl time because typically the prices for these hard items should be better than joining the mad rush.
The ones that amazed me are the ones that camped out on the doorsteps well before the stores opened. :screwy:
And don't forget Cyber Monday. :rolleyes:
I'm in the market for an over 40" LCD or Plasma HDTV but I think I'll wait until around Superbowl time because typically the prices for these hard items should be better than joining the mad rush.
03cavPA
11-29-2008, 11:52 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,459068,00.html
......Other workers were trampled as they tried to rescue the man, and customers stepped over him and became irate when officials said the store was closing because of the death, police and witnesses said.
.............
"This crowd was out of control," said Fleming, who described the scene as "utter chaos."
Dozens of store employees trying to fight their way out to help Damour were also getting trampled by the crowd, Fleming said. Witnesses said that even as the worker lay on the ground, shoppers streamed into the store, stepping over him.
Kimberly Cribbs, who witnessed the stampede, said shoppers were acting like "savages."
"When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling, 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,"' she said. "They kept shopping." ..........
This country is in some serious trouble. :banghead:
This is way beyond stupid. The cops should have barricaded the entrance and rounded up everybody in the store on the spot.
These people were angry that rescue efforts got in the way of their shopping. They stepped over a dying/dead man to go buy shit they didn't even need. Damn.
Kill them all and let God sort them out. :angryfire
......Other workers were trampled as they tried to rescue the man, and customers stepped over him and became irate when officials said the store was closing because of the death, police and witnesses said.
.............
"This crowd was out of control," said Fleming, who described the scene as "utter chaos."
Dozens of store employees trying to fight their way out to help Damour were also getting trampled by the crowd, Fleming said. Witnesses said that even as the worker lay on the ground, shoppers streamed into the store, stepping over him.
Kimberly Cribbs, who witnessed the stampede, said shoppers were acting like "savages."
"When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling, 'I've been on line since yesterday morning,"' she said. "They kept shopping." ..........
This country is in some serious trouble. :banghead:
This is way beyond stupid. The cops should have barricaded the entrance and rounded up everybody in the store on the spot.
These people were angry that rescue efforts got in the way of their shopping. They stepped over a dying/dead man to go buy shit they didn't even need. Damn.
Kill them all and let God sort them out. :angryfire
BNaylor
11-29-2008, 12:36 PM
New York so go figure. :screwy: It looks like they shop like the way they drive which really suks. Effed up savages is an understatement. :shakehead
Even the entrance doors shown in the pics were damaged. :rolleyes:
Even the entrance doors shown in the pics were damaged. :rolleyes:
'97ventureowner
11-29-2008, 04:40 PM
Thats what happens when you have a brainwashed materialistic society and an economic system that is too dependent on consumer spending. The holiday season is just way too commercialized now.
You got that right Bob! I noticed this year some stores actually started to display some Christmas items as early as August! :eek: What's next, stores devoting several aisles year round for Christmas stuff??
I'm in the market for an over 40" LCD or Plasma HDTV but I think I'll wait until around Superbowl time because typically the prices for these hard items should be better than joining the mad rush.
Actually I've read from several sources, including Consumer Reports that the best time to buy a tv is a time period two weeks leading up to the Superbowl.
New York so go figure. :screwy: It looks like they shop like the way they drive which really suks. Effed up savages is an understatement. :shakehead
Even the entrance doors shown in the pics were damaged. :rolleyes:
Now now, before you start belittling NY I will have you know, as a fellow NYer we are not all the same :lol: We aren't all the savages and poor drivers. That's NYC, we NYer's do not like to be compared to them and would rather lump all those people 'down there" into a separate state. (Don't laugh, bills have been introduced in our state's Legislature to make it happen, but I don't think we'll ever see it happen :shakehead: Too much of our tax money goes down there to support them and that pisses many Upstate residents.
I was amazed, looking in our morning paper that people still waited around for hours behind police tape for the cops to finish up their investigation and for the store to re-open. Now that's tenacity!:lol:(And it's not only NY as the incident at the Toys R Us in SoCal is evidenced as well.)
You got that right Bob! I noticed this year some stores actually started to display some Christmas items as early as August! :eek: What's next, stores devoting several aisles year round for Christmas stuff??
I'm in the market for an over 40" LCD or Plasma HDTV but I think I'll wait until around Superbowl time because typically the prices for these hard items should be better than joining the mad rush.
