94 Eclipse 1.8...idle issues = timing belt??

Hello all...hope someone can help.

Tried to find similar issues in previous posts but not doing a great job of picking good search strings, I guess.

Recently bought a '94 Eclipse - 5 spd standard. I already knew from prev. owner that she lost power if AC turned on...basic 1.8 liter woes, I supposed. However, got worse a couple of weeks after purchase:
(a) when cranked, there is a surge as if am accelerating, though my foot not on pedal.
(b) engine sputters at idle (best example and closest experience is when my 61 comet lost its muffler but not as loud)
(c) After shift to second, acceleration jerky, I guess, etc.
(d) at idle...such as at light... if A/C on, tries to stall and difficult to rev such that could get moving, and then barely moving (0 to 60 in as many minutes) and if on an incline, forget it...Have only used A/C when have reached cruising speed.

I did a bit of online searching and found info to suggest it was the Idle Air control.

I took it to a garage recommended by a friend as reliable and reasonable and they're saying the car has "jumped timing" and that I need
(a) new timing belts (plural)...car has 132,000+ miles on it. I'm pretty sure the prev. owner said the timing belt was new -- the records he gave me are in the glove compartment and, of course, the car's at the garage. Yippee, huh??
(b) also recommending a new water pump due to pump location relative to the timing belt work, and
(c) an oil pump.

The car cranks on the first turn of the ignition, and for some reason -- some past experience in the far distant past -- tells me it wouldn't crank so easily if the timing was off??? Obviously I don't know, but I'm concerned that I'm about to be taken to the cleaners simply because I don't know anything.

Any words of advice, such as "get a second opinion" or does their assessment sound right to you more knowledgeable folk??

Thanks for any help!!
Lee

well,
1. hesitant idle
2. backfiring
3. loss of power

a/c situation is VERY typical for 1.8 engines. i had LR-V along with 94 eclipse, poor thing will choke to stall with a/c on. had to rig idle with a stop screw next to the wheel that throttle cable is attached to. drove like this for yrs.
ok, here's my suggestion:
1. it does have 2 belts - timing and balancer
2. belts are to be replaced at 60K miles, period. that engine is on the blacklist - if timing belt rips, you damage valves with pistons. so called "interference engine".
3. we had belt replaced twice on our 94 eclipse, never had to touch pump. bull.
4. get timing light and have timing checked. if it's bad - you ain't got no choice but to replace the belts. brace yourself up for the job. tensioners wore me out to death!
5. if timing is good, here's my prediction: bad ECU. mitsu's ECUs are notorious on leaking chemicals and simply dying. sorry about the news, they are VERY expensive to replace. we forked $1200 for it back in 2000.
6. on the friendly advice note, as we had virtually same issues, do this: drive it to a reputable shop and let them scan for codes. you might be lucky and it might be 2 sensors: throttle position and camshaft position. both are not expensive and piece of cake to replace DIY. you''l lose 70 bucks for scan, but will save plenty on guessplacing parts. you can read codes yourself if you want to.
oh, and if you decide to DIY belts - LORD SAVE YOU FROM TURNING ENGINE COUNTERCLOCKWISE EVEN A SCOASH!!!!!! you'll rip main seals, they are unidirectional. we did. reassembled everything, she started like a champ - and with oil gushing from the front main seal. oh pissed i was!!:evillol: :evillol:

Thanks for all the good info and your previous experience with the 94 Eclipse.

I'm pretty sure the last owner replaced belt (or belts)...or had them replaced by mechanic, but have to check that stack of papers. When I was looking for cars, the importance of timing belts getting "timely" changes came up early on, so I was always looking for that.

Sad to hear about the ECU. I had read a teeny bit about the them -- or the IAC...(or is one mounted on the other???) and something leaking all over the place -- and the best to worst case scenario (little ticking noise all the way to cabin filled with thick, acrid white smoke...car simply shutting down). It never occurred to me that this little bugger could cost so darned much!! Sad, sad, sad! :crying:

So, I'll pray for the best case and brace for the worst case. And, unfortunately, my experience is too limited to even consider DIY for much of anything...except for that '61 Comet (first car) I had for 14 years...where you could look at the motor and still see the ground, too!

Thanks again :smile: ...I'm off to the garage to chat! :frown:
Lee

ECU/ECM is your engine controlled unit/module. it's the car brains, that's why they are so pricy. you can get them used for around 800, but taking chances. we toasted ours when my son decided to have a custom subwoofer "professionally" installed. we drove the car 45 miles to some small town in TN, where his "friends" had that shop, left it there, 2 days down the road they call us and tell us that job's done but car won't start. timing belt marks, fuel, spark, all were ok, just crancks, no start. we had it scoped and found it was ECU and he had to pay extra 1200 on top of 1400 he paid for that sub/labor.
anyways, on 95 model ECU is inside the engine bay, right next to the engine on the driver side, towards radiator, large rectangular box with cooling fins. on 94, i think it was hidden behind the glove compartment, but i might be wrong, been awhile. either way, it's a large piece, about 8x 10 in size. it leaks out some sort of base. that might explain acrid smell.
as of right now, i am most positive - find someone who'll tow that car to any shop with computer scanner, they'll harness it to your car and give you the verdict. don't guess and absolutely do not replace parts on guess.
otherwise, 94 is a good vehicle. we had ours at some 240K miles when it finally dies and we sold it. we were moving out of state soon, so was no point in fixing it.
throttle position sensor is right on top of the throttle body, camshaft position sensor is right next to that plastic timing belt cover that needs that nice hump in the hood. that's on DOHC engine. real simple to replace.

