96 Jimmy Engine trouble, Opinions!

I am new here and now I ask for your opinions as I am desperate for answers and suggestion's, this will be a long entry sorry!

OK I bought a 96 jimmy with 280000km back in march and in June i decided to go and get an oil change at Mr. Lube, well they tell me that I should get a Engine flush as well to get rid of some of the buildup, so I tell them to go ahead and do the chemical flush. The job was completed all done!

I decided to go shopping and on my way home the engine over heated so I pulled into a gas station and discover that I am out of coolant, I go in an grab a 4 L jug of premix and poured it in still not full (how big is the reservoir) so I grab another 4 L start it up and I will not cool down, again my coolant is down I grab another jug and still not full!:screwy: I now start checking everything and oh boy there is a buttery colored/textured substance in with my oil, I am told that coolant is mixing with my oil not good! This happened after driving 20km from my visit at Mr. Lube:confused:

So I tow it back to my place, my friend says that I may have blown my head gaskets and that he can replace them he has done them in his Grand AM. We discovered that with the oil drained and the plug off by pouring coolant into the rad and the engine off 30 seconds later the coolant pours right out of the oil pan!:angryfire Great now I may have a cracked block!

So here is my situation I am on a tight budget as I have a newborn child and as I see it these are my only options.

1) Used engine 50000km private sale no warranty, not installed in a vehicle now! $450.00 + $200.00 to have a buddy to install plus cost of tow.
2) used engine 180000km 1 yr warranty with install $1400.00 plus cost of tow.
3) New rebuilt engine $1350.00 3 yr warranty $900.00 install free towing
4) scrap the truck and find another beater.

just to note that about two weeks before it broke down I just put 4 brand new tires and a brand new alternator not rebuilt, new heater core and a security system!

So does anyone who may have been in my shoes, have any opinions as to which route I should go? Cause I am at a loss and running out of time!

Thanks

If you want my vote, go with 3 or 4. I would not trust a used engine, as you never know what you are getting.

If you don't know who did the rebuild in option 3, I'd be very careful there too.

You can probably do something with the tires and the security system if you go with item 4.

Hope this helps. Good luck

Engine flush is a big NO No on a high mileage engine.

As far as coolant leaking into the oil it may just be a intake manifold gasket.

Was the engine in very good shape before the engine flush and coolant leak and how hot did you get it?

Yeah my buddy slapped me for getting the flush. As for condition of the engine well there was now warning lights poping up while i had the truck running and it did run smooth but probibly run down a bit, when it started to overheat I pulled over it only once got into the red and that was for only about a min while I was parking!

MT has a very good point. Your Buddy needs to see if the gaskets are leaking before yanking the engine out. Coolant leaking into Oil pan that fast would almost have to come from a bad gasket, either the Intake manifold or a blown head gasket.

So a paper thin gasket could cause the coolant to pour out that fast (Like pouring pop from a bottle) we thought that it must be a crack in the block for it to come out that fast. So maybe we should tear it apart to check the gaskets? while we are doing this is there anything that we should look for other signs of other problems.

Again Thanks

You are not dealing with paper thin gaskets. both the intake and head gaskets are thick gaskets and more than likely eaten away by the flush/Dexcool. so It would be worth your while to tear the intake manifold and/or the heads off and inspect. But before you even go that far, you might try getting a radiator pressure tester and pump up the cooling system and see if anything leaks around the Intake manifold. You won't see an internal leak this way, but I seriously think a quick teardown might just reveal the smoking gun. My 2001 S10 intake manifold gaskets literly come out in small pieces as well as eating holes into the intake manifold itself.

I have not had good luck with either used or rebuilt engines. You will be a lot better off fixing your own engine if the gaskets are the culprit.

Engine flush is a big NO No on a high mileage engine.

I have heard this from so many people now, why dosen't such a big company like Mr. Lube know this?:loser:

Anyways does anyone know of a good engine tear down manual for the 4.3 V6 engine I have an Haynes manual but not so detailed.

also what should I use to clean out any of the left over coolant

Thanks, you guys have given me some hope!

They do or should know it but they're in the business to do whatever you'll pay them to do.

One other thing you can do to rule out head gaskets is a compression test on each cylinder. You might be able to borrow or rent a compression tester from you local parts store. What you will do is remove each spark plug one at a time and put the compression tester into the spark plug hole. I would suggest you remove the coil wire so the engine doesn't start, Then Crank the engine over with the starter. Record each pressure reading on a piece of paper. You should have consistent readings from each cylinder. If one cylinder is significantly lower than the others, usually means there is a compression leak.

I have heard this from so many people now, why dosen't such a big company like Mr. Lube know this?:loser:

Anyways does anyone know of a good engine tear down manual for the 4.3 V6 engine I have an Haynes manual but not so detailed.

also what should I use to clean out any of the left over coolant

Thanks, you guys have given me some hope!


The fast quckie lubes are in it for the bucks not the damage they do to engine.

