HYUNDAI cars are WORTHLESS!
Hudson
08-28-2008, 08:01 PM
You are delusional.
Thanks Hudson that you admitted that my Hyundai is not above average…
You read WHAT into what I said? I said nothing of the sort. Sorry, you wrong.
Dear Hudson, the saying is correct but it’s not apply to the example that I gave. Micra is little smaller in dimensions (length) than Accent, but the Engine Is the Same (1300 cc or 1.3L).
I've worked in the automotive industry for a number of years. The Micra and the Accent are NOT in the same class. My MG has a 1.3L engine as well and that doesn't mean it's in the same class as a Micra OR an Accent. Vehicle size, price point, and body style are more important than engine size. Your car is in a different class than the Micra.
[FONT=Arial]Do you believe dear Hudson that in the next year that Micra will reach –and probably pass- the miles that I have done gradually in 11 years,
Moot point. How many problems did you have fixed under warranty?
Also, AGE has as much or MORE to do with a vehicle than mileage. I've got a 1.3L car that has had relatively few problems in the 160k miles I've owned it and another that has been more trouble just keeping on the road...and it has fewer than 90k miles.
Read again my first comment of the Thread to [B]remind yourself the total problems that I had in my Accent –not only the last important: oils burn inside the engine- and answer me.
You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!
Accent was the development – evolution of a previous 1.3L model, the Hyundai Excel (I think that in US named Pony).
Wrong and wrong. The Excel was not called the Pony in the US, it was the Excel. The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.
It served me well the first 6-7 years. The most of the important problems that I describe to you in my first comment in this Thread, appeared from the 7th year.
Wow! You admitted that your car was GOOD! You've proven my point. Thank you. Good bye.
Thanks Hudson that you admitted that my Hyundai is not above average…
You read WHAT into what I said? I said nothing of the sort. Sorry, you wrong.
Dear Hudson, the saying is correct but it’s not apply to the example that I gave. Micra is little smaller in dimensions (length) than Accent, but the Engine Is the Same (1300 cc or 1.3L).
I've worked in the automotive industry for a number of years. The Micra and the Accent are NOT in the same class. My MG has a 1.3L engine as well and that doesn't mean it's in the same class as a Micra OR an Accent. Vehicle size, price point, and body style are more important than engine size. Your car is in a different class than the Micra.
[FONT=Arial]Do you believe dear Hudson that in the next year that Micra will reach –and probably pass- the miles that I have done gradually in 11 years,
Moot point. How many problems did you have fixed under warranty?
Also, AGE has as much or MORE to do with a vehicle than mileage. I've got a 1.3L car that has had relatively few problems in the 160k miles I've owned it and another that has been more trouble just keeping on the road...and it has fewer than 90k miles.
Read again my first comment of the Thread to [B]remind yourself the total problems that I had in my Accent –not only the last important: oils burn inside the engine- and answer me.
You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!
Accent was the development – evolution of a previous 1.3L model, the Hyundai Excel (I think that in US named Pony).
Wrong and wrong. The Excel was not called the Pony in the US, it was the Excel. The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.
It served me well the first 6-7 years. The most of the important problems that I describe to you in my first comment in this Thread, appeared from the 7th year.
Wow! You admitted that your car was GOOD! You've proven my point. Thank you. Good bye.
sofpan
08-29-2008, 03:01 AM
Dear Hudson,
You didn’t comment the Cost per month in the example I gave, with the comparison of Accent and X brand. Why? Probably because you can not defend Hyundai.
You haven’t answer yet –and all the “Hyundai Defenders”- how you define the quality and durability in a car, despite my continuous requests. Only you Hudson, answered a little and partially the question, answering only some things about the quality (my comment: you refer to Initial Quality and that is not so important). You said nothing about durability. Why? Because all of you know, that if you answer what is quality and durability in a car, then it will shown that Hyundai has no Quality and has no Durability. You avoid to answer because you know the consequence of your answers.
As for the example – comparison of Accent and Micra, we have different perceptions. You say that Accent and Micra are not comparable, I say they are comparable. In this case, I compare the two cars from the mechanical and the well or not functional view of problems that the cars appear. For this view, the only important thing is the engine to be the same. I compare the mechanical problems. If the engines in the two cars are the same (1300 cc or 1.3L) I believe that are absolutely comparable. What if Accent has bigger length? In what way the length of a car affects the mechanical problems?
I say: Mechanical Problems = have to do with machine = have to do with engine and other mechanical systems and parts. So two cars with the same engine are comparable.
You say: Mechanical Problems = have to do with length ……………:confused: Please, Don’t compare Apples and Oranges. :)
If some organizations or others, put the Accent and Micra in different classes, that is from the side of passengers’ and luggages’ space. That has nothing to do with the mechanical or/and electrical problems.
I also said that my Accent served me well for about 6 years. You said that that means that my Accent is good. Again different perceptions: I don’t thing that any car that in 6 years have done totally –and gradually- only 41.4 k miles (6,900 miles per year in average), and the driver drives “carefully” like a grandma (as I do) and the car doesn’t appears major issues in this time frame, is necessary a good car. If it’s a good car, it will shown from years 7-10 or more. I thought that I bought a car, not a TOY. You think that this car under those conditions and circumstances is a good car. What can I say?!?!? :frown: I wish you… to own only such good cars.
I think that a car that behaved like my Accent is a worthless car.
Finally we have completely different perceptions about what causes more problems to cars. I say that the more problems caused by the use (mileage) and you say that caused by time. Of course you are expert with cars because your job has to do with them and my job is irrelevant to cars. But in a future comment, I will show the experts opinion on this. I have a relevant article that pertain and Hyundai, showing just the opposite than what you profess… but in a next comment…not everything now. :naughty:
Goodmorning,
Panayiotis Sofianopoulos (sofpan)
sofpan@yahoo.com
Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Yes… I expanded it for two days, because I am a good guy and the previous expiration was in Sunday (its not a working day). Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. After 2 of September it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you.
You didn’t comment the Cost per month in the example I gave, with the comparison of Accent and X brand. Why? Probably because you can not defend Hyundai.
You haven’t answer yet –and all the “Hyundai Defenders”- how you define the quality and durability in a car, despite my continuous requests. Only you Hudson, answered a little and partially the question, answering only some things about the quality (my comment: you refer to Initial Quality and that is not so important). You said nothing about durability. Why? Because all of you know, that if you answer what is quality and durability in a car, then it will shown that Hyundai has no Quality and has no Durability. You avoid to answer because you know the consequence of your answers.
As for the example – comparison of Accent and Micra, we have different perceptions. You say that Accent and Micra are not comparable, I say they are comparable. In this case, I compare the two cars from the mechanical and the well or not functional view of problems that the cars appear. For this view, the only important thing is the engine to be the same. I compare the mechanical problems. If the engines in the two cars are the same (1300 cc or 1.3L) I believe that are absolutely comparable. What if Accent has bigger length? In what way the length of a car affects the mechanical problems?
I say: Mechanical Problems = have to do with machine = have to do with engine and other mechanical systems and parts. So two cars with the same engine are comparable.
You say: Mechanical Problems = have to do with length ……………:confused: Please, Don’t compare Apples and Oranges. :)
If some organizations or others, put the Accent and Micra in different classes, that is from the side of passengers’ and luggages’ space. That has nothing to do with the mechanical or/and electrical problems.
I also said that my Accent served me well for about 6 years. You said that that means that my Accent is good. Again different perceptions: I don’t thing that any car that in 6 years have done totally –and gradually- only 41.4 k miles (6,900 miles per year in average), and the driver drives “carefully” like a grandma (as I do) and the car doesn’t appears major issues in this time frame, is necessary a good car. If it’s a good car, it will shown from years 7-10 or more. I thought that I bought a car, not a TOY. You think that this car under those conditions and circumstances is a good car. What can I say?!?!? :frown: I wish you… to own only such good cars.
I think that a car that behaved like my Accent is a worthless car.
Finally we have completely different perceptions about what causes more problems to cars. I say that the more problems caused by the use (mileage) and you say that caused by time. Of course you are expert with cars because your job has to do with them and my job is irrelevant to cars. But in a future comment, I will show the experts opinion on this. I have a relevant article that pertain and Hyundai, showing just the opposite than what you profess… but in a next comment…not everything now. :naughty:
Goodmorning,
Panayiotis Sofianopoulos (sofpan)
sofpan@yahoo.com
Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Yes… I expanded it for two days, because I am a good guy and the previous expiration was in Sunday (its not a working day). Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. After 2 of September it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you.
sofpan
08-29-2008, 03:25 AM
Oh! I forgot!
]The Excel was not called the Pony in the US[/COLOR]
OK, cheel out! I said I think it was called Pony, wasn’t sure.
The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.
So dear Hudson what are you telling now? That because Accent had some differences with the previous Excel, Hyundai Motors couldn’t use the experience that had on Excel to built a better model of about the same size (Accent)?
If I understood well, then you are saying that every new model of Hyundai, is starting from zero. And there are plenty of relatively new models “first generation” from Hyundai: Getz (I ask has nothing to do with the previous Atoz?), Matrix, i10, i30, the Genesis is coming soon.
With your logic (if I understood you well) all of these new “first generation” models have the possibility to show in the future important issues like my “first generation” Accent show. And if you think that some of these new models are “first generation” and some others are not, please inform us which are the “first generation” and which are not, so the consumers to know which of those may be worthless :2cents: after some years.
Bye!
]The Excel was not called the Pony in the US[/COLOR]
OK, cheel out! I said I think it was called Pony, wasn’t sure.
The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.
So dear Hudson what are you telling now? That because Accent had some differences with the previous Excel, Hyundai Motors couldn’t use the experience that had on Excel to built a better model of about the same size (Accent)?
If I understood well, then you are saying that every new model of Hyundai, is starting from zero. And there are plenty of relatively new models “first generation” from Hyundai: Getz (I ask has nothing to do with the previous Atoz?), Matrix, i10, i30, the Genesis is coming soon.
With your logic (if I understood you well) all of these new “first generation” models have the possibility to show in the future important issues like my “first generation” Accent show. And if you think that some of these new models are “first generation” and some others are not, please inform us which are the “first generation” and which are not, so the consumers to know which of those may be worthless :2cents: after some years.
Bye!
sofpan
09-01-2008, 05:03 AM
Where are all the "Hyundai Defenders"?
All of them, they were Knocked Down! :nutkick:
Why?
They can not defend anymore Hyundai. They can not argue anymore.
They accepted Hyundai's Worthless. :evillol:
I will keep on inform the consumers for Hyundai's Worthless, presenting new data from time to time.
Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. After 2 of September it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you. Hurry! The deadline expires tomorrow.
All of them, they were Knocked Down! :nutkick:
Why?
They can not defend anymore Hyundai. They can not argue anymore.
They accepted Hyundai's Worthless. :evillol:
I will keep on inform the consumers for Hyundai's Worthless, presenting new data from time to time.
Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. After 2 of September it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you. Hurry! The deadline expires tomorrow.
wade623
09-01-2008, 06:48 AM
if no one has noticed they are stealing designs from bmw now look at the front end and i seen a picture of the inside of one and they used something simalar to the i-drive bmw uses i.e the knob in the center
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"You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!"
what do you mean minor for a ten year old car my malibu is 10 years old it doesnt rattle or burn oil people say malibus suck but if they didnt have the problems they do the would be a better car and most of the problems they have are do it yourself fixable but burning oil in a 10 year old car isnt usally worth fixing anyway . burning oil is usally a sign of a cheap engine or just fried rings
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"You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!"
what do you mean minor for a ten year old car my malibu is 10 years old it doesnt rattle or burn oil people say malibus suck but if they didnt have the problems they do the would be a better car and most of the problems they have are do it yourself fixable but burning oil in a 10 year old car isnt usally worth fixing anyway . burning oil is usally a sign of a cheap engine or just fried rings
lowsonoma1999
09-01-2008, 10:31 PM
Where are all the "Hyundai Defenders"?
All of them, they were Knocked Down! :nutkick:
Why?
They can not defend anymore Hyundai. They can not argue anymore.
They accepted Hyundai's Worthless. :evillol:
No, I just gave up. No matter what anybody says, your opinion will not change, so why even waste my time. If you are so unhappy, cut your losses, sell your car, and buy a 25 year old Opel. That's what I've done with the cars I've had issues with. I never once demanded that the manufacturer repair a 10 year old car that was way out of warranty.
if no one has noticed they are stealing designs from bmw now look at the front end and i seen a picture of the inside of one and they used something simalar to the i-drive bmw uses i.e the knob in the center
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"You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!"
what do you mean minor for a ten year old car my malibu is 10 years old it doesnt rattle or burn oil people say malibus suck but if they didnt have the problems they do the would be a better car and most of the problems they have are do it yourself fixable but burning oil in a 10 year old car isnt usally worth fixing anyway . burning oil is usally a sign of a cheap engine or just fried rings
I agree, the exterior design of the new Genesis does have cues from BMW and Lexus. However, the center knob, similar to the i-drive, is similar, but magazine reviews of it say it is way more simpler to use than the i-drive. Just because BMW came up with it first, doesn't mean that they are copying it. Is every manufacturer copying the first company that developed cruise control? No. The i-drive is a very good idea, and I give BMW credit for the idea, and Hyundai is just improving it and using it on their own.
Onto your Malibu. You should understand, unlike sofpan, that there are bad apples for every manufacturer. My sister bought a '99 Olds Alero, same car as Malibu. Years ago, and well before 100k miles, car had bad front wheel hubs, bad body control module, and a bad transmission. Not every car coming off the assembly line is perfect.
All of them, they were Knocked Down! :nutkick:
Why?
They can not defend anymore Hyundai. They can not argue anymore.
They accepted Hyundai's Worthless. :evillol:
No, I just gave up. No matter what anybody says, your opinion will not change, so why even waste my time. If you are so unhappy, cut your losses, sell your car, and buy a 25 year old Opel. That's what I've done with the cars I've had issues with. I never once demanded that the manufacturer repair a 10 year old car that was way out of warranty.
if no one has noticed they are stealing designs from bmw now look at the front end and i seen a picture of the inside of one and they used something simalar to the i-drive bmw uses i.e the knob in the center
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You just don't get it. Burning oil and a few minor rattles is MINOR for a 10-year old car. MINOR!"
what do you mean minor for a ten year old car my malibu is 10 years old it doesnt rattle or burn oil people say malibus suck but if they didnt have the problems they do the would be a better car and most of the problems they have are do it yourself fixable but burning oil in a 10 year old car isnt usally worth fixing anyway . burning oil is usally a sign of a cheap engine or just fried rings
I agree, the exterior design of the new Genesis does have cues from BMW and Lexus. However, the center knob, similar to the i-drive, is similar, but magazine reviews of it say it is way more simpler to use than the i-drive. Just because BMW came up with it first, doesn't mean that they are copying it. Is every manufacturer copying the first company that developed cruise control? No. The i-drive is a very good idea, and I give BMW credit for the idea, and Hyundai is just improving it and using it on their own.
Onto your Malibu. You should understand, unlike sofpan, that there are bad apples for every manufacturer. My sister bought a '99 Olds Alero, same car as Malibu. Years ago, and well before 100k miles, car had bad front wheel hubs, bad body control module, and a bad transmission. Not every car coming off the assembly line is perfect.
sofpan
09-02-2008, 02:41 AM
Lowsonoma1999 appeared again!!! :worshippy
[quote=lowsonoma1999]No, I just gave up[quote]
And you think that this is good? When someone has right, he doesn’t give up.
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!
However, the center knob, similar to the i-drive, is similar, but magazine reviews of it say it is way more simpler to use than the i-drive. Just because BMW came up with it first, doesn't mean that they are copying it.
Yes dear lowsonome1999… Hyundai is coping the BMW, the Toyota, the Honda, the Mercedes, copies many manufactures. I can show you pictures if you like.
Can you dear lowsonome1999 find something that Hyundai innovated and the others auto makers copied from Hyundai? I don’t think so.
You tell that Hyundai is like a school boy that copies in the exams from the good student the correct answers, but you say that because this student change a little, the correct answers, that don’t make him a “cheat”. No, whoever is a bad student and copies the answers, cheats!
there are bad apples for every manufacturer
Only that in the case of Hyundai the bad apples are more than the other serious manufactures.
Not every car coming off the assembly line is perfect.
You know lowsonoma1999, the production line is made by the manufacturer, the factory is made by the manufacturer, the production procedure is chosen and scheduled by the manufacturer, the raw materials are chosen by the manufacturer, the production standards are chosen by the manufacturer. So if the whole procedure is a standardization procedure, how you can explain bad apples and bad apples being only an exception and not to occur for whole production series as the standardization production procedure is exactly the same for a long time period?
You also – and every other “Hyundai Defender” – haven’t answer “what is quality and durability for a car” and finally, haven’t comment the comparison of Accent and the X brand (of the same size) that I show in comment #61. Why? Because Hyundai are Worthless. :bananasmi
Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. Expiration is today. From tomorrow, it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you. Hurry! The deadline expires in some hours.
[quote=lowsonoma1999]No, I just gave up[quote]
And you think that this is good? When someone has right, he doesn’t give up.
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!
However, the center knob, similar to the i-drive, is similar, but magazine reviews of it say it is way more simpler to use than the i-drive. Just because BMW came up with it first, doesn't mean that they are copying it.
Yes dear lowsonome1999… Hyundai is coping the BMW, the Toyota, the Honda, the Mercedes, copies many manufactures. I can show you pictures if you like.
Can you dear lowsonome1999 find something that Hyundai innovated and the others auto makers copied from Hyundai? I don’t think so.
You tell that Hyundai is like a school boy that copies in the exams from the good student the correct answers, but you say that because this student change a little, the correct answers, that don’t make him a “cheat”. No, whoever is a bad student and copies the answers, cheats!
there are bad apples for every manufacturer
Only that in the case of Hyundai the bad apples are more than the other serious manufactures.
Not every car coming off the assembly line is perfect.
You know lowsonoma1999, the production line is made by the manufacturer, the factory is made by the manufacturer, the production procedure is chosen and scheduled by the manufacturer, the raw materials are chosen by the manufacturer, the production standards are chosen by the manufacturer. So if the whole procedure is a standardization procedure, how you can explain bad apples and bad apples being only an exception and not to occur for whole production series as the standardization production procedure is exactly the same for a long time period?
You also – and every other “Hyundai Defender” – haven’t answer “what is quality and durability for a car” and finally, haven’t comment the comparison of Accent and the X brand (of the same size) that I show in comment #61. Why? Because Hyundai are Worthless. :bananasmi
Expiration of deadline to Hyundai Motors: Tuesday 2 of September. Dear Hyundai Motors you ought to fix for free the defective engine of my Accent. Expiration is today. From tomorrow, it will be more difficult (see comment #49). Take the opportunity to solve the problem at a “discount situation” for you. Hurry! The deadline expires in some hours.
