clutch problem

hi everyone. i'm so confused right now. i dropped a stock motor in my 89 civic lx because the old one threw a timing belt on the freeway at 80mph. anyway thanks to those that helped me with that post.

i've been driving my car for about 2 months with the newer engine. i also installed a brand new fly wheel and clutch. (pilot bearing too). both bought at napa.

today i drove to a liquor store for a bbq i was at. and when i got back in my car the damn clutch would not release at all. i could not get it into gear. i pulled the battery to make room for my hand and manually adjusted the clutch to release. i had a friend push the clutch in and out as i adjusted it to get the car rolling in gear clutch depressed. barely got me back. the clutch slipped soooo bad. so then i turn it back to how it was and the damn clutch worked fine. as it did before. 2hrs later i get back in thinking it is all good again (still confused as to why) and it does it again but to a lesser degree. i could get it into gear with a clunk! and i could see the rpm drag down a few hundred.

as i'm driving the shifting becomes smoother and once again its fine again. this time was after i returned the clutch adjustment back to how it was before the problem.

the only thing i've done today was adjust my timing belt i had it a tooth advanced and it didnt pass smog (visual timing failed). i took the plate that covers the flywheel off to lock up the fly wheel during the pulley bolt removal and install. i dont understand what could be causing and changing it to be ok, then bad then ok.

has there ever been a problem with the napa clutch parts? bearings? i have no idea.

thank you all. i'm going to bed to rest my head. made a great night terrible. i just sold my only other car.

Well, there are a few things that would cause this:

1. You let the transmission hang in the clutch plate, and it bent the thin metal in it.

2. You're pushing too far down on the clutch pedal... next time it does it, try leaving off the pedal a bit, and see if it goes into/out of gear more smoothly... the reason for this is that some manufacturers don't understand that the OEM spec was just fine... they make the pressure plate with more leverage, they make the clutch disc thicker, etc... and it leads up to the thing having to be adjusted improperly with too much or too little free play for it to operate even half-assed correctly.

The latter was the problem I had getting a stage 3 clutch from eBay... the clutch was great, grabbed hard, etc. but it took almost 3 hours of adjusting the damn thing back and forth to figure out that it wouldn't work correctly if we pushed the clutch all the way down, so we adjusted it with too much free-play in the pedal until it was broken in (about 1000 miles later we adjusted it again.)

If you were slipping the clutch alot when you had it adjusted really far out, you may have overheated it and warped/cracked the face too, meaning that it needs to be replaced... ASAP. The clutch face, if cracked, will explode at the worst possible time, leaving you in buttfuckville with no condoms at 3 am. :D

Basically, adjust it all the way out, so the pedal does not actuate it at all... then, while a friend is in the car, start adjusting it in until you get it to half pedal to start working the clutch arm... after that, have your friend start the engine and start working the clutch while trying to put it in gear (use only first and second... never reverse.)

If it won't go in, adjust the screw another full turn, until it goes into gear hard with the pedal all the way down... then start going 1/2 turns of the screw until it goes in easy as pie.. the first time it goes in easy, like it should, and doesn't drag down the engine, adjust the screw one more full turn, to set the clutch pedal "free play" (this is the distance that the pedal should move before actuating the clutch.) After this, you're done.. you shouldn't have to readjust it for at least 40-50k miles, and I've had friends put about 60-70k on them and haven't had to readjust them yet.

i had it adjusted perfect after that time i mentioned. yesterday i'm driving around its the clutch is perfect, i hit some water turning and the right tire peeled out and the clutch all of a sudden started releasing at the very bottom of the pedal and the gears were hard to get in and out. so it was easier shifting with out it matching rpm. although its easier in a big truck i'm really good at it in the car.

i have no idea what caused it to go out of alignment this time. i found a used si tranny i'm gonna throw in it. so i'll replace the pressure plate when i do.

i never had the tranny hanging on the pressure plate i had the engine on the lift and the tranny on blocks of wood and slid them together with help.

is it possible something is wrong with the clutch cable.? i cant think of anything.

oh and when i drove it back the first time and it slipped i didnt let it slip the whole way. i felt it at first and adjusted my acceleration.

edit:
the other thing i remember is my tranny has a bearing noise. if i have the car running and push the clutch (this was even before i swapped motors) the noise goes away. is it possible the input shaft has too much play and that is causing this headache of mine?

i hope i never get stuck in buttfucksville with out condoms. :grinno:

i laughed so hard i should have shit myself when i read that.


thanks for your help.

adjusting your acceleration doesn't mean that it stopped slipping.. it was still turning at a non-consistent speed with the pressure plate/flywheel assembly, and therefore may have worn or heated.

Check to see that the cable is installed correctly, that there is nothing blocking it's path, or disturbing it. Check that the transmission's Clutch release arm isn't loose/worn. Check to ensure that all parts are moving freely and without binding, etc.