Actually I've read from several sources, including Consumer Reports that the best time to buy a tv is a time period two weeks leading up to the Superbowl.
New York so go figure. :screwy: It looks like they shop like the way they drive which really suks. Effed up savages is an understatement. :shakehead
Even the entrance doors shown in the pics were damaged. :rolleyes:
Now now, before you start belittling NY I will have you know, as a fellow NYer we are not all the same :lol: We aren't all the savages and poor drivers. That's NYC, we NYer's do not like to be compared to them and would rather lump all those people 'down there" into a separate state. (Don't laugh, bills have been introduced in our state's Legislature to make it happen, but I don't think we'll ever see it happen :shakehead: Too much of our tax money goes down there to support them and that pisses many Upstate residents.
I was amazed, looking in our morning paper that people still waited around for hours behind police tape for the cops to finish up their investigation and for the store to re-open. Now that's tenacity!:lol:(And it's not only NY as the incident at the Toys R Us in SoCal is evidenced as well.)
VR43000GT
11-29-2008, 06:46 PM
Yeah this story is really saddening and dimoralizing. It makes me have very little faith in people. And while I completely agree, you can't lump everyone into a group and call them all the same...I will say that when I was in NYC it consisted of the most unpleasant people I have ever been around. So many people came off as rude and seemed to ONLY care about what was happening to them with no regard for others. So I guess this does not surprise me that much that it happend up there. It is a place that I will never visit agian.
blazee
11-29-2008, 08:23 PM
This just goes to show that poor people are the scum of the earth. I bet when they got home the story was all about how much they bought or how much they saved on a certain item, and at the end there was an "oh yeah, and somebody died too."
Fuck Obama and his "redistribution of wealth" ....let the lazy and poor starve and die, it will just make the country better for the rest of us.
On the bright side, it was just a Walmart employee, so they only killed one of their own.
Fuck Obama and his "redistribution of wealth" ....let the lazy and poor starve and die, it will just make the country better for the rest of us.
On the bright side, it was just a Walmart employee, so they only killed one of their own.
'97ventureowner
11-29-2008, 10:22 PM
And while I completely agree, you can't lump everyone into a group and call them all the same...I will say that when I was in NYC it consisted of the most unpleasant people I have ever been around. So many people came off as rude and seemed to ONLY care about what was happening to them with no regard for others. So I guess this does not surprise me that much that it happend up there. It is a place that I will never visit agian.
A funny comment about NYC folk is when you talk to them, they seem like their in their own little world. You ask them what Upstate is like and many( those that rarely get out of the area) seem to think it's like a tundra, or is all forests with little population density :uhoh: :eek7:
A funny comment about NYC folk is when you talk to them, they seem like their in their own little world. You ask them what Upstate is like and many( those that rarely get out of the area) seem to think it's like a tundra, or is all forests with little population density :uhoh: :eek7:
2strokebloke
11-30-2008, 04:42 AM
People are incredibly stupid in large numbers. I think it was the Iroquois Theatre fire in 1903, where more people died from being trampled and crushed than died from the fire itself (several hundred people died).
A large group of people in a frenzy is always trouble.
This just goes to show that poor people are the scum of the earth.
If I didn't think you were being sarcastic I'd think this was the stupidest thing I've heard all year (which means you'd have beaten out some pretty stupid contenders by this point).
I also think it's funny that some of the same people who dislike my generalizations about certain southern states apparently have no problem making generalizations about certain northern states :icon16:
A large group of people in a frenzy is always trouble.
This just goes to show that poor people are the scum of the earth.
If I didn't think you were being sarcastic I'd think this was the stupidest thing I've heard all year (which means you'd have beaten out some pretty stupid contenders by this point).
I also think it's funny that some of the same people who dislike my generalizations about certain southern states apparently have no problem making generalizations about certain northern states :icon16:
03cavPA
11-30-2008, 07:51 AM
A large group of people in a frenzy is always trouble.
Agree. Mob mentality FTL. I could think of a lot of things for a crowd to get frenzied about, but widget bargains at Wally World doesn't make the list.
The cops missed a golden opportunity to clean out the gene pool on the spot. Riot gear and shotguns, anyone? :iceslolan
Agree. Mob mentality FTL. I could think of a lot of things for a crowd to get frenzied about, but widget bargains at Wally World doesn't make the list.