Hudson
09-02-2008, 12:37 PM
And you think that this is good? When someone has right, he doesn’t give up. [/FONT]
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!
Here's the difference...I'm right and you can't be convinced of it. I didn't give up, I won. You just haven't realized it yet. Nor will you.
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!
Here's the difference...I'm right and you can't be convinced of it. I didn't give up, I won. You just haven't realized it yet. Nor will you.
lowsonoma1999
09-02-2008, 01:08 PM
Lowsonoma1999 appeared again!!! :worshippy
[quote=lowsonoma1999]No, I just gave up[quote]
And you think that this is good? When someone has right, he doesn’t give up.
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!
So if I give up trying to convince some idiodic high school kid that his Honda Civic is slow, does that mean he won? and he is right? No. Trust me, I have tried to convince them, and they dont listen. Had one that I worked with say that one average, for every $100 you spend on performance parts, you can gain 10 horsepower. Just because he spend $75 on an ebay intake for his CRX and he gained 7hp from it, does not mean that principle goes accross the board. So since I have $35,000 into the motor of my race car, why don't I have 3500 horsepower? I gave up trying to convince this idiot that his reasoning is wrong, just like your reasoning is wrong, but that doesn't mean him, nor you is right.
[quote=lowsonoma1999]No, I just gave up[quote]
And you think that this is good? When someone has right, he doesn’t give up.
Furthermore, someone loses a battle either by giving up, or beaten. So practically we have knock down!
So if I give up trying to convince some idiodic high school kid that his Honda Civic is slow, does that mean he won? and he is right? No. Trust me, I have tried to convince them, and they dont listen. Had one that I worked with say that one average, for every $100 you spend on performance parts, you can gain 10 horsepower. Just because he spend $75 on an ebay intake for his CRX and he gained 7hp from it, does not mean that principle goes accross the board. So since I have $35,000 into the motor of my race car, why don't I have 3500 horsepower? I gave up trying to convince this idiot that his reasoning is wrong, just like your reasoning is wrong, but that doesn't mean him, nor you is right.
sofpan
09-02-2008, 01:23 PM
Dear Hudson and lowsonoma1999,
#1 >>> You didn’t comment the Cost per month in the example I gave, with the comparison of Accent and X brand. Why? Probably because you can not defend Hyundai.
#2 >>> You haven’t answer yet–and all the “Hyundai Defenders”- how you define the quality and durability in a car, despite my continuous requests.
#3 >>> Only for Hudson: are you telling that because Accent had some differences with the previous Excel, Hyundai Motors couldn’t use the experience that had on Excel to built a better model of about the same size (Accent)?
If I understood well, then you are saying that every new model of Hyundai, is starting from zero. And there are plenty of relatively new models “first generation” from Hyundai: Getz (I ask has nothing to do with the previous Atoz?), Matrix, i10, i30, the Genesis is coming soon.
With your logic (if I understood you well) all of these new “first generation” models have the possibility to show in the future important issues like my “first generation” Accent show. And if you think that some of these new models are “first generation” and some others are not, please inform us which are the “first generation” and which are not, so the consumers to know which of those may be worthless after some years.
Also see this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Galloper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Galloper)
It seems to me that you are wrong. Because Pony had to do with Excel (you said that hadn’t to do) and Excel is related with Accent (you said, it din’t), You HUDSON ARE WRONG!!!
Don't throw so many bricks. They return to you!
:bricks1:
#1 >>> You didn’t comment the Cost per month in the example I gave, with the comparison of Accent and X brand. Why? Probably because you can not defend Hyundai.
#2 >>> You haven’t answer yet–and all the “Hyundai Defenders”- how you define the quality and durability in a car, despite my continuous requests.
#3 >>> Only for Hudson: are you telling that because Accent had some differences with the previous Excel, Hyundai Motors couldn’t use the experience that had on Excel to built a better model of about the same size (Accent)?
If I understood well, then you are saying that every new model of Hyundai, is starting from zero. And there are plenty of relatively new models “first generation” from Hyundai: Getz (I ask has nothing to do with the previous Atoz?), Matrix, i10, i30, the Genesis is coming soon.
With your logic (if I understood you well) all of these new “first generation” models have the possibility to show in the future important issues like my “first generation” Accent show. And if you think that some of these new models are “first generation” and some others are not, please inform us which are the “first generation” and which are not, so the consumers to know which of those may be worthless after some years.
Also see this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Galloper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Galloper)
It seems to me that you are wrong. Because Pony had to do with Excel (you said that hadn’t to do) and Excel is related with Accent (you said, it din’t), You HUDSON ARE WRONG!!!
Don't throw so many bricks. They return to you!
:bricks1:
lowsonoma1999
09-02-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't know about Greece, but here in the states, the Excel and Accent have about as much in common as the XG and Azera have, or the 05 and older Sonatas compared to the 06+ Sonata. They are nothing alike, other than size.
sofpan
09-02-2008, 04:22 PM
Dear lowsonoma1999. Look at the Table at this link I gave you. The Table is showing the timeline of Hyundai by the type of models (city car, sub compact, etc). The Table is in wikipedia. Has nothing to do with Greece.
And from the Table we can see that Pony is related to Excel, and Excel is related to Accent. So Hyundai in 1998 that I bought my Accent, had about 20 years of experience to this kind of car (about same dimension and size of engine).
And from the Table we can see that Pony is related to Excel, and Excel is related to Accent. So Hyundai in 1998 that I bought my Accent, had about 20 years of experience to this kind of car (about same dimension and size of engine).
lowsonoma1999
09-03-2008, 11:27 AM
Dear lowsonoma1999. Look at the Table at this link I gave you. The Table is showing the timeline of Hyundai by the type of models (city car, sub compact, etc). The Table is in wikipedia. Has nothing to do with Greece.
And from the Table we can see that Pony is related to Excel, and Excel is related to Accent. So Hyundai in 1998 that I bought my Accent, had about 20 years of experience to this kind of car (about same dimension and size of engine).
You can also say that every manufacturer has experience for an ungodly amount of time. All engines, with exception of the rotary, have pistons, crankshafts, camshafts, valves, cylinder heads, etc. It does not mean that there hasn't been a redesign. The engine in your Accent is much different than the engine in the Excel, even if it is close to the same size. They redesign engines all the time to improve all kinds of different aspecs, to reduce engine noise, improve fuel economy, increase horsepower, improve reliability. Jumping back and forth in my parts catalog from the Excel to your Accent, I have yet to find any part that has the same part #, or interchangability.
And from the Table we can see that Pony is related to Excel, and Excel is related to Accent. So Hyundai in 1998 that I bought my Accent, had about 20 years of experience to this kind of car (about same dimension and size of engine).
You can also say that every manufacturer has experience for an ungodly amount of time. All engines, with exception of the rotary, have pistons, crankshafts, camshafts, valves, cylinder heads, etc. It does not mean that there hasn't been a redesign. The engine in your Accent is much different than the engine in the Excel, even if it is close to the same size. They redesign engines all the time to improve all kinds of different aspecs, to reduce engine noise, improve fuel economy, increase horsepower, improve reliability. Jumping back and forth in my parts catalog from the Excel to your Accent, I have yet to find any part that has the same part #, or interchangability.
sofpan
09-04-2008, 03:05 AM
Lowsonoma1999 you are saying exactly the same with me, so you reinforcing my argument and my opinion.
…The engine in your Accent is much different than the engine in the Excel, even if it is close to the same size. They redesign engines all the time to improve all kinds of different aspecs…
Your key words: redesign, improve.:iagree:
You are telling that Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had from the previous models of the same category (Pony and then Excel) to make an improved model (Accent). That’s exactly what I am saying. We agree. :grinyes: But we (you and me) do not agree with our friend Hudson that said that Accent had nothing to do with Excel and also, said that Excel was unrelated to Pony.
The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.
Hudson indeed, used capital letters to emphasize that Accent had no relation with previous Excel.
Hudsonsays that Accent, back in ~1995 was entry-level model, but he is wrong, because Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had, to redesign and improve in some points, its car. So Accent back in ~1995 was a new model but not an entry-level model.
Hyundai had at least 10 years of experience on this category and cars size. And redesign the Excel. Why Hyundai redesigned the Excel and not made a new version of Excel? Probably because Excel was an unsuccessful model. When a Auto Maker has a successful model (from the sales view), usually has no need to stop selling it. So Hyundai redesigned Excel, improved it in some points (better “technical” performances), named the model Accent, made the consumers think that was a new and better model, but it didn’t improve it in quality and durability. Excel was a model that was cheap but it had a bad reputation in the markets (think the very low resale value). Hyundai made again a cheap but not good car from the side of quality, reliability and durability (Accent).
Hyundai could make a better quality and durable car but it didn’t. Hyundai didn’t made such a good car because if have made, the cost would have been larger and that would have consequences to the sales.
Hyundai/KIA Group is in the #5 of global annual sales only because it has cheap cars. Don’t look for quality, reliability and durability at Hyundais in the long term.
Finally dear lowsonoma1999 you haven’t answer me:
1) What is your definition of quality and durability in a car.
2a) Can you show me something that Hyundai Motor innovated and was copied from other auto makers? Because I can show you lots of examples that Hyundai copies the designs, the parts, the mechanisms etc from others.
2b) If you can’t show me something that Hyundai innovated and copied by other auto makers, how you explain this phenomenon? An Auto Group (Hyundai/KIA) to be in the 5th position of annual global sales and has no important innovation of itself to worth to be copied from other auto companies? Be careful, I mean clearly a Hyundai’s innovation, not something that probably made by another company and “sell” it to Hyundai.
My answer to question #2, is that Hyundai never innovated something important, something revolutionary, even in design, and that’s because…………
H Y U N D A I ..is
W O R T H L E S S
Please “Hyundai Defenders”, what is your opinion?
…The engine in your Accent is much different than the engine in the Excel, even if it is close to the same size. They redesign engines all the time to improve all kinds of different aspecs…
Your key words: redesign, improve.:iagree:
You are telling that Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had from the previous models of the same category (Pony and then Excel) to make an improved model (Accent). That’s exactly what I am saying. We agree. :grinyes: But we (you and me) do not agree with our friend Hudson that said that Accent had nothing to do with Excel and also, said that Excel was unrelated to Pony.
The Excel's 1.3L engine was COMPLETELY UNRELATED to the Accent's 1.3L engine.
Hudson indeed, used capital letters to emphasize that Accent had no relation with previous Excel.
Hudsonsays that Accent, back in ~1995 was entry-level model, but he is wrong, because Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had, to redesign and improve in some points, its car. So Accent back in ~1995 was a new model but not an entry-level model.
Hyundai had at least 10 years of experience on this category and cars size. And redesign the Excel. Why Hyundai redesigned the Excel and not made a new version of Excel? Probably because Excel was an unsuccessful model. When a Auto Maker has a successful model (from the sales view), usually has no need to stop selling it. So Hyundai redesigned Excel, improved it in some points (better “technical” performances), named the model Accent, made the consumers think that was a new and better model, but it didn’t improve it in quality and durability. Excel was a model that was cheap but it had a bad reputation in the markets (think the very low resale value). Hyundai made again a cheap but not good car from the side of quality, reliability and durability (Accent).
Hyundai could make a better quality and durable car but it didn’t. Hyundai didn’t made such a good car because if have made, the cost would have been larger and that would have consequences to the sales.
Hyundai/KIA Group is in the #5 of global annual sales only because it has cheap cars. Don’t look for quality, reliability and durability at Hyundais in the long term.
Finally dear lowsonoma1999 you haven’t answer me:
1) What is your definition of quality and durability in a car.
2a) Can you show me something that Hyundai Motor innovated and was copied from other auto makers? Because I can show you lots of examples that Hyundai copies the designs, the parts, the mechanisms etc from others.
2b) If you can’t show me something that Hyundai innovated and copied by other auto makers, how you explain this phenomenon? An Auto Group (Hyundai/KIA) to be in the 5th position of annual global sales and has no important innovation of itself to worth to be copied from other auto companies? Be careful, I mean clearly a Hyundai’s innovation, not something that probably made by another company and “sell” it to Hyundai.
My answer to question #2, is that Hyundai never innovated something important, something revolutionary, even in design, and that’s because…………
H Y U N D A I ..is
W O R T H L E S S
Please “Hyundai Defenders”, what is your opinion?
Hudson
09-04-2008, 08:41 AM
You know nothing about cars or the automotive industry, and you just love to prove it.
But we (you and me) do not agree with our friend Hudson that said that Accent had nothing to do with Excel and also, said that Excel was unrelated to Pony.
The original Pony had nothing to do with the original Excel since one (the Pony) was rear-wheel drive and the other (the Excel) was front-wheel drive. Completely different cars covering a similar market segment.
Hudsonsays that Accent, back in ~1995 was entry-level model, but he is wrong, because Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had, to redesign and improve in some points, its car. So Accent back in ~1995 was a new model but not an entry-level model.
Hyundai's Excel and Accent were entry-level cars in the subcompact market. In the US, they were even the entry-level into the Hyundai brand. Entry-level means basic...low-cost...easy enough to buy for a young person. "Entry-level."
Why Hyundai redesigned the Excel and not made a new version of Excel? Probably because Excel was an unsuccessful model. When a Auto Maker has a successful model (from the sales view), usually has no need to stop selling it. So Hyundai redesigned Excel, improved it in some points (better “technical” performances), named the model Accent, made the consumers think that was a new and better model, but it didn’t improve it in quality and durability. Excel was a model that was cheap but it had a bad reputation in the markets (think the very low resale value). Hyundai made again a cheap but not good car from the side of quality, reliability and durability (Accent).
Will you PLEASE read? I've stated this OVER and OVER. Resale value for a brand NEVER shoots up overnight. It takes YEARS...many years, in some cases, for the reputation to catch up with the fact of improved quality.
Additionally, Accent name was used to replace the "tarnished" image of the Excel name, which was, at first, wildly successful in many markets. And the Accent was an improved vehicle compared to the Excel.
[FONT=Arial]Hyundai could make a better quality and durable car but it didn’t.
Hyundai could have made a Mercedes-Benz or a Lexus, also. But, instead, they made a car that YOU could afford to buy. That is the trade-off. Entry-level cars, such as the one you purchased, aren't supposed to last forever. That's why they cost so little.
Your opinion is your opinion. I'm stating this information from my educated knowledge-base. Your opinion comes from the fact that your ENTRY-LEVEL car started going downhill after 6-7 years. You got your money's worth...be happy!
But we (you and me) do not agree with our friend Hudson that said that Accent had nothing to do with Excel and also, said that Excel was unrelated to Pony.
The original Pony had nothing to do with the original Excel since one (the Pony) was rear-wheel drive and the other (the Excel) was front-wheel drive. Completely different cars covering a similar market segment.
Hudsonsays that Accent, back in ~1995 was entry-level model, but he is wrong, because Hyundai used the experience and feed back that had, to redesign and improve in some points, its car. So Accent back in ~1995 was a new model but not an entry-level model.
Hyundai's Excel and Accent were entry-level cars in the subcompact market. In the US, they were even the entry-level into the Hyundai brand. Entry-level means basic...low-cost...easy enough to buy for a young person. "Entry-level."
Why Hyundai redesigned the Excel and not made a new version of Excel? Probably because Excel was an unsuccessful model. When a Auto Maker has a successful model (from the sales view), usually has no need to stop selling it. So Hyundai redesigned Excel, improved it in some points (better “technical” performances), named the model Accent, made the consumers think that was a new and better model, but it didn’t improve it in quality and durability. Excel was a model that was cheap but it had a bad reputation in the markets (think the very low resale value). Hyundai made again a cheap but not good car from the side of quality, reliability and durability (Accent).
Will you PLEASE read? I've stated this OVER and OVER. Resale value for a brand NEVER shoots up overnight. It takes YEARS...many years, in some cases, for the reputation to catch up with the fact of improved quality.
Additionally, Accent name was used to replace the "tarnished" image of the Excel name, which was, at first, wildly successful in many markets. And the Accent was an improved vehicle compared to the Excel.
[FONT=Arial]Hyundai could make a better quality and durable car but it didn’t.
Hyundai could have made a Mercedes-Benz or a Lexus, also. But, instead, they made a car that YOU could afford to buy. That is the trade-off. Entry-level cars, such as the one you purchased, aren't supposed to last forever. That's why they cost so little.
Your opinion is your opinion. I'm stating this information from my educated knowledge-base. Your opinion comes from the fact that your ENTRY-LEVEL car started going downhill after 6-7 years. You got your money's worth...be happy!
sofpan
09-04-2008, 01:51 PM
I copy from Edmunds.com
Top 10 Cars With the Worst Residual Value for 2008
Residual value is more important than most new-car shoppers realize. Higher residual values mean lower monthly payments if you opt to lease, and improved resale value if you decide to purchase your new ride. This list takes a look at the 2008 cars with the worst resale values; these vehicles are those likely to depreciate the most once you drive them off the lot. Our list includes the percentage of its original value that each vehicle is likely to retain after five years with an annual mileage of 15,000. Residual value percentages are based on the national True Market Value (TMV®) price, plus typical options and destination charge.
1. 2008 Kia Rio — 26.3%
2. 2008 Kia Spectra — 27.0%
3. 2008 Hyundai Accent — 28.0%
4. 2008 Suzuki Reno — 29.2%
5. 2008 Suzuki Forenza — 29.3%
6. 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis — 30.4%
7. 2008 Kia Amanti — 30.6%
8. 2008 Chevrolet Malibu Classic — 30.7%
9. 2008 Hyundai Sonata — 30.8%
10. 2008 Jaguar S-Type — 31.3%
See it below:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/127289/article.html (http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/127289/article.html)
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My comment : ...and the winner is...........Hyundai Group! 5 at 10 of the WORST Resale Value between all cars, in a period of 5 years, are of Hyundai Group. Well done Hyundai! You scored 50%! Great Improvements at the new Hyundai group’s models!
I also can not think what happens at the Resale Value of Hyundai Group's cars after the 5 years, in a period of about 7 to 10 years. Terror !!!!!
:eek2:
Top 10 Cars With the Worst Residual Value for 2008
Residual value is more important than most new-car shoppers realize. Higher residual values mean lower monthly payments if you opt to lease, and improved resale value if you decide to purchase your new ride. This list takes a look at the 2008 cars with the worst resale values; these vehicles are those likely to depreciate the most once you drive them off the lot. Our list includes the percentage of its original value that each vehicle is likely to retain after five years with an annual mileage of 15,000. Residual value percentages are based on the national True Market Value (TMV®) price, plus typical options and destination charge.
