1992 Accord fails CA smog test

Those mother chukers did not help at all today. They smiled and basically said, "have a nice day, gross polluter!"
Anyways here the data I played for.
RPM MEAS "" MAX GP "" MAX GP "" MAX GP ""
15mph 1819 13.9 0.3 116 291 136 0.74 2.24 1.44 791 1992 1396
25mph 2517 13.5 0.0 91 241 1617 0.62 2.12 2.22 730 1792 433
So far I’ve gave it standard tune up: oil & filter, spark plug, cap & rotter. Wire set seem to be a good shape, so they were not switch out. EGR and pipe got clean out with carb cleaner.
Other issues: its sputters going about 40 mph, tranny shift and then it goes away. I’m not able to detect any vacuum leaks and I haven’t replace the O2 sensor either.
Anyone has good clarification for me? I can use the help,
Thank you :eek7: :eek7: :eek7: :confused:

Sorry to see that you failed your smog test. You don't make it easy for us to analyze your problem by just giving us the numbers. It woud have been good to give us what they are tied to. But looking over your numbers, you failed on HC (PPM), CO (%) and NO (PPM). You say that you did some tune-up work. Was that before or after the failed smog test? HC and CO could be high because of O2 sensor and cat problems. NO is probably high because the intake ports are clogged or a bad EGR vave. There are tests which will determine if they are. Takes a vaccum pump on the EGR vaccum line to find out. While the engine is idling, pull a vaccum of 8"/H20 on the valve. The engine should stall. If it doesn't the EGR valve could be bad or you have clogged ports. You can check the valve by pulling it from the engine and pulling a vaccum on the vavle to see if it opens. If it does, the valve is operating. Then pinch the hose and turn off the pump. The vaccum should keep the valve open. If it doesn't, then you have a leak in the valve. If everything checks on the valve, then you need to open the ports in to the intakes by removing the plugs, drilling them out then capping them.

In your case, you probably went to a test only station. If that was the case, the state will authorize up to $500 if you put up the first $100 to get it fixed. To analyze the problem, it will cost you about $125. So the $500 the state puts up will be for fixing the problem. You must get authorization from the state before you do any work on the fix. Good luck.

Mpumas
My tune up was prior to smog testing. I consulted a reliable mechanic (if such a thing exist), he saw my numbers and diagnose the same as you. I guess its a process of elimination, checking for: cracks, leaks, EGR and possibly, a new cat. I’m having the my Honda look at this weekend, he is very knowledgeable with Hondas and Acura’s. Not to mention he is my cousin and works his but off to go after all the state upgrade certifications. Went to DMV paid my registration up front to avoid any late fees. I will keep you posted of the outcome.
Thanks for your input
Laloquera :screwy: :shakehead

Keep us advised of the fix.

mpumas
Well it happened again, if failed to pass smog :nono: . Swap out cat, check EGR valve. NOX went totally up. My problem is that I’m cylinder #1 Is miss firing. I've change cap&rotter, cable and threw some NGK's platinum in, did an intake carbon cleaner and still I have the miss fire issue. I’m doing a compression tomorrow. I’m I missing something?
Thanx,
Laloquera :banghead:

#1 cylinder is mis-firing. How do you know that? What are your cylinder compression numbers. Also you said you replaced the cat converter? Where did you get it? If NOX is high,you need to find out if the ports are plugged or something else is wrong with the EGR system. Did you do the tests?. What are your test numbers now?

If you go back to my first post, I told you that you are eligible for up to $500.00 from the state if you put up the first $100 to get your car fixed. Why are you not letting the state help you get it fixed?

I believe the state has suspended the program, budget issues. Cylinder #1, we pulled the cable and noticed miss fire was visible, no spark. When we pulled the other cables, the engine idle extremely rough . I’m gonna address the cylinder compression issue tomorrow morning, my cousin is moving to Maui and loaded his entire house, including all tools on shipping container heading across the pacific, “Aloha!” I check the EGR valve, ran my finger underneath and push up that valve. I’m assuming my ports are fairly clear. Sorry data NOX numbers are not available at the moment.
Laloquera :popcorn:

Ran your finger under and pushed up the valve ??? Are you sure that was the EGR valve or the PCV (valve)? How do you know the ports are clear?

If you are not getting spark on #1, are you sure the plug wire is completely pushed into the distributor cap? To check the wire, you can completely change #1 wire with #2. Just change at both ends. Compression tests are an good indicator of engine performance, so they need to be done. Valve adjustments are also a consideration.

I'll check to see if the state assistance program has been suspended. But the budget was just signed so money should not be a problem as this is funded by increased fees charged by test only participants.

You are right, the state assistance program is suspended until further notice. But the budget was signed today, so things might start to open up.


How is your tests coming along? Any new progress?

