Consume less and save the planet.

This has been on my mind for a long time; most people in western nations, (Americans and Canadians in particular) consume resources at an unsustainable rate, and it is depleting out planet.

Yes, it's a stale and depressing argument, but it is one that must be heard.

This is a fascinating article (http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/2962) that states the level of consumption is quite new and quite unnecessary. As recently as 40-60 years ago, the people were on average, working far fewer hours and had more free time to spend with friends and family; for many making for a higher quality of life.
Back then, we had less money but we 'wasted' less money on stuff we really did not need. These days we are in a strange position where the people are working more hours than ever, just to buy stuff which we did not need in the past. This is the basis of the consumerist society.

The kicker is this consumerism was manufactured by marketers to create dissatisfaction and sell more stuff.

The upside to consumerism is more jobs. The downside, as we see now is super-high prices for commodities, fuel, oil, food, minerals; all the ingredients for our consumerist society. These high prices are obviously a direct result of over- consumption of finite resources.

IMO for the sake of our children's future (or your own) is to reverse this trend and consume less (and thus less need to work very long hours and more free time to improve quality of life). It's already starting as big SUV's are as popular as plutonium these days.

Your thoughts?

You think it's bad in the Western Hemisphere now, just wait until the emerging nations like China and India become more "modernized" and "westernized". We are already starting to see it with gas prices and shortages that are causing price spikes in such commodities as food and metals. As these nations start to consume more, and get a "taste" of a different lifestyle, it can only get worse. I think that may be more of an issue than our rate of consumption of resources.

:rolleyes: Great attitude - it's OK for us to do it but not for them.

:rolleyes: Great attitude - it's OK for us to do it but not for them.
If you were referring to my post I believe you misunderstood my intentions:rolleyes:. I was not saying it was all right for us to do it ands not for them . What could be construed from my post however is a chance for history to NOT repeat itself in that the same thing will happen 10 - 15 years down the road. Now is the chance for the whole world to act, including us to prevent future overconsumption, and "reign in " our own at the same time. Hopefully the emerging countries can learn a lesson from us. Right now, it is evident, China has not as the fact of the increase in environmental pollution due to their rapid expansion and industrialization which is really starting to have negative effects on their environment.

India and China clearly have no intention of reigning in their consumption or rationalizing their power needs, or becoming the least bit environmentally friendly. It's up to the world leaders to lead the world in these areas.

India and China clearly have no intention of reigning in their consumption or rationalizing their power needs, or becoming the least bit environmentally friendly. It's up to the world leaders to lead the world in these areas.
Exactly what I was inferring in my posts.:thumbsup:

Apologies, I think I misconstrued your first post - having a bad day.

It's scary the way we're heading and I'm afraid politicians are going to do little more than pay lip service to it as they collectively have no F'ing clue how to tackle the problem.

It's scary the way we're heading and I'm afraid politicians are going to do little more than pay lip service to it as they collectively have no F'ing clue how to tackle the problem.
Well, governments know how to fix the problem; it's just most of them are unwilling to cause economic slowdowns, economic depressions, unemployment etc by reducing consumption.

Some nations are introducing (or considering) 'carbon taxes' on fossil fuels, which will have an indirect effect on consumption, which is a step in the right direction.

However, IMO the problem starts and ends with the individual consumer. We do not have to wait for the government, we can all buy less, consume less and make more thoughtful purchase decisions.

The Carbon Trading scheme being proposed in Australia is a complete crock of shit!

The Government is going to add an excise to Petrol, and reduce the tax they currently put on petrol by the same amount. The net result is consumers get petrol for the same price they would've paid anyway and money goes from Government coffers to some nominally 'green' program. Stupid political posturing that is going to be of minimal benefit to the environment if you ask me.

Well, the Pope (of all people) has just given a speech on this very subject. As the Pope does not seem to have an AF membership,( for some reason) I will provide this report on his remarks:

By Rohan Sullivan, The Associated Press

SYDNEY, Australia - The world's natural resources are being squandered in the pursuit of "insatiable consumption," Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday in a speech urging followers to care more for the environment and reconnect with the principle of peace.