1. 2008 Kia Rio — 26.3%
2. 2008 Kia Spectra — 27.0%
3. 2008 Hyundai Accent — 28.0%
4. 2008 Suzuki Reno — 29.2%
5. 2008 Suzuki Forenza — 29.3%
6. 2008 Mercury Grand Marquis — 30.4%
7. 2008 Kia Amanti — 30.6%
8. 2008 Chevrolet Malibu Classic — 30.7%
9. 2008 Hyundai Sonata — 30.8%
10. 2008 Jaguar S-Type — 31.3%
See it below:
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/127289/article.html (http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/127289/article.html)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My comment : ...and the winner is...........Hyundai Group! 5 at 10 of the WORST Resale Value between all cars, in a period of 5 years, are of Hyundai Group. Well done Hyundai! You scored 50%! Great Improvements at the new Hyundai group’s models!
I also can not think what happens at the Resale Value of Hyundai Group's cars after the 5 years, in a period of about 7 to 10 years. Terror !!!!!
:eek2:
Hudson
09-04-2008, 02:11 PM
Yet, AGAIN...
Will you PLEASE read? I've stated this OVER and OVER. Resale value for a brand NEVER shoots up overnight. It takes YEARS...many years, in some cases, for the reputation to catch up with the fact of improved quality.
Since you're back in love with corporate opinions, here's a better one:
Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent: ranked 2nd and 3rd for Initial Quality in the Subcompact segment
Hyundai Elantra: ranked 3rd for Initial Quality in the Compact segment
Hyundai Santa Fe: ranked 2nd for Initial Quality in the Mid-Sized MAV segment
Proving MY point that it takes time for public opinion to catch up to reality. You're ten years behind, shouldn't that be proof enough?
Will you PLEASE read? I've stated this OVER and OVER. Resale value for a brand NEVER shoots up overnight. It takes YEARS...many years, in some cases, for the reputation to catch up with the fact of improved quality.
Since you're back in love with corporate opinions, here's a better one:
Kia Rio, Hyundai Accent: ranked 2nd and 3rd for Initial Quality in the Subcompact segment
Hyundai Elantra: ranked 3rd for Initial Quality in the Compact segment
Hyundai Santa Fe: ranked 2nd for Initial Quality in the Mid-Sized MAV segment
Proving MY point that it takes time for public opinion to catch up to reality. You're ten years behind, shouldn't that be proof enough?
sofpan
09-05-2008, 04:33 AM
Fireworks from Hudson! Mate, you said the key word: Initial.
Those initial-quality surveys deal with problems that surface only in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership. So, you can not tell that a vehicle is good by testing it for 90 days! “Initial Quality” is a joke for cars’ judgement about quality, reliability and durability.
Almost all auto manufacturers have raised the levels of their “initial-quality game”. It have been shown that differences among most brands in the first 90 days have been shrinking into statistical insignificance. Very few cars have major problems on the first months.
Initial quality is quite good across most of the auto industry, and differences are increasingly minor. In fact, last year’s IQS – the most recent available - showed that the spread from the best to the worst brand is less than 0.8 problem per vehicle. That’s insignificant.
Every manufacturer has the ability to make a car with a level of “quality” that will score “high” at Initial Quality Surveys. And almost everyone does it. A manufacturer must be very bad for not having the low level of quality that needs for its cars, not to have troubles in the first days. Furthermore, the number of problems that a car of any brand will appear in these first days, is mostly a matter of luck. Nothing more. That’s why some prestigious brands (e.g. BMW) ranked low in these Surveys.
How is the vehicle after 90 days, a year, or five years have passed? That question is significant because the average owner keeps a car for 5 ½ years these days and a fourth of all motorists keep their cars for at least 8 years.
What’s really important is how your car will treat you long after that new-car smell is gone.
Initial Quality is just a very small part (for me insignificant) of the bigger quality picture. Other surveys by JD Power, by Consumer Reports and others, track quality and durability for 3 and 6 years, respectively. That’s much more important.
How does Hyundai do with long-term reliability? JD Powers definition, from their web site: Long-Term Dependability (VDS): Measured after three years of ownership, VDS examines many of the same areas as IQS, but adds the durability aspect—how well the product holds up with accumulated mileage. Problems are measured using a problems-per-100-vehicles (PP100) designation, with lower PP100 scores indicating higher levels of dependability.
Also from JD Power: "The study (VDS), which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old vehicles, provides useful information to both consumers and the automotive industry on long-term vehicle quality. For consumers, the VDS offers insight into the reliability and dependability of brands and specific models as they approach the end of a typical warranty period. Manufacturers use this information to track the quality performance of their models over time to implement product improvement plans."
Dear Hudson, in those surveys, Hyundai is in the bottom, below average. You want proofs?
The latest JD Power VDS Study 2008: Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability, after Lexus, Mercury, Cadillac, Toyota , Acura, Buick, BMW, Lincoln, Honda, Jaguar, Porsche, Mitsubishi. Do you think that is a good position? I don't.
And consider that the Study is for the 3 years old vehicles. I don't believe that 3 years is "long term". For me, a three years old car is almost new, especially if it has low mileage and "gently" use. I believe that all vehicles of every brand have the (low) level of quality to last for 3-5 years, without appear lots of serious malfunctions. What do you think will happen to Hyundai cars in 5 years, 7 years or 10 years?
My Accent in 10 years (but with "gently" use and low mileage) got lots of problems. I regret it. I compare it with 7 - 30 years old other cars that my friends have and Hyundai is worst than every of these other brands.
You want more proofs? I’ll give you…
JD Power customer satisfaction poll '08 – in Great Britain: Hyundai 17th, KIA 25th between 28 brands!!! Hyundai sucks!
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/7588125111.jpg (http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/7588125111.jpg)
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/75881243591.jpg (http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/75881243591.jpg)
Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey:
In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th position between all Manufactures (so sucks!), from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. So “Hyundai Defenders” as we can see from the decreasing absolute points that Hyundai gets, is proving that quality is not stable but many times is decreasing.
In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th position between all Manufactures (sucks!), from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006. Conclusion: Worst Hyundai cars than previous years.
In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st position between all Manufactures (sucks a lot!), from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2006 showing to us that Hyundai cars are bad but getting even worse than previous years.
See the links if you want:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008047UK (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008047UK)
customer satisfaction index 2008
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008074 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008074)
German customer satisfaction index 2008
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008066 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008066)
French customer satisfaction index 2008
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007069 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007069)
English 2007 reduce
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007106 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007106)
German 2007 reduce
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007092 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007092)
French 2007 reduce
More? More…
Germany’s ADAC last reliability 2008 study: The ADAC breakdown statistics are one of the most important surveys of on-the-road passenger car reliability. The statistics were computed on the basis of the approximately 3.75 million times that ADAC personnel provided breakdown assistance last year.
The most reliable cars of this survey in the 8 categories that were tested and checked, were 6 european cars and 2 japs. In the previous years the top position in every category dominated from japs. It seems that the Europeans learned their lesson and improved the quality and reliability. But guess what… in ΑDΑC’s lists we found 3 korean models, the Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson. Those Koreans took the last position in their category… Korean… phioouuuu!
http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/15991/__Germanys-2007-ADAC-reliability-report-part-two-.html (http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/15991/__Germanys-2007-ADAC-reliability-report-part-two-.html)
Germany's DEKRA releases 2008 car reliability report: DEKRA is Germany's vehicle certification body and has released its 2008 car reliability study, the research based on some 15 million vehicle tests carried out in the country over the last two years.
In 14 out of the total 21 categories, German brand cars were rated as the most reliable ahead of their foreign rivals' offerings. (My comment: we cann’t accuse DEKRA for favoring the German cars because in the previous years the top positioning were japs).
Interestingly, DEKRA's 2008 figures were adjusted to the cars' mileage rather than their age, as was the case before, in a bid to provide customers with the most accurate vehicle reliability data possible. Do you listen Hudson that you are saying that age is more important than mileage? DEKRA is more experienced than you and says to us that mileage is more important…
The DEKRA 2008 top cars for reliability are (I am showing the results from the high mileage of every category, as the lower mileage is not significant):
MINI/SMALL CARS: Honda Jazz
COMPACT CARS: Volkswagen Golf V
MEDIUM CARS: Audi A4 UPPER MEDIUM/EXECUTIVE CARS: BMW 5-Series
SPORTS CARS/COUPES: Mazda MX-5 (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
SUV: BMW X5
MPV: Volkswagen Touran (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
Did you notice something? Hyundai in the high mileage is absent and as I saw in those tables, Hyundai was below the average of all brands. That means that Hyundai had more problems than average. So Hyundai when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term, sucks!
Enough or today...
And for me dear "Hyundai Defenders", do you know what is important?
A real Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI): How long did the average new car customer keep their car.
And a real durability index: How many of the cars (percentage) of every auto maker are still registered after 15 years.
There are no such studies but I know that Hyundai would have ranked low… because I have the experience of Hyundai’s low quality, reliability and durability. I also have the whole market opinion (low resale value).
Dear Hudson, don’t forget that there are also other auto makers that are relatively new in the game like Hyundai, but their cars have bigger resale value. So don’t use the “cheap” excuse that 30 years in the market are not many for Hyundai to gain reputation. Hyundai doesn’t gains reputation and as a consequence has very low resale value, just because it makes cheap cars with low quality, reliability and durability. Hyundai’s cars are not worthing and the market punish them with low resale value.
Those initial-quality surveys deal with problems that surface only in the first 90 days of new-vehicle ownership. So, you can not tell that a vehicle is good by testing it for 90 days! “Initial Quality” is a joke for cars’ judgement about quality, reliability and durability.
Almost all auto manufacturers have raised the levels of their “initial-quality game”. It have been shown that differences among most brands in the first 90 days have been shrinking into statistical insignificance. Very few cars have major problems on the first months.
Initial quality is quite good across most of the auto industry, and differences are increasingly minor. In fact, last year’s IQS – the most recent available - showed that the spread from the best to the worst brand is less than 0.8 problem per vehicle. That’s insignificant.
Every manufacturer has the ability to make a car with a level of “quality” that will score “high” at Initial Quality Surveys. And almost everyone does it. A manufacturer must be very bad for not having the low level of quality that needs for its cars, not to have troubles in the first days. Furthermore, the number of problems that a car of any brand will appear in these first days, is mostly a matter of luck. Nothing more. That’s why some prestigious brands (e.g. BMW) ranked low in these Surveys.
How is the vehicle after 90 days, a year, or five years have passed? That question is significant because the average owner keeps a car for 5 ½ years these days and a fourth of all motorists keep their cars for at least 8 years.
What’s really important is how your car will treat you long after that new-car smell is gone.
Initial Quality is just a very small part (for me insignificant) of the bigger quality picture. Other surveys by JD Power, by Consumer Reports and others, track quality and durability for 3 and 6 years, respectively. That’s much more important.
How does Hyundai do with long-term reliability? JD Powers definition, from their web site: Long-Term Dependability (VDS): Measured after three years of ownership, VDS examines many of the same areas as IQS, but adds the durability aspect—how well the product holds up with accumulated mileage. Problems are measured using a problems-per-100-vehicles (PP100) designation, with lower PP100 scores indicating higher levels of dependability.
Also from JD Power: "The study (VDS), which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old vehicles, provides useful information to both consumers and the automotive industry on long-term vehicle quality. For consumers, the VDS offers insight into the reliability and dependability of brands and specific models as they approach the end of a typical warranty period. Manufacturers use this information to track the quality performance of their models over time to implement product improvement plans."
Dear Hudson, in those surveys, Hyundai is in the bottom, below average. You want proofs?
The latest JD Power VDS Study 2008: Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability, after Lexus, Mercury, Cadillac, Toyota , Acura, Buick, BMW, Lincoln, Honda, Jaguar, Porsche, Mitsubishi. Do you think that is a good position? I don't.
And consider that the Study is for the 3 years old vehicles. I don't believe that 3 years is "long term". For me, a three years old car is almost new, especially if it has low mileage and "gently" use. I believe that all vehicles of every brand have the (low) level of quality to last for 3-5 years, without appear lots of serious malfunctions. What do you think will happen to Hyundai cars in 5 years, 7 years or 10 years?
My Accent in 10 years (but with "gently" use and low mileage) got lots of problems. I regret it. I compare it with 7 - 30 years old other cars that my friends have and Hyundai is worst than every of these other brands.
You want more proofs? I’ll give you…
JD Power customer satisfaction poll '08 – in Great Britain: Hyundai 17th, KIA 25th between 28 brands!!! Hyundai sucks!
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/7588125111.jpg (http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/7588125111.jpg)
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/75881243591.jpg (http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/75881243591.jpg)
Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey:
In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th position between all Manufactures (so sucks!), from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. So “Hyundai Defenders” as we can see from the decreasing absolute points that Hyundai gets, is proving that quality is not stable but many times is decreasing.
In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th position between all Manufactures (sucks!), from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006. Conclusion: Worst Hyundai cars than previous years.
In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st position between all Manufactures (sucks a lot!), from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2006 showing to us that Hyundai cars are bad but getting even worse than previous years.
See the links if you want:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008047UK (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008047UK)
customer satisfaction index 2008
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008074 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008074)
German customer satisfaction index 2008
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008066 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008066)
French customer satisfaction index 2008
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007069 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007069)
English 2007 reduce
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007106 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007106)
German 2007 reduce
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007092 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007092)
French 2007 reduce
More? More…
Germany’s ADAC last reliability 2008 study: The ADAC breakdown statistics are one of the most important surveys of on-the-road passenger car reliability. The statistics were computed on the basis of the approximately 3.75 million times that ADAC personnel provided breakdown assistance last year.
The most reliable cars of this survey in the 8 categories that were tested and checked, were 6 european cars and 2 japs. In the previous years the top position in every category dominated from japs. It seems that the Europeans learned their lesson and improved the quality and reliability. But guess what… in ΑDΑC’s lists we found 3 korean models, the Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson. Those Koreans took the last position in their category… Korean… phioouuuu!
http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/15991/__Germanys-2007-ADAC-reliability-report-part-two-.html (http://www.samar.pl/__/__la/en/__ac/sec,4/new/15991/__Germanys-2007-ADAC-reliability-report-part-two-.html)
Germany's DEKRA releases 2008 car reliability report: DEKRA is Germany's vehicle certification body and has released its 2008 car reliability study, the research based on some 15 million vehicle tests carried out in the country over the last two years.
In 14 out of the total 21 categories, German brand cars were rated as the most reliable ahead of their foreign rivals' offerings. (My comment: we cann’t accuse DEKRA for favoring the German cars because in the previous years the top positioning were japs).
Interestingly, DEKRA's 2008 figures were adjusted to the cars' mileage rather than their age, as was the case before, in a bid to provide customers with the most accurate vehicle reliability data possible. Do you listen Hudson that you are saying that age is more important than mileage? DEKRA is more experienced than you and says to us that mileage is more important…
The DEKRA 2008 top cars for reliability are (I am showing the results from the high mileage of every category, as the lower mileage is not significant):
MINI/SMALL CARS: Honda Jazz
COMPACT CARS: Volkswagen Golf V
MEDIUM CARS: Audi A4 UPPER MEDIUM/EXECUTIVE CARS: BMW 5-Series
SPORTS CARS/COUPES: Mazda MX-5 (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
SUV: BMW X5
MPV: Volkswagen Touran (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
Did you notice something? Hyundai in the high mileage is absent and as I saw in those tables, Hyundai was below the average of all brands. That means that Hyundai had more problems than average. So Hyundai when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term, sucks!
Enough or today...
And for me dear "Hyundai Defenders", do you know what is important?
A real Customer Satisfaction Index (CSI): How long did the average new car customer keep their car.
And a real durability index: How many of the cars (percentage) of every auto maker are still registered after 15 years.
There are no such studies but I know that Hyundai would have ranked low… because I have the experience of Hyundai’s low quality, reliability and durability. I also have the whole market opinion (low resale value).
Dear Hudson, don’t forget that there are also other auto makers that are relatively new in the game like Hyundai, but their cars have bigger resale value. So don’t use the “cheap” excuse that 30 years in the market are not many for Hyundai to gain reputation. Hyundai doesn’t gains reputation and as a consequence has very low resale value, just because it makes cheap cars with low quality, reliability and durability. Hyundai’s cars are not worthing and the market punish them with low resale value.
Hudson
09-09-2008, 08:52 AM
Dear Hudson, in those surveys, Hyundai is in the bottom, below average. You want proofs?
[FONT=Arial]The latest JD Power VDS Study 2008: Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability, after Lexus, Mercury, Cadillac, Toyota , Acura, Buick, BMW, Lincoln, Honda, Jaguar, Porsche, Mitsubishi. Do you think that is a good position? I don't.
Average was 206 problems and Hyundai rated 200...which is ABOVE average in the 2008 Vehicle Dependability Survey. That's ABOVE Ford and luxury car maker Infiniti and Mercedes-Benz and Audi and Mini and Volkswagen. Sounds good to me. And FAR from the "bottom" which 344 for Land Rover.
On top of that, your dear Accent rated BEST in the Subcompact category.
Try again.
[FONT=Arial]The latest JD Power VDS Study 2008: Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability, after Lexus, Mercury, Cadillac, Toyota , Acura, Buick, BMW, Lincoln, Honda, Jaguar, Porsche, Mitsubishi. Do you think that is a good position? I don't.
Average was 206 problems and Hyundai rated 200...which is ABOVE average in the 2008 Vehicle Dependability Survey. That's ABOVE Ford and luxury car maker Infiniti and Mercedes-Benz and Audi and Mini and Volkswagen. Sounds good to me. And FAR from the "bottom" which 344 for Land Rover.
On top of that, your dear Accent rated BEST in the Subcompact category.
Try again.
Hudson
09-09-2008, 09:03 AM
By the way, this is from CNN.com discussing automotive awards (http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/23/Autos/tipsandadvice/award_meanings/index.htm) in discussing J.D. Power:
The facts: The big kahuna in auto-quality surveys is rock solid in its objectivity and methodology.
The facts: The big kahuna in auto-quality surveys is rock solid in its objectivity and methodology.
Hudson
09-09-2008, 09:08 AM
[FONT=Arial]Germany's DEKRA releases 2008 car reliability report: DEKRA is Germany's vehicle certification body and has released its 2008 car reliability study, the research based on some 15 million vehicle tests carried out in the country over the last two years.
In 14 out of the total 21 categories, German brand cars were rated as the most reliable ahead of their foreign rivals' offerings. (My comment: we cann’t accuse DEKRA for favoring the German cars because in the previous years the top positioning were japs).
Interestingly, DEKRA's 2008 figures were adjusted to the cars' mileage rather than their age, as was the case before, in a bid to provide customers with the most accurate vehicle reliability data possible. Do you listen Hudson that you are saying that age is more important than mileage? DEKRA is more experienced than you and says to us that mileage is more important…
The DEKRA 2008 top cars for reliability are (I am showing the results from the high mileage of every category, as the lower mileage is not significant):
MINI/SMALL CARS: Honda Jazz
COMPACT CARS: Volkswagen Golf V
MEDIUM CARS: Audi A4 UPPER MEDIUM/EXECUTIVE CARS: BMW 5-Series
SPORTS CARS/COUPES: Mazda MX-5 (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
SUV: BMW X5
MPV: Volkswagen Touran (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
Did you notice something? Hyundai in the high mileage is absent and as I saw in those tables, Hyundai was below the average of all brands. That means that Hyundai had more problems than average. So Hyundai when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term, sucks!