Motors or chilton manuals and repair CD's have engine repair info.
Most Public libarys have car repar info and some are online.
E Bay may have some factory repair manuals.

Or A All Data online repair info DIY sub.
http://www.alldata.com/products/diy/index.html

On your it may be just the intake gasket.
Remove intake without draining c coolant and look at gasket and check if coolant level is just below intake ports.
If so it is just intake.

On getting old coolant/oil out of engine drain oil and change filter and add new oil.
After engine is back together and running warm it up good and the drain oil and replace oil and oil filter again.
Good Luck

My 2001 S10 intake manifold gaskets literly come out in small pieces as well as eating holes into the intake manifold itself.
.

What are you meaning by this?

What are you meaning by this?

It means that when the intake manifold was removed, the gaskets were broken, split, cracked, leaking, and came out in pieces. The Dexcool had eaten into the aluminum intake manifold, almost to the point of ruining the sealing surface.

Junk gaskets and Dexcool, thanx GM,

I'll bet they're wondering why their stock is in the toilet.

Any suggestions as to who makes good quailty gaskets?

Any suggestions as to who makes good quailty gaskets?

Fel-Pro. Available at many different Auto Parts stores.

It means that when the intake manifold was removed, the gaskets were broken, split, cracked, leaking, and came out in pieces. The Dexcool had eaten into the aluminum intake manifold, almost to the point of ruining the sealing surface.

Junk gaskets and Dexcool, thanx GM,

I'll bet they're wondering why their stock is in the toilet.

Wow!!!

I know how bad Dex blows... but are you sure it eroded the aluminum??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

That is really hard to see...

Wow!!!

I know how bad Dex blows... but are you sure it eroded the aluminum??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

That is really hard to see...

If it wasn't for JB WELD, I would have had to buy a new intake manifold.:grinyes:

So I dug in and decided to investigate myself, and the resaults are in!
Still think its the gaskets?:confused:

These three came right off when I lifted the manifold, they are from the front of the manifold!
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03596.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03598.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03597.jpg

These are the top of the block
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03595.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03589.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03594.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03593.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03592.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03591.jpg

And these are of the bottom of the manifold
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03584.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03588.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03587.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03585.jpg

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03586.jpg

Also I have found the gasket sets that I need and there are two

this one http://207.97.221.207/part-source.ca/item.wws?sku=MS95817&itempk=59610&mfr=FELPRO&weight=5

or this one http://207.97.221.207/part-source.ca/item.wws?sku=MS98002T&itempk=59611&mfr=FELPRO&weight=5

It does not state the spects and I would assume that the one that is 50 dollars more is better, but is it worth it?

also what is the best way to clean/treat the inside of the motor to get rid of any further traces of coolant, then to prepare to fire it up once everything is back in place.

Thanks in advance!

It looks like the only diff between the gasket sets is the rocker arm covers/valve covers gaskets. It also looks like you are shopping somewhere expensive. My local autozone has the same sets for much less.
MS95817 $40.99
MS98002T $83.99
They also have the complete head set (HS9354PT-6 $62.99) which includes everything the more expensive set has, and the stuff to do the head gaskets and valve seals.

I live in toronto canada it seems like the fair price here as Canadian Tire and Partssource have the same prices only off by a buck or two!

And yeah my bad I misread the two they are different sets, Should I just take care of the manifold, or should I do the manifold and valve covers too since I'm there?

Wow! Great Pic's. I don't think there is any doubt about the gaskets being bad. I would clean up and replace as many gaskets as I could. If you don't have the new one's installed yet, post up a picture of a new gasket next to one of the old ones.

I have to wonder if the coolant was tested annually for TSS, TDS, pH, and concentration, or replaced on schedule.

I have many vehicles running DexCool with well over 100K and well over 10 years with no problems like that. I even converted my '86 specifically because I was tired of replacing heater cores every three years due to the lack of corrosion protection from silicated coolant.

If you are going to go with the more expensive set you might want to check into the head set. As I said, it comes with everything the more expensive set does and then some, but is typically priced less.

As far as doing the covers, if they aren't leaking I wouldn't worry about them, but if they are, then why not.

Well without taking out the engine as I don't have anywhere decent to work, without towing, I think that I am going to just do the manifold, valve covers and the upper plenum stuff. Ill Post pictures of the comparision between old and new. plus since I'm there I think I change plugs and wires while I am there.

But as to cleaning up the inside of the engine what is my best bet?

Should I just flush the oil a few times or what, I need to get out all the traces of the coolant!

Again thanks

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03584.jpg


http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp204/humveeluvr/My%20Ride/DSC03587.jpg


Ok need some more assistance here! in the pictures above there is a hose that you can see on the left going into the manifold it is aluminum and has a heat shield on it, what is this hose called and for, the bolt holding it into the manifold is seized and I can't get it off and I have tried everything wd40 soak, 22mm wrench, vice grips, heating the area and now I have a stripped bolt. I can't get into the right side of the block to remove the bottom part of the hose.

The reason I want to get the hose off is to be able to move the manifold to an area where I can really get it clean, should I...

