Plugs and Wires

I searched for this, but the thread I found was too old to post in (just over 3 months).

I keep hearing a lot of people saying to stray from Bosch plugs/wires...I can live with that although I've never had a problem.

I'm going to do my plugs and wires pretty quick but I'm wondering if it's even justified to buy something "better" than OEM? I had my eye on PRJ spark plug wires (10.4mm) and they have features I don't think I'd use. They're good for taking on and off a lot, but I don't do a lot of work that requires removing the wires, so that feature is useless. Other than the claimed ~4whp on a 300whp setup, there will be very little power gain if any off these wires as far as I'm concerned. So is there any real point to getting these wires for a non racing setup? The extra cost just isn't looking like it's worth it...unless the Delco's are more expensive than I'm imagining. I see the Delco's are supposedly 7mm, and the PRJ's are 10.4mm....is that going to produce anything better spark-wise or is that just a thicker jacket?

On the plug note, I don't plan to move onto Autolites until I add a pulley, and Delco seems like a safe bet. Is there any runners up or better ones worth noting? I've seen the new E3 plugs, but have also read they *may not* live up to the hype.

So I'm just looking for suggestions here, otherwise I'm going OEM.

For the record, I may plan on upping the power by adding 3.4 pulley, headers, better intake, higher ratio rocker arms, lower t-stat, autolite 104's . Even under that setup, is there any need to get "better" wires?

Right now I'm running autolite 605's (1 range colder) and delco wires (45 bucks)

I have a 3.5" pully, 180 stat, and a stage 1 throttle body.

The plug wires I put on last year with a set of ac delco 41-101 plugs. this year I swapped out the plugs for the 605's. the wires came off a little hard but weren't ruined.

Not sure how much the wires your looking at are, but If they are a lot more than delco's, I wouldn't get them.

They're about $120US, didn't think they'd be worth the extra cost, considering for 60 bucks you can get a press on pulley and actually gain power rather than some fancy looking thick wires.

120? Forget it! for just a little more you can get a smaller pulley and reprogrammed PCM.

thicker wires transmit MORE energy... thinner wires do it faster.

Electricity does NOT flow THROUGH the wire... it flows AROUND IT. hence the reason braided wire is used in most automotive connections or DC setups regardless of use.

bigger wires will cause more impedance, but better holding power for the remainder of the spark duration.

If you spend alot of time driving at low speeds, bigger wires are better... if you spend alot of time at high speeds (engine speed) then you use smaller wires.

Always use the shortest possible wire to get to where you need it... slack is loss of current due to impedance.

Hope this helps.

thicker wires transmit MORE energy... thinner wires do it faster.

Electricity does NOT flow THROUGH the wire... it flows AROUND IT. hence the reason braided wire is used in most automotive connections or DC setups regardless of use.

bigger wires will cause more impedance, but better holding power for the remainder of the spark duration.

If you spend alot of time driving at low speeds, bigger wires are better... if you spend alot of time at high speeds (engine speed) then you use smaller wires.

Always use the shortest possible wire to get to where you need it... slack is loss of current due to impedance.

Hope this helps.

What? :rolleyes:

Well I think I'm going to go with Iridium plugs, either NGK or Delco, it seems many cars are equipped with NGK from the factory (including GM's?)...so I can't see it being a bad bet. I think I'm going to go with Delco wires unless there's a GOOD substitute for the same price, otherwise I'm probably wasting money.

I also need to find some Delco parts distributors, I have no idea if the stealership has huge markup on their parts or if I might as well get em there...

I wanna pick up a new fuel filter and for the time being I'm just gonna go OEM (trying to find a Delco one), not going to mess with stuff until the engine's modded, I just want a tune up for now.

Dealership markup will be higher on tune up parts.

www.rockauto.com has good prices

But I suppose you want them now..... Carquest, Napa, and Autovalue sometimes carry ac delco parts at lower than dealership prices.

I have the same plugs as tblake and I think they're great.

BTW, if you plan on doing any mods, right now might be the time to put a set of colder plugs in. A lot of us are running just regular copper core autolite plugs. I've got a set of autolite 605's which are one range colder. However if you would like to stick with platinum plugs, the TR6IX is a platinum plug that is one range colder.

I have the same plugs as tblake and I think they're great.

Hey Matt, What mods have you done to your car?

I'm just wondering because I put in my autolite 605's, 180 stat, and 3.5" pulley all at the same time, and my car doesn't start like it used to. I used to be able to Tap the key, and now sometimes it requires an extra half second of cranking before it starts. I was just wondering if this is due to the Autolites or the added boost. Something tells me its because the plugs aren't plats. Either way I can live with it, but it was just so nice when I could start my car like that.

