Front Sway Bar

Is there an easy way to change the front sway bar? I read the chiltons manual and it seemed fairly involved.

What year and model Grand Prix?

It is a 97 GT with 3.8 no SC. The sway bar broke over on the drivers side and looks like it is hollow on the inside, could this be? I have a new GM Performance parts sway bar to put on.

check the tips and maintenance subforum. I actually did two of these in the past month. Its not as hard as everyone leads you to believe.

Can i just unblot the sway bar with out undoing anything else? Checked the tips and maintinence section and did not see any sway bar stuff. Did see how to do the struts which will happen before long.

Your right, there isn't anything in the tips and maintenance forum. However, I could have sworn somebody had a write-up on here with step by step instructions. I just can't remember where and when.

The sway bar Removal and Installation in structions can be found here (http://www.grandprix.net/upgrades/frontswaybar.html)

I woner why Bob hasn't posted it in Tips and maintenance yet.

We have this one someplace in several old threads. Just perform a search. See link below.

Click here (http://www.grandprix.net/upgrades/frontswaybar.html)

Same one Tim. Anyone can post it. I'm too tired lately.

Hey Bob, you coming down with something?:uhoh: Keep yourself healthy, we need you on here.....

Bob is probably worn out from all the database issues AF has had lately. If that's not it, get feeling better buddy!!!

Thanks guys for all your help.

The proceedure link is now in the tips and maintenance subforum.

Thanks for the concern guys. I probably just need a good vacation plus doing the UIM and LIM gaskets this past week in my wife's Regal tired me out not to mention a lot of regular work at the office. Plus old age. :uhoh:.....:lol:

LIM gaskets? What happened? Chocolate Milk in the crankcase? Or just a small leak?

BTW guys, if you look at the post times, Bob and I posted at the exact same time. Neither one of us seen the other person's post beforehand. So I hope Bob will be alright.....

LIM gaskets? What happened? Chocolate Milk in the crankcase? Or just a small leak?


Well, Tim I guess you could classify it as a small leak. Probably the weirdest problem I've run into for awhile at least concerning manifold gasket issues. I noticed over the past 2 months there was some coolant loss maybe 1/2 quart at the coolant reservoir but really hard to tell for sure. No driveability issues. No misfires, 21-22 mpg city, engine vacuum checked at 17 in-hg lowest reading without A/C on, spark plug read was good, good idle, acceleration, etc. Nothing external leaking noted so internal was a good assumption. Then last week she got a SES/CEL light with a P0107 DTC indicating a possible MAP sensor issue. I removed the MAP sensor and noticed some liquid on it other than motor oil which is unusual. Smelled it and then tasted it. No doubt it was anti-freeze. :crying: Then removed the PCV and noticed a small coolant puddle in the UIM port where the PCV inserts. Then decided to check condition of crankcase oil and noted steam coming out of the oil filler with antifreeze residue on the cap. No milkshake and crankcase oil at the dipstick appeared to be uncontaminated probably because it was detected in time.

So I decided a tear down was necessary to see WTF was up. Anyways, what I found was the LIM port gasket at cylinder 1 front bank was in bad shape. It was the coolant port between 1 and 3 along with the part of the gasket that covers the small port in the LIM used for crankcase ventilation and feeding up to the UIM and PCV. So that was the source of the steam and coolant leak. Based on the design the UIM was sucking in the coolant via the PCV system but it was primarily in vapor/mist form so that would explain the no driveability issues. And in the process I noted the UIM gasket was flattened out with no visible raised seal and a minor tear at one of the coolant passage seals feeding the throttle body. However, no EGR stovepipe damage. That area of the UIM looked really good. It has the revised GM UIM plenum and smaller diameter EGR stovepipe since GM revised this for the 1999 year. Otherwise, the UIM looked good and true with no warping of the plastic where it mates to the LIM therefore I was able to re-use it. :grinyes: Also, although possible this did not appear to be a Dex-cool issue since I put in Prestone EL 5/150 (yellow) coolant well over a year ago. Then took time and cleaned it all up and installed the FelPro UIM and LIM gaskets. Put it all back together by the book. I think I lost faith in the GM gaskets. :thumbsdow

Drained the oil and installed a new oil filter just to be safe and added some Seafoam (6.75 oz) in the crankcase for a short period of time. Then new oil again and a new filter. At least I found a good use for the Seafoam since it supposedly helps get moisture out of the crankcase along with other contaminants. Although I am watching it closely all seems good now. I had to install a new MAP sensor since the anti-freeze probably damaged it. No more P0107 DTC either. Just to be safe other parts included the PCV and o-ring, lower fuel injector o-rings and coolant bypass elbows. The bypass elbows did not remove intact when I removed the tensioner assembly so I had to replace them. Used the GM/Delco elbows and they came with the o-rings.

