sway bar upgrades

I want to upgrade my suspension and stiffen it up a bit... across the board.

I'm putting the Si rear disc brakes and suspension on my car, which means I'll have mount points for a rear sway bar...

I don't hella drive.. but I don't like body roll either... I want to replace the front and rear bars with something better, but I don't know what to use... any suggestions?

BTW, I'm using Espelir Progressive 50mm static drop springs, and I definitely don't want any issues with rockers rubbing... I want my car to feel like it's laying flat on the corners, regardless of over/understeer.. I can adjust my operation for that...

So... suggestions? Shoot!

P.S. Obviously, you can't ride stock flaps on a 50mm drop... meaning that they'll be up for sale... Tony and Frodo get first dibs, since I believe I told them both awhile back that I'd look into some for them.

If they don't want them, they're up for the highest bidder + shipping.

Front and rear? Oh hell yes im in! I missed out on a set for 25 a few month ago and im kicking myself.

Oh btw as for simple sways. DA bars front and rear. Keeps a decent balance, but are stiffer than the stock civic pieces since they were meant for a heavier car. No welding or anything required for mine, I just flipped the LCAs around and swapped the chassis mounts on the bar to match the tow hook bolt pattern. Also the front will bolt right up.

Way cheaper than spending 300+ on ST bars or tanabe bars.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1894834

Going from a car with NO sway bars to these was like driving the car for the first time again.

So... will DC2 Integra bars fit? or umm... anything else... maybe just slightly stiffer than the DA bars? ;)

Nope, dc bars wont fit at all. Not that they are any stiffer than the DA bars.. I dont think they would just keep making them bigger.

Well, I wondered, since the DC's are heavier... so yeah.

So.. umm.. if I use the DA bars, and lower my car 2 inches on progressive springs, do you think it would lay pretty much flat around corners? I'm also preloading the springs after I lower the car to about 100lbs per corner, which will take up the initial slack that most street springs and shocks have. (Gives a faster response time to driver input, makes the car more nimble and responsive.)

After I lower the car, should I have the alignment reset to stock specs? Or is there something that will work better for me w/o wearing my tires up...

You can run about 1.5-2 deg of camber up front and 1.5 in the rear, that seems to be the general happy medium for camber.

Also I think it will lay completely flat. I don't think the preload is really necessary at all, maybe overkill and just asking for a twitchy car but play with it and see what you like.

Well, I'll have DA bars come next weekend then. I'll just have the kid that I'm trading the ZC to get them from his local, and throw them into the trade.

So, I need the DA sway mounts and endlinks too, right?

For the rear, yes, for the front no. You will need end links for the front if you dont have them already, but the civic chassis mounts are slightly different tha nthe DA and you need them, the bushings will fit in them though with no problem..the only difference is the inner diameter (sway bar size).

For the rear, if you dont have rear sway bar mounting locations on the body you have a couple options. Use the tow hook poits to make plates and weld the mounts to the plate, or do what I did. Flip the control arms left to right, flip the sway mounts left to right and bolt it to the hook location. Done.

Well, I have a front swaybar... I'm pretty sure all sedans do... I don't have a rear, as yet... dunno if I have provisions for a rear or not, only way I would is if the EX or LX had one stock... b/c they used the same chassis pans... but I don't think either did.

I'll have to figure that part out. My rear tow hooks are already gone, I removed them b/c I never use them. I can pretty much put anything there that I need, I just have to be careful that it won't interfere w/ my jew'd exhaust and my class 2 hitch... The exhaust is getting changed eventually, but not until I get a 8gal fuel cell that fits in the spare tire well, and is DOT approved.. then the exhaust gets re-routed to come out the side of the car.

I'll have him get the mounts and endlinks for me anyway, it won't cost anything more, and I can probably use them for something in the future.

SO, I'm guessing from checking links on the subject that my car won't have the holes threaded, they'll just be popped holes in the subframe... with no welded in nuts. Easy fix: Weld in nuts. I'm not making a plate or anything, I'll just wait until I get the hardware that I need from an Si and use it... keep it as stock as possible.