Benedict, speaking to more than 200,000 pilgrims gathered for the Roman Catholic church's youth festival, expanded on a theme that has led him to be dubbed "the green pope." The crowd, massed on a disused wharf in Australia's largest city, regularly erupted in cheers that gave the event the feel of a sporting event.

"Some of you come from island nations whose very existence is threatened by rising water levels; others from nations suffering the effects of devastating drought," the pope said, referring to global warming.

He noted that during his more than 20-hour flight from Rome to Sydney he had a bird's eye view of a vast swath of the world that inspired awe and introspection.

"Perhaps reluctantly we come to acknowledge that there are also scars which mark the surface of our earth: erosion, deforestation, the squandering of the world's mineral and ocean resources in order to fuel an insatiable consumption," he said.

Types of "poison" are afflicting the world's social environment, he said, such as substance abuse, along with the exaltation of violence and sexual degradation, for which he blamed television and the Internet.

"The concerns for nonviolence, sustainable development, justice and peace, and care for our environment are of vital importance for humanity," Benedict told the crowd.

Benedict's speech Thursday was his first major appearance at the festival and one of the set piece events of his 10-day trip. The pontiff emerged from three days at a secluded vacation spot to engage in a busy round of events for World Youth Day, an inaccurately-named six-day festival held every few years that is designed to inspire a new generation of Roman Catholics.

He received a series of welcomes: an official one from Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, a traditional one from pelt-clad Aboriginal dancers, and finally a rapturous one from pilgrims who journeyed to Sydney from more than 160 countries to attend.

The pope toured Sydney's famous harbor by boat, cruising past the city's twin landmarks - the white-shelled opera house and the bridge nicknamed "the coathanger" because of its shape.

At the ceremony with Rudd, Benedict praised the Australian government for its "courageous" apology to the country's indigenous Aborigines for past injustices, saying it offered hope to all disadvantaged peoples who are seeking reconciliation.

Aborigines are an often-marginalized minority of about 450,000 in Australia's population of 21 million. They are the country's poorest group, with the highest rates of unemployment, illiteracy, incarceration and alcohol abuse, and a life expectancy 17 years shorter than other Australians.

In February, Rudd formally apologized to Aborigines as one of his first official acts after taking power, and made closing the gap between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians a priority of his government.

Benedict's comments about Aborigines were not the first time a pope has recognized indigenous peoples.

In 2001, John Paul II issued a formal apology to the indigenous peoples of Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific islands for injustices perpetrated by Catholic missionaries.

Crowds of people thronged Sydney streets Thursday evening, shutting down a large part of downtown during rush hour, as Benedict drove in the popemobile through the city. Security was tight, with thousands of police deployed and dark-suited security guards walking alongside the pope's vehicle.

if everybody could switch to an altenative fuel i.e hydrogen what do you think the impact be

Only fools think that politicians are going to change anything. Things only change when enough people want them to change. Sure, for years or decades a government can clamp down on things, but it won't last.

Aside from that, I disagree 100% with the premise that things are being consumed at an unsustainable rate. Sure there are some things that are finite and will eventually be exhausted, but as history has shown, when there is a need and a will, new technology will replace the old.

Now excuse me, I'm going to go waste gas by cruising around for no other reason then I want to :smokin:

Hmm. I always thought of myself as quite minimalist and also quite eco-friendly without being a granola eating hippy treehugger :) My friends have pointed this out to me as well.

It's mostly simple stuff, really.

I only really own maybe 10 pairs of pants and perhaps 15 t-shirts, that generally don't get replaced until its really NEEDED. Of course i have a nice suit for the occasion that I need it.

I have your standard compact hatchback car. It gets decent mileage, ~30, and yet, i can fit a whole heckova lot of stuff in it when needed. If I need anything bigger, well that's when i'll track down a truck to use for only the time I need it. I wish my car was diesel powered though.

