Rings only....or more?
Johnson16
08-14-2008, 09:15 PM
94 tercel, 1.5 liter 3E, 4 speed. My compression on two cylinders is basically none existent. I believe the numbers were 80, 130, 160, 70 on the compression test. Min values per Haynes is 140. Wet tested compression and the numbers jumped so I am assuming rings are shot. Believe it or not it still runs with only the two cylinders. The question is assuming I am going to do the rings and valves do I just do the whole thing? Bearings, cam resurface (I assume it would be good?), etc.? In talking to a machine shop it looks like honing or boring would be $10-$15 a cylinder and the resurface the head is about $90. I have not priced out the parts. I have never dove in to an engine this far and to be honest it sounds kinda fun. I trust my mechanical abilities but what am I in for? Would it be smarter to just buy a new reconditioned block with all the guts for about $1000 and know its good to go? It has 180K on it and I only paid $1200 for the car so I hesitate to put that kinda money into it. Doesn't even have AC!! But, if I wanted to sell it for what I paid (plus some) I know I have to do at least the rings and valves. The body is still in good shape. Also, I have seen threads where the have replace the 3E with a 5E. I don't know the difference in the engines. Just wondered if anyone has an opinion on this. I enjoy the mpg and would like to increase it on this car. My dodge ram is no fun to drive with these gas prices. Thanks for any feedback.
MagicRat
08-18-2008, 10:07 AM
I think you should assume you need to rebore the cylinders and install new oversize rings and pistons.
That compression is awfully low for rings that are just worn. I suspect the cylinders are excessively worn or scored and, in that case, new rings are not going to help much.
To be sure, you can remove the head and inspect the cylinder walls for scoring. Cylinder wall wear can be determined by inspecting the ridge at the top of the cylinder. Anything more than a barely-decernable ridge should get a rebore.
Unless you can afford the time to disassemble and rebuild an engine as a learning process, the rebuilt engine is the way to go.
BTW I am wary of any engine that is labelled "reconditioned". That word can mean anything.........
Make sure it has been "rebuilt" including at least a rebore, new pistons, rings, polished or reground crank with all new bearings, new or reground valves, seats and new guides, new lifters and a new or polished camshaft.
That compression is awfully low for rings that are just worn. I suspect the cylinders are excessively worn or scored and, in that case, new rings are not going to help much.
To be sure, you can remove the head and inspect the cylinder walls for scoring. Cylinder wall wear can be determined by inspecting the ridge at the top of the cylinder. Anything more than a barely-decernable ridge should get a rebore.
Unless you can afford the time to disassemble and rebuild an engine as a learning process, the rebuilt engine is the way to go.
BTW I am wary of any engine that is labelled "reconditioned". That word can mean anything.........
Make sure it has been "rebuilt" including at least a rebore, new pistons, rings, polished or reground crank with all new bearings, new or reground valves, seats and new guides, new lifters and a new or polished camshaft.
Scrapper
08-18-2008, 10:35 AM
you got to tear tear whole moter apart like they are telling you. but you could just get crate moter or rebuild the one you got if you want to no how.
sad-lumina-owner
08-26-2008, 11:35 AM
If you just want to get some money back on it, why not just get a motor from a wrecker? It can't be worse than yours, and it'll be cheaper than a new/rebuilt engine.
partsmgn
08-29-2008, 02:51 AM
Just a quick word on the term "reconditioned" or "re-built" and "re-manufactures"..... I'm a parts manager and when we talk "reconditioned" or "re-built" these terms mean that only the parts that broke or wore out were replaced and then resold..... "re-manufactured" means that ALL parts were replaced with brands new ones and resold... the only part not new would be the casting itself. As to rebuilding the engine the low compression could also mean a head gasket is shot with the combination of tired rings....my suggestion is to do a complete overhaul....while your at it send the head out to be re maned or try to find re-manufacture heads
Scrapper
08-29-2008, 05:31 AM
ok can you answer this? is a 440 dodge the same as they put in rv's and like gtx? are they the same or diffirent?
partsmgn
08-29-2008, 10:37 PM
Well yes and no.... the rv engine has the same block but the gtx engine would be enhanced since this would be a sports car and would have definintly more power. Most likely the cam and valve train would be beefed up to support the higher performance. The rv engine would be more tuned for crusing and hauling extra weight. Even though they are the same engine in theory.... there are many internal changes that make these motors different.
Scrapper
08-30-2008, 01:08 AM
well i found the hard way on a 440 one is industrial and the second for gtx they will not work. theres a little pin when you mount it on the block and on the industrial dont's have the pin on the fuel pump you cant see it untill you put the forth one on. now i just got it in today at nappa. the arms every thing look the same but that dam little pin i'll never for get that deal.go figure so in other words there not the same. just a note if you ever cross this point.
partsmgn
08-30-2008, 03:16 AM
My father owns an 82 ford fairmont with a 3.3L inline 6..... we were at a local napa store looking for a higher thermostat (the highest one we could find was a 192) the counterman said you might be able to use a thermostat from a 3.3 L industrial engine so we looked into it ...... it turns out that the industrial 3.3 and the automotive 3.3 has slight differences in them so you can't cross parts. Another part difference is the fuel pump. But I never thought that an RV engine would be classified as an industrial application
Scrapper
08-30-2008, 12:00 PM
i just went threw that on my rv on a fuel pump this is 4th one i told autozone it was wrong it look the same but there was a little like pin on auto zone and advaced so i went to nappa they got me the right one and it was considered industrial..
partsmgn
08-30-2008, 01:14 PM
I had a customer come in with a fuel pump from a swather that had a 3.3 L motor.... I had a a fuel pump but the arm had a difference of about 1/2 and inch
Scrapper
08-31-2008, 12:59 AM
awful odd that you had right fuel pump that i called 4 right? maybe he had the wrong fuel pump?
partsmgn
08-31-2008, 01:14 PM
Could be but.... I did ask him if this was the original pump and he said yes so I'm not going to argue with him
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