Moving along here, I’m starting to get just little annoyed. I’m going to nail this issue if it’s the last thing I do. The fallowing has already been completed and switch:
Oil & filter
Air filter
New NGK’s
Rotor & Cap
Spark plug wire set
Distributor, brand spanking new with module, cap and rotor (again).
Double check my EGR, good ports
Carbon cleaner
New Cat
Check every piston cylinder for compression, all have good compression.
Things left to complete:
Change out all four fuel injectors, suspect one them maybe shoring out.
Switch coil tower.
After all the changes that I’ve made, I’m still have a miss fire and its noticeable when I’m driving. I’m doing the power brake method and I can feel the miss fire say about 2 RPM. I’m pulling the plugs but I’m not able to tell which plug wire set is miss firing. All plugs are showing a constant firing order except when I’m driving.
I paid $180.00 for my new distributor which replace my old good distributor. I’m keeping the new one the care (peace of mind) storing my old one for some other day. Injectors are an average of $100.00 X 4 = $400.00. I’m looking at pulling my parts.
Anyone out there have any alternative ideas or diagnosis?
laloquera

How do you know the ports are clear for the high NOX. What test did you do demonstrate that? High NOX could be caused by a vacuum leak on the intake side. I see that you did not replace the O2 sensor.

Instead of shot gunning trying to find the cause, it may pay to have a diagnostic analysis for about $125.00. With an analyzer they can do things that you can't. It would be a good learning experience for you.

Fudge, fudge & double fudge! Took my car in to do an ignition diagnostic check. Could not find the cause of the miss fire, I’m going backward on this issue. Tech folks went to Honda message board to conclude, they saw that other shops are coming across this very same problem with 1992 accords with over 200k miles on them. They recommend to clear out the ports by drilling out those metal plugs. My mechanic recommends for me to take the entire intake out and have it boil at machine shop.
Honestly, Tech guys from this morning were thorough. They spent more than 4.5 doing test after test and they were consulting one another. They had no new recommendations for me to do, that I’ve haven’t already done. I don’t get the part about the EGR valve and ports being plug up having to do anything with my miss fire issue. I guess I’m skeptical and may need abit of convincing.

Early in the thread I commented about plugged ports as the first thing you need to check when you have high NOX. I described the test and you chose to ignore my recommendations. Removing by drilling the plugs (all 6 of them) and then drilling the ports is considered the cheapest and most widely used method to solve this problem. Of couse, removing and boiling out the intake manifold could also fix that problem but you might cause other problem to appear in the process (air leaks caused by improper realignment of the intake gaskets, etc. ) And they would still have to remove the plugs to insure they are open after boiling the maniford.

In my own experience, I have seen plugged ports cause a low speed misfire (the car would not idle) after driving at high speed for a while. Cleaning the ports fixed that problem and also a 755 NOX problem on the smog test.

I don't know if I can help you further, but keep us advised of the fix.

I do apologize, I did read your previous thread earlier. Like I said, I was abit skeptical, and needed to go right down the list of eliminations. Have you done the actual job yourself? I haven’t, yet. I was up late last night doing the research and read a few post from do it yourself folks. The majority recommend to remove the intake manifold off the vehicle for better access, just to make this simpler. Also, some folks stated the boiling method did not clean out the intake that well, folks ended up cleaning out (boring out) the ports themselves. How did you go about this, did you go out and rent tools or are you well equip? You know any good writre up to continue my research?
Thanx
laloquera:runaround:

I have the TSB on this but can not make attachments on this site. So if you give me your email address, I can send it to you as an attachment. I have done this repair and it is easy. You need an electric drill, a drill bit to drill a hole for a 10-24 screw and a 10-24 tap. Attaching a screw to a slide hammer (you can make one), you can remove the plugs and then hand drill out the ports. Replacement plugs are available from Honda.

WOW!
You got to show me how to do a slide hammer. U paiza like me? ... "la engeneria Mexicana el las cabrona" ... Try me at:
[email protected]

I probobly get started on Monday morning, but It will give me time to prep.
Gratz!
Laloquera

Mpumas
Your da Honda Guru. Just got done with my repairs this afternoon, everything work out precisely just like you said it would. No problems, no broken parts & no extra parts. Took her out on a test drive, problem is gone, no misfire. Actually, car ran great, more getty up, accelerator is very sensitive. The only thing left is to take her inn for the third time to get smog and pass. Thanks for making happened. Keep you post on da smog deal.
Laloquera

Congratulations. I think you may now pass the NOX test. I don't know about the other tests. Keep us advised.

Done deal, it pass with flying colors. Thank you soooooo mutch. You anything about 98 CR-V's, my wife care is running like crap and it has a check engine light on.
laloquera

Great, glad I could help. As for the CR-V, you got to read the ECU code. Go to Autozone and rent for free a OBDII code reader.