Did YOU notice something? Mercedes-Benz, Opel, Toyota, Ford, Nissan, Peugeot, Porsche, etc...are ALL MISSING! By your concept, they all "suck" "when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term."
In 14 out of the total 21 categories, German brand cars were rated as the most reliable ahead of their foreign rivals' offerings. (My comment: we cann’t accuse DEKRA for favoring the German cars because in the previous years the top positioning were japs).
Interestingly, DEKRA's 2008 figures were adjusted to the cars' mileage rather than their age, as was the case before, in a bid to provide customers with the most accurate vehicle reliability data possible. Do you listen Hudson that you are saying that age is more important than mileage? DEKRA is more experienced than you and says to us that mileage is more important…
The DEKRA 2008 top cars for reliability are (I am showing the results from the high mileage of every category, as the lower mileage is not significant):
MINI/SMALL CARS: Honda Jazz
COMPACT CARS: Volkswagen Golf V
MEDIUM CARS: Audi A4 UPPER MEDIUM/EXECUTIVE CARS: BMW 5-Series
SPORTS CARS/COUPES: Mazda MX-5 (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
SUV: BMW X5
MPV: Volkswagen Touran (mileage 100,000-150,000km)
Did you notice something? Hyundai in the high mileage is absent and as I saw in those tables, Hyundai was below the average of all brands. That means that Hyundai had more problems than average. So Hyundai when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term, sucks!
Did YOU notice something? Mercedes-Benz, Opel, Toyota, Ford, Nissan, Peugeot, Porsche, etc...are ALL MISSING! By your concept, they all "suck" "when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term."
sofpan
09-10-2008, 08:08 AM
Let’s see the other of Hyundai Group, the famous KIA. For those who don’t know, KIA and Hyundai is the same Group, with same shareholders. It’s one Group. Of course, as anybody with common sense can understand, in a Group that we have two companies (like Hyundai and KIA) in the same sector (car industry), either you have quality or not, as a matter of principle. For example, Toyota and Lexus: it’s the same Group and always Toyota and Lexus rank high, usually at top of quality surveys.
If Hudson or any one else of the “Hyundai Defenders” question this (that the 2 companies of the same group would have the same principles about quality), then I will ask him to tell us directly if Hyundai Group fool the consumers that sells them KIA autos, selling them cars unreliable, with no quality etc comparable to Hyundai cars.
So let’s see what is Hyundai as a Group doing in US market: Hyundai ranked 13th with 200 problems per 100 vehicles. KIA ranked 35 (yeap… thirty five) from 37 brands, that means 3rd from the bottom (…sucks so, so much!!!) with 278 problems in 100 cars. Let’s examine the average of Hyundai/KIA to see the overall performance of the Group. Well…. 200+278=478/2=239. Well with 239 problems average as a Group, Hyundai ranks in 26th position, sharing this position with Chevy… :bananasmi Well done Hyundai Group!!! Go! Go! Go!
And why we must talk only for US market? Why Hudson don’t you speak about the English, German and French markets? You know… the world is not only the US. The world is also England, Germany, France, Greece, etc.
As I show in comment 79, in England Hyundai (just Hyundai, without KIA) ranked in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. What is the average? 17+19+21=57, 57/3=19. So Hyundai in those markets that altogether are bigger than US, so more important, and just Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 19th! Woooowwww!!! Great position for Hyundai! I don’t even want to think, what the position would be with KIA, as a Group…:yikes:
The differences of the positionings of any brand, just not only Hyundai, in the surveys of different years or in the surveys and studies of different countries, just showing that the production quality of any cars' manufacturer is not stable over the years. Some times the manufacturers increase the quality and some times they reduce the quality. But in general terms, Hyundai Group in the long term, has proven to have very low quality which leads to very low owners satisfaction, which leads to very low resale value. Yes... Hyundai is worse than most of the other brands. Hyundai just has cheap cars, that's why is in the 5th position in annual global sales as a Group (with KIA), but its cars are without quality and durability.
Dear Hudson you didn’t comment the last (bottom) positionings that Hyundai Group had in Germany’s ADAC survey with Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson (each of those cars, are last… bottom… in its category). Those Koreans suck a lot!!! :thumbsdow
By your concept {means me, sofpan}, they all ‘suck’ when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term.
Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Let’s see the percentage of old cars (11 to 15 years old) that are still on the roads, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants with data from R.L. Polk Canada. Hyundai is in 30th posistion among 33 manufactures, ranked 4th from the Bottom. The proportion of old Hyundais that is still in use in the roads, is 32.8%, when the average is 60.6%. Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!
Enjoy...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php)
If Hudson or any one else of the “Hyundai Defenders” question this (that the 2 companies of the same group would have the same principles about quality), then I will ask him to tell us directly if Hyundai Group fool the consumers that sells them KIA autos, selling them cars unreliable, with no quality etc comparable to Hyundai cars.
So let’s see what is Hyundai as a Group doing in US market: Hyundai ranked 13th with 200 problems per 100 vehicles. KIA ranked 35 (yeap… thirty five) from 37 brands, that means 3rd from the bottom (…sucks so, so much!!!) with 278 problems in 100 cars. Let’s examine the average of Hyundai/KIA to see the overall performance of the Group. Well…. 200+278=478/2=239. Well with 239 problems average as a Group, Hyundai ranks in 26th position, sharing this position with Chevy… :bananasmi Well done Hyundai Group!!! Go! Go! Go!
And why we must talk only for US market? Why Hudson don’t you speak about the English, German and French markets? You know… the world is not only the US. The world is also England, Germany, France, Greece, etc.
As I show in comment 79, in England Hyundai (just Hyundai, without KIA) ranked in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. What is the average? 17+19+21=57, 57/3=19. So Hyundai in those markets that altogether are bigger than US, so more important, and just Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 19th! Woooowwww!!! Great position for Hyundai! I don’t even want to think, what the position would be with KIA, as a Group…:yikes:
The differences of the positionings of any brand, just not only Hyundai, in the surveys of different years or in the surveys and studies of different countries, just showing that the production quality of any cars' manufacturer is not stable over the years. Some times the manufacturers increase the quality and some times they reduce the quality. But in general terms, Hyundai Group in the long term, has proven to have very low quality which leads to very low owners satisfaction, which leads to very low resale value. Yes... Hyundai is worse than most of the other brands. Hyundai just has cheap cars, that's why is in the 5th position in annual global sales as a Group (with KIA), but its cars are without quality and durability.
Dear Hudson you didn’t comment the last (bottom) positionings that Hyundai Group had in Germany’s ADAC survey with Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson (each of those cars, are last… bottom… in its category). Those Koreans suck a lot!!! :thumbsdow
By your concept {means me, sofpan}, they all ‘suck’ when we are talking in terms of reliability and durability in the long term.
Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Let’s see the percentage of old cars (11 to 15 years old) that are still on the roads, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants with data from R.L. Polk Canada. Hyundai is in 30th posistion among 33 manufactures, ranked 4th from the Bottom. The proportion of old Hyundais that is still in use in the roads, is 32.8%, when the average is 60.6%. Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!
Enjoy...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php)
cmhj2000
09-10-2008, 08:49 AM
GEZ even a dog with a bone will take a nap once in a while! :runaround:
lowsonoma1999
09-10-2008, 10:34 AM
Let’s see the other of Hyundai Group, the famous KIA. For those who don’t know, KIA and Hyundai is the same Group, with same shareholders. It’s one Group. Of course, as anybody with common sense can understand, in a Group that we have two companies (like Hyundai and KIA) in the same sector (car industry), either you have quality or not, as a matter of principle. For example, Toyota and Lexus: it’s the same Group and always Toyota and Lexus rank high, usually at top of quality surveys.
If Hudson or any one else of the “Hyundai Defenders” question this (that the 2 companies of the same group would have the same principles about quality), then I will ask him to tell us directly if Hyundai Group fool the consumers that sells them KIA autos, selling them cars unreliable, with no quality etc comparable to Hyundai cars.
So let’s see what is Hyundai as a Group doing in US market: Hyundai ranked 13th with 200 problems per 100 vehicles. KIA ranked 35 (yeap… thirty five) from 37 brands, that means 3rd from the bottom (…sucks so, so much!!!) with 278 problems in 100 cars. Let’s examine the average of Hyundai/KIA to see the overall performance of the Group. Well…. 200+278=478/2=239. Well with 239 problems average as a Group, Hyundai ranks in 26th position, sharing this position with Chevy… :bananasmi Well done Hyundai Group!!! Go! Go! Go!
And why we must talk only for US market? Why Hudson don’t you speak about the English, German and French markets? You know… the world is not only the US. The world is also England, Germany, France, Greece, etc.
As I show in comment 79, in England Hyundai (just Hyundai, without KIA) ranked in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. What is the average? 17+19+21=57, 57/3=19. So Hyundai in those markets that altogether are bigger than US, so more important, and just Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 19th! Woooowwww!!! Great position for Hyundai! I don’t even want to think, what the position would be with KIA, as a Group…:yikes:
The differences of the positionings of any brand, just not only Hyundai, in the surveys of different years or in the surveys and studies of different countries, just showing that the production quality of any cars' manufacturer is not stable over the years. Some times the manufacturers increase the quality and some times they reduce the quality. But in general terms, Hyundai Group in the long term, has proven to have very low quality which leads to very low owners satisfaction, which leads to very low resale value. Yes... Hyundai is worse than most of the other brands. Hyundai just has cheap cars, that's why is in the 5th position in annual global sales as a Group (with KIA), but its cars are without quality and durability.
Dear Hudson you didn’t comment the last (bottom) positionings that Hyundai Group had in Germany’s ADAC survey with Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson (each of those cars, are last… bottom… in its category). Those Koreans suck a lot!!! :thumbsdow
Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Let’s see the percentage of old cars (11 to 15 years old) that are still on the roads, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants with data from R.L. Polk Canada. Hyundai is in 30th posistion among 33 manufactures, ranked 4th from the Bottom. The proportion of old Hyundais that is still in use in the roads, is 32.8%, when the average is 60.6%. Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!
Enjoy...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php)
Hyundai has a lot stricter quality controls than Kia does, that is why they are ranked so much higher. Only one vehicle, out of all Hyundai's and Kia's share the same assembly line. Kia makes the Hyundai Entourage minivan. That is the only one. Even some of the older Hyundai and Kias were almost identical, but they were still built at different plants because of Hyundai's stricter quality controls.
If Hudson or any one else of the “Hyundai Defenders” question this (that the 2 companies of the same group would have the same principles about quality), then I will ask him to tell us directly if Hyundai Group fool the consumers that sells them KIA autos, selling them cars unreliable, with no quality etc comparable to Hyundai cars.
So let’s see what is Hyundai as a Group doing in US market: Hyundai ranked 13th with 200 problems per 100 vehicles. KIA ranked 35 (yeap… thirty five) from 37 brands, that means 3rd from the bottom (…sucks so, so much!!!) with 278 problems in 100 cars. Let’s examine the average of Hyundai/KIA to see the overall performance of the Group. Well…. 200+278=478/2=239. Well with 239 problems average as a Group, Hyundai ranks in 26th position, sharing this position with Chevy… :bananasmi Well done Hyundai Group!!! Go! Go! Go!
And why we must talk only for US market? Why Hudson don’t you speak about the English, German and French markets? You know… the world is not only the US. The world is also England, Germany, France, Greece, etc.
As I show in comment 79, in England Hyundai (just Hyundai, without KIA) ranked in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. What is the average? 17+19+21=57, 57/3=19. So Hyundai in those markets that altogether are bigger than US, so more important, and just Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 19th! Woooowwww!!! Great position for Hyundai! I don’t even want to think, what the position would be with KIA, as a Group…:yikes:
The differences of the positionings of any brand, just not only Hyundai, in the surveys of different years or in the surveys and studies of different countries, just showing that the production quality of any cars' manufacturer is not stable over the years. Some times the manufacturers increase the quality and some times they reduce the quality. But in general terms, Hyundai Group in the long term, has proven to have very low quality which leads to very low owners satisfaction, which leads to very low resale value. Yes... Hyundai is worse than most of the other brands. Hyundai just has cheap cars, that's why is in the 5th position in annual global sales as a Group (with KIA), but its cars are without quality and durability.
Dear Hudson you didn’t comment the last (bottom) positionings that Hyundai Group had in Germany’s ADAC survey with Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson (each of those cars, are last… bottom… in its category). Those Koreans suck a lot!!! :thumbsdow
Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Let’s see the percentage of old cars (11 to 15 years old) that are still on the roads, according to DesRosiers Automotive Consultants with data from R.L. Polk Canada. Hyundai is in 30th posistion among 33 manufactures, ranked 4th from the Bottom. The proportion of old Hyundais that is still in use in the roads, is 32.8%, when the average is 60.6%. Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!
Enjoy...
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/11/another_reason.php)
Hyundai has a lot stricter quality controls than Kia does, that is why they are ranked so much higher. Only one vehicle, out of all Hyundai's and Kia's share the same assembly line. Kia makes the Hyundai Entourage minivan. That is the only one. Even some of the older Hyundai and Kias were almost identical, but they were still built at different plants because of Hyundai's stricter quality controls.
Hudson
09-10-2008, 11:23 AM
Let’s see the other of Hyundai Group, the famous KIA. For those who don’t know, KIA and Hyundai is the same Group, with same shareholders. It’s one Group. Of course, as anybody with common sense can understand, in a Group that we have two companies (like Hyundai and KIA) in the same sector (car industry), either you have quality or not, as a matter of principle. For example, Toyota and Lexus: it’s the same Group and always Toyota and Lexus rank high, usually at top of quality surveys.
Again I find myself in the position to educate you about how the automotive industry works. Kia and Hyundai are both owned by the Hyundai Group, but they are not the same company. Most Kia products are produced in Kia plants while most Hyundai products are produced in Hyundai plants. Unlike Toyota and Lexus, which are designed and engineered by the same group, Hyundai and Kia have their own engineers, designers, and assembly personnel. Using Kia for comparison purposes doesn't work here. So you could have saved yourself a few hundred words of argument.
Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Your comparisons of the long-term quality of "11 to 15" year old cars doesn't work at all. The basis of the entire thread, at least from the people making sense on it, has been that Hyundai's quality and durability has IMPROVED. Vehicles that are a decade and a half old cannot be used against the quality of the CURRENT lines of Hyundai vehicles. Strike two.
...Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!
By the way, as an owner of a 16-year old Suzuki, there are good and bad of every brand. There are bad Toyotas and there are Opels that can last 30 years. You bought an entry-level car that started to show its age after 8 years...that's a pretty good ENTRY-LEVEL car.
Again I find myself in the position to educate you about how the automotive industry works. Kia and Hyundai are both owned by the Hyundai Group, but they are not the same company. Most Kia products are produced in Kia plants while most Hyundai products are produced in Hyundai plants. Unlike Toyota and Lexus, which are designed and engineered by the same group, Hyundai and Kia have their own engineers, designers, and assembly personnel. Using Kia for comparison purposes doesn't work here. So you could have saved yourself a few hundred words of argument.
Nop! They don’t suck all of the cars manufacturers. Let’s see who’s sucks in the long term, in terms of reliability and durability.
Your comparisons of the long-term quality of "11 to 15" year old cars doesn't work at all. The basis of the entire thread, at least from the people making sense on it, has been that Hyundai's quality and durability has IMPROVED. Vehicles that are a decade and a half old cannot be used against the quality of the CURRENT lines of Hyundai vehicles. Strike two.
...Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki. Hyundai, as this study shown, is one of the junkiest junk!
By the way, as an owner of a 16-year old Suzuki, there are good and bad of every brand. There are bad Toyotas and there are Opels that can last 30 years. You bought an entry-level car that started to show its age after 8 years...that's a pretty good ENTRY-LEVEL car.
sofpan
09-11-2008, 03:56 AM
Hyundai has a lot stricter quality controls than Kia does, that is why they are ranked so much higher…….Even some of the older Hyundai and Kias were almost identical, but they were still built at different plants because of Hyundai's stricter quality controls
... Unlike Toyota and Lexus, which are designed and engineered by the same group, Hyundai and Kia have their own engineers, designers, and assembly personnel. Using Kia for comparison purposes doesn't work here</SPAN>.
Thanx Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson for admitting that in Hyundai Group, they sell two different cars/brands from the quality view. They sell us the junky Hyundais and they also sell us the junkiest KIAs.
Be careful KIA owners or potential buyers!
Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson, two “Hyundai Defenders” just in their last comments, admitted that KIAs are super junk.
Your comparisons of the long-term quality of "11 to 15" year old cars doesn't work at all.
Why? Because you are saying so? No, dear Hudson. A Canadian organization made a study and tells that. And of course, you have experience with cars because you have a relative job, but your experience can not be bigger than a study of an organization. So this study, that happens not to be mine (I didn’t do it, this Canadian organization did it), show us clearly that you can not find Hyundais in the roads in the long term. Why if not Hyundais have no quality and durability?
The basis of the entire thread, at least from the people making sense on it, has been that Hyundai's quality and durability has IMPROVED.
Hudson, you mustn’t have selective intelligence. In your comments, you mention only the rankings of Hyundai in US. The world is not only US.
In US market as the data of JD Power show, Hyundai ranked 13th, just a little above average. That’s not good. That’s is or lack or showing to us that Hyundai selectively, builds some relatively good cars from time to time, just to confuse the consumers.
Hyundais dear Hudson improved only in your mind. Because JD Power in its Survey in England ranked Hyundai in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. The three countries have a much bigger auto market than US, so this ‘european’ market is more important in sales size than US. The average position in this ‘european’ market for Hyundai is only 19th. Congratulations! …and we are speaking for 2008 surveys, so we means the new Hyundais that Hudson tell us that “have quality”(!)…nice joke Hudson… Do you know the other with Toto?
I –that I’m not having selective intelligence like you— will tell you in what position of JD Power surveys we can find Hyundai, counting US. Well in US Hyundai is in 13th position, the rest (England, Germany and France) are kwon, so the average position is: (13+17+19+21)/4=17.5 à 18. So in average, Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 18th, in the following markets: US, England, Germany and France. Congratulations again Hyundai for the quality you offer in your new cars!!! :dogpile:
Dear Hudson, the surveys of the Germanny’s ADAC and DEKRA are also showing Hyundai’s low quality and durability and for me, the most correct survey is this from DEKRA, that studies the problems considering the mileages. In the long mileage, Hyundai in all categories ranked below average… and we are speaking for new cars, not old.