Just leave it alone and just clean it as much as I can with out taking it off
or
keep trying to remove it?

A friend has suggested cutting it midway and joining it with a high pressure fitting? is this possible?

Again thanks

Anyone, just need to know what the hose is call and for so i can order the new one!

ok so I had to cut the hose and ended up heating up the intake manifold using a torch and line wrench and was finally able to get the bolt off, it appears that someone has taken this off before and put it on cross threaded so now the threads are gone! This engine has had some rough time with a previous owner, the more I investigate, like instead of buying a new part that was cracked they just repaired it with caulking, and I don't think that the person who took the manifold off before used a tourqe wrench and the proper settings to bolt them down. So now it apperars that I will need to get a used intake manifold and upper plenum housing and EGR hose.

I just got the valve covers off and started to clean up the area, now I just need to wait for a nice day on the weekend to get to the scrappers to see if I can score my much needed parts!

I just did my intake gaskets not long ago as well. You are best off to get another manifold from the scrapyard. Give it a good lookover before you use it but you should be able to spot any problems. These manifolds don't require much torque and have a very specific 3 step sequence as well. Good luck!

Forgive me if I overlooked reading these posts but I didn't see anywhere where you said you did a compression test, I wouldn't go any further until you did. You very well might have a blown head gasket too and going through all that work and have it done would not be good. That engine inside looks like crap and If I was doing it I might even go as far as to buy the complete gasket kit and to do the heads too anyway. They would benefit from taking them off and spraying them down at the car wash and cleaning all the moving parts. I hate to say this But I problably would go one step further and remove the oil pan and spray that down too. This is what Id do If I tore into that engine as long as there's to rod bearing damage.

Thanks djd99 no I did not do a compression test, but I was thinking to do the headgaskets as well since I have gone this far. what do you recommend cleaning out the engine with other then cheap oil flushing it through a few times.

Also has anyone ever taken off the EGR valve off and know the best way to get at it as it is in a pretty tight spot?

Thanks

I don't disagree that doing more would be better, I personally would stop sinking money into that particular engine. I would clean it best I could and get it back together. You are never gonna get all that crud out without clogging oil passages and such. Your best hope is to use compressed air and blow out all the moisture and then put it back together. If it was meant to be it will run. Otherwise, I would get a replacement engine with much lower mileage. That engine you have has been neglected and simply refreshing gaskets is not going to make up for the mechanical wear. This is, of course, purely my opinion. If I opened my engine up and it looked like that I would rebuild it (if money allowed it). But I realize that funds could be tight. You are going to need to remove the exhaust to change the headgaskets and that is a whole new world of pain when you find all the bolts rusted. These trucks should come with a warning that they are very high maintenance and parts are not cheap as well (especially in Canada).

Another final comment that needs consideration when making your decission on giving up on this engine ...

Your initial problem of coolant in the oil can lead to irepairable damage. In a short period of running time the main bearings can be damaged beyond repair especially of an engine with this high mileage. You will not know until all the gasket work is done and you try to start the engine ... heavy knocking sounds that won't go away.

This is exactly what happened to me with the same 4.3 engine. I had an intake manifold coolant leak ... really minor one and took it to the dealer to be repaired. I had no coolant in my oil. They fixed it but not correctly and dumped a pile of coolant in the oil and destroyed the main bearings on a test drive. I needed a replacement engine which has lasted for a couple years now. This all happened at 230K. I'd go for the replacement engine or a new beater ...

Thanks djd99 no I did not do a compression test, but I was thinking to do the headgaskets as well since I have gone this far. what do you recommend cleaning out the engine with other then cheap oil flushing it through a few times.

Also has anyone ever taken off the EGR valve off and know the best way to get at it as it is in a pretty tight spot?

Thanks

If you want my honest opinion I would call the local junk yards and see if you could find a low mileage take out. I think by the time you spent trying to get that monster clean, it still may not be enough. I had a similar engine problem for a costumer and found a new take out with 1,000 miles on it for $900 with a 3 year warranty. I would look around and see what's available first and possibly save you a big headache and time. At least make some phone calls and you might be pleasantly surprised.

I had already researched that option and they quoted me $980 with 240K no warranty or $270 for three years warranty, or a rebuilt for $2200 installed, I figure that by the time my friends and I get it up and running it will only have cost me about $450 including some specialty tools needed. hopfully this will be completed in about a month with the warmer weather finally coming.

Again I thank you for all you suggestions and input but as it stands I am gonna go through with just repairing It myself I need to save as much money at this time!

All I have to add is do yourself a favor and leave the heads on and don't go nuts trying to clean it out. You'll cause more harm than any possible good. Get as much if hte visible gunk off as you can and clean what you can see. Install the intake and it should run. You'll know pretty quickly if the bottom end didn't survive, but I'd say it most likely did. Motor flushes and and flush in general are a very bad idea. They always cause ALOT more trouble than they claim they can fix. Chemical flushes should be banned if you ask me, they are almost never used properly.