The cops missed a golden opportunity to clean out the gene pool on the spot. Riot gear and shotguns, anyone? :iceslolan
03cavPA
11-30-2008, 07:59 AM
Now now, before you start belittling NY I will have you know, as a fellow NYer we are not all the same :lol: We aren't all the savages and poor drivers. That's NYC, we NYer's do not like to be compared to them and would rather lump all those people 'down there" into a separate state. (Don't laugh, bills have been introduced in our state's Legislature to make it happen, but I don't think we'll ever see it happen :shakehead: Too much of our tax money goes down there to support them and that pisses many Upstate residents.
Yep, in northern PA, we feel the same way about Philly. (semi-sarcasm alert!) Stupid, self absorbed assholes for the most part. A crowded, unaffordable environment will do that to ya.
Too bad we can't get some legislation to redraw some states and let the Phila/NJ/NYC area fall off into the ocean. No one would notice much, since that area is already polluted enough as it is. :iceslolan
Yep, in northern PA, we feel the same way about Philly. (semi-sarcasm alert!) Stupid, self absorbed assholes for the most part. A crowded, unaffordable environment will do that to ya.
Too bad we can't get some legislation to redraw some states and let the Phila/NJ/NYC area fall off into the ocean. No one would notice much, since that area is already polluted enough as it is. :iceslolan
BNaylor
11-30-2008, 10:58 AM
People are incredibly stupid in large numbers. I think it was the Iroquois Theatre fire in 1903, where more people died from being trampled and crushed than died from the fire itself (several hundred people died).
What has that incident got to do with this issue which is based on greed. Big difference between a fire that breaks out versus a bunch of frenzied moronic shoppers. Comparing apples to oranges. :rolleyes:
I also think it's funny that some of the same people who dislike my generalizations about certain southern states apparently have no problem making generalizations about certain northern states :icon16:
Since you opened the door.
The last time I checked your generalizations are a bunch of B.S. anyways or cheap talk. :biggrin:.........:lol: My observations and comments concerning New York are based on my actual experiences there since I have visited the state including New York City every year for the past four years until my oldest son graduates from West Point which thank goodness is this May 2009. After that no more visits and no love lost. And the roads suk too!
What has that incident got to do with this issue which is based on greed. Big difference between a fire that breaks out versus a bunch of frenzied moronic shoppers. Comparing apples to oranges. :rolleyes:
I also think it's funny that some of the same people who dislike my generalizations about certain southern states apparently have no problem making generalizations about certain northern states :icon16:
Since you opened the door.
The last time I checked your generalizations are a bunch of B.S. anyways or cheap talk. :biggrin:.........:lol: My observations and comments concerning New York are based on my actual experiences there since I have visited the state including New York City every year for the past four years until my oldest son graduates from West Point which thank goodness is this May 2009. After that no more visits and no love lost. And the roads suk too!
VR43000GT
11-30-2008, 01:30 PM
I also think it's funny that some of the same people who dislike my generalizations about certain southern states apparently have no problem making generalizations about certain northern states :icon16:
I do hope that is not directed towards me. If it is, let me refresh your memory...
And while I completely agree, you can't lump everyone into a group and call them all the same...I will say that when I was in NYC it consisted of the most unpleasant people I have ever been around. So many people came off as rude and seemed to ONLY care about what was happening to them with no regard for others. So I guess this does not surprise me that much that it happend up there. It is a place that I will never visit agian.
And it did consist of the most unpleasant people I had ever been around...just NYC. I nowhere said all of them and even made a point to make sure that eveybody understood that I didn't mean all of them.
I do hope that is not directed towards me. If it is, let me refresh your memory...
And while I completely agree, you can't lump everyone into a group and call them all the same...I will say that when I was in NYC it consisted of the most unpleasant people I have ever been around. So many people came off as rude and seemed to ONLY care about what was happening to them with no regard for others. So I guess this does not surprise me that much that it happend up there. It is a place that I will never visit agian.
And it did consist of the most unpleasant people I had ever been around...just NYC. I nowhere said all of them and even made a point to make sure that eveybody understood that I didn't mean all of them.
2strokebloke
11-30-2008, 05:37 PM
What has that incident got to do with this issue
It has to do with a large number of people in a frenzy. Don't play stupid.:p That's the point, when people are in a crowd and excited they don't think.