BTW, my DHP PCM is on its way! (now I wish I'd have when with a modular pulley system so I could swap on a stock 3.8" and then switch to a 3.4". I just wanted to play it safe with the 3.5". Dont need any cracks in my pistons.

I actually put on the platintum 605's (AP605). I don't even remember what the plugs were before these because they were the plugs that were on when I got the car. I've never noticed any kind of a problem with starting.

Other than that, I've got a cat-back exhaust with high-flow mufflers and a cold air; that's it. U-bend delete is next. I'm very nervous about putting on the smaller pulley because I drive the car a little....athletically from time to time. The extra power would be great, but like you said I don't want to crack anything. If they had like a 3.6" pulley, I'd probably put that on. :tongue: Do you have a boost/vacuum guage for your car? How many pounds does a 3.5 pulley add?

Other than the stock boost guage (which sucks) I have nothing. Whats the stock pulley boost? 4psi? I think I read somewhere that a 3.4" boosts almost 10psi, so maybe 8-9psi with the 3.5". I'm not sure.

With your mods, you will totally be fine with a 3.5" pulley. Just put in a 180 stat at the same time and you'll be all set!

Wish I could afford cat back exhaust. I just spent a lot on some new lower controll arms and a stabilizer bar. Maybe after I order a high flow downpipe.

Oh yeah, I have a stabilizer bar too. I love that thing. I can take corners like no body's business.

I put in a guage pod with a boost guage and if I'm pinning it, it gets up to 5 pounds.

How did the 3.5 pulley affect your MPG?

funny thing is the 3.5" didnt affect it hardly at all! Seemed to get better milage when I fill with BP 92 octane (weird)

The stock pulley pushes 5 psi? or your guage maxes at 5psi?

Did you get the ZZP GMPP stabilizer bar? I ordered one a month ago, and they just emailed me back and said they aren't expecting shipment untill mid august. Grrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did the GMPP come with greasable poly midpoint busings?

Hmm. Well that 3.5 is sounding more and more interesting. :naughty:

The boost guage I got goes up to 30 PSI. Normally it (stock pulley) only goes up to four, but if I get up to freeway+ speeds and I'm pushing it, it goes up to five. I read that the stock pulley goes up to four, but I've seen it go up to five several times.

No, I didn't get a fancy stabilizer bar, it was just one I got off eBay. (eBay performance, baby! :lol2: ) It's just the kind that runs along the top back of your engine, so there wasn't any grease needed.

P.S. Anyone know where I can get a windsheild decal that says "eBay racing?" :loser:

Well I picked up some NGK Iridium IX's, "premium" Delco wires and a Delco fuel filter along with another ISS lube kit (gonna see if it does anything...) I got the parts from my regular mechanic at a "typical" parts store price (well, a little discount below that, but not much) and paid 181 for the wires, plugs and filter, which was a fair bit cheaper than what the dealer wanted... Hopefully I have enough ambition to get it ALL done tomorrow, not like any of those are really hard jobs.

Plugs/wires, filter installed. Piece of cake, didn't even have to tilt the engine to get to the rear bank (I have small arms).

I didn't bother with the ISS relube because when i was taking the shaft off I noticed the SAME sound I hear while driving when I moved the U-joint...I think the upper and possibly the lower U-joints are crap, if not the entire shaft as well...so I'm going to just buy a new one and replace the whole thing...does the new design bolt up exactly the same or are there any differences?

Does anyone know if anyone besides the dealership carries the shaft? Like maybe Rock Auto? I didn't see it listed anywhere under steering.

Not to hi jack a thread that is a month old but what is the benefit of running the copper core 605s as compared to the recommended plugs. Does it offer a performance benefit, and how often do you change them? Also with the AC delco wires, would the be ok with an MSD ignition. I figured since this was the newest thread about plugs and wires, I would post this instead of starting a new thread. Thanks

Well, if you have a question, you SHOULD post your own thread... instead of bringing up something that was already posted, and possibly resolved..

fact is, unless you have a need for them, the "upgraded" plugs are not really an upgrade... they might have some small benefits, but for the price differential, it's usually not worth it... unless you're getting into high comp or turbo/boosted motors, you don't need something that will handle those pressures... you only need OEM... even on boosted applications, I usually still use NGK's in my Honda, and most of my friend's cars when I tune them... they're pretty cheap, and very reliable.