So dear Hudson, you may say that Hyundai improved, but it seems to me that JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA (comment 79), Edmunds (comment 77) and R.L. Polk Canada (comment 83), all of them, belie you.
Dear Hudson (and every other “Hyundai Defender”), you have not comment yet, the comparison of Accent and X brand that made in Comment 61 and you haven’t answer me what is quality and reliability in a car.
Dear Hudson, don’t garble my words. My Accent served me relatively well for about 6 years having done totally no more than 35000 miles in those years. Not “started to show its age after 8 years” as you mentioned… Dear Hudson there is big difference between 6+ and 8+. So, from my experience Accent is junk.
…and from datas from JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA, Edmunds and R.L. Polk Canada, I conclude that generally Hyundai in the past and in the present, is junk !
…and when you have such a history… we can understand Hyundai’s future…. Junk!
http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_6028.gif
... Unlike Toyota and Lexus, which are designed and engineered by the same group, Hyundai and Kia have their own engineers, designers, and assembly personnel. Using Kia for comparison purposes doesn't work here</SPAN>.
Thanx Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson for admitting that in Hyundai Group, they sell two different cars/brands from the quality view. They sell us the junky Hyundais and they also sell us the junkiest KIAs.
Be careful KIA owners or potential buyers!
Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson, two “Hyundai Defenders” just in their last comments, admitted that KIAs are super junk.
Your comparisons of the long-term quality of "11 to 15" year old cars doesn't work at all.
Why? Because you are saying so? No, dear Hudson. A Canadian organization made a study and tells that. And of course, you have experience with cars because you have a relative job, but your experience can not be bigger than a study of an organization. So this study, that happens not to be mine (I didn’t do it, this Canadian organization did it), show us clearly that you can not find Hyundais in the roads in the long term. Why if not Hyundais have no quality and durability?
The basis of the entire thread, at least from the people making sense on it, has been that Hyundai's quality and durability has IMPROVED.
Hudson, you mustn’t have selective intelligence. In your comments, you mention only the rankings of Hyundai in US. The world is not only US.
In US market as the data of JD Power show, Hyundai ranked 13th, just a little above average. That’s not good. That’s is or lack or showing to us that Hyundai selectively, builds some relatively good cars from time to time, just to confuse the consumers.
Hyundais dear Hudson improved only in your mind. Because JD Power in its Survey in England ranked Hyundai in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. The three countries have a much bigger auto market than US, so this ‘european’ market is more important in sales size than US. The average position in this ‘european’ market for Hyundai is only 19th. Congratulations! …and we are speaking for 2008 surveys, so we means the new Hyundais that Hudson tell us that “have quality”(!)…nice joke Hudson… Do you know the other with Toto?
I –that I’m not having selective intelligence like you— will tell you in what position of JD Power surveys we can find Hyundai, counting US. Well in US Hyundai is in 13th position, the rest (England, Germany and France) are kwon, so the average position is: (13+17+19+21)/4=17.5 à 18. So in average, Hyundai (without its brother KIA) ranked 18th, in the following markets: US, England, Germany and France. Congratulations again Hyundai for the quality you offer in your new cars!!! :dogpile:
Dear Hudson, the surveys of the Germanny’s ADAC and DEKRA are also showing Hyundai’s low quality and durability and for me, the most correct survey is this from DEKRA, that studies the problems considering the mileages. In the long mileage, Hyundai in all categories ranked below average… and we are speaking for new cars, not old.
So dear Hudson, you may say that Hyundai improved, but it seems to me that JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA (comment 79), Edmunds (comment 77) and R.L. Polk Canada (comment 83), all of them, belie you.
Dear Hudson (and every other “Hyundai Defender”), you have not comment yet, the comparison of Accent and X brand that made in Comment 61 and you haven’t answer me what is quality and reliability in a car.
Dear Hudson, don’t garble my words. My Accent served me relatively well for about 6 years having done totally no more than 35000 miles in those years. Not “started to show its age after 8 years” as you mentioned… Dear Hudson there is big difference between 6+ and 8+. So, from my experience Accent is junk.
…and from datas from JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA, Edmunds and R.L. Polk Canada, I conclude that generally Hyundai in the past and in the present, is junk !
…and when you have such a history… we can understand Hyundai’s future…. Junk!
http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_6028.gif
Skywalker1977
09-11-2008, 06:55 PM
This thing is ridiculous! 1 Hyundai owner not happy about his Hyundai so he devotes all his energy in pissing off other Hyundai owners? How is posting on the sub-site of a sub-site of a small message board going to get Hyundai’s attention? I’m sure Hyundai is trembling in their boots now that an owner of a 10 year old Accent is venting his frustrations on the internet! :rolleyes: haha.
Dude, just get another car.
Dude, just get another car.
sofpan
09-12-2008, 03:12 AM
This thing is ridiculous!
Etymology/definition of the word “ridiculous” from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary: latin ridiculosus (from ridiculum jest, from neuter of ridiculus) or ridiculus, literally, laughable, from ridēre to laugh.
Let’s see… I worked about a year and a half, spending nothing, to accumulate the money to buy this Accent. In those 10 years I have it, Accent cost me a little fortune because of its high maintenance and service expenditures at the authorized points. I always drove “gently”, like a grandma (not fast, etc), I wasn’t pushing hard its machine, I’ve done –gradually- only about 70.7 k miles in a decade, this is about 6700 miles per years (very little)….and my Accent with those excellent I would say conditions and circumstances, appears –among others- this last malfunction. Sorry mate but this is unacceptable… I didn’t buy a vehicle–toy. I bought a car or I thought so… Man…I’m pissed off! :cya:
My claim for Hyundai Motors to fix for free, this last unacceptable malfunction is FAIR. None fair claim can be ridiculous. But surely, it is ridiculous the bad quality, reliability and durability of Hyundai, period!
If I am quaint and talking nonsense, Hyundai and everybody else has nothing to afraid... but if I am correct, then Hyundai must be afraid...
Dude, just get another car
I don’t know what are your salaries in US, what is the cost of life there and how much money you can put aside in a monthly basis, but here in Greece, the cost of life is quite high for someone who is not a thief/fraud (frauds have lots of money here and drive expensive SUVs). So, I don’t have the money to buy a new car. And even if I had the money, it wouldn’t be the priority. So, you or whoever say this thing, buy me a new car. I will be very thankful to you or anyone else for this. :icon16:
Of course, even if someone bought me a car, if this one was not Hyundai Motors, I would keep on showing to consumers the worthless of this Korean company, just because I respect the work and money of everybody, because money can not be found in the streets and everybody –well almost everybody because there are frauds- works hard to gain them. So with respect to my fellow consumers, I will keep on showing the low quality, reliability and durability of Hyundai/KIA Group.
I’ll keep on “rock” them!!!
http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_1300.gif
Etymology/definition of the word “ridiculous” from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary: latin ridiculosus (from ridiculum jest, from neuter of ridiculus) or ridiculus, literally, laughable, from ridēre to laugh.
Let’s see… I worked about a year and a half, spending nothing, to accumulate the money to buy this Accent. In those 10 years I have it, Accent cost me a little fortune because of its high maintenance and service expenditures at the authorized points. I always drove “gently”, like a grandma (not fast, etc), I wasn’t pushing hard its machine, I’ve done –gradually- only about 70.7 k miles in a decade, this is about 6700 miles per years (very little)….and my Accent with those excellent I would say conditions and circumstances, appears –among others- this last malfunction. Sorry mate but this is unacceptable… I didn’t buy a vehicle–toy. I bought a car or I thought so… Man…I’m pissed off! :cya:
My claim for Hyundai Motors to fix for free, this last unacceptable malfunction is FAIR. None fair claim can be ridiculous. But surely, it is ridiculous the bad quality, reliability and durability of Hyundai, period!
If I am quaint and talking nonsense, Hyundai and everybody else has nothing to afraid... but if I am correct, then Hyundai must be afraid...
Dude, just get another car
I don’t know what are your salaries in US, what is the cost of life there and how much money you can put aside in a monthly basis, but here in Greece, the cost of life is quite high for someone who is not a thief/fraud (frauds have lots of money here and drive expensive SUVs). So, I don’t have the money to buy a new car. And even if I had the money, it wouldn’t be the priority. So, you or whoever say this thing, buy me a new car. I will be very thankful to you or anyone else for this. :icon16:
Of course, even if someone bought me a car, if this one was not Hyundai Motors, I would keep on showing to consumers the worthless of this Korean company, just because I respect the work and money of everybody, because money can not be found in the streets and everybody –well almost everybody because there are frauds- works hard to gain them. So with respect to my fellow consumers, I will keep on showing the low quality, reliability and durability of Hyundai/KIA Group.
I’ll keep on “rock” them!!!
http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_1300.gif
cmhj2000
09-12-2008, 05:59 AM
This thing is ridiculous! 1 Hyundai owner not happy about his Hyundai so he devotes all his energy in pissing off other Hyundai owners? How is posting on the sub-site of a sub-site of a small message board going to get Hyundai’s attention? I’m sure Hyundai is trembling in their boots now that an owner of a 10 year old Accent is venting his frustrations on the internet! :rolleyes: haha.
Dude, just get another car.
ROFL
Right on! Like a dog with a bone. :screwy:
I've seen wasted bandwidth, oops I just wasted some more. :lol2:
Dude, just get another car.
ROFL
Right on! Like a dog with a bone. :screwy:
I've seen wasted bandwidth, oops I just wasted some more. :lol2:
Hudson
09-12-2008, 12:55 PM
Thanx Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson for admitting that in Hyundai Group, they sell two different cars/brands from the quality view.
My comment was not "admitting" anything, it was simply stating the facts. Hyundai Group owns Hyundai Motors and Kia Motors, two different companies. You read your opinion into my simple statement of fact.
Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson, two “Hyundai Defenders” just in their last comments, admitted that KIAs are super junk.
Again...no, didn't happen. Simply stated that they are both parts of the same larger corporation.
In US market as the data of JD Power show, Hyundai ranked 13th, just a little above average. That’s not good...
It's better than MORE THAN HALF of the companies surveyed. That's not BAD.
Hyundais dear Hudson improved only in your mind...
And in EVERY survey you can possibly find.
Because JD Power in its Survey in England ranked Hyundai in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. The three countries have a much bigger auto market than US, so this ‘european’ market is more important in sales size than US...
Surprise, but you're WRONG again. The American market is only slightly smaller than the ENTIRE European market. Meaning that you'd have to add in Spain and Italy and a few other countries before you were talking about a "much bigger auto market than US." Last year, Germany (3.5 million), UK (2.8 million), and France (2.6 million) combined for 8,865,934 new vehicles sold...while the US had a bad year and only sold about 15 million.
Additionally, how many brands were surveyed in the UK, German, and French surveys? Ranking 17th or 19th or 21st means NOTHING if you don't know the size of the survey. Was this out of 22 or 122? There's a big difference.
...so the average position is: (13+17+19+21)/4=17.5...
Selective intelligence? You can't simply average positions and state that this is a meaningful statitistic. If 13th out of 35 (like in the US) is averged in with 17th out of, say, 100...how meaningful would that be? Or 17th out of 17? Useless "statistic" on your part.
[FONT=Arial]So dear Hudson, you may say that Hyundai improved, but it seems to me that JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA (comment 79), Edmunds (comment 77) and R.L. Polk Canada (comment 83), all of them, belie you.
Actually, they all back me up. In order to MAINTAIN a position within a given survey, any company would have to IMPROVE their quality since everyone else is improving their quality. You can even improve your quality and lose positions when others improve their quality more. And since Hyundai was regularly ranked at among the BOTTOM of every survey just 15-20 years ago, being ranked 17th or 13th or 21st is an improvement. Think of the dozen or so companies that Hyundai PASSED!
Dear Hudson, don’t garble my words.
I can quote you directly. You've made almost no sense since your first post. You keep confusing mileage and age. Cars deteriorate over time AND mileage. These two are not mutually exclusive. A 1-year old 200,000km car will have problems and a 10-year old 60,000km car will have problems. It's just a fact. And once ANY car passes 5 or 10 years, the problems will just increase...no matter how many miles you put on it. No matter how many times you argue it, this is how the world works. If you can build a better car, do it. I'm sure you cannot.
from my experience Accent is junk.
From your experience, your car was very good and reliable for the average life of a car...which is about 7 years. You have wild expectations that an elderly car should be as good as it was when it was new. Your car is ANCIENT...get used to it. If it were an Opel or a Rolls-Royce or a Porsche or a Toyota, only the most delusional and uneducated would think that burning some oil at 11 years of age would be a sign of a poor quality car.
…and [FONT=Arial]from datas from JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA, Edmunds and R.L. Polk Canada, I conclude that generally Hyundai in the past and in the present, is junk !
Hint for you, don't go into statistical analysis, because you obviously don't understand it.
My comment was not "admitting" anything, it was simply stating the facts. Hyundai Group owns Hyundai Motors and Kia Motors, two different companies. You read your opinion into my simple statement of fact.
Lowsonoma1999 and Hudson, two “Hyundai Defenders” just in their last comments, admitted that KIAs are super junk.
Again...no, didn't happen. Simply stated that they are both parts of the same larger corporation.
In US market as the data of JD Power show, Hyundai ranked 13th, just a little above average. That’s not good...
It's better than MORE THAN HALF of the companies surveyed. That's not BAD.
Hyundais dear Hudson improved only in your mind...
And in EVERY survey you can possibly find.
Because JD Power in its Survey in England ranked Hyundai in 17th position, in Germany ranked 19th and in France ranked 21st. The three countries have a much bigger auto market than US, so this ‘european’ market is more important in sales size than US...
Surprise, but you're WRONG again. The American market is only slightly smaller than the ENTIRE European market. Meaning that you'd have to add in Spain and Italy and a few other countries before you were talking about a "much bigger auto market than US." Last year, Germany (3.5 million), UK (2.8 million), and France (2.6 million) combined for 8,865,934 new vehicles sold...while the US had a bad year and only sold about 15 million.
Additionally, how many brands were surveyed in the UK, German, and French surveys? Ranking 17th or 19th or 21st means NOTHING if you don't know the size of the survey. Was this out of 22 or 122? There's a big difference.
...so the average position is: (13+17+19+21)/4=17.5...
Selective intelligence? You can't simply average positions and state that this is a meaningful statitistic. If 13th out of 35 (like in the US) is averged in with 17th out of, say, 100...how meaningful would that be? Or 17th out of 17? Useless "statistic" on your part.
[FONT=Arial]So dear Hudson, you may say that Hyundai improved, but it seems to me that JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA (comment 79), Edmunds (comment 77) and R.L. Polk Canada (comment 83), all of them, belie you.
Actually, they all back me up. In order to MAINTAIN a position within a given survey, any company would have to IMPROVE their quality since everyone else is improving their quality. You can even improve your quality and lose positions when others improve their quality more. And since Hyundai was regularly ranked at among the BOTTOM of every survey just 15-20 years ago, being ranked 17th or 13th or 21st is an improvement. Think of the dozen or so companies that Hyundai PASSED!
Dear Hudson, don’t garble my words.
I can quote you directly. You've made almost no sense since your first post. You keep confusing mileage and age. Cars deteriorate over time AND mileage. These two are not mutually exclusive. A 1-year old 200,000km car will have problems and a 10-year old 60,000km car will have problems. It's just a fact. And once ANY car passes 5 or 10 years, the problems will just increase...no matter how many miles you put on it. No matter how many times you argue it, this is how the world works. If you can build a better car, do it. I'm sure you cannot.
from my experience Accent is junk.
From your experience, your car was very good and reliable for the average life of a car...which is about 7 years. You have wild expectations that an elderly car should be as good as it was when it was new. Your car is ANCIENT...get used to it. If it were an Opel or a Rolls-Royce or a Porsche or a Toyota, only the most delusional and uneducated would think that burning some oil at 11 years of age would be a sign of a poor quality car.
…and [FONT=Arial]from datas from JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA, Edmunds and R.L. Polk Canada, I conclude that generally Hyundai in the past and in the present, is junk !
Hint for you, don't go into statistical analysis, because you obviously don't understand it.
Greenblurr93
09-12-2008, 01:35 PM
I honestly think at this point this is some lonely 16 year old boy who has nothing better to do on his parents computer than to string you guys along with meaningless posts... and to be quite honest... its very entertaining to think that someone could be either:
A. this naive
B. have nothing better to do with his life
A. this naive
B. have nothing better to do with his life
Skywalker1977
09-12-2008, 06:01 PM
ROFL
Right on! Like a dog with a bone. :screwy:
I've seen wasted bandwidth, oops I just wasted some more. :lol2:
Yea. This is a good time waster too!
I'm bored so I'll bite.
Let's see what happens when I do this
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Right on! Like a dog with a bone. :screwy:
I've seen wasted bandwidth, oops I just wasted some more. :lol2:
Yea. This is a good time waster too!
I'm bored so I'll bite.
Let's see what happens when I do this
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
sofpan
09-15-2008, 04:39 AM
Dedicated to “Hyundai Defenders”, with love:
I copy from Edmunds.com:
“Lowest True Cost to OwnSM Vehicles for September 2008
Have you ever wondered which new vehicles are the least expensive to own? We're talking about the vehicles not necessarily with the lowest purchase price, but with the lowest total ownership cost? Well, Edmunds.com's editors and data analysts decided to roll up their sleeves and figure that out.
We started by gathering all of the necessary data, and then used our proprietary True Cost to OwnSM (TCOSM) algorithms to estimate the five-year cost of owning each new vehicle currently in the market. The result is our list of those vehicles with the lowest overall ownership cost in their respective segments. A vehicle's competitive segment is determined by body type and the sales-weighted average MSRP of all styles within the model/body type combination.”
Pssstttt… buddies…. guess what… Hyundai is absent from all categories. As you can see, Hyundai Motors despite that is in the 7th position of annual global sales (just because it has cheap cars that seems to be good, without to be), is absent from this list. Hyundai is absent from the list because it has a big overall cost in the long term.
So, Hyundai is Worthless.
This study agree with me, in the theoretical example that I made in comment 61 with the comparison of Accent and X brand. Enjoy…
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2008/index.html (http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2008/index.html)
No other brand of the top selling, sucks so much….. piahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! :puke:
--------------------------------------------------------à>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now see what I'll do when I would like to get rid off my junk Accent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VD-PNfqOFI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VD-PNfqOFI)
I will go at the back side of car, where it says the name of the model and I will change “Accent” to “Accident”!
In the video you just show, it isn’t random that this junk car was a Hyundai…
http://avatars.jurko.net/uploads/avatar_12633.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------
For the Webmaster of this site: why the Poll that I opened in this Thread is closed?
I had define the Poll to last long. Why is closed?