Other than that, it's in the transmission. My guess would be differential gears.

as far as matching RPM... I couldn't tell you anything about it... :wink:

I don't use my clutch pedal other than taking off or stopping... unless I'm racing... that includes upshifting and downshifting, even when I'm downshifting to accelerate.

alright. i'll check the clutch linkage today.

i dont know if its in the tranny completely. i can still turn the cable and get it into gear perfectly. i did notice when i installed it and filled it with the honda mtf the tranny was exceptionally smooth, then first gear started to get harder to put in like it was before hand. always hand to go into second to get it into first before coming to a complete stop.

on monday i'll have the tranny. buy the pressure plate and start crankin away. im glad i did all the previous work. i'm getting to know the car so well i could be blind folded for alot of this shit.

i think i'll replace the clutch cable since i've seen them from 20-40 bux. thats not bad.

thanks again dude

np

You should look at a pic of the clutch cable and check that all the little rubber bushings and the zinc end and metal washer are there... look at the pic, you'll see what I mean.

clutch linkage is my guess at this point. i drove my car to band practice and the clutch was damn near useless, then when i got off the freeway it was completely useless. its the linkage. the clutch is not slipping. its just not disengaging any longer. so now i'm in first gear starting my car with the pedal in just to kick in the starter. once i'm driving its the same speed shifting.

so i havta drop the tranny. damnit. and worse of all the used Si tranny is gone. the guy called me telling me another person was gonna by the motor and tranny. i didnt want the engine and he doesnt give a shit. first come first serve he told me. after we had agreed on monday. i dont know if its the fork or the throw out bearing. but something ate shit and i havta find out soon. i also have to smog my car. i had the timing belt one tooth off and couldnt get it with in the state requirement of 2degrees within time.

fuck fuck fuck.

hey what is the easiest way to get the axle outta the car. i've tried a pickle fork and could not get the ball joints apart. i cheated and many people told me not to but i just un bolted the suspention in the tower. loosened the bolt that holds the bottom of the shock and wrestled the axle out.

my curiousity is really what is driving me crazy i just want to see what bit the dust. and driving my car like this sucks. i am antisipating lights WELL in advance. sometimes creeping my car for at least a 1/4 mile in first just to keep it rolling. its a jerky start otherwise. and i cringe, my poor car.

thanks alot drop. i cant say how much i value this forum and your advice.

thanks
dario

Easiest way to get the axle out of the car is to remove the lower ball joint, then the strut to lower control arm bolt, and swing the hub out of the way.

You almost never need to use a pickle fork to get the ball joint free on any car... just get a hammer, and smack the hub square and really hard a few times while putting pressure downward on the control arm.

Make sure you're smacking the area that the ball joint goes through, else you're wasting your energy... those ball joints are only a conical seat, nothing is actually holding them in there besides friction... if you slightly distort the area they sit in, you're sure to have a loose one immediately. Applying pressure just helps you to know when you've got it right... it will drop immediately.

You can also remove the upper ball joint, and pull the strut entirely... this will prove a PITA in most cases though.

I'm working on a deal with a guy to get an Si tranny, which I probably have no use for, nor a sale pending on... therefore, if you want to pay to ship it, I'll sell it to you. We'll work out the logistics if you want it after I actually take possession of it.

Another thing you could be looking at would be your clutch throwout bearing. It may not be the bearing itself, but it could be binding on the shaft it slides on. Did you grease the throwout bearing so it would slide smooth. I had this problem where the clutch wouldn't release and grab correctly. Sometimes it would work, other times it wouldn't. Another thing to check also would be your clutch cable. I've had mine bind on the engine side of the firewall and eventually start breaking the cable. As the cable frayes it doesn't move freely in turn making your clutch a pain to use. Just a couple other ideas.

i cleaned up the garage, well i just moved a few days ago and i had all my stuff scattered as i dug through it all and slowly put things in their new home. a now much more condensed garage full 'o' crap.

car is in the garage and i'll start disassembling tomorrow.

thanks for your help. i am going to replace the cable. its cheap and as much as its been used i think it is time for the original to retire. cheap insurance anyway i plan to keep this car till some force out of my control takes it from me. for an old car it beats all the newer non hybrid cars in fuel mileage.

thanks everyone.

dario

I just filled up today == 49 mpg, and that's not "taking it easy". In fact, right before I filled up, I raced a '94 Civic EX up a winding back road with blind corners, so I was shifting up and down alot, and keeping steady around 5k for about 7 miles. I won. That kid can't drive. This also includes moving the beginning of this week, at which time, I had a queen bed strapped to the roof of my car, and loaded down w/ about 500 lbs of shit, still doing 70+ on the highway... same tank of gas.

It's a wonder what an oil change can do... apparently, I was only getting shitty mileage b/c I hadn't changed the oil in awhile... so I no longer use "extended life" oil. Too expensive, and does nothing to benefit me.

I'm sure I could get 55mpg if I cared enough to drive like a granny all the time... but I don't. Where's my green car tax deduction? I get better mileage than even the average hybrid...