My observations and comments concerning New York are based on my actual experiences there since I have visited the state including New York City every year for the past four years until my oldest son graduates from West Point which thank goodness is this May 2009. After that no more visits and no love lost. And the roads suk too!
Well I'm sure you visiting NY gives you a far more informed opinion of the area than say me living in North Carolina for five years and in Georgia for two and a half... :icon16: But then again, I think I share your opinion of NY, only applied to GA.:iceslolan
It has to do with a large number of people in a frenzy. Don't play stupid.:p That's the point, when people are in a crowd and excited they don't think.
My observations and comments concerning New York are based on my actual experiences there since I have visited the state including New York City every year for the past four years until my oldest son graduates from West Point which thank goodness is this May 2009. After that no more visits and no love lost. And the roads suk too!
Well I'm sure you visiting NY gives you a far more informed opinion of the area than say me living in North Carolina for five years and in Georgia for two and a half... :icon16: But then again, I think I share your opinion of NY, only applied to GA.:iceslolan
BNaylor
11-30-2008, 05:46 PM
It has to do with a large number of people in a frenzy. Don't play stupid.:p That's the point, when people are in a crowd and excited they don't think.
Stupid is as stupid does. :p.....:lol: Simplistic explanation but acceptable.
Well I'm sure you visiting NY gives you a far more informed opinion of the area than say me living in North Carolina for five years and in Georgia for two and a half... :icon16: But then again, I think I share your opinion of NY, only applied to GA.:iceslolan
Trust me you would not like it there. Nice place to visit but living there is another issue. :uhoh: The same applies to New Jersey where my family was originally from.
I lived in the Atlanta, GA area for over two years (Marietta, Cobb County) so I know what you are talking about. Traffic is terrible. The chicks were nice and friendly though. :wink:
Stupid is as stupid does. :p.....:lol: Simplistic explanation but acceptable.
Well I'm sure you visiting NY gives you a far more informed opinion of the area than say me living in North Carolina for five years and in Georgia for two and a half... :icon16: But then again, I think I share your opinion of NY, only applied to GA.:iceslolan
Trust me you would not like it there. Nice place to visit but living there is another issue. :uhoh: The same applies to New Jersey where my family was originally from.
I lived in the Atlanta, GA area for over two years (Marietta, Cobb County) so I know what you are talking about. Traffic is terrible. The chicks were nice and friendly though. :wink:
twospirits
12-09-2008, 11:02 PM
A few bad apples does not spoil the bunch. And yes while we New Yorkers get hated and I agree some do really stupid things, not all are like that. And certainly its not as bad living here in the city as some may say.
I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.
TS
I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.
TS
YogsVR4
12-10-2008, 02:48 PM
In the words of the poet "Shit happens"
Hindsight makes everyone an expert and the situation obvious.
My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over. While it should certainly get management at various stores thinking of better ways to handle the crowds, I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict as so many people seem to believe.
Hindsight makes everyone an expert and the situation obvious.
My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over. While it should certainly get management at various stores thinking of better ways to handle the crowds, I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict as so many people seem to believe.
ericn1300
12-10-2008, 08:40 PM
In the words of the poet "Shit happens"
Hindsight makes everyone an expert and the situation obvious.
My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over. While it should certainly get management at various stores thinking of better ways to handle the crowds, I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict as so many people seem to believe.
Wow, your post is quite a contradiction. First you say “My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over” then you say “I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict”.
Are you saying repeated behavioral responses in the past are not predictive?
Hindsight makes everyone an expert and the situation obvious.
My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over. While it should certainly get management at various stores thinking of better ways to handle the crowds, I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict as so many people seem to believe.
Wow, your post is quite a contradiction. First you say “My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over” then you say “I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict”.
Are you saying repeated behavioral responses in the past are not predictive?
BNaylor
12-11-2008, 10:11 AM
A few bad apples does not spoil the bunch. And yes while we New Yorkers get hated and I agree some do really stupid things, not all are like that. And certainly its not as bad living here in the city as some may say.
We will deem you as the exception and not the rule Dave. :biggrin:
BTW - I'll be up in your neck of the woods in May.