I copy from Edmunds.com:
“Lowest True Cost to OwnSM Vehicles for September 2008
Have you ever wondered which new vehicles are the least expensive to own? We're talking about the vehicles not necessarily with the lowest purchase price, but with the lowest total ownership cost? Well, Edmunds.com's editors and data analysts decided to roll up their sleeves and figure that out.
We started by gathering all of the necessary data, and then used our proprietary True Cost to OwnSM (TCOSM) algorithms to estimate the five-year cost of owning each new vehicle currently in the market. The result is our list of those vehicles with the lowest overall ownership cost in their respective segments. A vehicle's competitive segment is determined by body type and the sales-weighted average MSRP of all styles within the model/body type combination.”
Pssstttt… buddies…. guess what… Hyundai is absent from all categories. As you can see, Hyundai Motors despite that is in the 7th position of annual global sales (just because it has cheap cars that seems to be good, without to be), is absent from this list. Hyundai is absent from the list because it has a big overall cost in the long term.
So, Hyundai is Worthless.
This study agree with me, in the theoretical example that I made in comment 61 with the comparison of Accent and X brand. Enjoy…
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2008/index.html (http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/tco/2008/index.html)
No other brand of the top selling, sucks so much….. piahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! :puke:
--------------------------------------------------------à>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now see what I'll do when I would like to get rid off my junk Accent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VD-PNfqOFI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VD-PNfqOFI)
I will go at the back side of car, where it says the name of the model and I will change “Accent” to “Accident”!
In the video you just show, it isn’t random that this junk car was a Hyundai…
http://avatars.jurko.net/uploads/avatar_12633.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------
For the Webmaster of this site: why the Poll that I opened in this Thread is closed?
I had define the Poll to last long. Why is closed?
gob 455
09-15-2008, 05:44 AM
I had 2 friends that bought Hyundais back in the early 90's. They were junk by the time they had 90,000mi on them. I don't see alot of them in my shop thiese days. I have put 3 air flow sensors in one 01 Accent in the last year and a half, but this car has 160,000mi on it and is realy beatup.I also have had a lot of trouble with parts quality this year. I think Hyundais quality has improved is because it can. Toyota and Honda have been building quality cars for 25 years, and fetch a preimum price new or used. Their reputation procedes them, and they have a loyal customer base to justify this cost. Hyundai can only improve, where Honda and Toyota have toped out. So, unless they spend more money (which will drive up the price) there is no room for improvment. Hyundai sells their cars for less, so they can spend more on improvments and still under cut Honda and Toyotas price. That is why the quality has improved and is getting closer if not comperable to Honda and Toyota. The same thing is happening with Kia.
cmhj2000
09-15-2008, 07:59 AM
Yea. This is a good time waster too!
I'm bored so I'll bite.
Let's see what happens when I do this
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hey that's great.
Anything to keep the useless but at times entertaining noise coming. :runaround:
I'm bored so I'll bite.
Let's see what happens when I do this
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hey that's great.
Anything to keep the useless but at times entertaining noise coming. :runaround:
Skywalker1977
09-15-2008, 09:16 AM
[quote=sofpan]Dedicated to “Hyundai Defenders”, with love:
I copy from Edmunds.com:
This is pretty funny:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
I challange you sir !
I too copy from Edmunds
"Hyundai is a Korean automaker with a product line that has improved considerably over the past few years."
http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/history.html
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
What say you!
I copy from Edmunds.com:
This is pretty funny:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
I challange you sir !
I too copy from Edmunds
"Hyundai is a Korean automaker with a product line that has improved considerably over the past few years."
http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/history.html
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
What say you!
Skywalker1977
09-15-2008, 05:04 PM
No long winded, link riddled, emoticon fulled, rational less comback?
I WIN!
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
I WIN!
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
cmhj2000
09-15-2008, 08:00 PM
No long winded, link riddled, emoticon fulled, rational less comback?
Carefull or he'll blow a head gasket and that'll be Hyundai's fault too. :crying:
Carefull or he'll blow a head gasket and that'll be Hyundai's fault too. :crying:
sofpan
09-16-2008, 04:27 AM
To Hyundai fanny Skywalker1977 (brainless fan of Hyundai).
http://avatars.jurko.net/uploads/avatar_17434.gif
So dear Skywalker1977 in the same link that you gave, in Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/history.html (http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/history.html)
it writes: “…Unfortunately, Hyundai's nascent image was soon tarnished by the poor durability and reliability of its vehicles….”. Ooooooppppssss!!!! Hyundai à No quality, durability and reliability…
….And a summary because the summary is the mother of knowledge.
Edmunds - Top 10 Cars With the Worst Residual Value for 2008 (in comment 77): Hyundai Group bottoms with 5 to 10 cars with the worst value. …the nowadays Hyundais, not the oldies…
Edmunds - Lowest True Cost to Own Vehicles for Sept. 2008 (comment 94):
Hyundai is absent from all categories. As you can see, Hyundai Motors despite that is in the 7th position of annual global sales (just because it has cheap cars that seems to be good, without to be), is absent from this list. Hyundai is absent from the list because it has a big overall cost in the long term.
JD Power- VDS Study 2008 for US (comment 79): Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability. For me, the 13th position for a manufacturer that is in the 7th position of global annual sales is Failure. Hyundai in 13th position was marginally above the average (so... I say it was lucky this time).
And consider that the Study is for the 3 years old vehicles. I don't believe that 3 years is "long term". For cars age 3 years it’s a medium term, not long term.
JD Power Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey (comment 79):
In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th between all Manufactures (what a quality!?!?), from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. So “Hyundai Defenders” as we can see from the decreasing absolute points that Hyundai gets, is proving that quality is not stable but many times is decreasing. Understand it?
In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th between all Manufactures, from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006. Conclusion: Worst Hyundai cars than previous years. Understand it?
In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st between all Manufactures, from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2006 showing to us that Hyundai cars are bad but getting even worse than previous years.
Germany’s ADAC last reliability 2008 study (comment 79): we found 3 korean models, the Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson in the lists of ADAC. Those models took the last position in their category… Hyundai’s Group high “quality” of nowadays cars… Great!
Germany's DEKRA releases 2008 car reliability report (comment 79): Hyundai in the high mileage is absent and as I saw in these lists, Hyundai was below the average of all brands. That means that Hyundai had more problems than average.
DesRosiers Automotive Consultants with data from R.L. Polk Canada (comment 83): the percentage of old cars (11 to 15 years old) that are still on the roads, according to this Organization. Hyundai is in 30th position among 33 manufactures, ranked 4th from the Bottom. Once again, Hyundai bottoms! The proportion of old Hyundais that is still in use in the roads, is 32.8%, when the average is 60.6%. Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki.
Studies have shown Hyundai's Worthless
So, I show you studies from Edmunds, JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA, DesRosiers Automotive Consultants and Top Gear (remember Accent as The Worst Car of 2004 and the video with the worst cars of the century?), all of them showing that Hyundai in medium term (3 to 6 years) sucks! And I tell you that in the long term (11 to 15 years) Hyundai is one of the champions of Worthless (see DesRosiers Automotive Consultants, in comment 83).
...but 3, maybe 5 fannys support/defend Hyundai
Now… you Skywalker, my friend Hudson and my buddy lowsonoma1999, all this crowd of 3 people, maybe there are another two of them (sorry if I forgot someone), they say that Hyundai is a cars’ brand with quality and durability… well… you are wrong.
If you ask me if Hyundai improved in general, from 1990 to 2000+, I’ll answer you that maybe Hyundai improved a little, but that doesn’t mean that the improvement was enough to reach the quality standards that must have a cars company that in the 7th position of annual global sales.
Hyundai back in ’90 was Junk in the power of 3, now it is Junk in the power of 2.
What an improvement?!?!?! Less Junk than before! And of course, the improvement is not stable as I show you some lines above (underlng) in JD Power studies in England, Germany and France.
Dudes,
http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_7393.jpg
I scored first 100!
http://avatars.jurko.net/uploads/avatar_17434.gif
So dear Skywalker1977 in the same link that you gave, in Edmunds
http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/history.html (http://www.edmunds.com/hyundai/history.html)
it writes: “…Unfortunately, Hyundai's nascent image was soon tarnished by the poor durability and reliability of its vehicles….”. Ooooooppppssss!!!! Hyundai à No quality, durability and reliability…
….And a summary because the summary is the mother of knowledge.
Edmunds - Top 10 Cars With the Worst Residual Value for 2008 (in comment 77): Hyundai Group bottoms with 5 to 10 cars with the worst value. …the nowadays Hyundais, not the oldies…
Edmunds - Lowest True Cost to Own Vehicles for Sept. 2008 (comment 94):
Hyundai is absent from all categories. As you can see, Hyundai Motors despite that is in the 7th position of annual global sales (just because it has cheap cars that seems to be good, without to be), is absent from this list. Hyundai is absent from the list because it has a big overall cost in the long term.
JD Power- VDS Study 2008 for US (comment 79): Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability. For me, the 13th position for a manufacturer that is in the 7th position of global annual sales is Failure. Hyundai in 13th position was marginally above the average (so... I say it was lucky this time).
And consider that the Study is for the 3 years old vehicles. I don't believe that 3 years is "long term". For cars age 3 years it’s a medium term, not long term.
JD Power Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey (comment 79):
In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th between all Manufactures (what a quality!?!?), from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. So “Hyundai Defenders” as we can see from the decreasing absolute points that Hyundai gets, is proving that quality is not stable but many times is decreasing. Understand it?
In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th between all Manufactures, from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006. Conclusion: Worst Hyundai cars than previous years. Understand it?
In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st between all Manufactures, from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down from 2006 showing to us that Hyundai cars are bad but getting even worse than previous years.
Germany’s ADAC last reliability 2008 study (comment 79): we found 3 korean models, the Hyundai Getz, KIA Picanto and Hyundai Tucson in the lists of ADAC. Those models took the last position in their category… Hyundai’s Group high “quality” of nowadays cars… Great!
Germany's DEKRA releases 2008 car reliability report (comment 79): Hyundai in the high mileage is absent and as I saw in these lists, Hyundai was below the average of all brands. That means that Hyundai had more problems than average.
DesRosiers Automotive Consultants with data from R.L. Polk Canada (comment 83): the percentage of old cars (11 to 15 years old) that are still on the roads, according to this Organization. Hyundai is in 30th position among 33 manufactures, ranked 4th from the Bottom. Once again, Hyundai bottoms! The proportion of old Hyundais that is still in use in the roads, is 32.8%, when the average is 60.6%. Hyundai is only above Lada, Isuzu, Suzuki.
Studies have shown Hyundai's Worthless
So, I show you studies from Edmunds, JD Power, ADAC, DEKRA, DesRosiers Automotive Consultants and Top Gear (remember Accent as The Worst Car of 2004 and the video with the worst cars of the century?), all of them showing that Hyundai in medium term (3 to 6 years) sucks! And I tell you that in the long term (11 to 15 years) Hyundai is one of the champions of Worthless (see DesRosiers Automotive Consultants, in comment 83).
...but 3, maybe 5 fannys support/defend Hyundai
Now… you Skywalker, my friend Hudson and my buddy lowsonoma1999, all this crowd of 3 people, maybe there are another two of them (sorry if I forgot someone), they say that Hyundai is a cars’ brand with quality and durability… well… you are wrong.
If you ask me if Hyundai improved in general, from 1990 to 2000+, I’ll answer you that maybe Hyundai improved a little, but that doesn’t mean that the improvement was enough to reach the quality standards that must have a cars company that in the 7th position of annual global sales.
Hyundai back in ’90 was Junk in the power of 3, now it is Junk in the power of 2.
What an improvement?!?!?! Less Junk than before! And of course, the improvement is not stable as I show you some lines above (underlng) in JD Power studies in England, Germany and France.
Dudes,
http://img1.jurko.net/avatar_7393.jpg
I scored first 100!
cmhj2000
09-16-2008, 07:34 AM
Same old dog, same old bone. Waiting for something new. :disappoin
sofpan
09-16-2008, 08:16 AM
Dear cmhj2000....I'll tell you only one thing:
Oldies but Goodies!
http://avatars.jurko.net/uploads/avatar_15436.gif
Oldies but Goodies!
http://avatars.jurko.net/uploads/avatar_15436.gif
Hudson
09-16-2008, 12:03 PM
Since most of your post is not worth replying to (or already has been covered to DEATH), I'll, once again, point out how little you know here.
JD Power- VDS Study 2008 for US (comment 79): Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability. For me, the 13th position for a manufacturer that is in the 7th position of global annual sales is Failure. Hyundai in 13th position was marginally above the average (so... I say it was lucky this time).
Your quoted ranking of 13th position is among car BRANDS whereas the ranking of 7th among MANUFACTURERS...two different concepts. The manufacturers who rank above Hyundai in the quoted JD Power survey are Toyota (Toyota and Lexus), Ford (Mercury, Lincoln, Jaguar), GM (Cadillac, Buick), Honda (Acura, Honda), BMW, Porsche, and Mitsubishi. Wow! That's 7 manufacturers who have brands above Hyundai...and you believe that there are only 6 manufacturers larger than Hyundai?
And the luck you speak of is not there either. Hyundai's score has improved every year over the past three surveys faster than the rest of the industry, showing a steady improvement over time...hardly luck. In the past four surveys, Hyundai's score has surpassed such great names as Volkswagen, Mini, Saab, Mercedes-Benz (2005 and 2008), Porsche (2006 and 2007), and Volvo.
JD Power- VDS Study 2008 for US (comment 79): Hyundai is in the 13th position in Overall Dependability. For me, the 13th position for a manufacturer that is in the 7th position of global annual sales is Failure. Hyundai in 13th position was marginally above the average (so... I say it was lucky this time).
Your quoted ranking of 13th position is among car BRANDS whereas the ranking of 7th among MANUFACTURERS...two different concepts. The manufacturers who rank above Hyundai in the quoted JD Power survey are Toyota (Toyota and Lexus), Ford (Mercury, Lincoln, Jaguar), GM (Cadillac, Buick), Honda (Acura, Honda), BMW, Porsche, and Mitsubishi. Wow! That's 7 manufacturers who have brands above Hyundai...and you believe that there are only 6 manufacturers larger than Hyundai?
And the luck you speak of is not there either. Hyundai's score has improved every year over the past three surveys faster than the rest of the industry, showing a steady improvement over time...hardly luck. In the past four surveys, Hyundai's score has surpassed such great names as Volkswagen, Mini, Saab, Mercedes-Benz (2005 and 2008), Porsche (2006 and 2007), and Volvo.
Skywalker1977
09-16-2008, 01:41 PM
Same old dog, same old bone. Waiting for something new. :disappoin
Yea. His reply was a little on the weak side and a little late. I guess he was trying to find that cool "clapping joker" pic. But still, I give it a 6.5
Long winded and rational less but not as long like the others, points for the pic though. And what happened to all the links and emoticons? Is he losing the balance between ridiculous and pointless? Still, isn't his resistance against futility is amazing!
I'm not just waiting for him to blow a gasket but for his head to explod!:biggrin:
“…Unfortunately, Hyundai's nascent image was soon tarnished by the poor durability and reliability of its vehicles….”. our resident Hyundai Hater
............HOW DARE YOU SIR! How conveniently you leave out the rest of that Edmunds statement! YOU WITLESS COWARD!
"However, rather than abandon the American market in the '90s, Hyundai chose to invest heavily in new product designs and improvements in overall quality and reliability." - Edmunds
I WIN!
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Yea. His reply was a little on the weak side and a little late. I guess he was trying to find that cool "clapping joker" pic. But still, I give it a 6.5
Long winded and rational less but not as long like the others, points for the pic though. And what happened to all the links and emoticons? Is he losing the balance between ridiculous and pointless? Still, isn't his resistance against futility is amazing!
I'm not just waiting for him to blow a gasket but for his head to explod!:biggrin:
“…Unfortunately, Hyundai's nascent image was soon tarnished by the poor durability and reliability of its vehicles….”. our resident Hyundai Hater
............HOW DARE YOU SIR! How conveniently you leave out the rest of that Edmunds statement! YOU WITLESS COWARD!
"However, rather than abandon the American market in the '90s, Hyundai chose to invest heavily in new product designs and improvements in overall quality and reliability." - Edmunds
I WIN!
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
hermes_1
09-16-2008, 09:23 PM
Dedicated to “Hyundai Defenders”, with love:
I copy from Edmunds.com:
You are quite the nut job, sport, or have too much time on your hands.
I'm looking for a used car and find the '06 elantra is highly recommended as evidenced by thr following.
Consumer Reports 2008 Best Small sedan - Hyundai elantra se
consumers report recommended used car - Hyundai Elantra
Consumer Reports Used Car Verdict - very good to excellent for the '06 elantra, which I'm going to buy
kelley blue book 375 reviews 4.4 out of five stars
edmunds.com reviews '06 Hyundai Elantra editors rating 7.5 out of ten consumers rating 8.8
edmunds consumers top rated $15k - $25k Hyundai Azera
************************************************** **
I copy from Edmunds.com:
You are quite the nut job, sport, or have too much time on your hands.
I'm looking for a used car and find the '06 elantra is highly recommended as evidenced by thr following.
Consumer Reports 2008 Best Small sedan - Hyundai elantra se
consumers report recommended used car - Hyundai Elantra
Consumer Reports Used Car Verdict - very good to excellent for the '06 elantra, which I'm going to buy
kelley blue book 375 reviews 4.4 out of five stars
edmunds.com reviews '06 Hyundai Elantra editors rating 7.5 out of ten consumers rating 8.8
edmunds consumers top rated $15k - $25k Hyundai Azera
************************************************** **
lowsonoma1999
09-16-2008, 10:07 PM
I might as well throw this out there too. Out of the October 2008 issue of Motor Trend magazine, with a road test of the new Genesis V8. This is a direct quote.
".......and projected three-year residual value, which according to Automotive Lease Guide, ranks above that of the BMW 550i, Infiniti M45, Lexus GS460, and Mercedes E550."
See, there resale value is slowly moving up over the years, but I guess you still won't understand that either.
".......and projected three-year residual value, which according to Automotive Lease Guide, ranks above that of the BMW 550i, Infiniti M45, Lexus GS460, and Mercedes E550."
See, there resale value is slowly moving up over the years, but I guess you still won't understand that either.
lowsonoma1999
09-16-2008, 10:12 PM
Consumer Reports Used Car Verdict - very good to excellent for the '06 elantra, which I'm going to buy
Good choice btw. I like the '04-'06 Elantras best out of all their years. The '07+ take some getting used to, especially with the electric steering.
Good choice btw. I like the '04-'06 Elantras best out of all their years. The '07+ take some getting used to, especially with the electric steering.
hermes_1
09-16-2008, 10:39 PM
Good choice btw. I like the '04-'06 Elantras best out of all their years. The '07+ take some getting used to, especially with the electric steering.
I started out by looking for a Honda Civic or Toyota Corallo '06 '07 but in the Baltimore area they cost just a $1,00.00 or so less than a new one.