This is not to say that those other plugs aren't worth getting, it's a personal choice, really, this is just to say that IMO, they're not worth it unless OEM plugs are sub-standard as compared to your engine setup... and since you're driving a Gran Prix... it's kinda obvious due to the limited aftermarket that you're not making uber-power... so you should probably just stick with OEM, and save the money for an exhaust, headers, or an intake.. maybe even some fuzzy dice.

Well, if you have a question, you SHOULD post your own thread... instead of bringing up something that was already posted, and possibly resolved..

fact is, unless you have a need for them, the "upgraded" plugs are not really an upgrade... they might have some small benefits, but for the price differential, it's usually not worth it... unless you're getting into high comp or turbo/boosted motors, you don't need something that will handle those pressures... you only need OEM... even on boosted applications, I usually still use NGK's in my Honda, and most of my friend's cars when I tune them... they're pretty cheap, and very reliable.

This is not to say that those other plugs aren't worth getting, it's a personal choice, really, this is just to say that IMO, they're not worth it unless OEM plugs are sub-standard as compared to your engine setup... and since you're driving a Gran Prix... it's kinda obvious due to the limited aftermarket that you're not making uber-power... so you should probably just stick with OEM, and save the money for an exhaust, headers, or an intake.. maybe even some fuzzy dice.


My car is modified with all you just said and more. Besides the fuzzy dice, but I do have a high output decal. Limited aftermarket???? There is plenty of aftermarket for these cars. Take yourself back to the Honda thread and deal with your small 4 cylinder engines. I can tell you know nothing of the Grand Prix and modifications of them. As of posting in this thread, He was asking the question along the same lines . I just wanted to elaborate on the question he asked.

Well, if you have a question, you SHOULD post your own thread... instead of bringing up something that was already posted, and possibly resolved..

fact is, unless you have a need for them, the "upgraded" plugs are not really an upgrade... they might have some small benefits, but for the price differential, it's usually not worth it... unless you're getting into high comp or turbo/boosted motors, you don't need something that will handle those pressures... you only need OEM... even on boosted applications, I usually still use NGK's in my Honda, and most of my friend's cars when I tune them... they're pretty cheap, and very reliable.

This is not to say that those other plugs aren't worth getting, it's a personal choice, really, this is just to say that IMO, they're not worth it unless OEM plugs are sub-standard as compared to your engine setup... and since you're driving a Gran Prix... it's kinda obvious due to the limited aftermarket that you're not making uber-power... so you should probably just stick with OEM, and save the money for an exhaust, headers, or an intake.. maybe even some fuzzy dice.

What???

The autolite 605's arent an upgrade, infact they are inferior to delco iridium 41-101's. The only reason we run them is to lower KR becuase they are colder plugs than the stock heat range. 605's are a copper core and require replacement probably every year.

Rick, not sure what mods you have, but if you dont have a supercharger with smaller pulley, I would probably just stick with stock.

My car is modified with all you just said and more. Besides the fuzzy dice, but I do have a high output decal. Limited aftermarket???? There is plenty of aftermarket for these cars. Take yourself back to the Honda thread and deal with your small 4 cylinder engines. I can tell you know nothing of the Grand Prix and modifications of them. As of posting in this thread, He was asking the question along the same lines . I just wanted to elaborate on the question he asked.

He obviously has never lined up aginst a GP. Maybe he's ignorant.

If your running higher boost rick, or ever plan on it, you can grab a set of 605's to stick in there, or even app605's which are one range colder double plats. They will last a great deal longer.

I orderde a smaller pulley and while it was in process and being shipped, I had 605's installed in my GTP. Probably ran them for two weeks without any ill effects.

104's are two ranges colder.

Thanks TBlake. BTW My mods are in my sig. That is all I basically wanted to know. I see that you guys use them, but I searched and could not find out why. Unfortunately, I do not have the supercharger, but I am going turbo in spring.

A turbo in the spring?

See what Bob says, he's an expert with mods.

For what you have, I'd leave the stock untill spring, and then swap to possibly 104s with the turbo upgrade.

Yeah I am going to stay with stock plugs. I have app606 in there now. It is either the turbo or supercharger. from what I have been reading it would be easier and somewhat cheaper to go turbo. Maybe I will just do more aggresive mods like heads and cam, I will have to look into it more.

So basically, you just told me that I was ignorant, was wrong about what I said, etc... and then you were told to use the damn stock plugs... b/c you don't have mods that necessitate using anything different... which is basically exactly what I said...