I try not to throw things away that don't need to be, or even find a way to do soemthing without having to throw crap away. The amount of packaging a LOT of stuff comes in really gets under my skin a lot. I recycle plastic shopping bags. I recycle everything that I can, really. It literally takes me aobut 3 weeks to fill up your standard 13 gallon trashbag. I try to save power whenever I can, which isn't hard. I don't see why some people have a hard time turning off lights, opening windows at night instead of running the a/c, etc. In fact, I got really ticked off when I couldn't find a switch for the lights outside of my garage (rented home) So i just unscrewed the bulbs. I also try to conserve water when I can, which is especially important in this state.

I really don't own much stuff. My room consists of a bed, a nightstand, and a desk with the computer. The only material things I really hold near and dear to me are my motorcycle and my firearms.

Lastly, I don't eat unless I'm hungry. And it's usually after I've been hungry for a while. Twice a day is the average. I could never really understand how some people would just eat and eat and eat, even after they're full, and just eat some more. Plus it keeps me skinny and aerodynamic :)

I think the world would be a much better place if everyone was like me :D
No but in all seriousness, I think a lot of people could stand to be a lot less wasteful. But it seems like greed and gluttony has got a good grip on this country.

Well, the Pope (of all people) has just given a speech on this very subject.

Doesn't the Pope represent the Church that's opposed to all forms of birth control except abstinence? It seems a bit hypocritical that someone can encourage the world to stop consuming natural resources, but not encourage minimizing the massive amount of unnecessary breeding that leads to....


...consumption of natural resources.

Aside from that, I disagree 100% with the premise that things are being consumed at an unsustainable rate. Sure there are some things that are finite and will eventually be exhausted, but as history has shown, when there is a need and a will, new technology will replace the old.

History has also shown entire towns, cities, and even a civilization or two go bust and disappear when they ran out of a resource they relied on. :2cents:

I believe this crap as much as I believed the rain forests were being destroyed at...what was it back in the day? Wait, found it. 200,000 acres burned everyday! Well how long have those commercials been going for? Sicne I was young, let's say 9 even. Well it's been 12 years and with over a billion acres that means it'll be gone in less than two years roughly.

Oops, wait, it's not...

STFU. This stuff is so stupid. Comes from the same genius that said the atom is the smallest thing ever and "By the way. Pluto is no longer a planet in our books."

Aniwho, I need to drive around in my V8 4x4 Jeep. Besides, the geniuses that want the earth saved so bad do some of the worse damge. See Al Gore. Freakin' idiot gets an award for polluting the earth with one evernt more than 5 humans do each in their lifetime. :rolleyes:

Once again, same sources, but they make him look bad. :D

WTF are you talking about damien?

That all this ecosystem crap and resources running low is a bunch of BS. It's either unsure guesses, exaggerated facts, or blatant lies.

The Green Movement is full of BS too and the show,Penn & Teller BS on Showtime proved it.Al Gore was even called an A-hole on the show,the starting.There is no such as global warming.Recycling is a huge waste of money too and this was on Penn & Teller BS,Season 2 if you want to know.It is cheaper to make a new plastic bottle than recycling it.Only thing that is worth recycling is Metal and the federal government regulates landfills.

Everything I've ever seen on TV was real, too.

It is cheaper to make a new plastic bottle than recycling it.Only thing that is worth recycling is Metal and the federal government regulates landfills.

Plastic bottles are not recyled to make more bottles, only virgin plastic can be used for human consumption containors. The recycled plastic is used for consumer products like Jeep parts.

Recycling plastic is cost effetcive and profitable. The military did a cost benifit analysis for recycling plastic on bases and came up with this analysis:

http://205.153.241.230/P2_Opportunity_Handbook/7_I_A_7.html

The site even has "an Active Spreadsheet for this Economic Analysis" so you can enter your own values here: http://205.153.241.230/econs/7ia7.xls

Go find some that has Penn & Teller BS season 2 on DVD and watch the recycling episode,they had an expert on their side that said it is cheaper to make a new plastic bottle than recycling.Recycling is a huge waste of money except metal,does not save trees,does not make anyone feel better and a few more reasons.

Go find some that has Penn & Teller BS season 2 on DVD and watch the recycling episode,they had an expert on their side that said it is cheaper to make a new plastic bottle than recycling.Recycling is a huge waste of money except metal,does not save trees,does not make anyone feel better and a few more reasons.