We will deem you as the exception and not the rule Dave. :biggrin:
BTW - I'll be up in your neck of the woods in May.
fredjacksonsan
12-12-2008, 10:59 AM
A few bad apples does not spoil the bunch. And yes while we New Yorkers get hated and I agree some do really stupid things, not all are like that. And certainly its not as bad living here in the city as some may say.
I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.
TS
I have to take the bait...so it's management's fault for not handling the crowd that the man died? Basic human decency wasn't in evidence. Since when is it more important to get a bargain than to take care of someone being trampled?
Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I'm not going to be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.
Animals.
I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.
TS
I have to take the bait...so it's management's fault for not handling the crowd that the man died? Basic human decency wasn't in evidence. Since when is it more important to get a bargain than to take care of someone being trampled?
Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I'm not going to be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.
Animals.
fredjacksonsan
12-12-2008, 11:01 AM
A few bad apples does not spoil the bunch. And yes while we New Yorkers get hated and I agree some do really stupid things, not all are like that. And certainly its not as bad living here in the city as some may say.
I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.
TS
I have to take the bait...so it's management's fault for not handling the crowd that the man died? It's the crowd mentality - basic human decency wasn't in evidence. Since when is it more important to get a bargain than to take care of someone being trampled?
Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I might not be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.
I didn't see anyone on TV saying they'd tried to help the guy. Animals.
I live 2 miles away from Valley Stream and even on non-busy holiday promotional events like Black Friday does that place get too crowded and weird. Best Buy had as much people at its doors and yet they had the smarts to properly manage the entrance and keep it under control. The management of the place should have known better.
TS
I have to take the bait...so it's management's fault for not handling the crowd that the man died? It's the crowd mentality - basic human decency wasn't in evidence. Since when is it more important to get a bargain than to take care of someone being trampled?
Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I might not be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.
I didn't see anyone on TV saying they'd tried to help the guy. Animals.
YogsVR4
12-12-2008, 04:26 PM
Wow, your post is quite a contradiction. First you say “My guess, this isn't the first time that multitudes of stores had people barge their way in. I aslo bet this isn't the first time someone has has gottne run over” then you say “I don't believe the situation was as easy to predict”.
Are you saying repeated behavioral responses in the past are not predictive?
I'm sorry, I didn't make my post clear enough. I meant nobody was predicting that a person will be trapmpled to death. Sure people have pushed their way into stores, concerts, parks and a million other places. Sure people have been knocked down by these louts, but does that mean death is the predictible outcome? If thats the case, I'd presme there would be a lot more trampelling deaths out there. A quick look at wiki didn't even rate it so it sits less then .06% of deaths.
I stand by my assertion that a pushy crowd could be predicted - death wasn't a resonable prediction.
Are you saying repeated behavioral responses in the past are not predictive?
I'm sorry, I didn't make my post clear enough. I meant nobody was predicting that a person will be trapmpled to death. Sure people have pushed their way into stores, concerts, parks and a million other places. Sure people have been knocked down by these louts, but does that mean death is the predictible outcome? If thats the case, I'd presme there would be a lot more trampelling deaths out there. A quick look at wiki didn't even rate it so it sits less then .06% of deaths.
I stand by my assertion that a pushy crowd could be predicted - death wasn't a resonable prediction.
twospirits
12-12-2008, 10:57 PM
I have to take the bait...so it's management's fault for not handling the crowd that the man died? It's the crowd mentality - basic human decency wasn't in evidence. Since when is it more important to get a bargain than to take care of someone being trampled?
Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I might not be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.
I didn't see anyone on TV saying they'd tried to help the guy. Animals.While I agree that the crowd were acting like wild animals, my point is that this has happened before and at the same location with the exception of a death happening this time around. And if I am not mistaken it happened last year, so with that being so fresh in the mond of some, its only logical that they take steps so that it does not happen again, but as we can see it did and with tragic results. This is why I say that management should have known better.
TS out
Although....if I'm at the door and there's a couple hundred people pushing from behind, I might not be able to stop and help someone that got knocked over.
I didn't see anyone on TV saying they'd tried to help the guy. Animals.While I agree that the crowd were acting like wild animals, my point is that this has happened before and at the same location with the exception of a death happening this time around. And if I am not mistaken it happened last year, so with that being so fresh in the mond of some, its only logical that they take steps so that it does not happen again, but as we can see it did and with tragic results. This is why I say that management should have known better.
TS out
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