I dont know how the hell you guys get mileage like that. I rack on my car plenty and filled up to the tune of 30.9 mpg yesterday, its a y8 though. But even the b7 with dpfi only got like 31-32 with about 40% highway.

This engine was rebuilt less than 60k ago... or close to it... MPFI swap, header, 2" exhaust, stock cat, glass pack, etc. I'm running 8lb CRX wheels and half an interior tho... It wouldn't quite be that much (maybe 1-2 mpg less) if I wasn't half gutted, and didn't have the header/exhaust.

Those things help out w/ the power so much... it seems like someone kicked my car in the nuts and now it snorts coke and breathes fire! I can finally pass someone w/o taking the car out of 5th gear.

My advertisement: My 1989 Honda Civic. Now with enough horsepower to call it a go-kart!

P.S. I might soon be changing my head to a Z6, just for kicks... I"ll use the Vtec, since I already have the auto EX ecu that I can chip and use. (Auto lockup solenoid pin A8 works for Vtec.)

I'll let you know what the mileage is after that... if I do it.

P.P.S. -- My buddy used to have a HF... it got 29 MPG, and he'd had it since 1990. Never got any better or worse than that. Another friend had one that got 61mpg on a day to day basis. It's not all about the driver... no two cars are alike.

The easiest way I've seen to get the ball joint un-done is the wrench trick.

Basically, you jack up the lower control arm some, wedge the huge wrench between the lower control arm and the knuckle when it fits, then lower the jack. Pops the joint right off. It might scare you a bit though. There's a picture of it somewhere on HT.

On mileage, I've been getting close to 50 mpg on my CRX DX. My wife gets somewhere around 45-48 on her CRX Si. However, on my old Si hatch with the same engine as her's, I used to get 35 max. I'm not sure what the deal is.

I wish you luck with your clutch. It looks like I'm going to have to replace the clutch in my 90 integra soon. The Exedy stage 1 is a little tough for the average commuter, and I have to sell the integra. Too many cars for the driveway. I wish I could switch it into one of the rexes.

Thrill

Look at your lower control arm... see the flat spots on either side? Get a big fuckin' hammer. now hit it 3 or 4 times. That's what those flat spots are there for. They're "impact" gussets, designed to displace a hit in such a way that it will temporarily deform the cone shape inside the mating surface of the lower control arm, which will allow you to pull the arm down, away from the ball joint.

Temporarily, in this case, is a split second... all that is necessary to break the tension bond between the ball joint and the LCA. You can do the same w/ the upper ball joint and the tie rod too, just that they don't have the specific impact surface.

49 miles to the gallon? yeah right i just can not belive that expically if it was not "taking it easy".i couldnt get that kind of milage out of my corrola and that was the lightest car ever. 1700 something lbs with a full tank of gas and the most i ever got was like 45 and no matter how you drove it it was like it was in baby mode constantly. you must drive downhill everywhere you go with a tail wind. well anyways about the clutch. when you installed it did you tourque everything to spec. if you dont tighten the pressure plate evenly you can warp it. you never know maybe you got a defective pressure plate. when you press in the clutch pedal with the engine running can you hear any noises out of the ordaniary?

weight isn't everything, for starters... Fact is, some of the cars that got excellent gas mileage in OEM config (like escorts, f.i.) were heavy as hell... and had decent power numbers. My Escort GT had 108 HP at the flywheel, 5 speed, weighed around 2400 LBS wet and in full trim, and still got 32-40 MPG every tank. 32 was speeding, shifting at 5k, etc. (6500 redline, no clue where/if it had the fuel cut set... I'd just rev it till it didn't sound like it was going any higher... then grab the next gear.)

My father had an escort that got 44 MPG all the time, then one day, it got over 50 when he filled it up... about a week later, just as he was pulling into a gas station to fill it up again, the engine shut off... and wouldn't start again. We ended up pulling it apart... the rings were embarrassing to look at... bearings were so overly worn after 200+k miles that they were all copper, all the valves had this nasty coating on them, but all in all, the castings and the pistons were fine... it was amazing this engine still started at all though.... just goes to show, they run the best before they give you the finger!

number 2, I've never tightened the bolts on a pressure plate "evenly", other than to tighten them to "hand tight" then go back around and go one full turn each on them to seat them... never in sequence either, I just go right around the circle. I've never had a problem this way. I'm not recommending anyone else do it, but I've never had an issue. (I also don't torque too many bolts to "spec"... I use torque-angle methods to achieve proper torque patterns.)

by the way... 49 mpg wasn't an "all the time" figure... it was that tank... if you read each time I post something about gas mileage, it's different. That would be because my car almost never gets the same mileage on a weekly basis.... lately, I've been averaging about 37 MPG, about 50% highway, with "vigorous" driving... today, I made my car chirp second gear 3 times taking off into traffic from the side of the highway... (damn cell phone)