As for the "limited" aftermarket comment... from what I"ve seen, buying parts for friends and family for these cars, and different generations of these cars, There aren't a whole lot of companies offering competition to those who are offering the parts... therefore, it's a "limited" aftermarket...

Since those of you who actually know what goes on in aftermarket categories, are already aware of how this works, I'll keep it short.

Competition in aftermarket breeds newer, better parts... a lack of competition means that all the same companies are selling the same stale parts and combinations. Nothing improves until people start complaining about things lacking. Whereas, with competition, it gets people thinking about the "next best thing" for your car... What parts will work best, what combinations can we make, and how can we keep the prices low enough for the average enthusiast?

THAT is what limited aftermarket refers to... not that there aren't parts available, but that there aren't many places making them, and not alot of competition in the field.

By upgraded I did not mean upgraded I know that the plats, double plats and iridiums are obviously better than coppers. I just wanted to know the point and potential benefit of using them.

As for the limited aftermarket, yeah we do not have as many companies making cheaper/crap parts. There are so many ridiculously low quality crap in those 4/small 6 cylinder "performance" sections. The parts we do have are usually quality and usually just as cost effective as the OE options. And as for "uber power" it takes nitrous and rice for your honda to even make our stock horsepower.

Wow.. way to flame using outdated shit... maybe you didn't notice the date on that pic... that car was crushed about 6 months ago... besides, I'm not the one sitting here talking about whether or not spark plugs will make a difference in my ride.

I never said anything about Hondas being fast... but oddly enough, my car does get 45mpg IN THE CITY.

Weighing about 1800lbs, having 116WHP... so yeah, keep talking about how fast your Grand Prix is... I'll keep laughing while I pass the same pumps you're sitting at.

It might take me 10 seconds to get to 60mph... but I can run 500 miles on a 11.5 gallon tank... SOOO..

As far as taking nitrous to make your stock horsepower, there are 400+ HP all-motor Civics and CRX's running around on tracks and on streets... granted, they can't make much power w/o hours of tuning and thousands of dollars in mods, but the fact is, our 1800 lb cars only need 2/3 the power your car does to keep the same speed.

For clarification, that's assuming (since I don't know for sure) that you car weighs in at around 2700 lbs. I'm sure it's not quite that much, but obviously, if you can answer your own questions, you can see the purpose and point behind this.

Back to reality, I've spent no more than $700 on my car... and it's just fine.. not to mention that it costs me 1/2 of what it costs you to go the same way... I'm not the one concerned about performance out of a low-rate car... you are.

Yes, I said your car is low-rate... if you wanted a car that would really go fast, buy a damn sports car.. not a US-mass produced family car.

Other than that, you really need to learn that not everyone responds to flaming the way you might, by bitching and whining b/c you called their car slow... not everyone really cares what you think of them, me included...

If you knew anything about real automotive enthusiasts, you'd know this first:

WE ALL RESPECT EACH OTHER, REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE DRIVE, WHERE IT CAME FROM, OR WHAT'S BEEN DONE TO IT.

It's your choice what you drive... and if you drive it b/c someone else told you that it was the best choice for you, it most likely wasn't.

I chose to drive a Honda for reasons that are my own... as (I assume) is the same for you... the reasons you drive a GP are your own. Fact is, I could care less what you think about me and my Honda, and you should feel the same about what I think of your GP.

And one last thing... I bought my wife a '94 GP SE... it's a 4 door.. and it will smoke my car everywhere but the pumps... at 20-22mpg, I spend more money on her car than anything else.

BTW.. it's also always nice to assume that something is cheap and/or crap when you haven't ever used it... and if you have, that would mean that you, too, have driven an import... oh noes... too bad for you.

You can't honestly say that you have ANY experience what-so-ever with the companies that make our parts, since you don't own our cars... so keep that shit out of your head until you have concrete proof.

And with some of these companies, they're the same ones that make shit for your car... so go ahead and say the parts are shit, you'll just be talking shit about your own car as well.

:shakehead

Wow! Reminds me of a time the Ford Mustang forum members used to troll here.

Timeout guys. :nono: Lets regain our senses and knock off the flaming and personal attacks. If it continues this thread will be closed and I'll exercise my powers as a Moderator. This will be the only warning issued. So lets be cool.

If I move to a 3.5 pulley would I be better off with Autolite 605's or 104's?

[QUOTE=Dr0pZ0n3]So basically, you just told me that I was ignorant[QUOTE]

I'm sorry, I meant no offence to you. I just meant ignorant because you dont realize how many places and websites that actually sell high quality performance parts for grand prix's.

