How tight should the timing chain be?

I know thier is a lot of smart members of this forum so I am asking for your help. I have 93 ATX sho and it start making knocking noise , I think from the top of the engine somewhere. These are the steps I took so far. 1- I removed the serpetine belt then ran the engine. Noise was still their.2- Then I remove the top timing belt cover and the belt looked in good shape with no slack. 3-Then I removed the vacum lines from the butterfly assemblies. I ran the engine and the noise was still their. 4-Since the car has 162,000 mile I decided to replace the Rod Bearings. It did not fix the problem but needed to be done anyway due to the milage on the car. 5. Next I decide to take of the intake and valve cover to inspect the timing chains, valve shims, and the cam lobes. at this step the timing chain that closet to the fire wall seemed loose, but I am not sure because I have not done this before. The link is below is a short video of my timing chain. Can you check out the link and tell me what you think? Is the timing chain loose or is this normal? Could this be making the noise?

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...t=100_0585.flv (http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x6/wablackwell/?action=view&current=100_0585.flv)

I'll have to take a look in the manual to see if there is a deflection spec for the chains this evening. In the mean time, did you check the valve lash to see if they need to be adjusted/shimmed? That is part of the 100k maintenance (or was it 90k?) for the ATX SHO. For the MTX, that was a 60k maintenance item if I remember correctly. A quick outline of the procedure can be found here (http://www.shotimes.com/php-bin/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0&sid=67).

-Rod

Go to http://www.ebay.com/ item 320304357690
Look at the picture of the tensioners. You can buy them separately at a parts store. You definately have to have a manual to install chain. You can try a new tensioner I never saw one that loose after replacing. Wait on specs but consider new tensioners or complete set. Check tension on the other chains I doubt they are this loose. I have found a lot of worn tensioners.

You are right the valve lash is part of the 60k service. I did not check the valve lash yet because I was planning to order the Renting shim Kit that has the tools and shims from SHoSource.com In february after I recieves my income taxes back. Would out spec valve lash cause Knocking noise from the Engine? The noise all of sudden started with out any sign or warning. But the car drive normal excpet for the noise. The other head the timing chain has no slack was so ever and is nice and tight. The only books I have is the Chilton manual and a subscription to the all data site. In the Chilton Manual I do not see the procedure for replacing the timing chain for the SHO 3.2L Engine. But I do see the procedures to replace the cams. Do I have to remove the cams to replace timing chain? Thanks Bill

The Alldata site is the same information as the factory service manual, so if the info isn't there on tension, then I probably won't be able to find it either.

If the valves are way out of adjustment I would suspect they could cause a tapping noise, but I'm not sure how load the noise is that you're trying to track down.

Having never been that deep into my previous '93 SHO engine, I don't know if the cams would have to come out to change out the chain.

-Rod

The noise is loud enough to hear while you are in the car and you are at a idle. The more RPM's the engine is running the louder it get. The car at idle I would compare to the loudnest of a small diesel engine. The engine was nice and quite then one day I knew something was wrong because the noise all sudden was in my engine. Their was no previous indicators of this problem. I was really scared that I might of lost my engine when I first heard the noise. Changing the rod bearing was a really and experiece for me and in a way I am glad that was not the problem because that could of total my engine. I hope the timing chain tensioner is the problem because even if I in paying someone to replace for me it is better than losing my engine. Even though I prefer to try to figure it out and do it myself. I know the valve be out of tolerance can make tapping noise, I believe this noise is way to loud to be that. I will be doing that sevice soon. I bough the SHO 60K video from the shonutperformance site that show step by step on how to do that service. Thanks a lot Bill

I never have done a new Ford but have done chains on Mitsubishi's and Toyota pickups. I would bet you have a broken tensioner. I never removed a camshaft to do a timing chain. You might need to use a couple of large screw drivers or a puller to remove a sprocket as they come with a set. The tensioners go against the outside of the chain. I would replace the cam seals while I was at it. A lot of Toyota pickups would go 100,000 without a valve adjustment. ( reference only) I imagine a Ford engine will also. I'm suprised most expensive vehicles use hydraulic lifters. If you look at the Escort section I have a link on valve adjustment.
As you had the cover off use a good flashlight and look down along the chain I think you will see the broken tensioner. The material wears and they wear through the center very obvious. Also remember with this much stretch the timing on this side is varying and the engine won't run properly.
P.S. I've done chains on Ford engines old style 1988 vintage.