This car is pretty much my guinea pig for how far I can hybridize it and make it look like it came that way... I'll take as long as I need to learn how to do it right on the next attempt.

BTW... wtf do I do w/ a A6 w/ 92k on it? The kid w/ the rims flaked on me.

Forget the hole, threaded or not. I used the more than sturdy tow hook holes.

Didnt have to weld a damn thing lol. I did have to drill out the mount brackets from 10mm to 12mm though, but that took..oh..about 2 min total.

BTW... wtf do I do w/ a A6 w/ 92k on it? The kid w/ the rims flaked on me.

D17 stroker?

Now that I think about it (also whoring a triple post..im on a roll) the 4d may have those hooks a bit farther away than the hatch does, but its def worth a shot.

Well if his hitch is like mine, its taking up the tow hook spots...if its not, I have no idea where he hooked it to and why.

I will need to source up some front sway bar stuff at some point, just realized the black ED has no sway bars and rocks like a damn boat. I haven't got to drive it yet, just finally got an engine sitting in it and spindles swapped so it can roll again.

My hitch actually just bolts through the rear sub-frame, it will end up being carriage bolts in the trunk floor, which of course will have a plate over the sheet metal.

I opted to do it this way b/c It'll spread the weight load over a larger area than just making a longer plate to bolt it up to the tow hooks... which are about 2 feet from the end of my bumper... that would be some serious leverage on those three little bolts if I put a util trailer on the hitch.

The sedan's "foot longer-ness" comes after the complete suspension, including the tow hook mounting points. They're in the same place from EF to EF, but on the sedan, they're further in than on other EF's, b/c of the trunk.

As far as the A6 motor, I'm not sure what I'll do with it... probably build a stroker and put it on something other than a Honda. like a Go-Kart.

Uber-fuckin' Pimp.

The way we did mine was we cut the stock tow hooks to give us a flat surface to weld to, because the hitch I had gotten wasn't wide enough we used 3" angle iron to extend the ends of it, and then welded the angle to the tow hooks(with gussets ofcourse).

As far as worrying about the weight on those "3 little holes", I wouldn't worry about it. They are tow hooks and just one side can withstand the weight of the car plug a lot extra...add the other side to that and your set....plus they are in the hat rails under the car.

I had originally thought about doing it your way, but this was much easier, and I don't need my tow hooks anymore as long as the hitch is on the car because it has hooks.

Yes, those locations are capable of withstanding that load in a shear fashion.. they're not meant to have pressure put on them vertically though.

Add about 350lbs to a 2 foot lever whose fulcrum happens to be that mount point, and something bad could happen.

Thats' why I'm doing it the way I am, not to mention that if I put the hitch all the way back on the tow hooks, I'd have to extend the mounts even more so that the receiver would stick out far enough to actually haul anything.

I wasn't concerned about looks, so we just rough-welded everything together w/ 10k lb sticks and 1/4" plate... had to drop the main bar 4" from the mount, so we added in a 2x4x1/4 plate on each side, and took 4.5 inches off each side of the original hitch, bringing it 8.5 inches closer end to end (1/4" plates) and 4" lower than original, to make up for the trunk pan.

I'm going to keep using this one until I get near a tubing bender again, then I'll actually make one, and get it certified.. 2" tube w/ mandrel bends and slide-in mounts so it's easily removable if necessary, 2" Square w/ re-enforcement tabs welded at the middle with lock rings and gussets, and you've got a class 3 hitch.

Ok so then your fine.

Ok so then your fine.

Pretty much, yeah. lol

I'm waiting on a reply from that kid about the sway bars... he'll probably email me back tomorrow... I'm supposed to meet him this weekend for the trade.

I may also have that A6 sold, since some other guy just bought a CRX Si w/ a HF motor in it lol.