How can i check to see if the Elantra has ABS brakes and possibly ECS suspension? I live in the city so I might go w/ the SE but have the dealer swap the alloy wheels for steel wheels. I believe the steel wheels are 15" and the alloy wheels are 16" will that effect handling?
I started out by looking for a Honda Civic or Toyota Corallo '06 '07 but in the Baltimore area they cost just a $1,00.00 or so less than a new one.
How can i check to see if the Elantra has ABS brakes and possibly ECS suspension? I live in the city so I might go w/ the SE but have the dealer swap the alloy wheels for steel wheels. I believe the steel wheels are 15" and the alloy wheels are 16" will that effect handling?
sofpan
09-17-2008, 03:29 AM
http://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gif
To fanny ‘Skywalker1977’ (the picture above dedicated from me to you, I believe showing your character): You are repeating that Hyundai rules. I saw in your Profile, that you own a 2005 Ford Taurus. So mate, instead of nonsense bla, bla, bla, I suggest you “Put your Money where your Mouth is”. :slap:
Sell the Ford and buy the Hyundai that you support. If you do it, you will Regret it and lose your Money. Go ahead mate, if you dare…
To Hudson:
And the luck you speak of is not there either. Hyundai's score has improved every year
Let’s see the ‘every year improvement’: JD Power Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey (comment 79):
In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th between all Manufactures from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. Hudson, 789 of 2008 is smaller than 795 of 2007, so we have Hyundai’s decrease of quality (=satisfaction) between the two years in absolute points… and the points that gets, are irrelevant to other car manufacturers. In this study Hyundai with the points that gets every year, is only competing itself (the performance that Hyundai had in the previous year).
No other solution than Hyundai decrease the (poor) quality that has.
Is this the only example? No. Because…“Once a junkie, always a junkie”.
In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th, from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. 792 points < 795 points < 813 points. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006 (for 3 consecutive years). Hmmm… Hudson, do you see quality’s increase here?
In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st, from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down between 2008 and 2006 showing to us that Hyundai cars are bad but getting even worse than previous years. Watch that the points Hyundai gets in France are smaller than these that gets in Britain and Germany.
Conclusion: Worst Hyundai cars than previous years, period!
Understand it?
In the past four surveys, Hyundai's score has surpassed such great names as Volkswagen, Mini, Saab, Mercedes-Benz (2005 and 2008), Porsche (2006 and 2007), and Volvo.
Now Hudson you have a selective intelligence. Because you refer only to US study and avoid the studies of the same organisation (JD Power) in England, Germany, France. In these Countries, almost all these brands that you mention, are above Hyundai. Check the relative links again.
So dear Hudson the facts belie you: Hyundai as it seems from the facts, has low quality and durability in the long term and the quality construction is not stable, in some years Hyundai increase the quality (just to confuse consumers) and some others decreases the quality. Studies shown that!
To Hermes 1: Did you read the comments where I criticize Hyundai? And you want to buy a Hyundai? Well… it’s your money… if you like you can also burn them.
Don’t you wonder yourself why all the “Hyundai Defenders” we have here, avoid to answer and define what is Quality and Durability in a Car, despite my continuous questions? Why is that, if not because Hyundai has no quality?
And now, some new things:
Let’s see now the list of the best cars, according to consumers’ reports.
Fun to drive - Mazda MX-5 Miata
Small SUV - Toyota RAV4
Small sedan - Honda Civic
Family sedan - Honda Accord
Minivan - Toyota Sienna
Luxury sedan - Infiniti M35
Midsized SUV - Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Budget cars - Honda Fit
Green car - Toyota Prius
Upscale sedan - Infiniti G35
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/japan-on-top-in-consumer-reports%e2%80%99-list-of-best-cars/ (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/japan-on-top-in-consumer-reports%e2%80%99-list-of-best-cars/)
See? Japs cars rule. Consumers reports say that. Hyundai is absent. Why? Whoever has sense, can understand…
http://img1.jurko.net/image.jpg
To fanny ‘Skywalker1977’ (the picture above dedicated from me to you, I believe showing your character): You are repeating that Hyundai rules. I saw in your Profile, that you own a 2005 Ford Taurus. So mate, instead of nonsense bla, bla, bla, I suggest you “Put your Money where your Mouth is”. :slap:
Sell the Ford and buy the Hyundai that you support. If you do it, you will Regret it and lose your Money. Go ahead mate, if you dare…
To Hudson:
And the luck you speak of is not there either. Hyundai's score has improved every year
Let’s see the ‘every year improvement’: JD Power Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey (comment 79):
In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th between all Manufactures from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. Hudson, 789 of 2008 is smaller than 795 of 2007, so we have Hyundai’s decrease of quality (=satisfaction) between the two years in absolute points… and the points that gets, are irrelevant to other car manufacturers. In this study Hyundai with the points that gets every year, is only competing itself (the performance that Hyundai had in the previous year).
No other solution than Hyundai decrease the (poor) quality that has.
Is this the only example? No. Because…“Once a junkie, always a junkie”.
In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th, from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. 792 points < 795 points < 813 points. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006 (for 3 consecutive years). Hmmm… Hudson, do you see quality’s increase here?
In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st, from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down between 2008 and 2006 showing to us that Hyundai cars are bad but getting even worse than previous years. Watch that the points Hyundai gets in France are smaller than these that gets in Britain and Germany.
Conclusion: Worst Hyundai cars than previous years, period!
Understand it?
In the past four surveys, Hyundai's score has surpassed such great names as Volkswagen, Mini, Saab, Mercedes-Benz (2005 and 2008), Porsche (2006 and 2007), and Volvo.
Now Hudson you have a selective intelligence. Because you refer only to US study and avoid the studies of the same organisation (JD Power) in England, Germany, France. In these Countries, almost all these brands that you mention, are above Hyundai. Check the relative links again.
So dear Hudson the facts belie you: Hyundai as it seems from the facts, has low quality and durability in the long term and the quality construction is not stable, in some years Hyundai increase the quality (just to confuse consumers) and some others decreases the quality. Studies shown that!
To Hermes 1: Did you read the comments where I criticize Hyundai? And you want to buy a Hyundai? Well… it’s your money… if you like you can also burn them.
Don’t you wonder yourself why all the “Hyundai Defenders” we have here, avoid to answer and define what is Quality and Durability in a Car, despite my continuous questions? Why is that, if not because Hyundai has no quality?
And now, some new things:
Let’s see now the list of the best cars, according to consumers’ reports.
Fun to drive - Mazda MX-5 Miata
Small SUV - Toyota RAV4
Small sedan - Honda Civic
Family sedan - Honda Accord
Minivan - Toyota Sienna
Luxury sedan - Infiniti M35
Midsized SUV - Toyota Highlander Hybrid
Budget cars - Honda Fit
Green car - Toyota Prius
Upscale sedan - Infiniti G35
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/japan-on-top-in-consumer-reports%e2%80%99-list-of-best-cars/ (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/japan-on-top-in-consumer-reports%e2%80%99-list-of-best-cars/)
See? Japs cars rule. Consumers reports say that. Hyundai is absent. Why? Whoever has sense, can understand…
http://img1.jurko.net/image.jpg
Hudson
09-17-2008, 08:13 AM
There's an old saying "people who live in glass houses should not throw stones." Selective intelligence?
Let’s see the ‘every year improvement’: JD Power Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey (comment 79):[/FONT]
"Total Satisfaction" does NOT equal quality, as you are trying to state. "Total Satisfaction" takes into account dealer service and sales along with many other non-product related items.
I use the US Vehicle Dependabilty Survey because it meets YOUR demand for long-term measurement and it's among the MOST reliable surveys as it has a long track record. The VDS numbers for Hyundai have gone DOWN (lower is better) every year and at a rate faster than the rest of the market, which is apparent in its better ranking year after year.
Besides, your quoted numbers vary no more than 2%. That's within statistical error of being FLAT, not going down. Sorry...you've proven yourself incorrect AGAIN!
Let’s see the ‘every year improvement’: JD Power Hyundai owners total satisfaction (the highest points, the better) Year 2008 Survey (comment 79):[/FONT]
"Total Satisfaction" does NOT equal quality, as you are trying to state. "Total Satisfaction" takes into account dealer service and sales along with many other non-product related items.
I use the US Vehicle Dependabilty Survey because it meets YOUR demand for long-term measurement and it's among the MOST reliable surveys as it has a long track record. The VDS numbers for Hyundai have gone DOWN (lower is better) every year and at a rate faster than the rest of the market, which is apparent in its better ranking year after year.
Besides, your quoted numbers vary no more than 2%. That's within statistical error of being FLAT, not going down. Sorry...you've proven yourself incorrect AGAIN!
Skywalker1977
09-17-2008, 09:07 AM
I am soooo disappointed in you sir. This is no more then 5.0 troll http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html rant at best. Damn it sir, I will make you into a 10 point troll yet! First the point scale so you'll know what your weaknesses are -
Long windedness - 6 Are you running out of breath? This is pretty small.
Link riddledness - 1 One link?
Emoticons fullness- 1 :headshake :headshake :headshake :headshake and only one pic?
Irrationalness - 7 Still strong but I read better from you!
Hmmm....... Need something to get you going. Ahh....
In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th between all Manufactures from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. Hudson, 789 of 2008 is smaller than 795 of 2007, so we have Hyundai’s decrease of quality (=satisfaction) between the two years in absolute points… and the points that gets, are irrelevant to other car manufacturers. In this study Hyundai with the points that gets every year, is only competing itself (the performance that Hyundai had in the previous year). But they only surveyed 16,000 people Sir!
In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th, from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. 792 points < 795 points < 813 points. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006 (for 3 consecutive years). Hmmm… But they only surveyed 19,000 people Sir! In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st, from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down between 2008 and 2006.But they only surveyed 18,000 people SIR! Conclusion: Out of all the people surveyed how many had Hyundai's for it to even matter?
And now, some RELLY new things:
Let’s see best cars, according to consumers’ reports.
Small sedan Hyundai Elantra SE
Redesigned for 2007, the Elantra is a well-rounded small car. It provides good fuel economy, a comfortable ride, and an interior that’s quiet, roomy, and well equipped. It also has standard electronic stability control, a proven safety feature that’s absent on many other small cars. The Honda Civic EX and Mazda3 are more fun to drive, but lack ESC on more affordable versions. Price: $18,000.
Midsized SUV Hyundai Santa Fe
Redesigned for 2007, the much-improved Santa Fe edged out the Honda Pilot in our tests. It provides a quiet and roomy interior, excellent fit and finish, a refined powertrain, a relatively good ride, and an optional third-row seat. Standard ESC helps provide secure handling. Price: $22,000 to $31,000.
So again I WIN
http://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gif
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Long windedness - 6 Are you running out of breath? This is pretty small.
Link riddledness - 1 One link?
Emoticons fullness- 1 :headshake :headshake :headshake :headshake and only one pic?
Irrationalness - 7 Still strong but I read better from you!
Hmmm....... Need something to get you going. Ahh....
In Germany Hyundai took 789 points, ranked 19th between all Manufactures from 795 that had in 2007 and 786 in 2006. Hudson, 789 of 2008 is smaller than 795 of 2007, so we have Hyundai’s decrease of quality (=satisfaction) between the two years in absolute points… and the points that gets, are irrelevant to other car manufacturers. In this study Hyundai with the points that gets every year, is only competing itself (the performance that Hyundai had in the previous year). But they only surveyed 16,000 people Sir!
In England Hyundai took 792 points, ranked 17th, from 795 that had in 2007 and 813 in 2006. 792 points < 795 points < 813 points. Absolute Down from 2007 and 2006 (for 3 consecutive years). Hmmm… But they only surveyed 19,000 people Sir! In France Hyundai took 758 points, ranked 21st, from 769 that had in 2007 and 761 in 2006. Absolute Down between 2008 and 2006.But they only surveyed 18,000 people SIR! Conclusion: Out of all the people surveyed how many had Hyundai's for it to even matter?
And now, some RELLY new things:
Let’s see best cars, according to consumers’ reports.
Small sedan Hyundai Elantra SE
Redesigned for 2007, the Elantra is a well-rounded small car. It provides good fuel economy, a comfortable ride, and an interior that’s quiet, roomy, and well equipped. It also has standard electronic stability control, a proven safety feature that’s absent on many other small cars. The Honda Civic EX and Mazda3 are more fun to drive, but lack ESC on more affordable versions. Price: $18,000.
Midsized SUV Hyundai Santa Fe
Redesigned for 2007, the much-improved Santa Fe edged out the Honda Pilot in our tests. It provides a quiet and roomy interior, excellent fit and finish, a refined powertrain, a relatively good ride, and an optional third-row seat. Standard ESC helps provide secure handling. Price: $22,000 to $31,000.
So again I WIN
http://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gif
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
sofpan
09-17-2008, 09:54 AM
Fanny Skywalker1977,
you find the population of these JD Power studies small? So you question the methodology of JD Power. I don't care about that. Hudson and others "Hyundai Defenders" more serious than you, don't question JD Power.
As for the population of these studies, is enough big for the study to have reliable results. ...and the results of these studies are more important than your opinion, and other 3 or 4 "Hyundai Defenders".
Why fanny Skywalker didn't answer to my question: if you support and believe so much that Hyundai are good cars, why don't you get rid off your Ford and get a "precious" Hyundai?
Bye fanny! :biggrin2:
P/S: Can't you find some icons of yours? Why you copied the little chicken that I dedicated to you? Obviously, or you like it because it characterise you or you like to copy like Hyundai that you admire copies quite often from others auto makers.
you find the population of these JD Power studies small? So you question the methodology of JD Power. I don't care about that. Hudson and others "Hyundai Defenders" more serious than you, don't question JD Power.
As for the population of these studies, is enough big for the study to have reliable results. ...and the results of these studies are more important than your opinion, and other 3 or 4 "Hyundai Defenders".
Why fanny Skywalker didn't answer to my question: if you support and believe so much that Hyundai are good cars, why don't you get rid off your Ford and get a "precious" Hyundai?
Bye fanny! :biggrin2:
P/S: Can't you find some icons of yours? Why you copied the little chicken that I dedicated to you? Obviously, or you like it because it characterise you or you like to copy like Hyundai that you admire copies quite often from others auto makers.
sofpan
09-17-2008, 10:03 AM
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/7588125111.jpg
Hyundai in 17th position between 28!
Great position!
Gimme more... gimme more...
Its brother KIA in 25th position! Wow!!!
Hyundai in 17th position between 28!
Great position!
Gimme more... gimme more...
Its brother KIA in 25th position! Wow!!!
Skywalker1977
09-17-2008, 12:51 PM
Fanny Skywalker1977,
you find the population of these JD Power studies small? So you question the methodology of JD Power. I don't care about that. Hudson and others "Hyundai Defenders" more serious than you, don't question JD Power.
As for the population of these studies, is enough big for the study to have reliable results. ...and the results of these studies are more important than your opinion, and other 3 or 4 "Hyundai Defenders".
resident Hyundai Hater.
OH! JD Powers now SIR! Did you succumb to the Edmunds quote? No negitive Edmunds retort? HOW DARE YOU BACK TRACT TO JD POWER. YOUR MENTAL MIDGETRY MISTIFIES ME. Troll like yes, but I've already seen such said things. http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-category/sub-compact-car
Hyundai Accent JD Power's award recipient.
(Sigh)........I'm failing you. No No, it's not your fault it's mine. I thought you would reply with more trollyness then this. Your regressing. But I still have faith in you. Let's see where you are at this point -
Long windedness - 3 I'm expecting a "2nd wind" soon. I know it's in you!
Link riddledness - 0 No excuse for this
Emoticons fullness- 1 Again, no excuse.
Irrationalness - 5 A legitiment question? That's not troll like. That's more human!
Overall troll score 2.5
My score was more liberal in your other rant but I don't think I should do that
at this point. Your fading too quickly. .....got to keep you going.
Hmmmmm.....................
"Why fanny Skywalker didn't answer to my question: if you support and believe so much that Hyundai are good cars, why don't you get rid off your Ford and get a "precious" Hyundai?" - resident Hyundai Hater.
I have you know sir that I owned an Elantra between 2002 and 2005 and with over 60,000 miles on it and it was very good! I traded for the Taurus because of a growing family and it was cheap. Couldn't wait for the 06 Sonata but the new Genesis is VERY APPEALING! SO THERE SIR!
P/S: Can't you find some icons of yours? Why you copied the little chicken that I dedicated to you? Obviously, or you like it because it characterise you or you like to copy like Hyundai that you admire copies quite often from others auto makers.-resident Hyundai Hater
Pssssss......Why should I when your doing the work for me!
So again I WIN
http://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gif
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
you find the population of these JD Power studies small? So you question the methodology of JD Power. I don't care about that. Hudson and others "Hyundai Defenders" more serious than you, don't question JD Power.
As for the population of these studies, is enough big for the study to have reliable results. ...and the results of these studies are more important than your opinion, and other 3 or 4 "Hyundai Defenders".
resident Hyundai Hater.
OH! JD Powers now SIR! Did you succumb to the Edmunds quote? No negitive Edmunds retort? HOW DARE YOU BACK TRACT TO JD POWER. YOUR MENTAL MIDGETRY MISTIFIES ME. Troll like yes, but I've already seen such said things. http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-category/sub-compact-car
Hyundai Accent JD Power's award recipient.
(Sigh)........I'm failing you. No No, it's not your fault it's mine. I thought you would reply with more trollyness then this. Your regressing. But I still have faith in you. Let's see where you are at this point -
Long windedness - 3 I'm expecting a "2nd wind" soon. I know it's in you!
Link riddledness - 0 No excuse for this
Emoticons fullness- 1 Again, no excuse.
Irrationalness - 5 A legitiment question? That's not troll like. That's more human!
Overall troll score 2.5
My score was more liberal in your other rant but I don't think I should do that
at this point. Your fading too quickly. .....got to keep you going.
Hmmmmm.....................
"Why fanny Skywalker didn't answer to my question: if you support and believe so much that Hyundai are good cars, why don't you get rid off your Ford and get a "precious" Hyundai?" - resident Hyundai Hater.
I have you know sir that I owned an Elantra between 2002 and 2005 and with over 60,000 miles on it and it was very good! I traded for the Taurus because of a growing family and it was cheap. Couldn't wait for the 06 Sonata but the new Genesis is VERY APPEALING! SO THERE SIR!
P/S: Can't you find some icons of yours? Why you copied the little chicken that I dedicated to you? Obviously, or you like it because it characterise you or you like to copy like Hyundai that you admire copies quite often from others auto makers.-resident Hyundai Hater
Pssssss......Why should I when your doing the work for me!