I took a series of pics detailing the work and may post them at Tips & Maintenance along with a tech procedure in the near future which should help GT and some SE owners with the VIN "K" 3800.

Excellent info. Interesting that Dex-Cool doesn't seem to be the culprit. I've run Dex-cool since I've owned my car and apart from replaceing my UIM gasket, I've had no issues. I just follow the advise to keep air out of the system and flush my coolant system much sooner than the recommended 5 year or 100,000 mile point. My coolant never gunks up so apparantly, the advise has been beneficial.

Bob, were the GM gaskets you had in there the metal redesigned ones? Were the fel-pro replacements metal? Just curious....

Bob, were the GM gaskets you had in there the metal redesigned ones? Were the fel-pro replacements metal? Just curious....

No Tim. The LIM gaskets were the original GM which were plastic framed. Car had 132K miles. Instead of using the aluminum framed GM ones that came out around summer 2006 I went with the FelPro revised version which are plastic, end seals pinned, part number: MS95809-1.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC02591.jpg

Why did you decide aginst GM metal framed ones? Again just wondering... (maybe you know something I dont)

I feel like I'm going to have to do a LIM gasket job here soon. I've got a little steam from the dipstick tube and a very minute loss of coolant (about an inch below the filler neck every month). Oil looks fine on the dipstick and when it comes out. So, I dont know. Maybe a similar problem to yours. Car runs great, plugs changed a couple months ago, none were contaminated with coolant. So i'm thinking LIM gaskets...

The local GM dealer that I do business with did not have them in immediate stock. Plus lately over the past few years GM/Delco farms stuff out to other manufacturers so you have to question the quality. For example the AC Delco oil filters are not made by Delco but by Champion Labs based on the cheapy Ecore design. So I guess you can say it is a loss of confidence. FelPro has a proven track record when it comes to gaskets, especially if you worked with the GM 3100/3400 engines. The GM revised LIM gaskets were terrible and people had re-occurring issues.

It probably wouldn't hurt to do a tear down and replace the LIM gaskets, of course along with the supercharger gasket and o-rings. I did all of my GTP intake gaskets a few years ago. Several months ago I replaced the SC gasket but I had my blower S ported not due to any issues.

Good stuff to know Bob! What brand oil filter do you run now since delcos are made by champions?

How long am I looking at for a LIM job on the 3800? Its a really easy motor to work on, but I'd rather take my time I guess.

Basically all that needs to be removed is the fuel rails, UIM, LIM, tensioner assembly and alternator, right?

The valve covers can stay on this time compared to the 3100/3400?

Tim,

Purolator Pure One for my Regal GS and wife's LS. Mobil 1 in my GTP which incidentally is made by Champion Labs but based on a performance design not the crappy Ecore they use for the AC Delco brand.

You could get it done in less than half a day but since it is your car take your time. Really an easy job considering just tedious due to all the parts that have to be removed and re-assembly. The time consuming part is getting it all cleaned up. Gasket surfaces on the cylinder heads, LIM ports, SC ports, making sure dirt doesn't drop into the lifter galley and getting all the old baked on carbon out of the throttle body, supercharger and LIM, etc.

You can leave the valve covers on and do not need to undo the fuel pressure and return lines from the rail. After removing the fuel rail retaining nuts and pulling up on the rail and popping off the injectors all you have to do is tie up the fuel rail like shown in pic below. However, be sure to replace the lower fuel injector o-rings.

Remove SC pulley drive belt, intake bellows, accelerator cable and bracket in addition to what you mentioned. The EGR heat shield, EGR to LIM pipe, all wiring to sensors and certain sensors, and wiring/connectors to the fuel injectors. Alternator cross bar/brackets at rear bank. On spark plug wires just set them aside after removing the plastic wiring guides. You can leave the throttle body on the supercharger and remove after you get the blower off since you will replace the rubber silicone seal there. Easier that way.

Also, follow the exact torquing sequence of all LIM and supercharger bolts per the FSM and proper torque values. Use an in-lb torque wrench and 1/4" drive tools on the SC and LIM bolts. Use low strength threadlocker on the bolts which you can re-use after cleaning them up.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/DSC02575.jpg

Good Stuff Bob! Thanks for the info!