A couple of Bozo's on a DVD rerun of a cable TV channel humor show is all you have to go on? All I can do is post it, you'll have to find some one to read it too you and then expalin it to you. I get so tired of second graders with an attitude.

You do not know who Penn and Teller are,famous magicians and are no bozos.Most of it is true about recycling.Most trees cut down are replaced with new trees.I did find the experiment very funny what Pen and Teller did on the recycling episodes,9 bins whic some people had to get it in the right one,to soiled toillet paper to dirty diapers.

It's not just the fact that trees are getting cut down and we're not recycling our fucking water bottles. Things like this have been going on for years now. Way before any of us existed and it will continue until we no longer do. Talk is cheap. I believe global warming does exist but I also think it's a ploy to make people spend money. Just as with anything thats government related. It's all about the money. Are we destroying our planet? Yes. Abso-fucking-lutely. Do we care? Not really, because it's benefitting us RIGHT NOW. Everyone is all about immediate satisfaction and results. No one gives a shit about whats going to happen to this place hundreds of years from now, because that's what it's going to take for us to "run out of resources" if that happens.

We care nothing about what happens other than when the gas prices rise and fall. Global warming isn't real? Bullshit. Ice burgs aren't melting and causing flooding for no reason. Hurricanes aren't happening JUST BECAUSE the weather changes. Things are happening for a reason and the reason is US. Cause and effect. Years ago, according to books and a range of scientists, the world was a lush, green place. WE are destroying it. The pollution we create from not recycling or in other words, not giving a fuck, is what's causing all of this. Not anything else. All I can say is shit rolls downhill and the human race is right in the valley.

"We will be remembered more for what we destroy, than what we create."

You do not know who Penn and Teller are,famous magicians and are no bozos.

Actually I do know who Penn and Teller are, and have been a long time fan of their act, but how do you relate their skills as prestidigitator's to recycling? And why am I arguing with someone who can't construct a grammatically correct sentence? Doh!

We care nothing about what happens other than when the gas prices rise and fall. Global warming isn't real? Bullshit. Ice burgs aren't melting and causing flooding for no reason. Hurricanes aren't happening JUST BECAUSE the weather changes. Things are happening for a reason and the reason is US. Cause and effect. Years ago, according to books and a range of scientists, the world was a lush, green place. WE are destroying it. The pollution we create from not recycling or in other words, not giving a fuck, is what's causing all of this. Not anything else. All I can say is shit rolls downhill and the human race is right in the valley.

"We will be remembered more for what we destroy, than what we create."

Actually the hurricane seasons cannot be associated with GW for several reasons and the main is when the icebergs melt the waters get colder not warmer so if you want to say that's how come there are so many, you're wrong. If you want to use it as a source for why there haven't been many in past years, then why in 2004 was there a lot and now? Yes, either way, you lose.

Next topic, scientists. Gotta love them. The geniuses that they are having lived a hundred thousand...no, they didn't Shoot, they also aren't in space to actually describe what the heck dark matter is besides...space. Are we destroying it? Yes, but to the degree in which everyone is claiming. No. Just let it be. You want to do something then go out and do it. Recyle, save the whales, I don't care but don't try and convince people of something that won't affect them, their children, grandchildren, etc for the next several hundred years.

Actually the hurricane seasons cannot be associated with GW for several reasons and the main is when the icebergs melt the waters get colder not warmer so if you want to say that's how come there are so many, you're wrong. If you want to use it as a source for why there haven't been many in past years, then why in 2004 was there a lot and now? Yes, either way, you lose.

Next topic, scientists. Gotta love them. The geniuses that they are having lived a hundred thousand...no, they didn't Shoot, they also aren't in space to actually describe what the heck dark matter is besides...space. Are we destroying it? Yes, but to the degree in which everyone is claiming. No. Just let it be. You want to do something then go out and do it. Recyle, save the whales, I don't care but don't try and convince people of something that won't affect them, their children, grandchildren, etc for the next several hundred years.