So again I WIN
http://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gif
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule !:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
Hyundai's rule!:runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
hermes_1
09-17-2008, 01:23 PM
http://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gif
To fanny ‘Skywalker1977’ (the picture above dedicated from me to you, I believe showing
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/japan-on-top-in-consumer-reports%e2%80%99-list-of-best-cars/ (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/japan-on-top-in-consumer-reports%e2%80%99-list-of-best-cars/)
See? Japs cars rule. Consumers reports say that. Hyundai is absent. Why? Whoever has sense, can understand…
Mr Bart, Mr Dufus, Mr Yahoo! or whatever your name is. The reference to consumers Report you cite is from 2007 ". . . Influential magazine Consumer Reports has come out with its annual list of the ten best cars of 2007, and once again Japanese automakers have dominated the results. . . "
The current CR ratings: (note top rating for Elantra SE)
They also scrored in Budget cars (Automatic transmission) & Budget cars (Manual transmission)
Small cars (Automatic transmission)
Hyundai Elantra SE $17,980 27 Controls, ride, standard stability control on SE, braking, transmission, emergency handling, reliability.
Honda Civic EX (AT) $19,610
NA
28 Powertrain refinement, fuel economy, crash-test results, cabin storage, reliability. Road noise.
Mazda3 AT $17,940 NA
27 Handling, fuel economy, turning circle, reliability. Road noise, small trunk, IIHS side-crash test w/o side- or curtain air bags.
Honda Civic Hybrid $22,400
NA
37 Fuel economy, low emissions, fit and finish, cabin storage, crash-test results, reliability. Road noise, no fold-down rear seat.
Volkswagen Jetta 2.5 $23,580
NA
24 Interior room, fit and finish, crash-test results, turning circle, ESC standard on most trims. Coarse engine.
I truncated the list because it is too much to paste.
So, Mr Yahoo! you must admit times have changed! However, all of us have empathy for you and your sad experiences with a 1998 Hyundai. :-( BTW, was it assembled in Greece? manufactured in Greece? If so, that explains a lot! Tell me who runs the government in Greece these days? Any political coups lately?
To fanny ‘Skywalker1977’ (the picture above dedicated from me to you, I believe showing
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/japan-on-top-in-consumer-reports%e2%80%99-list-of-best-cars/ (http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/japan-on-top-in-consumer-reports%e2%80%99-list-of-best-cars/)
See? Japs cars rule. Consumers reports say that. Hyundai is absent. Why? Whoever has sense, can understand…
Mr Bart, Mr Dufus, Mr Yahoo! or whatever your name is. The reference to consumers Report you cite is from 2007 ". . . Influential magazine Consumer Reports has come out with its annual list of the ten best cars of 2007, and once again Japanese automakers have dominated the results. . . "
The current CR ratings: (note top rating for Elantra SE)
They also scrored in Budget cars (Automatic transmission) & Budget cars (Manual transmission)
Small cars (Automatic transmission)
Hyundai Elantra SE $17,980 27 Controls, ride, standard stability control on SE, braking, transmission, emergency handling, reliability.
Honda Civic EX (AT) $19,610
NA
28 Powertrain refinement, fuel economy, crash-test results, cabin storage, reliability. Road noise.
Mazda3 AT $17,940 NA
27 Handling, fuel economy, turning circle, reliability. Road noise, small trunk, IIHS side-crash test w/o side- or curtain air bags.
Honda Civic Hybrid $22,400
NA
37 Fuel economy, low emissions, fit and finish, cabin storage, crash-test results, reliability. Road noise, no fold-down rear seat.
Volkswagen Jetta 2.5 $23,580
NA
24 Interior room, fit and finish, crash-test results, turning circle, ESC standard on most trims. Coarse engine.
I truncated the list because it is too much to paste.
So, Mr Yahoo! you must admit times have changed! However, all of us have empathy for you and your sad experiences with a 1998 Hyundai. :-( BTW, was it assembled in Greece? manufactured in Greece? If so, that explains a lot! Tell me who runs the government in Greece these days? Any political coups lately?
Greenblurr93
09-17-2008, 01:56 PM
....a award from jdpower doesn't proves anything.....
....So for me this kinds of awards are worthless....
Just throwing this out there.... you dont trust JDPower when they have something good to say.. but love to use them when you can twist their information to suit you?
....So for me this kinds of awards are worthless....
Just throwing this out there.... you dont trust JDPower when they have something good to say.. but love to use them when you can twist their information to suit you?
Skywalker1977
09-17-2008, 04:35 PM
Come on. You can do it! I know the troll in you is dying to get out! I keeping hope alive. Maybe if we all put our hands on our computer screens and chant for the troll in you to come out......
I do see bits of trollness in your writtings. What more can I do? I implore not to fade now. My faith has been shaken by your lastest "rant" but I must press on. Troll points -
Long windedness - 1 Did you just paste most of the "rant"?
Link riddledness - 0 Are you even trying?
Emoticons fullness - 0 What reason is there not to?
Irrationalness - 6 I gave you points for the falsity and double talk
Overall Troll Total 1.8
Sorry to say keep this up and you will lose your troll status.
"Mr Bart, Mr Dufus, Mr Yahoo! or whatever your name is. The reference to consumers Report you cite is from 2007 ". . . resident Hyundai Hater
SIR, HAVE YOU NO SHAME! TO DISINFORM YOUR READERS! But full of trollyness GOOD JOB HERE :thumbsup:
I quote CR, SIR!
April 2008
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/gray_dotline_vert.gif (javascript:void(window.open('0704_top-picks-2007.htm?controller=SendToAFriend','NewWindow','wi dth=640,height=470,directories=no,location=no,menu bar=no,scrollbars=yes,status=no,toolbar=no,resizab le=yes'));)Top Picks 2008
The best models for 2008
This year’s Top Picks in 10 categories include four new models. For the first time since 2005, a U.S. model, the redesigned Chevrolet Silverado, made the list as our choice in pickup trucks. And for the first time ever, a South Korean automaker is represented: The Hyundai Elantra SE and Santa Fe are our top small sedan and midsized SUV, respectively
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/news/2007/04/top-picks-for-2007-4-07/overview/0704_top-picks-2007.htm?EXTKEY=SP72C00&CMP=KNC-CROYPICARS&HBX_OU=51&HBX_PK=pi
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
....a award from jdpower doesn't proves anything.....
....So for me this kinds of awards are worthless....
"Just throwing this out there.... you dont trust JDPower when they have something good to say.. but love to use them when you can twist their information to suit you?"
THANK YOU MR. Greenblurr93 for showing us that his absurdness knows no bounds!
A 1998 Hyundai? YOU HAVE CONFUSED ME WITH ONE OF YOUR EMEMIES SIR. very troll like, there's still hope! :biggrin:
Mr Greenblurr93 and I both WIN!
http://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gif
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
(sorry to break the happy Hyundai dance tradition but the dancing chicken little is priceless)
I do see bits of trollness in your writtings. What more can I do? I implore not to fade now. My faith has been shaken by your lastest "rant" but I must press on. Troll points -
Long windedness - 1 Did you just paste most of the "rant"?
Link riddledness - 0 Are you even trying?
Emoticons fullness - 0 What reason is there not to?
Irrationalness - 6 I gave you points for the falsity and double talk
Overall Troll Total 1.8
Sorry to say keep this up and you will lose your troll status.
"Mr Bart, Mr Dufus, Mr Yahoo! or whatever your name is. The reference to consumers Report you cite is from 2007 ". . . resident Hyundai Hater
SIR, HAVE YOU NO SHAME! TO DISINFORM YOUR READERS! But full of trollyness GOOD JOB HERE :thumbsup:
I quote CR, SIR!
April 2008
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/resources/images/gray_dotline_vert.gif (javascript:void(window.open('0704_top-picks-2007.htm?controller=SendToAFriend','NewWindow','wi dth=640,height=470,directories=no,location=no,menu bar=no,scrollbars=yes,status=no,toolbar=no,resizab le=yes'));)Top Picks 2008
The best models for 2008
This year’s Top Picks in 10 categories include four new models. For the first time since 2005, a U.S. model, the redesigned Chevrolet Silverado, made the list as our choice in pickup trucks. And for the first time ever, a South Korean automaker is represented: The Hyundai Elantra SE and Santa Fe are our top small sedan and midsized SUV, respectively
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/news/2007/04/top-picks-for-2007-4-07/overview/0704_top-picks-2007.htm?EXTKEY=SP72C00&CMP=KNC-CROYPICARS&HBX_OU=51&HBX_PK=pi
Quote:
Originally Posted by sofpan
....a award from jdpower doesn't proves anything.....
....So for me this kinds of awards are worthless....
"Just throwing this out there.... you dont trust JDPower when they have something good to say.. but love to use them when you can twist their information to suit you?"
THANK YOU MR. Greenblurr93 for showing us that his absurdness knows no bounds!
A 1998 Hyundai? YOU HAVE CONFUSED ME WITH ONE OF YOUR EMEMIES SIR. very troll like, there's still hope! :biggrin:
Mr Greenblurr93 and I both WIN!
http://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gifhttp://img1.jurko.net/chicken-little2.gif
Hyundai's rule ! :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround: :runaround:
(sorry to break the happy Hyundai dance tradition but the dancing chicken little is priceless)
lowsonoma1999
09-17-2008, 08:51 PM
http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/7588125111.jpg
Hyundai in 17th position between 28!
Great position!
Gimme more... gimme more...
Its brother KIA in 25th position! Wow!!!
This is their CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index) score. This does not rate their quality or durability. This CSI score, is probably based off the purchasers general sales experience. Whether they think they got a good car for the money, were they treated properly by the salesmen, did the salesman go over the features of the car with them, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Our CSI score for sales at my dealership is consistently around 93-95%, there are good dealers, and there are bad. This is just the average, but still nothing to do with quality or durability.
Hyundai in 17th position between 28!
Great position!
Gimme more... gimme more...
Its brother KIA in 25th position! Wow!!!
This is their CSI (Customer Satisfaction Index) score. This does not rate their quality or durability. This CSI score, is probably based off the purchasers general sales experience. Whether they think they got a good car for the money, were they treated properly by the salesmen, did the salesman go over the features of the car with them, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. Our CSI score for sales at my dealership is consistently around 93-95%, there are good dealers, and there are bad. This is just the average, but still nothing to do with quality or durability.
sofpan
09-18-2008, 03:57 AM
I use the US Vehicle Dependabilty Survey because it meets YOUR demand for long-term measurement and it's among the MOST reliable surveys as it has a long track record. The VDS numbers for Hyundai have gone DOWN (lower is better) every year and at a rate faster than the rest of the market, which is apparent in its better ranking year after year.
VDS is a long term study? It is for 3 years cars. That is medium term, not long. The only study that is ‘long term’ is DEKRA’s for the large mileage. This study is for me the most reliable, trustworth… and what this study showing? The Hyundai models are below average in every category (see comment 79).
As for the ‘Total Satisfaction’ where Hyundai bottoms dear Hudson, is a wider meaning than just construction quality and cars’ durability. It contains the after sales service and others as you mentioned, so it is a very interesting indicator. And Hyundai almost Bottoms! …and not only almost Bottoms but also gets lower absolute points between consecutive years…. That proves that Hyundai is becoming Worse.
To Fanny: You didn’t like the JD Power study that surveyed 16.000 people. So, let’s examine the US JD Power’s VDS Study of 2008, that surveyed more than 58,000 owners as I read in its site. Well in 11 segments of Cars and 8 segments of Trucks and MAV, so totally 19 segments, JD Power announces the 3 top vehicles (in every segment). So we have 19 segments multiply 3 tops = 57 tops totally.
Hyundai/KIA Group is in the 5th position of annual global sales. Where we can find Hyundai Group in the top lists?
Only one appearance with Accent (I believe it is or luck or a nice try from Hyundai to confuse the consumers)… nothing more… So let’s do the stats… 1 to 57 is 1/57 that is 1.75% when the market share of Hyundai Group (globally annual sales) is around 7.0%. Well done Hyundai!!! Great performance!!!
Furthermore, for the 1st position of Accent in JD Power’s study, I put in your face Fanny, the prize of Worst Car (of all categories) that Accent took in 2004, given by Top Gear.
Of course if you, the “Hyundai Defenders” think that this performance of Hyundai Group is good, that’s yours problem.
Every other serious auto maker that is in the JD Power’s VDS 2008 Top List, is there with more than only one appearance.
…and in the overall performance of JD Power VDS Study of 2008, Hyundai as a manufacturer is only in the 13th position, with 200 problems in every 100 cars, just marginally above the average (206/100) and of course with ‘lucky strike’. If you are happy with this, that’s OK with me… For me First is the Best, Faq the Rest. It seems that your logic is of the kind that we must achieve the average… bad for you…
See the link if you like with JD Power rankings:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115)
And finally to Fanny: Once again by not owning a Hyundai, you just proved that You don’t put your money where your mouth is.
So…
*PICTURE REMOVED BY MODERATOR*
To Hermes 1: Did you see in the list that you gave of the Best Cars by consumers reports, any Hyundai? Don’t you wonder why?
My friend, read the stats: japs cars rule. Japs cars are the most reliable in the long term. Of course as I said, it’s your money.
The reason that I opened this Thread is only to warn my fellow consumers. I don’t have something to win. I lost when I bought my Accent… and by the way… my Accent is a genuine Korean. In this Thread I try to warn the other consumers not to make a mistake. I have pure motives. So don’t be sarcastic, because you will be like Fanny. And after all, I can also be sarcastic.
To Greenblurr93: I don’t trust no one that I can not check him/it. Do you know that an organization like JD Power doesn’t paid off to show us some good rankings? Can you prove this? No.
But I use the datas of JP Power and others organizations, just because I want to show to all “Hyundai Defenders” that Hyundais are not good, by their logic. So we don’t have any noetic non-conformity. Understand? Or is it difficult for you?
*INSULTING REMARK REMOVED BY MODERATOR*
VDS is a long term study? It is for 3 years cars. That is medium term, not long. The only study that is ‘long term’ is DEKRA’s for the large mileage. This study is for me the most reliable, trustworth… and what this study showing? The Hyundai models are below average in every category (see comment 79).
As for the ‘Total Satisfaction’ where Hyundai bottoms dear Hudson, is a wider meaning than just construction quality and cars’ durability. It contains the after sales service and others as you mentioned, so it is a very interesting indicator. And Hyundai almost Bottoms! …and not only almost Bottoms but also gets lower absolute points between consecutive years…. That proves that Hyundai is becoming Worse.
To Fanny: You didn’t like the JD Power study that surveyed 16.000 people. So, let’s examine the US JD Power’s VDS Study of 2008, that surveyed more than 58,000 owners as I read in its site. Well in 11 segments of Cars and 8 segments of Trucks and MAV, so totally 19 segments, JD Power announces the 3 top vehicles (in every segment). So we have 19 segments multiply 3 tops = 57 tops totally.
Hyundai/KIA Group is in the 5th position of annual global sales. Where we can find Hyundai Group in the top lists?
Only one appearance with Accent (I believe it is or luck or a nice try from Hyundai to confuse the consumers)… nothing more… So let’s do the stats… 1 to 57 is 1/57 that is 1.75% when the market share of Hyundai Group (globally annual sales) is around 7.0%. Well done Hyundai!!! Great performance!!!
Furthermore, for the 1st position of Accent in JD Power’s study, I put in your face Fanny, the prize of Worst Car (of all categories) that Accent took in 2004, given by Top Gear.
Of course if you, the “Hyundai Defenders” think that this performance of Hyundai Group is good, that’s yours problem.
Every other serious auto maker that is in the JD Power’s VDS 2008 Top List, is there with more than only one appearance.
…and in the overall performance of JD Power VDS Study of 2008, Hyundai as a manufacturer is only in the 13th position, with 200 problems in every 100 cars, just marginally above the average (206/100) and of course with ‘lucky strike’. If you are happy with this, that’s OK with me… For me First is the Best, Faq the Rest. It seems that your logic is of the kind that we must achieve the average… bad for you…
See the link if you like with JD Power rankings:
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115 (http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2008115)
And finally to Fanny: Once again by not owning a Hyundai, you just proved that You don’t put your money where your mouth is.
So…
*PICTURE REMOVED BY MODERATOR*
To Hermes 1: Did you see in the list that you gave of the Best Cars by consumers reports, any Hyundai? Don’t you wonder why?
My friend, read the stats: japs cars rule. Japs cars are the most reliable in the long term. Of course as I said, it’s your money.
The reason that I opened this Thread is only to warn my fellow consumers. I don’t have something to win. I lost when I bought my Accent… and by the way… my Accent is a genuine Korean. In this Thread I try to warn the other consumers not to make a mistake. I have pure motives. So don’t be sarcastic, because you will be like Fanny. And after all, I can also be sarcastic.
To Greenblurr93: I don’t trust no one that I can not check him/it. Do you know that an organization like JD Power doesn’t paid off to show us some good rankings? Can you prove this? No.
But I use the datas of JP Power and others organizations, just because I want to show to all “Hyundai Defenders” that Hyundais are not good, by their logic. So we don’t have any noetic non-conformity. Understand? Or is it difficult for you?
*INSULTING REMARK REMOVED BY MODERATOR*
Greenblurr93
09-18-2008, 05:48 AM
Insulting a member (let alone a moderator) is the quickest way to earn a vacation from this site, I've let you stay because no matter how twisted your opinion is, it is still welcome here.... consider this your one and only warning
And by the way... that man on the 'little motorcycle' is me... and that motorcycle was going about 40mph... Live life everyday as if it were your last, because its amazing how fast life can turn on you and be taken away in an instant.
And by the way... that man on the 'little motorcycle' is me... and that motorcycle was going about 40mph... Live life everyday as if it were your last, because its amazing how fast life can turn on you and be taken away in an instant.
sofpan
09-18-2008, 07:36 AM
I know the troll in you is dying….[quote]
[quote=hermes_1]So, Mr Yahoo! you must admit times have changed! However, all of us have empathy for you and your sad experiences with a 1998 Hyundai. :-( BTW, was it assembled in Greece? manufactured in Greece? If so, that explains a lot!
To all others and moreover, to Moderator: aren’t those comments above, insulting to me?
As you can see, they first insulted me and I just answered them as they deserve.
If someone is civilized, I answer him with civilize way.
And consider how polite I was to Hermes_1.
By the way, is the Poll in the beginning of the Thread OK? I see a message always that says that Poll is closed. Why?
[quote=hermes_1]So, Mr Yahoo! you must admit times have changed! However, all of us have empathy for you and your sad experiences with a 1998 Hyundai. :-( BTW, was it assembled in Greece? manufactured in Greece? If so, that explains a lot!
To all others and moreover, to Moderator: aren’t those comments above, insulting to me?
As you can see, they first insulted me and I just answered them as they deserve.
If someone is civilized, I answer him with civilize way.
And consider how polite I was to Hermes_1.
By the way, is the Poll in the beginning of the Thread OK? I see a message always that says that Poll is closed. Why?
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