BTW, I like big long 4-door cars with decent power. I'm not much concerned about fuel milage, however I keep the rpm's as low as possible.

You on the other hand are more concerned about fuel milage. If I wanted the best MPG possbile, you damn well better believe I'd buy a Honda. They are good little cars....

I Rebult a friends honda last summer. 1994 prelude sir with the h22a1 DOHC Vtech. It was a manual and had 200,000 miles on it. Great shape. I was having problems getting the right parts because not all parts places stocked parts for the h22a1 (rare motor or something). Anyways, the owner blew the head gasket, filled a cylinder with coolant, and skipped camshaft timing. I was iffy to do the rebuild since it had so many miles, but he had the money to stick into it. Got it all backtogether (no bent valves luckily) and when I went to put the new good year gatorback belt on, the cogs fit the cam and crank gears, but didnt line up to the water pump gears. So someone had put the wrong damn waterpump in it too. I was pissed, and of course it had to be special ordered. But anyways, got it running really good, and the owner drove it for a year. This summer he wants to sell it with 230,000 miles on it. Even with that high of miles KBB still appraises it at 3 grand. Its unbelievable. Its quite a nice snappy little car. Wish I'd have the cash to buy it from him.

Anways.... sorry to offend you.

If I move to a 3.5 pulley would I be better off with Autolite 605's or 104's?

I have a 3.5" in my car and am running a set of 605's, no problems.

Sorry guys (Dropzon3)....everyone has a reason they like a particular car, who am I to judge.

None taken, none meant... live, learn, be happy, all that... anyway... I suppose I misunderstood the answer you were trying to get by your first post here, so I apologize for that.

And to add, I never liked Hondas until I ended up with no choice but to buy one.. it was the only thing I could afford that was for sale at the time... I never liked the "scene" that was involved... bunch of kids with mom's credit card buying eBay parts and claiming they could beat "real cars" in all aspects of racing...

It wasn't until I dug a lil further into the "scene", that I realised there are actually some quite intelligent, knowledgeable people in this part of the automotive world... who know alot about not only Honda performance (most times, an oximoron, like Microsoft Works lol), but the performance aspect of many other types of engine and vehicle.

I've learned alot more being with the REAL Honda group than I ever did when I was driving, modifying and tuning "US-built" machines.

My first car was a 1979 Dodge Aspen w/ a 360 Magnum, mild port and polish, truck cam, 727 Interceptor (I believe was the right name) (Torqueflite is the other name that comes to mind) with B&M stage two kit and ratchet shifter with R-lock.

45 second manual transbrake, trac bars, front and rear braces, lowered 2", with Cragar S/S mags, 265/50R15 out back, and 195/60R15 up front.

It was a mean lookin car, had a nice stance, but once the driveshaft front u-joint gave out, and I almost flipped it tail over headlights, I kinda gave up on it... it constantly needed tuned w/ a Edel 650 on top... never stayed quite perfect.

Anyway, that's my story... hope you liked it.

Apologies again for trouble caused, and for the misunderstanding.. hopefully, it won't happen again.

....an oximoron, like Microsoft Works lol

Good One! I'll have to remember it. BTW, I've got XP and its a really stable OS. If you interested in a "copy" let me know. i've read horrar stories about vista. Go Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti61aUG9cxU) and watch the video clip. Its worth at least a couple minutes of your day. (good laugh) :rofl:

Sorry for off topic Bob :rolleyes:

Anways, sounds like a pretty Kick@$$ car! Bet it would be worth some big bucks nowadays!

probably... but I'm sure it's romping the Honda in that pic up in car heaven somewhere... after the driveshaft incident, I sold to a kid who promised to finish restoring it... who later ran it as a demo car... I was pissed... but he paid about $2k for it to me, so I guess it wasn't that bad, considering I only had about $700 into it.

stupid punk a$$ kids! Show no respect.... (I'm only 21, so I guess its like the pot calling the kettle black)

I cant believe he would demo it. Must have annoyed the hell out of you.

Speaking of Hondas I periodically make jokes about them but I do own one. :uhoh:

"I don't drive a Honda but ride it". :lol: Still hard to beat their MX bikes. :wink:

It did... but hey... it's just a car.. right?

I can always get another one... as it sits, I"m looking at two more, so I can park my Civic.

Looking at a '94 Civic LX that's nearly perfect with two boxes of parts, and a '95 3000GT that just needs a 1" section of Exhaust pipe, and will pass inspection... I can get both for under $5k... dunno where I"ll park 4 cars tho.


This is REALLY OT right now... maybe another thread is in order?