I said everything happens for a reason... CAUSE and EFFECT. I also did mention that it would take an extreme amount of time before we "ran out of resources" which is what everyone is bitching about. Nothing will happen in my lifetime, your lifetime or your children, your childrens children... so on and so forth. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything... things are going downhill as far as the "well being of the earth" is concerned. I'm not the "save the whales" type either and I don't preach. I was stating my opinion. It's our fault the world is the way it is. No one else's. As I said before, no one cares about whats going to happen later on down the road because it won't effect them. People care about whats happening right now, this very moment. No one cares about the "what if"'s of life. Do I think it'll eventually turn to shit? Yes. Do I think there is anything one person can do about it? No. Do I think that what happens now will effect what happens later? Yes. Am I just "letting it be"? Yes... because theres nothing anyone can do about it. We will rise and we will fall. That is all I have to say.

http://www.storyofstuff.com/

Everyone in here needs to watch The Story of Stuff. I can't explain everything that she says in it, but the basic gist of the movie is that the system we're currently using is a linear system and you can't use a linear system on a finite planet.

(FYI: The System Is - Extraction, Production, Distribution, Consumption, Disposal)

Nothing will happen in my lifetime, your lifetime or your children, your childrens children... so on and so forth.

In the past 3 decades, 1/3 of the world's natural resources has been consumed. So you should rethink that statement.

[url]
(FYI: The System Is - Extraction, Production, Distribution, Consumption, Disposal)

That system is the old paradigim: cradle to death. Check out the new paradigim at cradle to cradle:

In Cradle to Cradle, McDonough and Braungart argue that the conflict between industry and the environment is not an indictment of commerce but an outgrowth of purely opportunistic design.

http://www.mcdonough.com/cradle_to_cradle.htm

In the past 3 decades, 1/3 of the world's natural resources has been consumed. So you should rethink that statement.

The idea of finite is still not absolute. It's all just guessing not to mention your statement holds as little value as God creating the universe. No proof and geniuses of equal intelligence and stature actually debate this. Considering we have enough oil for hundred and hundreds and hundreds of years (according to the same I.Q.s and this is what we know of) that means...well wait. That doesn't add up. If estimated consumption is applied to remaining resources and it even means we only have 100 years, well that would work. 30...33. But, they said well over a hundred years and this is just oil, not all of the resources as you stated. So...we have less than 66 years or resources as the consumption would increase over time so probably less than 50 years. Hm...this is news, you should call an emergency meeting.

By the way, we can try this all we want but for all we know this is how everything happens and everything just starts ALL over again in several billions years or less. No clue. Just the circle of life.

Anyone see The Happening.Freaky and awesome movie. Idk, just wanted to throw that out. Think nature would do such a thing, aside from the fact it couldn't because the wind isn't controlled by the plants, but still, aside from Hollywood mistakes.

The idea of finite is still not absolute.

eh?
so are you suggesting that there is an infinite amount of fossil fuel/resources available?

eh?
so are you suggesting that there is an infinite amount of fossil fuel/resources available?


Of course. Because that makes perfect sense, considering that the world is infinite, and most definitely not a contained system and finite space.:icon16:

It's all just guessing not to mention your statement holds as little value as God creating the universe. No proof and geniuses of equal intelligence and stature actually debate this.

When does a statement become credible? When it's spoken by Al Gore or Michael Moore? That statement came from the movie link I posted, which has an annotated script filled with all the references that you could probably find in your local library.

And oil isn't the only resource in the world...shall I call you George?

The idea of finite is still not absolute. It's all just guessing

No the "idea" of finite is definite. It's not open to a lot of interpretation.

But, they said well over a hundred years and this is just oil, not all of the resources as you stated.

But over a hundred years ago, the world used very little oil. If they'd used up all the oil in the planet 100 years ago, it wouldn't have been much of a problem. If it happened today it'd be a pretty big problem. You may have noticed that most of us use cars today, and there aren't many of us using coal furnaces anymore.

By the way, we can try this all we want but for all we know this is how everything happens and everything just starts ALL over again in several billions years or less. No clue. Just the circle of life.

Just because it starts over again (in your head anyway) gives you justification for wanton waste of materials you did not create? :confused:
By that logic, why not go steal some cars and commit a few murders - after all it won't matter one wit in a billion years.