I want to thank every on your inputs. I finally figured out how to take off the chain tensioner. I hope I did it right, I took both of the gears out to get the tensioner out. I did see any other way. Is this correct? Now when I install it back in how do I get the tension out. I know it work on hydraulics. Does tight up by it self once I start the engine? This has been a 3 week project for me. I will be glad once I get the car running again. Also, I could not get the chain out. Does the cam have to be removed to take out that part? I really do not want to do that. I was thinking about also replacing the chain too, a vendor on ebay has a brand new chain for $40. The link below is a picture of the tensioner I took out, As far as the valve adjustment that know problem, I have the a video I ought that shos step by step to do the lower and upper 60K video. Also, I know you help out a lot people on this forum. http://www.shophoenixproject.com/maint.htm This website is a great reference to refer SHO owners on alot of maintenance issues. It show Step by step with pictures on many maintenace issues including the 60k service. Thanks everyone, Bill

http://http://i184.photobucket.com/a...l/100_0588.jpg (http://http//i184.photobucket.com/albums/x6/wablackwell/100_0588.jpg)

The factory service manual doesn't specify any way to tension the chain, so apparently it's all done hydraulically when the tensioner is working. I'd suspect your tensioner is bad.

Removal

1. Set engine to TDC on No. 1 cylinder.
2. Remove intake manifold as outlined.
3. Remove timing belt and covers as outlined.
4. Remove valve covers as outlined.
5. Remove camshaft sprockets. Note location of dowel pin(s).
6. Remove upper inner timing belt cover.
7. Remove camshaft timing chain sprocket tensioner mounting bolts.
8. Remove camshaft sprocket from camshaft.

Installation

1. Align timing marks on camshaft sprockets with camshaft and install camshaft sprockets. Tighten retaining bolts to 14-18 N-m (10-13 lb-ft).
2. Install timing chain over camshaft sprockets. Align white painted link with timing mark on camshaft sprocket.
CAUTION:
LH and RH timing chain sprocket tensioners are not interchangeable.

3. Rotate camshafts approximately 60 degrees counterclockwise. Set timing chain sprocket tensioner between camshaft sprockets and position camshafts on cylinder head.
4. Position timing chain guide (6K297) and timing chain sprocket tensioner and install retaining bolts. Tighten bolts to 15-19 N-m (11-14 lb-ft).
5. Rotate camshafts 60 degrees clockwise and check for proper alignment of timing marks. Marks on timing camshaft sprockets should align with valve cover mating surface as shown.
6. Set Cam Position Tool T89P-6256-C on camshafts to ensure correct positioning. Flats on tool should align with flats on camshaft. If tool does not fit and/or timing marks will not line up, repeat procedure from Step 1.
7. Install upper inner timing belt cover. Tighten bolts to 8.8 N-m (78 lb-in).
8. Install camshaft sprockets . Tighten bolts to 21-25 N-m (15-18 lb-ft). Ensure proper installation of dowel pin(s).
9. Install timing belt and engine front covers (6019) as outlined.
10. Install valve covers. Tighten bolts to 9.8-16 N-m (7-12 lb-ft).
11. Install intake manifold as outlined.

-Rod

One of the articles was worried about the tensioner. All of the tensioners I have used have a hole in the side. Put them in a vise or use a c clamp and depress then put an allen wrench or drill bit in the hole. After it is installed use pliers and pull it out. The tension is then set correctly. I imagine either this is defective or the other part is worn and broke. You can feel the tension when closing the vise you can't push in with your fingers.
As noted make sure the timing marks are correct. A chain should be good for 100,000 but inspect closely if not replacing it at this time. Follow Ford guidelines if worried about the chain. You always install the chain before installing tensioners.

Thanks for the write up of the removal and installation. I already removed the old tensioner. It was stuck in the in position. I apply pressure to the tensure trying to push it more in and then I got it to pop back out to the position I think it normal should be in. I decided to go ahead and replace it. These are not in the ford inventory no more and I could not find a Brand new one anywhere. I found one on Ebay for $45 that came off of a 1994 SHO. The vendor claimed it to be in good condition. I should recieve some time next week. I will keep you up to date when I finish the job. Thankyou Rod and rhandwor,
Bill