Thanks for the explanation of the ECU. I think I confused the issue in my post when I mentioned the acrid smoke and other ECU malfunction issues. That was just the ECU info I'd found during my earliest searches using the symptoms I was experiencing after shifting to second in my search string.

Fortunately, my car is still functioning pretty well. But, because I'd read about the ECU, I was concerned that if it WAS the problem, all that leaking crud would kill it soon.

The repair center that has my Eclipse came highly recommended by some very picky friends. The owner/mechanic says it's the timing belt. However, I was able to confirm from the guy that sold me the car that the timing belt had been replaced 2000 miles before selling the car to me...that makes it about 3000 miles ago, total, at this point. (BTW, the seller is the one that had said something about replacing the water pump while doing the timing job because of the location...I knew someone had said it was a good idea and I just couldn't remember whom)

The reason that the mech. says it's the timing is because, when he turned the distributor as far one way as he could -- which is not much -- the car ran like it should. That being said, I do not know if he used a more "scientific" approach than that or not, and it didn't occur to me to ask. I just want him to make a good diagnosis, followed by a good repair.

Though disappointed that he hasn't started on my car yet, it's actually going to work in my favor because I can now call and ask if he used a "timing light" as you mention in your first reply and if he scanned for error codes.

I'm with you, I absolutely DO NOT want to fall victim to "replace on a guess" repairs. We'll see!!

Thanks for the additional info!!
Lee

I didnt take time to read all 15 pages of this thread, but my input is to pull codes before you get wrapped up in a costly repair such as a T-belt job. Though possible, I find jumping a tooth on a SOHC head sort of improbable. Pulling codes is easy and cheap enought, all it entails is jumpering two pins on the OBD port with a 12V light or buzzer or an analog voltmeter. For a better description of what to do pick up a Haynes manual and turn to chapter 6. :)

Broken sprocket???...well, DANG, didn't see that one comin'!!
And, a holiday to delay parts delivery...double-dang!!
Scan returned no codes.

Lee

The reason that the mech. says it's the timing is because, when he turned the distributor as far one way as he could -- which is not much -- the car ran like it should.

he forwarded ignition with distributor. means, your timing is now too retarded, which always comes at loss in power (but better mileage, he-he).
there's more scientific way to check on it - it's called strobe light, or timing light. main pully has marks on it that must align with specific range on markings on the engine ( i think there's plastic cover type thing on eclipses), and that tells you where the timing is set.
i have delt with several timing belts on eclipse, galant and chrysler, and every time i had the hardest time ever setting them right. not because it was hard to do, but because of the tensioners they came up with. on my son's 94 eclipse it took us almost a day to have them set up right, or belt kept skipping a tooth on a sprocket. so, i am not saying that you did not have belt replaced. and maybe it was done professionally and right, obviously, it was running fine when you bought the car. but .... knowing them tensioners, if somebody rushed on the job...
btw, you can remove the plastic sprockets cover, bring your 1st cylinder to TDC, and actually see those marks aligned. or not.
TDC is top dead center. pull the 1st plug out, then plug the hole with a plug made out of paper. must be fairly snug. now, start hand crancking the engine CLOCKWISE, there's a hole for a wretchet in the cranckshaft pully. i think it's 1/2'' one. cranck slowly. when you hear the plug POP out of the spark plug hole, you are somewhere really close to the 1st being in the TDC position. then just check your marks. i used to make a gauge for this - a long straight twig, then after the plug pops, lower it into the spark plug hole and wait for it to stop coming up in the hole. being pushed up by the piston. you may need to mark it 1st time, to have rough idea of the depth, and redo everything, as most likely you'll overcranck it the 1st time. after 1st pop, you need to do 2 full turns to bring it back to TDC, as 1st is there twice, once on compression and once on exhaust, and you need compression position.
then you should see 2 notches on sprocket aligned horizontally with each other and 2 side marks. straight line should run through all 4 of them.

Well, guys,
I really appreciate all the input. As mentioned in my last post, it turned out to be a broken timing sprocket (gear?)...couple of other things.

Result: Runs like a dream and...yippee...I can use the A/C again.

Hopefully, this will be it for now as far as major repairs. Guess I'll start sockin' away my spare change (or get a second job) in the "Eclipse Trust Fund" for the day that the ECU bites the dust!

Thanks again, guys!!
Lee