Told him to get me a B18/B20 or give me $300 for it, no intake, no header. $400 w/ the intake and header. or $200 and his old engine for it, cuz I can use the HF motor for other stuff.

cuz I can use the HF motor for other stuff.

Like holding a door open..

Lol... nah, I can use it for a generator/compressor motor for my dad.. since it makes it's peak torque so low in the RPM range, it will be perfect for a generator which doesn't need to spin that fast to make it's power... it will also be perfect for a compressor, since it's go so much torque compared to a standard 2 cylinder engine, and it will work in it's peak torque range which is less than half of the redline of the engine.


It just never made sense to use it as a car motor... they could have easily used the D15B1/2 and added the HF injection on it.

Yes, those locations are capable of withstanding that load in a shear fashion.. they're not meant to have pressure put on them vertically though.

Add about 350lbs to a 2 foot lever whose fulcrum happens to be that mount point, and something bad could happen.

Thats' why I'm doing it the way I am, not to mention that if I put the hitch all the way back on the tow hooks, I'd have to extend the mounts even more so that the receiver would stick out far enough to actually haul anything.

I wasn't concerned about looks, so we just rough-welded everything together w/ 10k lb sticks and 1/4" plate... had to drop the main bar 4" from the mount, so we added in a 2x4x1/4 plate on each side, and took 4.5 inches off each side of the original hitch, bringing it 8.5 inches closer end to end (1/4" plates) and 4" lower than original, to make up for the trunk pan.

I'm going to keep using this one until I get near a tubing bender again, then I'll actually make one, and get it certified.. 2" tube w/ mandrel bends and slide-in mounts so it's easily removable if necessary, 2" Square w/ re-enforcement tabs welded at the middle with lock rings and gussets, and you've got a class 3 hitch.

Well I understand it since your hooks are a little further back, but seriously, the bracing that is in those 3 bolt holes will withstand whatever you want to put on it....unless your just trying to break the damn thing. Hell that little crappy hook in the middle, you know the one on the spare tire well? It can withstand a hell of a lot more than I would have thought, its what I hooked to to tow a 1 ton truck...I did expect it to be bent some afterwards, but it was perfectly fine. Have a little more faith in these things...I'm here to test the shit out in ways they were never meant to be tested.

Trust me... you're not beating your car like I do. I push trucks around with my bumpers... I haul engines in my trunk, I've used my car to haul materials, supplies, furniture, I've used it as a moving van 3 times, I race it, I drive 1000 miles a week or more at times, I've used it to drag logs up the road at my dad's house (using that puny hook in the middle, which is why I removed the other two... didn't need them.)

I'm well aware of what our cars are capable of, given a capable operator... (I say operator b/c "drivers" don't do to their cars what you and I do.)

I also understand what forces things were designed to take, and try desperately not to introduce stresses that they weren't designed for, unless necessary. (Oh yeah, it gets necessary sometimes.)

The coolest thing I've ever done with my car is pulled a Cat 450 w/ a K19 Roadmaster tranny attached to it... used a block and pulley, put a 3,000 lb chain through it, and attached it to the motor/tranny on the frame, hooked three pieces of chain to the other end, using a large 1,500 lb test "unilink" (some people call them monkey links, they're a link w/ a screw closure on them). We then bolted the 3 chain ends to the car

One to each stock bumper tie-in at the rear of the car, using plates that we made in about 15 mins each, and one to the puny tow hook in the middle. This was to help evenly distribute the force across the whole rear end of the car... we were hoping that either it would come up, or the whole back of the car would come off, in which case we'd just weld a CRX ass on it, and laugh like drunken idiots.

In all seriousness, I didn't think it was going to come up for a sec... but as soon as I got enough balls to just give it some gas and slip the clutch slightly, it went... up, up, up. Moved the frame out of the way, and brought the dolly over while it was being held up by my brakes, then I just started to let off the brakes to lower it into place.

All in all, it was awesome. But I don't think I'd do it that way again.

In hindsight, it doesn't seem nearly as safe as it could have been.