Not to take the off topic, off topic but I was a little interested in a front sway bar, thanks.:smile:

I will be doing this tonight and I'll add some photos to the instructions. For those of us that are a little more pictorial it is helpful.

The sway bar Removal and Installation in structions can be found here (http://www.grandprix.net/upgrades/frontswaybar.html)

I wonder why Bob hasn't posted it in Tips and maintenance yet.

Thanks for the link. That was helpful.

I got my OEM used sway bar at http://www.moradpartscompany.com/

I'd like to add a couple things & some pics...


Just finished... '99 GP GT
Here is my helper... he is 4 and knows what a 9/16" is and a 15mm!!
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/500/helper.jpg
I got the Moog sway bar links from the local Carquest
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/500/finished.jpg
If anyone has a good idea as to how to remove this bolt let everyone know. This as a PAIN!! Only room for 1/8 of a turn.
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/gallery/data/500/wrench.jpg

wish I would had a torch is all I can say...
That tie rod end was a bear to remove!!

I editied the instructions a little for my vehicle...


Installing a front sway bar
By Brian A. Marks with permission from Kevin Li






Tools Required:

13mm socket (one regular and one deep socket) if using stock end link bushings (and a 13mm end wrench and a hammer and a chisel and some WD40 to hammer these rusty things out)
14mm socket (one regular and one deep socket) if using Energy Suspension end link bushings
15mm socket, end wrench, deep well and all other 15mm wrenches you have for midpoint bushings (either stock or Energy Suspension)
18mm deep socket for tie-rod end nuts (I also needed a 9/23 to hold the tie rod end. It would have been much easier just cutting this off).
Torque wrench (it was really tough getting a torque wrench in there!!)
Jack stands - I used 2, but could have used 4
Lug wrench (mine were 19mm)
Jack (I have a floor jack)
Proper jacking points: please see the documentation from the Helm's manuals here: Page 1 (http://www.grandprix.net/upgrades/jackpt1.gif) / Page 2 (http://www.grandprix.net/upgrades/jackpt2.gif) (what happens if you do not jack from these points??)
Parts Required

Front sway bar
End link bushings
Midpoint bushings
if your car is older and rusty get an tie rod end (left & right are same)The Upgrade


Properley support the vehicle on both sides using the jack points shown above.
Remove both front wheels. (I removed the left first and left the other on the ground while I wrenched hard on the first one).
Remove the end link and mid point bushings from the existing bar. My end links were very rusty and I needed a 13mm deep socket and a 13mm end wrench. Once the nut was off I needed to hammer the bushings and end link bolt out. This required much WD40 also.
Remove the tie-rod end from one side of the vehicle (passenger side is fine). This was the hardest part of the job. The nut is a nylock with the stud having a 9/32" end on it. My poor little 1/4" ratchet was tired when I was done. I had to use a TON of heat to remove it. Once heated I get about 1/4 of a turn until the nylon in the nut cooled off. I would have been better off cutting 1/2 through the stud and then hammering it off (a friend of mine did it this way I found out today).
The other part of the tie rod was also rusted onto the inner tie rod. I had to heat the nut up also here and it took quite some time getting this apart. Stupid Michigan winters & 150K miles!!
Turn the stock bar up and out of the tie-rod and pull the bar out. this was very easy but I had to take the mid point bushings off first.
Install the new sway bar in reverse. I loosly installed the rear bolts of the mid point bushings first and then put the end links in loosly
Make sure the "V" part of the bar is pointing up. It should be at the center of the bar if properly installed and ends up looking like an upside-down "V".
Install the end link and midpoint bushings on the bar - if your midpoint bushings are fitted with zerk fittings, line the bushing with grease first and use a grease gun after installation to properly grease the bar. If not, thoroughly lube the bushing before installing it. End link bushings do not need to be lubricated.
Tighten one side first as follows:
Torque the tie-rod end to 22 lb-ft (plus 120 degrees of turn - check your shop manual to be sure)
Torque the midpoint bushing to 35 lb-ft
Torque the end link bushing to 17 lb-ft
Support the other side's wheel and properly torque as noted above. A good way to do this is to put a jack under the control arm as shown in the page 2 of the proper jack points shown above.
If you have zerk fittings, lubricate the midpoint bushings now.
Reinstall the wheels and torque to 100 lb-ft.
Test drive the vehicle and listen for squeaks and rattles. If you hear any, make sure that the bushings are greased properly. Only the midpoint bushings need lubrication.